rattlesnake

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I was wondering wether it is easier to get license (in Canada) as an FP/GP. I am a third year medical student in the US. I want to finish FP residency in the US and then move to Canada. How hard it is for American grad who is specialist to get a license in Canada?
One reason that I am choosing FP over specialty is because I think it might be easier for me to get a license and a job in Canada. I tried to search in this forum but I did not find any answer to my specific question.
 

Mike59

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This is a very vague and tricky area.

Here's what I understand (as an Ontario resident, could be different in other provinces):

- First, you need rights to live/work in Canada so I assume you are a Canadian citizen
- Second, you need to pass the LMCC Part I. Here's where things get tricky: Unless one went to Medical School in Canada, you must repeat a year of clinical training either as an unpaid "observer" or a clerk. After passing LMCC I, you have to "compete" for the limited number of these unpaid positions against hundreds of people from other countries. If successful, you can do this year of re-training, then take the LMCC II, apply for your license, and practice.
- Third, your residency training must be "equivalent" to the Canadian training. Not only are our specialty board exams harder (which weeds out many Americans from what I've heard), most specialities here require more years of training- therefore 3 years of internal medicine in the US doesn't stack up against the 4 years we have up here, or Pediatrics being 4 years up here etc. In FP this shouldn't be a problem.

I could have the order of some of those events wrong, but that is what I recall from reading the Canadian College of Physicians website. These rules should be the same whether you are a specialist or fp.
 

moo

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If you are a US grad, you should be equivalent to Canadian grads in Ontario, AB, BC, and Qc. Thus you can match into the first round. Easiest way to do this is to match into an FP program in Canada (many unfilled positions after first round. And remember you are EQUIVALENT to Canadian grads in those provinces so you can match in the first round, thus you are at a significant advantage as compared to applicants from other countries, like UK, Aus, Ireland).
 

hilariosee

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rattlesnake said:
I was wondering wether it is easier to get license (in Canada) as an FP/GP. I am a third year medical student in the US. I want to finish FP residency in the US and then move to Canada. How hard it is for American grad who is specialist to get a license in Canada?
One reason that I am choosing FP over specialty is because I think it might be easier for me to get a license and a job in Canada. I tried to search in this forum but I did not find any answer to my specific question.
hello rattlesnake,
I can only speak for family practice but it is not hard. What you need is to get your abfp designation. canadian college of family physician will recognise your residency and will allow you to sit for the exam. Once you pass that and the LMCC part I and II, you are eligible in ontario. In other provinces, you may not need the canadian exams to be elibible for licensure. hope this helps
 

Mike59

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hilariosee said:
hello rattlesnake,
I can only speak for family practice but it is not hard. What you need is to get your abfp designation. canadian college of family physician will recognise your residency and will allow you to sit for the exam. Once you pass that and the LMCC part I and II, you are eligible in ontario. In other provinces, you may not need the canadian exams to be elibible for licensure. hope this helps
Hilariosee,

Even though abfp status is considered "equivalent", this is apart from the MCC's requirement of at least 1 year clerkship in Canada is it not? Are family docs exempt from this rule?
 

hilariosee

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Mike59 said:
Hilariosee,

Even though abfp status is considered "equivalent", this is apart from the MCC's requirement of at least 1 year clerkship in Canada is it not? Are family docs exempt from this rule?
Hi Mike59

As long as your medical school is recognise be CFPC (almost most north american schools are) then you do not have to do a more year of clerkship. At least I did not.
 

f_w

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Forget about Ontario ! Their medical board does everything in their power limit the influx of foreign physicians.

The best example is the 'registration by assessment' program introduced with big fanfare two years ago. The ministry of health was telling everyone that they wan't to get away from the exam based assessment of IMG's more toward an experience based approach. After the CPSO was done with the program and introduced their 'implementation rules' it became clear that THEY didn't want the program in the first place. You have to proove 5 years of experience AFTER a residency in a country that has a similar national accreditation system to canada. Then they have an elaborate multi-tiered asssessment process designed to frustrate anyone interested in the program.

Look at BC, AB and SK. They have rules far less insane (still a bit insane, but as I said, less.)
 
