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Is it Medical School or Podiatry School/School of Podiatric Medicine

Discussion in 'Podiatry Students' started by cool_vkb, May 16, 2008.

  1. cool_vkb

    cool_vkb Member
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    A lot of people in their profiles (myspace, facebook, orkut) or emails or correspondance use the term "MEDICAL SCHOOL" (without any reference to Podiatry School). Even though that is 100% true that we attend allopathic school and have full right to say we go to Medical School. But isnt it kind misleading to general public (especially when we post on public sites) when we say we are going to Medical School or done with 1st year of Medical School.

    I feel by just using "medical school" we are losing our own identity as Podiatric medical student. A MD first yr who is on my facebook list was kind of irritated when he saw some Pods posting they go to Medical school without even one mention of Podiatric medicine. I mean if someone says they attend Medical School and pursuing podiatry it still make sense but just using "I attend Medical school". how fair is this and acceptable to our MD friends and to general public. yeah general public is not well versed with our degree. but shudnt we be educating them rather than saying we go to Medical school.

    Our schools are named "xyz.. school of Podiatric medcine" or "College of Podiatry". So why should we just say "medical school".

    Especially now that we are done with 1st year. What do other fellow pod students and residents think abt this topic.I personally never ever use "Medical school" when i describe my career interests. I am proud of what i do and make sure the people around me know what iam doing. I am a Podiatry Student who just finished 1st yr of Podiatric School not a med student who finished 1st year of medical school (just compare these two statemnts).

    PS: I'am not discussing the logic of Allopathic medicine here. my stress is "Are we indirectly misleading public by just saying Medical school and not even mentioning one slight hint of Podiatry"?
     
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  3. spo01

    spo01 Member
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    I had the same concerns. When I went on my interview at Barry *everyone* there including staff and students said 'medical school'. It kind of bugged me because I saw it as "podiatry school', but my view is slowly changing...

    First of all, using "medical school" goes along with the goals of Vision 2015. Second, a lot of the general public don't know what podiatry is and think it is some 2 year education you get at a trade school. But podiatry has changed so much I think it is earning the right to be called medical school: 4 yrs undergrad, 4 yrs medical/podiatry school, 3 yrs residency, optional fellowships. BUT here's the problem, I am not sure about independent schools because those are not integrated with 'medical schools' like DMU and Arizona are. But we can't have the latter say "medical school" while others say 'podiatry school'. I don't care if the education is exactly the same at other pod schools and what not, if we have stand alone independent podiatry schools then the 'medical school' title loses its merit because the education WILL still be questioned by others, however, if you are actually integrated with DO students noone can then question the education. I am not putting down other pod schools, but to my knowledge podiatry is trying to be recognized at the same level of MD/DO but it is going to be difficult if there are still seperate independent podiatry schools.

    I recently asked a pod who graduated DMU and now has his own successful practice this exact same question and this is what he said: "When I talk with other podiatrists, they will say things like, so where did you go to podiatry school (as opposed to college), but when I talk with other doctors, I just use it generally as medical school. Most docs don't know about podiatry - it is all about education. If you keep saying podiatry school to other docs, they tend to think it is more like a trade school and not medical school!"

    I do see where you are coming from though with "no mention of podiatric medicine", I personally always mention 'podiatry'. It's an interesting subject because how often do you hear D.O. students mention 'osteopathic' medicine or 'osteopathic medical school.' RARELY. They're not ashamed of 'osteopathic medicine' just like we aren't ashamed of 'podiatric medicine', but it's a prestigious term to say 'medical school' and there's nothing wrong with trying to feel a sense of prestige *if* you rightfully earn it, and this is where the debate is at, and I think the education AND the 3 yr residency of podiatrists bring up strong reasons to allow it. Now how about "podiatrist" vs "podiatric surgeon"? Australia actually has a distinction between the two and are classified as 2 seperate titles with different educations. Is someone trying to sound fancy using the word 'surgeon'? Yeah probably, but who cares? They've earned it haven't they? Just like I don't knock my friends who put "MD" in there buddy profiles, you earned it buddy. Just so long as you don't become obsessed with the titles and initials!
     
