Is it normal for residents to be treated badly?

[hzma]

How badly are residents treated in your program? is it normal for them to be yelled at? Spoken to rudely? Humiliated every now and then? What's the deal here?

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[Hurricane]

No, but psychiatrists are a pretty laid back bunch.

 

[J.J.]

I'm sure there are exception to this but, for the most part, I've seen residents treated quite fairly. There are some attending that just b**tch all the time and there are others whom you work extra hard for simply b/c you don't want to disappoint them. Personally, I've never seen an attending yell at a intern or resident, but like I said, I'm sure there are some stories floating around.

JJ

 

[baylormed]

I'm sure (even though I'm not a resident yet), that wherever we go we will end up with both good and bad bosses (in this case, attendings).

I've had my share of crappy jobs and in all of them you encounter mostly nice people, with the occasional (sp?) jerk. Once I got yelled at by the cook at a restaurant for daring to serve 5 meatballs in a spaguetti bowl when WE ONLY SERVE 4!!! Needless to say, I don't miss that job.

 

[Winged Scapula]

"Normal" in the general sense? No but there is a lot of psychopathology in medicine and it ain't all in the patients.

Common? Yes, it can be.

That said, I don't recall ever being yelled at. Humilated or treated rudely, yes.

 

[sunlioness]

How badly are residents treated in your program? is it normal for them to be yelled at? Spoken to rudely? Humiliated every now and then? What's the deal here?

No. This didn't happen in either my IM or psych residencies.

 

[doctawife]

I don't recall ever being yelled at. Humilated or treated rudely, yes.

Usually, the rudeness wasn't deliberate and the yelling was deserved. (I only got yelled at once, and that's cause I discharged the patient based on the endocrine fellow's note without waiting for the attending. Rookie mistake and not made again.) Mostly I would say residents are treated carelessly. My program made a good effort to teach us - providing lectures and the like - and protect us - at least they tried to comply with the 80/30 rule even in the PICU.

But we were still sh&t upon. Mostly 'cause we had no power and everyone knew it. Frequently as an intern I felt little better than a medical secretary passing messages between various primary and specialty services, or literally reading the day's progress note to parents who couldn't be bothered to come by to see their kids during business hours. But such is internship.

**** always rolls downhill, and guess who's holding the shovel? The intern. But that's okay, 'cause movement uphill does happen.

 

[nradsoit3]

there is a lot of psychopathology in medicine and it ain't all in the patients.

I concur with this statement 100%. I didn't realize how true this was until I worked in another field (where people were more "normal" and were actually "fun to work with"-- imagine that?!) in between residencies. Damn I miss that job!!!

 

[danielmd06]

It always depends. I was generally treated fairly by all attendings this year.

If you are a prelim for another specialty, you might just get some "unfairness" thrown at you (relative to your categorical counterparts).

The thing to keep in mind is that someone can always beat you down, but they cannot stop the clock.

Sooner or later the year will end.

 

[surfsurg]

Depends on the specialty and the program. In surgery and in my program i have seen it done (being treated like s*&t ie. yelled at, condescencion, foul language, e.t.c) frequently.

 

[JoBlo]

Humilated or treated rudely, yes.

Can you give some examples? I want to know what I'm getting into...

 

[8744]

Usually, the rudeness wasn't deliberate and the yelling was deserved. (I only got yelled at once, and that's cause I discharged the patient based on the endocrine fellow's note without waiting for the attending. Rookie mistake and not made again.) Mostly I would say residents are treated carelessly. My program made a good effort to teach us - providing lectures and the like - and protect us - at least they tried to comply with the 80/30 rule even in the PICU.

But we were still sh&t upon. Mostly 'cause we had no power and everyone knew it. Frequently as an intern I felt little better than a medical secretary passing messages between various primary and specialty services, or literally reading the day's progress note to parents who couldn't be bothered to come by to see their kids during business hours. But such is internship.

**** always rolls downhill, and guess who's holding the shovel? The intern. But that's okay, 'cause movement uphill does happen.

