is it just me or are there too many pre-meds?

[duckhunter25]

At your school does it seem like everyone you meet is pre-med? I can't figure out how and why there are so many people who think they want to go to med school. The worst ones are the people who sit in lecture and ask the most ******ed questions because they have no clue and yet they think they're going to be a doctor . I don't know whats worst that or the cheaters who always do their work and online tests in groups to pad their grade. I really hate it when you know some of them and you know they'd be an awful doctor but you can't help but think what if they get into med school and I don't.

The point of this whole thing is what percent of people who apply to med school actually get in? not to a specific school but just in general? And when do people realize they either won't get in or are not fit for the job?

Sorry for the rant

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[tulane06]

Don't worry, most of them will become business majors by the time they take Orgo.

 

[Hurricane95]

I'm not going to rattle off numbers or statistics I'm not sure of, but trust me, a LOT of pre-meds won't make it for one reason or another. Sometimes it's a shame because the person rejected is really a good candidate but perhaps just a poor test-taker, for some other people it's a good thing theyre not getting in, because I wouldnt want them to be MY doctor, thats for sure.

 

[jbrice1639]

The worst ones are the people who sit in lecture and ask the most ******ed questions because they have no clue and yet they think they're going to be a doctor .

honestly, the worst ones are the jackasses who sit in class and try to act like they're already doctors and actually think they know something about medicine because they read an article in newsweek...those are the ones that are gonna be the horrible doctors...

 

[Law2Doc]

At your school does it seem like everyone you meet is pre-med? I can't figure out how and why there are so many people who think they want to go to med school. The worst ones are the people who sit in lecture and ask the most ******ed questions because they have no clue and yet they think they're going to be a doctor . I don't know whats worst that or the cheaters who always do their work and online tests in groups to pad their grade. I really hate it when you know some of them and you know they'd be an awful doctor but you can't help but think what if they get into med school and I don't.

The point of this whole thing is what percent of people who apply to med school actually get in? not to a specific school but just in general? And when do people realize they either won't get in or are not fit for the job?

Sorry for the rant

As other posters have said, only a small fraction of those who start out as premed end up sitting for the MCAT and applying. But in defense of the folks who ask stupid questions, I note that come LOR time, at least the professor knows who they are. They may seem stupid, but they are actually playing the game the right way. I bet they go to every office hour too. That's just smart. Annoying, sure, but you have to admire it. They will make good gunners in med school.
Cheating by contrast, is not playing the game (it is cheating at the game). It is also a low percentage fools' play -- they run a big risk (they are putting their whole future in jeopardy for relatively little benefit), and at some point (eg. MCAT time) they need to stand on their own two feet and perform, which is not easy if they didn't master the material. Clearly the cheaters are worse.

 

[badlydrawnvik]

my friends and i have nicknamed a lot of the know-it-alls and incessant question askers in our classes over the years. it gets to be fun, try it. the best is when professors call them out.

 

[Law2Doc]

my friends and i have nicknamed a lot of the know-it-alls and incessant question askers in our classes over the years. it gets to be fun, try it. the best is when professors call them out.

In law school, we made up bingo cards with their names on it and played during class. You got to check off a box every time one spoke.

 

[geekOCD]

In law school, we made up bingo cards with their names on it and played during class. You got to check off a box every time one spoke.

dingus bingo is awesome. I definitely want to play it in med school. Also, the best part is that if you make a bingo (have a row on your card in any direction) you have to announce it in class. Like pretend to ask a question of the prof and say "man, you're right, I thought this was so confusing but then I was like 'bingo!' and it just made sense!" So everyone else playing the game in the class knows you won for the week.

 

[Law2Doc]

dingus bingo is awesome. I definitely want to play it in med school. Also, the best part is that if you make a bingo (have a row on your card in any direction) you have to announce it in class. Like pretend to ask a question of the prof and say "man, you're right, I thought this was so confusing but then I was like 'bingo!' and it just made sense!" So everyone else playing the game in the class knows you won for the week.

I don't think it works in med school as well as law school or undergrad -- not enough open participation lectures, and a lot of the players tend to skip class and study from home. But you can try.

 

[potato51]

In law school, we made up bingo cards with their names on it and played during class. You got to check off a box every time one spoke.

this is HILARIOUS. thanks for the idea

 

[jbone]

Don't worry, most of them will become business majors by the time they take Orgo.

Oh yea, Organic chemistry. The ultimate "screening" class.

 

[silas2642]

I hate pre-meds. Sorry if I offend anyone, but generally speaking I find pre-meds to be an arrogant bunch of dinguses who have absolutely no idea what they're getting into and just want to wear the white coat. Jerks.