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  4. SubRosa

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    Well said man. You make excellent points, even bringing up the Australian education.
     
  5. cool_vkb

    cool_vkb Member
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    In Australia :

    Podiatrist = BSc Podiatry
    Podiatric Surgeon = BSc Podiatry + 4-7 yrs of further Post graduate education

    Its not abt sounding fancy there, there is a big difference between Podiatrist & Podiatric Surgeon there. If a Podiatric Surgeon advertise as Podiatrist there no one would automatically assume he can perform surgery. So to make sure people know they are eligible for Surgery they advertise as Podiatric surgeons. They have to use two seperae titles there. Its kind of mandatory and helpfull to general population.
     
  6. tea_tu

    tea_tu Tea
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    Podiatric medical school if you want to be technical. It's still medical school.

    Small beans.
     
  7. cool_vkb

    cool_vkb Member
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    I totally agree with logic of Allopathic school and our standards in education but my main concern is just with dealing with general public.

    There is prestige in the word "Medical School". But in the eye of general public & education system we do not attend Medical School. Plus the distinctions are clearly evident from admission standards to predetermined specialization. We cannot just pick up a term coz it sounds prestigious. So does the term "Podiatry School" sounds humilating in comparision to Medical school? What does technical or non technical has to do here.

    Dental students dont get ashamed to proudly say they attend dental school (even they can say MEDICAL SCHOOL) or Optometric students never hesitate they attend Optometric school (now by education that is also medical school) , even Physician assistant school is also Medical school if we go by that logic.

    What gives some pod studnets the right to mislead general public by using the term "Medical school" without even one word of Podiatry. when we know that due to lack of public awareness the public is going to assume we are going to be MDs and we all know we are DPMs. Its clear cut misleading people. I believe we should be like Dentists. Proud of our profession, proud of where we get educated aka Podiatry School. Even Schools like DMU, Scholl, AZPOD never describe themselves as Medical School even their classes are shared by MD students.
     
  8. krabmas

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    I always say podiatry school. Never podiatric medical school or medical school.

    I once had a pod resident say something to me about where they went to "medical school" and I got really confused.

    We go to Podiatry School. Say "podiatric medical school" if you want but by the time you finish those 3 words you've already lost the attention of the listener.

    I agree that it is misleading to the public. If you talk to the general public involved in health care most of them know that we do not go to MD or DO school. If you talk to the real general public most of them have no idea just like most of us did not know it was separate until researching our medical careers options.

    I also think that if we keep saying medical school it looks like we are ashamed of going to podiatry school.

    We get a medical education at our podiatry schools but it is still podiatry school.
     
  9. cool_vkb

    cool_vkb Member
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    :thumbup:
     
  10. captaindargo

    captaindargo Member
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    Well said. I too always say podiatry school. I think saying that I go to medical school would mean I'm ashamed of going to pod school and I'm not.
     
  11. spo01

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    I agree for the most part which is why I'm as confused as you. Personally I am yet to say 'medical school' and still say 'podiatry school' and have no problems saying that. But like I said in my former post, there are reasons why the former would be more appropriate and even the podiatry school I went to everyone said medical school which confused me, we need to be on the same level here. But I prefer "Podiatry School".

    Admission standards hold no weight. I've said it before and I'll say it again: any idiot can get into medical school (MD/DO), it is graduating that is the hard part. Think about it, you have American Allopathic schools, Osteopathic schools, then Foreign Medical schools. It may not be your top choice but you're bound to get into one (speaking mainly for the last one). It is the same reason why I don't see how one could ever view podiatry (or any field in general) as a 'back up' because of this fact. Another thing, if DO wants to maintain its uniqueness (a word which is thrown around a lot just like podiatry wants to maintain it's uniqueness) why don't you ever hear students say 'Osteopathic Medical School'? I believe part of the fact is because they want people to know they're education is very similar and just as rigorous as Allopathic schools, and I think Podiatry is in the same boat.