That's exactly it.

 

[sackrad]

if i'm doing a prelim year, why should i care about impressing everyone? What stops me from taking off many sick days.....

 

[deleted109597]

if i'm doing a prelim year, why should i care about impressing everyone? What stops me from taking off many sick days.....

Your contract tells you how many you have. Take more, and you won't pass. Don't pass, and your advanced program won't let you start.

 

[sackrad]

I don't think thats true.

Your contract tells you how many PAID sick days you have.

I know that you have to be present for a specific number of days to pass but I think its more than the sick days allowed!

 

[TaiShan]

I don't think thats true.

Your contract tells you how many PAID sick days you have.

I know that you have to be present for a specific number of days to pass but I think its more than the sick days allowed!

In surgery, it is 48 weeks. If you work less than 48 weeks, you won't graduate in a year. That is about 4 weeks of time for vacation, interview, sicks days...

I know people who had to delay advanced training for a year because s/he could not finish his/her prelim year in time.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Can you give some examples? I want to know what I'm getting into...

Well, unless you are going into the same specialty at the same program I was at, I'm not sure specific examples of my experience would help.

Humiliation might take the form of not just questioning your management but openly criticizing it, with personal attacks, in front of colleagues.

It may take the form of personal attacks on your SO, which has NO place in my training and education, IMHO.

Rudeness can take many forms - from keeping the residents waiting hours to round, without notifying them you would be late, telling patients one thing and the residents another (which might fall under humiliation as it could be construed as a test to see whether or not you actually saw the patient, or simply, makes you look bad in front of the patient when you don't know the plan), etc.

I could go on and on. The ones that bothered me the most were attacks on my family and SO, the assumption that personal problems, being tired or calling late at night were a form of weakness and rather than asking a resident if there was a problem when they were late or distracted, simply assuming they didn't care/were stupid/lazy, etc. Of course, as a female there were comments/worries about us getting pregnant, etc.

 

[Hoo\/er]

I could go on and on. The ones that bothered me the most were attacks on my family and SO, the assumption that personal problems, being tired or calling late at night were a form of weakness and rather than asking a resident if there was a problem when they were late or distracted, simply assuming they didn't care/were stupid/lazy, etc. Of course, as a female there were comments/worries about us getting pregnant, etc.

Where else but medicine would this be tolerated even the slightest little bit? I'll answer for you: Nowhere. These dinguses should be reprimanded and then fired, left to serve my fries as I pass through the drive-through.

 

[dutchman]

Well, unless you are going into the same specialty at the same program I was at, I'm not sure specific examples of my experience would help.

Humiliation might take the form of not just questioning your management but openly criticizing it, with personal attacks, in front of colleagues.

It may take the form of personal attacks on your SO, which has NO place in my training and education, IMHO.

Rudeness can take many forms - from keeping the residents waiting hours to round, without notifying them you would be late, telling patients one thing and the residents another (which might fall under humiliation as it could be construed as a test to see whether or not you actually saw the patient, or simply, makes you look bad in front of the patient when you don't know the plan), etc.

I could go on and on. The ones that bothered me the most were attacks on my family and SO, the assumption that personal problems, being tired or calling late at night were a form of weakness and rather than asking a resident if there was a problem when they were late or distracted, simply assuming they didn't care/were stupid/lazy, etc. Of course, as a female there were comments/worries about us getting pregnant, etc.

Damnit Kim! you had me wondering for a good solid 2 minutes what SO stands for.

 

[funkless]

Damnit Kim! you had me wondering for a good solid 2 minutes what SO stands for.