 

[odrade1]

The point of this whole thing is what percent of people who apply to med school actually get in? not to a specific school but just in general? And when do people realize they either won't get in or are not fit for the job?

Sorry for the rant

Everywhere I go, people tell me they want to be a doctor. This is especially true since I tend to work with freshmen and sophomores, most of whom have not yet figured out that they do not have the wherewithall to make it to med school.

The pre-health advisor at my school advises >800 freshman (out of ~3500 freshmen). She advises about 400 sophomores, and about 150 of those actually apply. The other 650 who started out wanting to be doctors either changed their minds because it was what someone else wanted for them, or they were culled from the herd due to their lack of intellectual ability or personal instability.

Nationally, about 30K applicants apply for 17K spots. If most state schools are like mine (and I'm thinking that they probably are not too dissimilar), that entails an estimate of 30000 x (650/150) = 130000 college freshmen each year who want to be doctors but won't even make it to the application process.

Since only about half of applicants get in, the probability of any given med-school aspiring freshman getting in is 17000/(130000 + 17000) = 0.12

This is why you are justified in laughing at someone's face if that person is a freshman and he/she tells you that they are going to be a doctor.

 

[gogo110182]

Everywhere I go, people tell me they want to be a doctor. This is especially true since I tend to work with freshmen and sophomores, most of whom have not yet figured out that they do not have the wherewithall to make it to med school.

The pre-health advisor at my school advises >800 freshman (out of ~3500 freshmen). She advises about 400 sophomores, and about 150 of those actually apply. The other 650 who started out wanting to be doctors either changed their minds because it was what someone else wanted for them, or they were culled from the herd due to their lack of intellectual ability or personal instability.

Nationally, about 30K applicants apply for 17K spots. If most state schools are like mine (and I'm thinking that they probably are not too dissimilar), that entails an estimate of 30000 x (650/150) = 130000 college freshmen each year who want to be doctors but won't even make it to the application process.

Since only about half of applicants get in, the probability of any given med-school aspiring freshman getting in is 17000/(130000 + 17000) = 0.12

This is why you are justified in laughing at someone's face if that person is a freshman and he/she tells you that they are going to be a doctor.

 

[DrBowtie]

The people who have no idea yet think they will get in are dubbed "space cadets." They have their heads in the clouds.

And of course you have to bring up the old "Look to your right, look to your left, and one of you will be a doctor."

 

[Thanatos]

At your school does it seem like everyone you meet is pre-med? I can't figure out how and why there are so many people who think they want to go to med school. The worst ones are the people who sit in lecture and ask the most ******ed questions because they have no clue and yet they think they're going to be a doctor . I don't know whats worst that or the cheaters who always do their work and online tests in groups to pad their grade. I really hate it when you know some of them and you know they'd be an awful doctor but you can't help but think what if they get into med school and I don't.

The point of this whole thing is what percent of people who apply to med school actually get in? not to a specific school but just in general? And when do people realize they either won't get in or are not fit for the job?

Sorry for the rant

I put as much distance as possible between myself and any pre-med clubs/organizations/advisors as an undergraduate to avoid higher than normal blood pressure.

As for stats, I remember reading on the Kaplan site a few years ago that around 75% of "pre-meds" never actually make it all the way to applying for medical school.....of those who apply about half get accepted each year.

It is amusing though, I remember as a freshman everyone around me was saying things like "when i'm a doctor....." By the end of that same year all I heard from ppl was "I could go the medicine route, but I feel my skills would be better utilized as an elementary school teacher."

 

[^=^]

Just like my man Darwin used to say, "Survival of the fittest"

Don't worry though, like Tulane said, orgo will weed a lot of them out

 

[Jon Davis]

At your school does it seem like everyone you meet is pre-med? I can't figure out how and why there are so many people who think they want to go to med school. The worst ones are the people who sit in lecture and ask the most ******ed questions because they have no clue and yet they think they're going to be a doctor . I don't know whats worst that or the cheaters who always do their work and online tests in groups to pad their grade. I really hate it when you know some of them and you know they'd be an awful doctor but you can't help but think what if they get into med school and I don't.

The point of this whole thing is what percent of people who apply to med school actually get in? not to a specific school but just in general? And when do people realize they either won't get in or are not fit for the job?

Sorry for the rant

This is precisely why I refuse to acknowledge I was a pre-med. Too many sharks and too much drama. Just tell them you're gonna be something else. So much politics and bullcrap are played. However, medicine is replete with politics. It seems theres more of the same. Is this true? If it is, I'm gonna go crazy.