    Dentistry, Optometry, etc aren't the same. I don't doubt they are rigorous that is not my point, but Podiatry mirrors the Allopathic route/education much more closely than those (including the 3 year residency). Taking 'some' classes with MD students does NOT make something a 'medical school'. That's why PA, NP, Optometry, etc can't say that. But have you seen the Arizona curriculum? How can one not see that as medical school? So the 3rd and 4th yr rotations differ in a few areas, but still.

    My question then especially for those experienced students, what are the goals of podiatry? What is up with Vision 2015 and mirroring curriculums such as DMU and Arizona? Western University is opening up and it does not mirror these. When I called they said they were NOT integrated with the DO students then a different person said 'a few' classes, which again means nothing. You take your basic sciences with the dental and optometry students, which is fine, but it's not fine if the field is trying to be looked at the MD/DO level.
     
  12. heeltoe

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    I chose podiatry over MD, so I am not ashmed of attending a pod school. When i first got in and people asked me what school i got to i said pod school, and no one had a clue what school that was, what it required to get in (which is not much for some i know) and what was involved with my education. I got tired of standing around for 5 minutes at every turn trying to explain to everyday people about my schooling choice. I have now started saying med school. I honestly dont think there is anything wrong with that either. I wrote mcat, i take medical classes, and learn about all aspects of the human body, i will be a doctor/surgeon, i have a residency, etc, etc.

    If there is someone who is knowledgeable or part of the med field then i will say pod school, but for everyday i say med school and i have no problems with that.

    Bottom line is I have no problem with enlightening people about podiatry, in fact i think it is one of my duties as a dpm student (within reason of course, i mean isnt that what the apma is for!?!?!). With that said I havent lost sight of the fact that i will heal people and what the first letter in my degree stands for.
     
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  13. SubRosa

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    I do the exact same thing when explaining my post-grad to distant family and friends. Most of the general public have no idea what pod school is, the difficulty and length of it, or the general duties of the profession.

    I don't see the harm in the use of the term "medical school" with the general public. I agree with heeltoe calling it pod school specifically in company of those in the medical field as there is no less respect or disgrace associated with podiatry or else I wouldn't be persuing it. I mean, isn't the whole point of Vision to help us become designated as "physicians" rather than "podiatric physicians"? The term "medical school" is just as encompassing as the term "physician".

    I guess I just don't understand why it matters so much. It's what you do with the DPM not how you say it, right?
     
  14. krabmas

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    I think it matters.

    As long as we say we go to medical school and not podiatry school would be future pods are still under the impression that pods go to MD/DO school.

    Even though it is the APMA's job to advocate and advertise and educate the public they cannot reach everyone.

    I think it is each DPM's duty to also educate the public and saying that you became a podiatrist by going to Medical school is not educating the public. It is not lying either.
     
  15. Creflo

    Creflo time to eat
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    i'm with the above guy, he's got it right
     
  16. IPODiatrist

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    i agree. theres a lot of ***** envy in our profession that i think stems from the lack of knowledge about it in the public sphere, so we are then ashamed because perhaps saying podiatry school involves explaining our training.

    but if you went through the trouble of taking mcats/interviewing/taking difficult science classes----
    u can go through the trouble of explaining our professional training to the layman and still end it by saying guess what- we are physicians of the foot! thats one less person who needs to be educated in the future.

    if we or the apma isn't going to do it-- then who is?
     
  17. polykks

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    I totallly agree with you. We are the ones who have to be doing it.
    I don't feel asahmed of saying podiatric school. Its what I chose to do for life. It is not like massaging people's foot!! It is just like what dentists do. I think the most exact expression of our job is a surgeon of the foot if you are to explain what the podiatrist is to anyone who don't know.
     