Significant Other

 

[PediBoneDoc]

in residency, you will have ups and downs ... you will make mistakes ....

there is psychopathology .. or as we say in our program "the have a DSM diagnosis" ....

i can speak for myself... i'm not a yeller ... i am a heckler ... so if that is considered rude, i would respond to the resident "well then get better with your hands" ....

your perspective changes once you are out of residency ... the only time that i would ever call someone out and make an example of the in front of others is if it was a major error and we don't want anyone to make this error again .... we are ultimately responsible, so if it is something that could cause harm to the patient .... or a missed diagnosis without consulting an attending or senior level resident ... you will feel the wrath

i can not speak for medicine, but if you are in or going into surgery ... get a thicker skin .... there's no crying in surgery ....

 

[drtx]

Surgery shouldn't be any different. I personally experienced some very bad behavior from an attending..."Get me the f@#$%ing number NOWWW!!" Putting his finger right in my face. I'm not clinically incompetent and am considered a good resident. He did this to everybody. A complaint was filed and the CEO of the hospital investigated it. The truth is, you have to comply with state employment laws in whatever profession you are in.

Sur

​

 

[Winged Scapula]

Where else but medicine would this be tolerated even the slightest little bit? I'll answer for you: Nowhere. These dinguses should be reprimanded and then fired, left to serve my fries as I pass through the drive-through.

Exactly. Medicine, and especially surgery, has long tolerated, even rewarded, this bad behavior. Whilst the attendings on service where mad (but not suprised) with my Chief resident and his comments about my SO, I didn't pursue anything and so no reprimands (that I know of) were metted out. I still hate that SOB (my former Chief) though for attacking someone I love (and for other, less personal, reasons).

 

[Winged Scapula]

Surgery shouldn't be any different.
[/INDENT]

No it shouldn't be...but unfortunately, sometimes bad behavior gets rewarded. Either because they know they can't get another (neuro/CT/whatever)surgeon to work there, or because its easier than trying to change things, or even the perception that its "ok" because he's so "gifted technically".

 

[drtx]

The whole "gifted technically" thing cracks me up!! It is a sorry, sorry excuse for some of those whiny babies out there and their tantrums. Ultimately, don't let them get you down no matter what..the people who behave that way are secretly miserable.
​

 

[hzma]

Surgery shouldn't be any different. I personally experienced some very bad behavior from an attending..."Get me the f@#$%ing number NOWWW!!" Putting his finger right in my face. I'm not clinically incompetent and am considered a good resident. He did this to everybody. A complaint was filed and the CEO of the hospital investigated it. The truth is, you have to comply with state employment laws in whatever profession you are in.

Sur

​

How do you file a complaint? and where? and is it just b/c he swore, or was it many incidences?
thanks!

 

[Winged Scapula]

The whole "gifted technically" thing cracks me up!! It is a sorry, sorry excuse for some of those whiny babies out there and their tantrums.
​

I know.

I actually had a med school classmate who swore that one of his attendings told him that it was "good" for future surgeons to act arrogant, because it was expected and got "things done". Whatever.

All I can say is that I'm glad that classmate is not practicing surgery.

 

[Winged Scapula]

How do you file a complaint? and where? and is it just b/c he swore, or was it many incidences?
thanks!

Complaints should be filed through either the GME office or Human Resources. Check with both regarding employee grievances. They will direct it appropriately.

 

[sirus_virus]

in residency, you will have ups and downs ... you will make mistakes ....

there is psychopathology .. or as we say in our program "the have a DSM diagnosis" ....

i can speak for myself... i'm not a yeller ... i am a heckler ... so if that is considered rude, i would respond to the resident "well then get better with your hands" ....

your perspective changes once you are out of residency ... the only time that i would ever call someone out and make an example of the in front of others is if it was a major error and we don't want anyone to make this error again .... we are ultimately responsible, so if it is something that could cause harm to the patient .... or a missed diagnosis without consulting an attending or senior level resident ... you will feel the wrath

i can not speak for medicine, but if you are in or going into surgery ... get a thicker skin .... there's no crying in surgery ....

Heckling, yelling, or whatever you call it might just be a sign of your own lack of self control, or an inability to handle pressure. There is no evidence that this is an effective teaching method. I would not be surprised if that nonsense manifested in other non-medical relationships in your life.