 

[duckhunter25]

yea I heard that organic would weed people out. The only problem at my school was that our teacher gave ridiculous extra credit. I had a 98% before the extra credit so I earned my A, but the only problem was the professor has been on probation because his classes have been getting such low grades he gave so much extra credit it worked out to be a little more than 15% of the grade after all the exams and assignments
So like half the class ended with an A and even the professor admitted that people who had gotten C's on every exam, 4 of them, could end up with an A So much for working hard to actually earn your grade

and the people asking questions, they're beyond stupid. He will go over one thing for 10 minutes and they will raise their hand and ask a question that was just explained. Actually it's not them, it's him. One guy, and he did it in gen chem too.

 

[Pretty POHA]

I WISH there were more pre-meds at my undergrad! I've met ONE.
I'm dying for a really good study buddy who A) actually takes the time to study and study right and B) is someone I can get along with and study with.

I've found that while my non-pre-med friends are very fun, I wouldn't study with them because they don't take their grades seriously.

I think that it's silly to talk smack about the people who ask dumb questions. As least they're asking instead of not caring, not showing up to class, and not participating when they're confused. Give them some credit-- at least they're awake.
**this doesn't go for the people who show up late, sleep and then wake up, or generally don't pay attention and then ask a question that's already been asked or gone over...***

 

[gujuDoc]

Don't worry, most of them will become business majors by the time they take Orgo.

How true. Except the only difference I'd say is that it is sometimes before ochem even arises.

I know a lot of people change their major right after the first semester gen chem. Another lot will change their major or focus after the harder prereqs. Yet, others change after the MCAT. And then there are those who get the degree in bio or whatever their major is and then graduate and realize they don't want to apply to med school and decide on grad school.

There's an old saying, look to your left and look to your right, because at least one of you will not be here tomorrow. If you look at the number of premeds in your freshmen classes and see how many students stuck it out all through the end of college, and went on to med school, you'd see that that old saying held true because the good majority of the people are removed from the medicine circle and go into business, research, other health programs such as dental or pharmacy or nursing or physicians assistant. yet, others change to engineering majors or something more artsy or teaching, etc.

Many that I know, who dropped premed, went into public health instead.

 

[21JumpStreet]

Asher, I've met many, many non-premeds that took their education seriously. Because your non-pre-med friends were that way, it doesn't mean that all non-pre-meds care less about their work. Before going to graduate school and med school, I was a criminal justice major with no pre-meds in my program. Within the criminal justice program I've met many many students that were anal, bright and cared about their grades. Some eventually joined the FBI, went to grad school, etc.

The pre-med req's aren't bad at all. They are very very basic in comparison to what you would do in a grad level science program.

 

[21JumpStreet]

How true. Except the only difference I'd say is that it is sometimes before ochem even arises.

I know a lot of people change their major right after the first semester gen chem. Another lot will change their major or focus after the harder prereqs. Yet, others change after the MCAT. And then there are those who get the degree in bio or whatever their major is and then graduate and realize they don't want to apply to med school and decide on grad school.

There's an old saying, look to your left and look to your right, because at least one of you will not be here tomorrow. If you look at the number of premeds in your freshmen classes and see how many students stuck it out all through the end of college, and went on to med school, you'd see that that old saying held true because the good majority of the people are removed from the medicine circle and go into business, research, other health programs such as dental or pharmacy or nursing or physicians assistant. yet, others change to engineering majors or something more artsy or teaching, etc.

Many that I know, who dropped premed, went into public health instead.

Engineering is much more difficult. There are med students who can't do the math to get into an ugrad engineering program. In fact, one individual went in to medicine after wanting to do an engineering program. No matter how many tutors she had, the math was just too difficult for her. Medicine was her second choice.

 

[DrBowtie]

Engineering is much more difficult. There are med students who can't do the math to get into an ugrad engineering program. In fact, one individual went in to medicine after wanting to do an engineering program. No matter how many tutors she had, the math was just too difficult for her. Medicine was her second choice.

True. I think the attrition rates are probably similar.

 

[p00psicleSTICK]

WHOOPS posted twice.

 

[p00psicleSTICK]

FYI, engineering pre-meds usually kick science pre-meds' butts. Smartest pre-meds I've met were all engineers - chemE, mechE, etc. Don't call me biased either because I'm a bio major.

 

[Em1]

Very true about engineering. I went to a HUGE engineering school (not one myself though) and I know of a lot of people that started of in engineering and ended up in management...