  18. hyperpodia

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    If you go to the following schools you have earned the right to say you go to Med school

    Scholl, DMU, and AZPod
     
  19. spo01

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    ha, osteopathic podiatrists- 'we focus on the whole foot.' good luck explaining that one.
     
  20. cool_vkb

    cool_vkb Member
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    I;am sorry but this is really irritating and irrational logic.

    What the f.....k do you mean you earned the right? Is your degree coming from Midwestern College of Osteopathy , or Chicago medical school or DMU Osteopathy school that you have earned it to proclaim you go to Medical School.

    beter idea! do one thing, since you have "EARNED" the right, go and try to join AMSA (American medical student association). if they accept your logic and take you as their member then wallaaaah! start procaliming you go to medical school. Ofcourse AMSA is no gold standard but they are like the authority tat represents "MEDICAL STUDENTS" in USA and since you have earned it, they should have no problem accepting you.

    In Scholl, Path assistants take a pathology class with Medical students and tons of classes with Podiatry students, now by your logic does tht mean they earned their right to say they go to medical school or podiatry school?

    Represent what your school degree says. it doesnt matter if you sit with MD/DO studnets for 2yrs or 4yrs. What SCHOOL IS GIVING YOU THE DEGREE, WHAT BOARD EXAMS ARE YOU TAKING, ARE RESIDENCIES BEING ADMINISTERED BY AGCME OR CPME?

    Here;s an account i found on Myspace, "I just finished my 1st year of medical school in xyz and will be beginning my 2nd year....." . Now in this entire phrase where is the term podiatry or DPM. These are some of the things that are really irritating me and these are the same things which some MD/DO students are picking up and making fun of us saying ha ha you guys cant even admit you guys go to Pod school :-( .
     
  21. heeltoe

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    Cool_vkb I think hyperpodia posted just to poke some fun and not seriously, however I could be mistaken.

    In regards to your facebook/myspace coments I completely see where you are coming from and I do agree with you to some extent. But I must admit i am guilty of what bothers you as well. My stand point is that first of all its facebook/myspace so who cares, but along with med school i also have my school listed and my degree listed so there is no mistaking or shame in what i am doing. Perhaps that is not the case for the people you have seen.

    I wonder if the DO people write "i just finished my first year of osteopathic medical school". I am guessing probebly not and just write medical school. Now, that is of course more closely related to MD medical school but i think the principal is the same. You could ask them if they are ashamed to be a DO, and admit they are going to a DO school.

    On a somewhat side note this all does seem rather comical to me. We as pods have been bitching for parity with the MD's, urging for mcat only acceptance at schools, and usmle's for boards - I am basing this on the numerous threads in this forum. Yet when we start saying med school you as well as others are complaing that its not med school. What gives?

    I have made it clear that i have no problem with the pod school designation, but for what we do now and for what we are asking for and hoping to achieve in the future our niche has med school written all over it (if we must classify). The dents and the opt's, although are medical specialties, they are not nearly as similar as we are (mcat, residency, etc) to the MD's. So go ahead call it a pod school, but dont be offended by calling it a med school either.
     
  22. 165007

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    says the guy who's going to temple.
    :laugh:
     
  23. PJAG

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    :thumbup:
     
  24. hyperpodia

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    Take a chill pill, I was just jocking,
    I think one should be honest and tell the general public that Pod school is different. Podiatrist do not receive the M.D or D.O, thus we don't go to Medical school we go to Pod school. Two of my friends were arguing about this, one flat out said Podiatrist do not go to Med school (thus inferior) the other was arguing that Podiatrist are physicians/doctors (thus equivalent)

    However the real question is whether the quality and level of education the best Pod school students receive is similar/equivalent to Med school. My goal is to do the best I can to get a comparable education/training so that my patients do not receive substandard care.

