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Zakaqel

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I took two biology courses (Intro to cell bio +Organismal biology) this semester and I hate every minute of it. I hate studying for the tests because so far university biology is just a memorization course which just involves tricky multiple choice questions. I also hate the lab section of the course; I hated every minute of dissecting cats, rats, worms, crabs, lobsters, insects, you name it. At the moment, I'm seriously reconsidering taking upper bio courses like micro and genetics.

I know that biology plays a huge role in medicine, but I still can’t stand having to know the anatomy of a flower and how round worms mate. Anyone have any comments?
 

metalhead1023

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I would say take a human anatomy class and if you hate that reconsider things.
 

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I agree with taking an anatomy course, but if you hate biology, you may want to reconsider Medicine. If you are okay with Chemistry, consider Pharmacy.
 
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jeffro1080

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dude animals suck. no pre-meds enjoys bio for zoology and what not, hell I know kids that hate it... take more human focused courses...
 

ChubbyChaser

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I took two biology courses (Intro to cell bio +Organismal biology) this semester and I hate every minute of it. I hate studying for the tests because so far university biology is just a memorization course which just involves tricky multiple choice questions. I also hate the lab section of the course; I hated every minute of dissecting cats, rats, worms, crabs, lobsters, insects, you name it. At the moment, I'm seriously reconsidering taking upper bio courses like micro and genetics.

I know that biology plays a huge role in medicine, but I still can’t stand having to know the anatomy of a flower and how round worms mate. Anyone have any comments?
Go talk to Current medical students about that highlighted portion.
 

Zakaqel

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Although I think I wouldn't mind taking anatomy because of its complexity and interesting content...all the memorization is bound to kill me. A friend of mine once showed me his A&P textbook...it was horrific...
 

Auron

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Although I think I wouldn't mind taking anatomy because of its complexity and interesting content...all the memorization is bound to kill me. A friend of mine once showed me his A&P textbook...it was horrific...

lets hope he doesn't want to go to med school, cause it'll be a blood bath in comparison :laugh:
 

Zakaqel

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dude animals suck. no pre-meds enjoys bio for zoology and what not, hell I know kids that hate it... take more human focused courses...

Well, these two courses that I am currently taking are prereqs for all the other "human-based" biologies..
 

Zakaqel

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Wait, so if biology courses just consist of memorization and badly worded questions, shouldn't it be considered an art? Wouldn't it have more in common with, let's say history, than chemistry or physics? :p Imagine, al those pre-meds graduating with B.A. degrees in biology....
 

Auron

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Wait, so if biology courses just consist of memorization and badly worded questions, shouldn't it be considered an art? Wouldn't it have more in common with, let's say history, than chemistry or physics? :p Imagine, al those pre-meds graduating with B.A. degrees in biology....

and that is why young grasshopper, it is called the Art and Science of Medicine.

(J/K, don't go running to your little pre-med friends about that)
 

TheRealMD

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You really need to understand why you hate biology. If you hate it because of the memorization involved, then you have a tough road ahead. If you hate it because most biology is useless in real world applications, then hopefully med school will be better for you.
 
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Depends. I hate plant bio. Mammalian bio....yeah you should be interested in that. Also genetics and things of that nature.
 

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While the topics get better (no worms, flowers, etc), you're going to be stuck with memorization and horrible multiple choice questions for a very long time.

Agreed. If you don't like memorization, tricky multiple choice questions and dissecting things/knowing anatomy, then med school is a really really bad career path. The volume of material you will be expected to know in med school is mind boggling. The tests are almost all multiple choice, and far more convoluted than most of the things you'd be likely to come across in undergrad. The licensing and shelf exams are all multiple choice. And you start out first year dissection a human in anatomy. Later on you will deal with body specimens in pathology.And during rotations you will be involved in surgeries where attendings will pimp you on anatomic structures. You won't need to know any specific material you are learning in biology once you pass the MCAT. But human anatomy and other mamallian anatomy isn't all that different. If you hate one, you probably won't be a bigger fan of its not so distant cousin. I don't see any reason to take things like micro in undergrad (there is plenty of time for that in med school), but it definitely is a med school course and fairly high yield for licensing exams and rotations, so if you think you'd hate that too, that is yet another block of med school you won't enjoy. It's not sounding like this is the career path for you, not because biology has any bearing on med school, but because the things you dislike about bio are things you probably will dislike about med school.
 