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rattlesnake

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Thank you guy for the info. I am not a canadian citizen. So I am going to do my FP residency in the US, and then I want to immigrate to Canada as a skilled worker. I don't care about Ontario, I will go to anywhere they accept my residency. I dont think I have to take MCCQE because I will be an American grad, I cut and paste this from the medical council of Canada website,

Because of a joint accreditation mechanism of medical schools in Canada and the United States, graduates of an American medical school that has been accredited by the U.S. Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) are exempt from the requirement to take the MCCEE. Graduates from U.S. Schools of Osteopathic Medicine accredited by the American Osteopathic Association are not exempt from writing the MCCEE. The ABMS exemption (see previous paragraph) does not apply to Doctors of Osteopathy.

this is the websit (http://www.mcc.ca/english/publications/pamphlets.html) and then click on (Evaluating Examination 2005)
 

f_w

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If you are a graduate of a US medical school you are exempt from the LMCC thing. If you come from a third country do a residency in the US and then move north you are NOT exempt.
addendum:
actually, I might be wrong here, this was a post I wrote at some ungodly hour. Other than in the US, the canadian medical credentialing system doesn't know the words 'never' and 'allways'. The rules are maintained to be as complex as possible, that way you can keep a lot of people on the edge for a long time. I looked at moving north a while ago. In some provinces having passed the RCPSC exams will suffice if you are a US medical graduate, in others nothing will suffice (e.g. ON).
 

firetown

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rattlesnake said:
Thank you guy for the info. I am not a canadian citizen. So I am going to do my FP residency in the US, and then I want to immigrate to Canada as a skilled worker. I don't care about Ontario, I will go to anywhere they accept my residency. I dont think I have to take MCCQE because I will be an American grad, I cut and paste this from the medical council of Canada website,

Because of a joint accreditation mechanism of medical schools in Canada and the United States, graduates of an American medical school that has been accredited by the U.S. Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) are exempt from the requirement to take the MCCEE. Graduates from U.S. Schools of Osteopathic Medicine accredited by the American Osteopathic Association are not exempt from writing the MCCEE. The ABMS exemption (see previous paragraph) does not apply to Doctors of Osteopathy.

this is the websit (http://www.mcc.ca/english/publications/pamphlets.html) and then click on (Evaluating Examination 2005)
Sorry rattlesnake, you are mistaken. Please read the condition again. The MCCEE is the Canadian Evaluating exam which you will be exempt. The MCCQE is required for all people in Canada. Canadian medical students have to write and pass the 2 steps in the MCCQE before they become licensed to practice in Canada. The evaluating exam (MCCEE) is required only of IMG's i.e those not trained in Canada and the US. You will have to write 2 steps in the MCCQE if you want to practice in canada. :thumbup:
 

hilariosee

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i'm pretty sure that all the provinces require you to write LMCC part I and II as a minimum to get a license. I had to write LMCC part I and II and all canadian grads have to write the LMCC.
 
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rattlesnake

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thanks firetown for clarification. I just recently became interested in practicing in canada, so I didn't know the difference between MCCQE and MCCEE. Looks like I have to take MCCQE.
 
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rattlesnake

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I appreciate everybody responding, I have another question.
Is it easier to get a license and a job if you are family physician compare to if you are an internist.
I am attending med school in US. I am pretty sure that I want to go to canada (I am not canadian citizen. I want to immigrate on skilled worker visa)
Even though I slightly like internal medicine better than FP, I am thinking about applying to FP residency because I think it will be easier to get licensed in Canada with FP background.
So anyone knows how difficult is for an US grad internist to get a license and a job in Canada.
Should I go with FP or Internal medicine ?(I know that I have to do a one year fellowship if I go to internal medicine, that 's ok)
On a scale of 1-10 (ten means like it the most) I will give internal medicine 9 and FP 7.
Thanks alot guys.
 

f_w

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I don't know the situation for 'real' jobs in CA, the limited, skewed view I have, are the 'underserved' jobs. And there FP jobs are bountyful.

If you manage to become eligible to write the RCPSC exams for IM, you shouldn't have a problem to become licensed. Have you reviewed their requirements yet ? You can look them up on the RCPSC website. If you know what to look for, you can try to taylor your IM residency/fellowship accordingly (maybe do a year as chief resident, do electives that give you things you need for RCPSC etc.)

But why are you planning to go north in the first place ?

-- I know a couple of people who are concerned that the US ist turning into a classic third world military dictatorship. An accountant friend when asked as to what the best long-term investment would be answered: 'A condo in Vancouver'.
-- Less commercialized medical practice ?
-- Don't have the lawyers breathing down your neck.

I suspect that after a bit more exposure to the benefits of US medicine, you will re-think your plans (there is a reason why canadian docs are moving south in steady numbers).
 

Santiago

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rattlesnake said:
I was wondering wether it is easier to get license (in Canada) as an FP/GP. I am a third year medical student in the US. I want to finish FP residency in the US and then move to Canada. How hard it is for American grad who is specialist to get a license in Canada?
One reason that I am choosing FP over specialty is because I think it might be easier for me to get a license and a job in Canada. I tried to search in this forum but I did not find any answer to my specific question.
Try SK, I have heard on plenty of guys who take up a job there after residency in US and then make a move..the paperwork and legality is the easiest there among all the canadian states.
 
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rattlesnake

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thanks guys. I still have time to decide but I think I am going to choose FP.
Right now I am still thinking about moving to Canada, but things can change in the next 3-4 years.