    The best way to answer this will be for Pod students to take the USMLE ( this will never happen)

    A person accepted into a medical school and enrolled in an educational program in medicine, with the goal of becoming a medical doctor, is referred to as a medical student or student doctor.(From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
     
  25. TheBee

    TheBee Scholl 2012, baby!
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    People think it's great I want to work with kids :p
     
  26. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
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    TRUE STORY:


    Hair Dresser: How is your weekend going?
    My Friend: Fine, I'm on my way to a good-bye party for a friend of mine. He's going to podiatry school.
    Hair Dresser: That is just sick! Anybody who would spend their entire day sticking their finger up someone's butt is JUST doing it for the money.
    My Friend: What???:confused::confused::confused: NO, NO, not PROCTOLOGY school!!!
     
  27. MaseratiGT

    MaseratiGT Legilimens!
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    LOL! That deserves a ROFLcopter!
     
  28. MaseratiGT

    MaseratiGT Legilimens!
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    :laugh:
    There is this lady that comes into the pharmacy I work at, AND SHE SAYS THAT EXACT THING, even though I have told her 63 million times that it's FEET!

    I'm going to LOVE my geriatrics course...
     
  29. It's Podiatry school.

    How many medical schools have dentists teaching anatomy or podiatrists teaching podiatry?

    It's Po-Di-A-Try---ing school.
     
  30. IPODiatrist

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    actually--- one that i know of that definitely uses podiatrists is
    St. Matthews School of Medicine in the Caribbean. u can say whatever the hell u want about caribbean schools, fact is--- and it may be ugly to all you medical elitists out there----they do PRODUCE MD's who not only pass the ECFMG but also steps 1,2,and 3.

    anyhow-- off on a tangent on the foreign medical school hating, when my buddy was doing part of his coursework in florida---a DPM gave all the lectures covering diabetes/wound care.

    also, when he was doing his clinical rotations in chicago---he was in the OR with a podiatrist. doing actual surgery-- OMG like wow. now u have one story of a medical school that utilizes podiatrists.

    i should also like to add a friend of mine is a MS2 at baylor college of medicine, and the first thing they (students and docs) do routinely when they find that a patient has diabetes is send them to a podiatrist for a diabetes consult. that is what they are taught. i guess thats 2 medical schools that utilize podiatrists, one of them as teachers.
     
  31. cool_vkb

    cool_vkb Member
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    :laugh: Carribean medical school being used as example.
     
  32. spo01

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    Yeah... I'm gonna have to agree that the example used there did more damage then good lol.
     
  33. IPODiatrist

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    laugh all u want. fact is they produce doctors, id like to see u laugh at an IMG from a caribbean school when he/she is on a round during residency with you. lot of negative stereotyping about IMGs here. a lot of ppl can make the same case for podiatry-- they let in everyone, blah blah blah. point is-- while caribbean may take a lot of applicants who dont cut it, when they pass the USMLE, ECFMG, theyve shown they can. just like in podiatry--- u might be able to get in easy-- its not so easy to stay in.
     
  34. SugarNaCl

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    This is interesting to me because I am in dental school and we are taking pathology right now and the course is run by MDs in the medical school. One of them said today "if a dentist prescribes blood pressure medicine, there is nothing wrong with that... you are physicians, of the mouth and supporting structures, but you are still physicians and you have that right." I wasn't too comfortable with that because it is out of the dental scope but it just shows that all these medical doctorate fields are for the most part considered along with the others.
    On the flip side, I would be as likely to prescribe blood pressure meds after graduating as an MD would be to take a bur to a tooth.
     
  35. cool_vkb

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    naah iam not making fun of Carribean school applicants but iam definetly making fun of caribean schools. have you eve visited Spartan medical school or St.james school of medicine in the islands. pay a visit or ask someone to send photos of the school you will see what iam saying. Dont wanna name the school but that one school didnt even had cadavers for anatomy lab for entire year, while other school's roof got blown away in storm.

    ofcourse saba, ross, smu, SGU are standard names but they are not the only four that represent carribean there are like 30 schools there full of wonders and amazing stories. :)
     
  36. Danmanwrx

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    #35 Danmanwrx, May 24, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
  37. justincredible

    justincredible SCPM c/o 2011
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    Actually, when the associate dean at Scholl was telling the c/o 2011 about Vision 2015, she was saying pod students taking the USMLE in the future is not as far fetched as you may think. She didnt say it would or wouldnt happen, but the point was is MAY happen.
     