Zakaqel

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I like biology related topics…it’s sort of interesting and all when you are watching TV, but I hate the irrelevance of many subjects which are taught. I’ve always been a physics/math/chemistry type of guy. I can see that knowing everything (which will require a lot of memorization), is an essential part of being a doctor because not knowing something can be detrimental, but I hate the insistence of biology on making everything so narrowly based on broad terminology and such.
 

Bond8204

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If you hate it because most biology is useless in real world applications, then hopefully med school will be better for you.

The first two years of med school you're not going to get much application either. I'd actually take a physiology course to measure your interest. If you still hate biology after taking a human physiology course, medicine is almost unquestionably not for you.
 

Law2Doc

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I like biology related topics…it's sort of interesting and all when you are watching TV, but I hate the irrelevance of many subjects which are taught. I've always been a physics/math/chemistry type of guy. I can see that knowing everything (which will require a lot of memorization), is an essential part of being a doctor because not knowing something can be detrimental, but I hate the insistence of biology on making everything so narrowly based on broad terminology and such.

You will have to learn a ton of irrelevant things in med school. As mentioned in the post above, the immediate application of a lot of the subjects is going to be lacking, but the need to learn the info won't be any less. A lot of undergrads seem to think that suddenly everything in med school will be interesting because they will see practical use of it, or think that everything you learn can save lives. But that is frequently not the case. In fact, schools have been working hard to add clinical correlations and PBL to curricula to keep the attention of the many students who have a hard time getting excited about material they don't see as immediately related to their future careers. Which I think is unfortunate. Part of medicine is becoming a life-long learner. This isn't a trade school where you learn the basics of how to do your job and then you are set. If you aren't excited to learn a lot about topics you likely will never use, med school eill be a lot harder. A healthy curiosity and eagerness to learn goes a long way.
 

Zakaqel

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I agree with taking an anatomy course, but if you hate biology, you may want to reconsider Medicine. If you are okay with Chemistry, consider Pharmacy.

Pharmacy is really boring...I wouldn't want to work at Rite Aid or Walgreens for the rest of my life. There's nowhere you can go unless you go into research or something. Wow, $100,000+ for forcing your pharm techs to give people pills
 

jeffro1080

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Well, these two courses that I am currently taking are prereqs for all the other "human-based" biologies..

I guess you're beat then...

Seriously though, just do what you have to do. Most bio courses are a joke anyways...
 
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SaveThisLabRat

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Pharmacy is really boring...I wouldn't want to work at Rite Aid or Walgreens for the rest of my life. There's nowhere you can go unless you go into research or something. Wow, $100,000+ for forcing your pharm techs to give people pills
Omg, I just got really offended.
 

Zakaqel

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Omg, I just got really offended.

I was just kidding. My friend’s sister is a pharmacist...she told me you can do interesting things sometimes...ummmm....like telling the guy with athlete’s foot which type of cream to use
JK
 

orrghead16

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Wow, $100,000+ for forcing your pharm techs to give people pills

Drugs are big money. Without research for novel drugs, doctors would be SOL on a lot of cases. You should count your pennies before you find out how much MDs are the ones that force people to take pills, the pharmacists design and create them.

Your just not cut for medicine if you have that kind of outlook.
 

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While the topics get better (no worms, flowers, etc), you're going to be stuck with memorization and horrible multiple choice questions for a very long time.

I hate bio. The thing is intro bio classes are alot of USELESS memorization, Eventually you get into stuff and are like "crap. I NEED to know this" and for me at least I start to enjoy it because I know I need to. Look at my Genetics this semester. Test that focused mostly on no human things: 85% Test on Molecular Genetics: 98%. If you feel it applies you learn it without pain.
 

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I believe if you hate anatomy, don't consider surgery. However, if you do hate biology in terms of the content, then, you should not consider medicine because that's what the field is mostly about.
 

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I believe if you hate anatomy, don't consider surgery. However, if you do hate biology in terms of the content, then, you should not consider medicine because that's what the field is mostly about.