 

[8744]

in residency, you will have ups and downs ... you will make mistakes ....

there is psychopathology .. or as we say in our program "the have a DSM diagnosis" ....

i can speak for myself... i'm not a yeller ... i am a heckler ... so if that is considered rude, i would respond to the resident "well then get better with your hands" ....

your perspective changes once you are out of residency ... the only time that i would ever call someone out and make an example of the in front of others is if it was a major error and we don't want anyone to make this error again .... we are ultimately responsible, so if it is something that could cause harm to the patient .... or a missed diagnosis without consulting an attending or senior level resident ... you will feel the wrath

i can not speak for medicine, but if you are in or going into surgery ... get a thicker skin .... there's no crying in surgery ....

I think you would get your ass kicked on a daily basis in any other job except one where your subordinates are basically chattel slaves and have no choice but to tolerate your personality disorder.

You're an ass and typical of the reason that more people don't go into surgery who would probably make pretty good surgeons if it wasn't for malignant gatekeepers like you.

 

[drtx]

How do you file a complaint? and where? and is it just b/c he swore, or was it many incidences?
thanks!

There were a lot of complaints through HR already. Usually, behavior like that where it makes another person really frightened (especially if you are a female and a 6ft man is in your face)is not isolated. HR is a good place because they treat residents like employees and sometimes it is good to remember that we are employees, not just residents.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

Oh panda bear .. such a cute name ... my resident is actually laughing at your name at this very moment ... now PA is making comments ... imjussayin

obviously you missed the point of what i said ... i said i heckle them ... it is all in fun and education ... i don't yell i get quiet when i am mad ... the point of heckling is that if don't want to get heckled, you do better ....

as for the ass kicking ... i welcome it ... bring it on ... if you have the b@lz ... i call your bluff ... my resident has got my back (by the way she is a 5'4" young lady) ... i think she can take you ...

 

[PediBoneDoc]

for those who have been in other positions ... medicine is not different from buisness or law ... thare are dinguses all around ... i have worked as an engineer ... i have been to Iraq with my unit ... i have taught in schools ... there are always people above you who may Sh one t on you ...

and panda bear you are smart had to look up Chattel slave was .... i'm no a smart man ... but i do know about orthopaedics ... ...

residency has changed ... the ability to be an @ss is less ... nurses write you up ... patients write you up ... OR staff write you up ... with the new generation of physicians the mentality of many from the sirlent generation and baby boomers is gone ... gen xers are now in the house .... and things are changing ... and everyone learns in different ways ... i do find in the type A personality, the fear of failure is a great motivator ...

and panda bear ... i will apoligize for heckling you .........NOT ... (learned that from Borat) .... dude calm down ... your like an up tight general surgeon ... you don't even know me an you call me an @ss .... if you really want to know how i feel ... go to my blog ... you can read my thoughts on educating the new generation How to train the next generation of orthopaedic surgeons ... or my experience with malignant educators I want your DOR ... MAY-O-NNAISE or some of my experiences as an intern Don't quit in February ...

if i didn't care, why even bother posting .... you all rock especially the dr. cox ...

pedi @ss$ole bonedoc out

 

[appleberry]

for those who have been in other positions ... medicine is not different from buisness or law ... thare are dinguses all around ... i have worked as an engineer ... i have been to Iraq with my unit ... i have taught in schools ... there are always people above you who may Sh one t on you ...

and panda bear you are smart had to look up Chattel slave was .... i'm no a smart man ... but i do know about orthopaedics ... ...

residency has changed ... the ability to be an @ss is less ... nurses write you up ... patients write you up ... OR staff write you up ... with the new generation of physicians the mentality of many from the sirlent generation and baby boomers is gone ... gen xers are now in the house .... and things are changing ... and everyone learns in different ways ... i do find in the type A personality, the fear of failure is a great motivator ...