  38. shocker

    shocker Senior Member
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    Just to make sure everyone knows this about the USMLE. It is a 4-part exam Step 1, Step 2-CK, Step 2-CS, and Step 3. And for almost every state they require you to have already finished your medical degree before taking Step 3.

    The Step 2-CK and Step 3 exams test information from the core rotations of the clinical years (years 3-4) of MD/DO training with Step 3 just emphasizing more management than diagnosis.

    I have no problem with anyone taking these tests or saying they go to medical school or podiatry school. But from my presumption podiatry students would not have taken the required courses(Psychiatry, OB/Gyn, Peds, etc) at the same level as MD/DO students to have a fair shot at the latter portions of the USMLE exams.

    If you guys meant you would take Step 1 and that is all, then no worries as from what I have heard the training is very similar in those subjects. And if you guys do these clinical rotations soemwhere in your 4 years then I was just being presumptive.
     
  39. Danmanwrx

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    #38 Danmanwrx, May 26, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2009
  40. dpmgrad

    dpmgrad Senior Member
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    There is a rumor stating that selected few students from Scholl Class of 2012 may be taking USMLE Step 1 to test the waters. I believe that this may have been discussed in previous forums.
     
  41. I have absolutely no doubt that Pods are lecturing at a handfull of medical schools, but the point of my original post was that there are no medical school classes titled "Podiatric Medicine."


    BTW, name one med school that has surgery courses that only cover bunions, hammer toes and the all coveted, rearfoot procedures.
     
  42. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
    Podiatrist Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Find one medical school that covers any of that PERIOD! They barely cover lower limb.
     
  43. krabmas

    krabmas Senior Member
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    And that, my friends, is why we go to podiatry school.
     
  44. IPODiatrist

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    haha how about this--
    btw- name a medical school that has a course called gross head and neck anatomy, or covers oral pathology or operative dentistry, or courses that ONLY cover those coveted dental occlusion courses?
     
  45. zephryus14

    zephryus14 zephyrus14
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    Scholl students actually take more anatomy than the MD students at RFUMS. We take Gross Anatomy together (including lab), then afterwards the SCPM students have our Lower Extremity Anatomy course with lab.

    As for the Scholl Class of 2012, they are not taking the USMLE Part 1. I have regular conversations with the administration and this has not been discussed.
     
  46. JEWmongous

    JEWmongous Member
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    Any word on the new curriculum?
     
  47. shabu2

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    :thumbup:

    You guys chose to go into pods, so be proud to be podiatrists!!! I attended both dental and med school and believe me, attending med school is nothing special. Just another hoop to jump through to achieve my ends.
     
  48. doclm

    doclm Senior Member
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    Scholl now instead of having a goal of above national average on Boards, is going to have a new goal of 100% pass rate for the class of 2012. Also, you guys will be on the new 2+2 curriculm and taking clinical medicine with the MD's for both years. I would expect your class to have hard but rewarding curriculm.
     
  49. cool_vkb

    cool_vkb Member
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    hey is it true, tat class of 2012 will also have ECR 1 & 2:D , the clinical medicine course which you are referring is tat the same ECR course?
     
  50. zephryus14

    zephryus14 zephyrus14
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    The SCPM Class of 2012 is scheduled to take ECR (Essentials of Clinical Reasoning) 1 their first year, but are not scheduled to take ECR 2 their second year.
     
  51. cool_vkb

    cool_vkb Member
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    hey wat abt class of 2011. are we taking ECR-2? how 2012 people dont get to take ECR-2 :-(
     

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