 

[gujuDoc]

Engineering is much more difficult. There are med students who can't do the math to get into an ugrad engineering program. In fact, one individual went in to medicine after wanting to do an engineering program. No matter how many tutors she had, the math was just too difficult for her. Medicine was her second choice.

Not denying this point or saying that people would switch just because of the difficulty of course work. Try not to misinterpret what I'm saying.

Actually, someone brought up a good point about non premed friends working just as hard.

I know several students with high high high GPAs who may have been engineering but premed or bio majors but premed but decided they didn't want to go through med school for personal choice of not wanting to spend 8-11 more years training. These people chose were the ones who chose to take on other opportunities. While I know others who dropped because of a bad course, many changed for other reasons too. Those are the ones I was referring to when i mentioned engineering.

 

[gujuDoc]

FYI, engineering pre-meds usually kick science pre-meds' butts. Smartest pre-meds I've met were all engineers - chemE, mechE, etc. Don't call me biased either because I'm a bio major.

I wasn't denying that in my origina post. Actually, I acknowledge and agree with this situation. Howev er, not everyone changes from premed because of the challenge. For instance, some of the engineering premed majors who might decide not to do it in the end, don't do it not because of numbers so much as the fact that they just decided they'd rather keep their job as an engineer.

 

[p00psicleSTICK]

Yea engineers get paid 50k~ish/year even with just a college degree. You should never go into medicine thinking how it sounds like a death sentence to go to school and get trained for 4+ years.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

At your school does it seem like everyone you meet is pre-med? I can't figure out how and why there are so many people who think they want to go to med school. The worst ones are the people who sit in lecture and ask the most ******ed questions because they have no clue and yet they think they're going to be a doctor . I don't know whats worst that or the cheaters who always do their work and online tests in groups to pad their grade. I really hate it when you know some of them and you know they'd be an awful doctor but you can't help but think what if they get into med school and I don't.

The point of this whole thing is what percent of people who apply to med school actually get in? not to a specific school but just in general? And when do people realize they either won't get in or are not fit for the job?

Sorry for the rant

food for thought:

stastically, only about 1 out of 4 people who sit for the MCAT actually get into med school. of course, only about half apply!!!! Shows you what that test will do to some people's take on reality.

 

[Dr Trek 1]

I'm glad a thread was made devoted to this topic.

My undergrad. is known as a premed "breeding ground." I too refused to ever tell anyone I was premed because I didn't want to automatically be labeled and stereotyped. Fortunately, I was a psych. major and didn't have to spend TOO much time around all of them.

Actually pre-meds helped me to form my theory of "quack motivation" that has gotten me very far in my psych. research. Basically, it's a theory about people (many pre-meds, certainly not all) pursuing medicine simply because they fear failure in life and think that medicine will somehow preclude them from such failure. There is a personality type that is more prone to such quack motivaton, but I would rather not face the consequences of posting that information on SDN- PM me if you would like it.

And as an above poster said, I love all the people who wanted to be doctors when they started college and then by the end said "I could be a doctor but I decided my skills could be better used as a...." or "I could be a doctor I just can't deal with all that blood and sick people." Talk about reducing cognitive dissonance...

 

[gujuDoc]

Yea engineers get paid 50k~ish/year even with just a college degree. You should never go into medicine thinking how it sounds like a death sentence to go to school and get trained for 4+ years.

Huh?? I'm confused whether you are saying the pay of an engineer is a bad thing or a good thing. Can you please clear up what you are trying to say??

 

[Em1]

Engineers make a lot straight out of undergrad compared to other majors. I thought the average for them was around 60K though.

 

[PittMedicine]

What the heck? OCHEM is not a screening class!

You guys said it yourselves. It doesn't matter if you get a B or even a C for that matter!

What the heck?

 

[tulane06]

It's a screening class in the sense that a lot of people drop it.

 

[gujuDoc]

Engineers make a lot straight out of undergrad compared to other majors. I thought the average for them was around 60K though.

Depends on the branch of engineering you are in. Civil engineers generally start with anywhere from 35k-50k or so. My brother has a chemE degree but ended up getting a civil engineering job and his first job was 35k. Shortly after that he found another job that paid him 45k, but he didn't like it. So he changed jobs again and is now making 55k at his current firm, this is within the span of the last about 4 or 5 years that he has gotten such a good salary.

If he had more experience coming out of college and had gotten a chemE job, he could have been making well into the 70k+ category of pay. Biomedical engineers also earn a lot more money on average.