and panda bear ... i will apoligize for heckling you .........NOT ... (learned that from Borat) .... dude calm down ... your like an up tight general surgeon ... you don't even know me an you call me an @ss .... if you really want to know how i feel ... go to my blog ... you can read my thoughts on educating the new generation How to train the next generation of orthopaedic surgeons ... or my experience with malignant educators I want your DOR ... MAY-O-NNAISE or some of my experiences as an intern Don't quit in February ...

if i didn't care, why even bother posting .... you all rock especially the dr. cox ...

pedi @ss$ole bonedoc out

whats with all the "..."; there are commas and periods in the english language ya know. And you should try to put in more than 4 words to form a sentence. i apologize but i feel like im reading some high schooler's blog

 

[bigtimesmally]

in residency, you will have ups and downs ... you will make mistakes ....

there is psychopathology .. or as we say in our program "the have a DSM diagnosis" ....

i can speak for myself... i'm not a yeller ... i am a heckler ... so if that is considered rude, i would respond to the resident "well then get better with your hands" ....

your perspective changes once you are out of residency ... the only time that i would ever call someone out and make an example of the in front of others is if it was a major error and we don't want anyone to make this error again .... we are ultimately responsible, so if it is something that could cause harm to the patient .... or a missed diagnosis without consulting an attending or senior level resident ... you will feel the wrath

i can not speak for medicine, but if you are in or going into surgery ... get a thicker skin .... there's no crying in surgery ....

Why heckle? I don't get it. Good teachers teach, that's it. They don't have to yell, put down, etc. What a sorry ass miserable world we have created in this medical profession. I swear, 95% of the attendings don't have the balls to do what they do in the OR in the outside world.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

the ... are an old habit from writing emails in college. i think it may have come about because i wrote as if i was actually speaking to you and sometimes they weren't in complete sentences. i picked it up from someone. i was a fricken engineer we did weird stuff. so sorry, i will use periods and commas .... oops that was out of habit (smiley face)


pedi out

ps for all you KATG fans ...BRUMSKI

 

[drtx]

Ha! Spoken like a true orthopod.

 

[8744]

the ... are an old habit from writing emails in college. i think it may have come about because i wrote as if i was actually speaking to you and sometimes they weren't in complete sentences. i picked it up from someone. i was a fricken engineer we did weird stuff. so sorry, i will use periods and commas .... oops that was out of habit (smiley face)


pedi out

ps for all you KATG fans ...BRUMSKI

I was an engineer. I can write a complete sentence.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

to those who don't know me and assume i am some sort of swearing, yelling dingus ....

first off, may be my understanding of heckling is different than yours.

for me, when i am running the C-arm and my chief resident is taking the junior through the case and they struggle a little bit and i make the comment from the cheap seats "my mom could put that pin in faster thatn you." or "it must be the first day with you new hands." this is playful banter. i call it heckling. for the record, i did the same thing when i played rugby, in the army. i do it to my mom. ok not my mom really, but all 5 of my sisters (wish i had a brother). this is a playful discord between me and the residents. there is no animosity. there is no yelling. they understand that when i ask a question and there are blank stares and i say "you know it is in bold print in the books with pictures." it is code for "come on guys you should know this." i don't ask hard questions. i am realist. i teach them real world applications of the information and techniques they are learning. i am really interested in the education of the resident. i love coming to work. i love teaching my residents. i feel work should be fun and people should not take themselves so seriously.

and i personally don' like being referred to as a teacher. i am an educator damit.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

panda bear

much love to the fellow engineer. (chest thump and point) i got no hate in my heart for you. you can throw sticks but the force is strong in me and i just block it with a jedi mind wall.

pedi

 

[goooooober]

to those who don't know me and assume i am some sort of swearing, yelling dingus ....

first off, may be my understanding of heckling is different than yours.

for me, when i am running the C-arm and my chief resident is taking the junior through the case and they struggle a little bit and i make the comment from the cheap seats "my mom could put that pin in faster thatn you." or "it must be the first day with you new hands." this is playful banter. i call it heckling. for the record, i did the same thing when i played rugby, in the army. i do it to my mom. ok not my mom really, but all 5 of my sisters (wish i had a brother). this is a playful discord between me and the residents. there is no animosity. there is no yelling. they understand that when i ask a question and there are blank stares and i say "you know it is in bold print in the books with pictures." it is code for "come on guys you should know this." i don't ask hard questions. i am realist. i teach them real world applications of the information and techniques they are learning. i am really interested in the education of the resident. i love coming to work. i love teaching my residents. i feel work should be fun and people should not take themselves so seriously.

and i personally don' like being referred to as a teacher. i am an educator damit.