So again, much like with subspecialties in medicine, different fields of engineering also have different starting salaries and average pay. Also, one final point is that if you are in a higher position such as the one who is writing and presenting for the actual proposals, then you get significantly higher pay too. Again, similar to any other job in terms of the fact that it depends on years of experience, position, and which field you are in.

 

[Dr.Pdizzle]

I always am peeved when the first thing someone tells me about themselves is that they're "pre-med" or are studying to become a doctor. It seems like the people that tell me they're pre-med often do it for the shock effect. "Oh, your pre-med, you must be really smart and disciplined...."

And for those that are wondering, yes I get this a lot. I'm an RA and it's mindblowing when trying to get to know someone the first and seemingly most important thing about them is that they're pre-med and want to be a doctor one day. That's nice, but what do you do for fun? You do have a life other than pre-medicine correct?

 

[Med-tallica]

I ran scared from engineering, planned on biomedical engineering until i realized I was absolutely horrid at math. Whats that calculus joke about engineering, something like: gpa as degree approaches engineering = business major, something like that, i'm horrible at math so i probably killed the joke too... how sad.

 

[jbone]

It's a screening class in the sense that a lot of people drop it.

Very true. My O-chem I class started with 96 people. In the end, only about 1/3 of those passed the class. Good weeding class (if it was difficult like mine was). Almost killed me off too, but I survived.

 

[gujuDoc]

Very true. My O-chem I class started with 96 people. In the end, only about 1/3 of those passed the class. Good weeding class (if it was difficult like mine was). Almost killed me off too, but I survived.

Yeah I think most ochem classes at all universities are seen as a weeding out class. My ochem one professor even uses a bell curve where only the top 10 percent of the class can get an A, the next 20 percent get a B, and then 40 percent get a C, and then the next 20 percent get a D, and the bottom 10 percent fail. No matter what, that is always the score distribution because he doesn't use a set grading scale. his scale is the curve.

A lot of teachers make it a weed out course.

but for that matter, almost all the basic prereqs are weed out courses.

 

[gary5]

There are a ton of premeds. Of those that make it far enough to apply, 50% are accepted, 50% rejected. That's a lot of rejections.

 

[jbone]

There are a ton of premeds. Of those that make it far enough to apply, 50% are accepted, 50% rejected. That's a lot of rejections.

Yea, like 1/2 ton.

 

[veridisquo]

It's a screening class in the sense that a lot of people drop it.

Agreed. Even though there was what I considered a generous curve in my first semester organic class, many dropped before the end of the semester, many of whom would have probably ended up with at least a C.

I can actually think of a handful of people who are great students, but the only reason they're not premed is because they don't even want to have to take Organic. They've heard how 'bad' it is and assumed they can't do it.

 

[Pewl]

How much true ochem do we use in med school anyway? I'll admit that I don't remember a thing about ochem, now, after grad school. My head is now filled with nuclear physics and radiation dosimetry. =P

 

[gary5]

Yea, like 1/2 ton.

LOL!

 

[DoctorPardi]

I run in to people all the time at my college talking about being pre-med and they have no idea about half the stuff they should to get into medical school. Half the time they don't know what the MCAT is or aren't worried about making straight C's in all their sciences so far.

 

[duckhunter25]

biggest thing i've learned from this thread is to never tell people you're pre-med. now i've got to get the nurse i volunteer with to stop telling everybody I am a pre-med major

 

[femily]

not to get back on the engineering kick...but something i've noticed personally. i'm a chemical engineering major and i got into med school (yay!) recently. whenever people asked me what my major was, etc., if i said "chemical engineering" the person would be like "WOW. you must be really smart! that's so hard! (insert other grovel-y type phrases)". if i said "pre-med chemical engineering" i would get really strange looks and people would be like "why are you wasting your time, etc". i would say that i was taking the scenic route or something. and if i just said "pre-med" people would be "oh". that's it.

i guess my point is that while you're in undergrad, there's no respect for straight pre-med people, but if you're engineering people bow down at your feet. just food for thought.

 

[odrade1]

I run in to people all the time at my college talking about being pre-med and they have no idea about half the stuff they should to get into medical school. Half the time they don't know what the MCAT is or aren't worried about making straight C's in all their sciences so far.

This is so true. I met a science major last year who had a C- going into the final her second time taking bio 2. She told me that she just hated science, so I asked her why she was taking this course. She looked at me with a straight face and said, "I'm going to be a surgeon." Since I have 8 years experience waiting tables, I was able to control myself, and refrained from my urges toward hysterical laughter, spitting in her face, and slapping her.