First off, good posts , I enjoyed reading them . I do agree that everyone should lighten up at work as long as the boundaries of professionalism are not crossed . As I enter general surgery residency , I hope my mentors and fellow interns are cool like that . But if they are not , I do understand thanks partially to your posts .

 

[fang]

(I'm yet another former engineer who can write in complete sentences! Shocking.)

Pedibonedoc, your "heckling" is just a veiled form of humiliation unless your subordinates can heckle back; in that case it would be as you describe "playful banter". Otherwise, you're just enforcing the hierarchy by getting on the resident's case when you know he/she can't use the same same kind of language back with you.

As a student, I will take a lot of crap, but my method of dealing with rude, unreasonable people is to suck it up and listen without letting any of it stick (otherwise, I'd be a snivelling mess by now.) People who "heckle" or are otherwise going out of thir way to make sure I know who's boss also fit in this category-- they're just dishing out more crap that I'm obliged to absorb. I'd argue that pushing students into this defensive mode is not a good teaching strategy.

I don't mind getting asked hard questions on rounds, even if I don't know the answer. It's embarassing, but it's not personal. The best teachers I've had haven't strayed anywhere near humiliation, heckling, or sarcasm as a tool for learning. They have my auomatic respect because of who they are and what they know, not because they're enforcing their superior position in the hierachy. I'll work hard for these people because I actually care what they think.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

you all are kinda funny. i guess someone was really mean to you.

i heckle and i expect the same back. i heckle my senior partner when we do a spine together (usually during the not so serious parts) and he was a west point guy. i heckle myself. "lord grant me new hands so that i can operate with more skill."

understand that my method is not to humiliate, it is to have fun. learning is fun. everyday is a school day. hierarchy on my service, your darn right. i am the boss. the buck stops here. because, i am responsible if you (the resident) makes a mistake. that being said, in my world, discussions are free form. you have a question, i will answer. i may ask you a question, you will answer. humiliation, not so much. i leave that to the gen surgeons (those guys were hard on me). i treat my residents as people first, physicians second, and residents third.

maybe you all had some bad sea food and are taking my playful banter as some sort of indication that i agree with a malignant educator. i believe that i learn something new everyday. i believe even the mighty can be humbled. i believe that everyone should be treated with respect and dignity. i believe i can fly (oh sorry i got carried away). stay humble, and you don't have as far to fall.

 

[fang]

you all are kinda funny. i guess someone was really mean to you.

i heckle and i expect the same back. i heckle my senior partner when we do a spine together (usually during the not so serious parts) and he was a west point guy. i heckle myself. "lord grant me new hands so that i can operate with more skill."

understand that my method is not to humiliate, it is to have fun. learning is fun. everyday is a school day. hierarchy on my service, your darn right. i am the boss. the buck stops here. because, i am responsible if you (the resident) makes a mistake. that being said, in my world, discussions are free form. you have a question, i will answer. i may ask you a question, you will answer. humiliation, not so much. i leave that to the gen surgeons (those guys were hard on me). i treat my residents as people first, physicians second, and residents third.

maybe you all had some bad sea food and are taking my playful banter as some sort of indication that i agree with a malignant educator. i believe that i learn something new everyday. i believe even the mighty can be humbled. i believe that everyone should be treated with respect and dignity. i believe i can fly (oh sorry i got carried away). stay humble, and you don't have as far to fall.

I actually like the hierarchy because there is a security in knowing who is responsible for what. And I abslutely respect it.

However, I think you are deluding yourself that there can be "playful banter" between people at different ranks on this hierarchy. I would never, ever make some lighthearted jab at a resident when he/she is in the middle of an operation-- it would be entirely inappropriate. Do you REALLY expect the medical student to say something like "hey, did you drink too much coffee this morning or is there are earthquake going on? HAHAHA!!" People may be putting up with your comments, but I doubt they appreciate them.

I think it's great you want to be a real human being with your coworkers and a good teacher-- that's probably more important than anything else. Maybe consider that because of the hierarchy, your subordinates are not truly free to express themselves without a lot of frontal lobe modulation, and perhaps the heckling isn't as fun as you think.

(Also dude, maybe we can pick another word besides "playful banter" because this one reminds me of foreplay and not much else!)

 

[PediBoneDoc]

another word than playful banter. hmmmm, how 'bout "just jokes".

in my world, we don't get many medical students. so, i don't get much back and forth with them except in lecture. then i usually use the "just jokes" attitude. learning should be fun. i warn them first. "you fall asleep, i will call on you." is that mean? you be the judge. i also expect them to have read before the lecture. so, i ask questions. is that mean?

hey, as far as the residents go, they all know me. we are orthopods. we spit and scratch are balz (i am not sure what the girls do, oh well). my residents and OR staff know i am light hearted and enjoy a good laugh. geez, i feel i should come to these things with references . remember i heckle up and down the hierarchy.

i had my residents read most of these comments and they laugh because people are so serious. most of my residents use the frontal lobe modulation for my chairman (sometimes). but, in general we are pretty loose service. we all don't take ourselves so seriously, truely. if you need references i have some from this university and the last university where i was staff.

 

[dynx]

when i am running the C-arm and my chief resident is taking the junior through the case and they struggle a little bit and i make the comment from the cheap seats "my mom could put that pin in faster thatn you." or "it must be the first day with you new hands." this is playful banter

The question is...if your chief resident said the same to you as you struggled would it still be funny? If it is, you're awsome. If not, you're the dingus everyone is saying you are.

You don't need to answer, frankly, I don't care. I just thought this question might help resolve this issue.

 

[PediBoneDoc]

The question is...if your chief resident said the same to you as you struggled would it still be funny? If it is, you're awsome. If not, you're the dingus everyone is saying you are.

the honest answer is i will usually beat them to the punch. it hurts less. i'm sneaky like that. my chiefs are my right hand man/woman. i treat them as if they were jr. attendings, so if they said it to me. yes it would be funny and usually is. hey, we all struggle at some point. i find my stuggles amussing.

i will give you a case example. this happend yesterday. i had 2 resident (which never happends), a chief and a junior. so, i let the chief take the junior through the case. the hardest thing for an attending surgeon to do is not take the knife from you. i let him struggle. i helped when asked. the only heckle was really only a statement of truth, "you know it only takes me an hour." smirk but, he completed it. bravo, he learned and our xrays look AFT (for the orthopods out there)

i am awesome .... not. everyone, keep it light. never believe you own press and we are only as good as our last case.

 

[Tigger14]

We had a meeting recently, and someone made an excellent point about surgical education: (I paraphrase) We are taught part of the military code of honor. We are tough, and do not show weakness or indecision. We follow directions and do not subordinate, because this is how we are taught. A lot of this probably makes good surgeons, in this respect: who wants a wishy-washy surgeon? However, while this all works well and good in the military, we have left out a key component... the military does not leave its members bleeding in the field. They are taught to help each other, work as a team, and protect each other at all costs. As those of us in surgery know, this is almost never the case... you get yelled at or treated badly (rightly or wrongly) and no one says, "hey that sucks" or "I am sorry you are having a bad day", or as was pointed out by someone else, "is there anything wrong?" Humiliation is possible in part because we are kept and keep ourselves so separated.

I am sure people will disagree, but it really put a whole new perspective on my last 5 years.