Nothing factual that you learn in the intro college bio courses is going to be critically useful in med school. This is something you take because it's a prereq, not because the content is relevant to the future. I actually know a couple of people from prior generations who got into med school without ever taking biology (prereqs were more flexible then), and did quite well, never missed it. But the process (memorizing, taking multiple choice tests, dissecting) is certainly a wimpy prelude to things to come. So if, like OP, you find those aspects of bio unappealing, I wouldn't expect to love med school.
 

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It's probably the memorization of things you're not interested in that you hate. In med school you'll learn a lot of things that ARE relevant to medicine like anatomy, neuroscience, pharmacology (yuck). I can't stand bio, although you will have to deal with lots of biology in medicine at least it's somewhat interesting.

I hate that med/dental schools make you take courses like bio, chem, physics (even calculus) that you don't even have to learn for medicine. Ugh.
 

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I've always been a physics/math/chemistry type of guy. I can see that knowing everything (which will require a lot of memorization), is an essential part of being a doctor because not knowing something can be detrimental, but I hate the insistence of biology on making everything so narrowly based on broad terminology and such.

You should read Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! Feynman expresses some great criticisms of how we teach biology.

Edit: Basically, why do we spend entire courses memorizing things we can look up in few seconds? I think biologists could learn a lot from physicists pedagogically!

I think there are some beginnings of teaching biology better in this country, but as a whole, it is such a disaster to teach biology as memorization.
 
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It's probably the memorization of things you're not interested in that you hate. In med school you'll learn a lot of things that ARE relevant to medicine like anatomy, neuroscience, pharmacology (yuck). I can't stand bio, although you will have to deal with lots of biology in medicine at least it's somewhat interesting.

I hate that med/dental schools make you take courses like bio, chem, physics (even calculus) that you don't even have to learn for medicine. Ugh.

What's wrong with bio, physics, calc, etc... They're somewhat interesting, no? Maybe its just me...
 

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Although the plant stuff sucks, the human part is pretty cool.

And its not okay to hate biology because Medicine is a form of applied biology.
 
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Yes, it is ok to hate biology. I hate genetics, immunology, and neurobiology myself. :mad:
 

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I feel the pain. I hate the way biology courses are designed. While I loved the human anatomy part I hated having to learn the many different classification of every animal in the living planet and guess what...its always changing so its pointless anyways unless you want to be a zoologist. Also hate that every exam is just worded badly enough to put in the position of a B every single fing time. ugh
 
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I believe if you hate anatomy, don't consider surgery. However, if you do hate biology in terms of the content, then, you should not consider medicine because that's what the field is mostly about.

That's a myth. Plenty of surgeons hated anatomy or didn't do well in it. You do have to know and understand anatomy pretty well eventually to be a surgeon, but in a different way than gross anatomy.

As far as the original question, sure, why not? You go to medical school to become a doctor, not a biologist. Hell, hating lower-division biology doesn't even say anything about whether you should be a biologist. I despised my intro bio classes and ended up doing a PhD in biology. I'm not a big fan of the first year med school classes overall, especially due to the memorization, but most doctors don't spend their days memorizing lists of cytokines. If you're interested in practicing medicine and can get through the other crap, that's enough.
 

paradocs we are

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That's a myth. Plenty of surgeons hated anatomy or didn't do well in it. You do have to know and understand anatomy pretty well eventually to be a surgeon, but in a different way than gross anatomy.

As far as the original question, sure, why not? You go to medical school to become a doctor, not a biologist. Hell, hating lower-division biology doesn't even say anything about whether you should be a biologist. I despised my intro bio classes and ended up doing a PhD in biology. I'm not a big fan of the first year med school classes overall, especially due to the memorization, but most doctors don't spend their days memorizing lists of cytokines. If you're interested in practicing medicine and can get through the other crap, that's enough.

:thumbup: My thoughts exactly.
 

wally47

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I tried to read through everyone's post as to not repeat anyone.

SO here goes, I think everyone hates studying, except the occasional freak. Those of you who hate your science classes probably just hate studying for them, not the actual content. What sucks so much about taking organic, any plant course, or animal related biology course is that you realize that you most likely won't need to know any of that information in your career. Naturally your disdain grows as your waste away your precious "good years" study "useless" information.

Therefore, studying in medical shouldn't be as bad because you will be devoting your time to useful information.:thumbup:
 

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Yes it's okay. But it's not okay to hate learning. My .02.
 

Zyvox

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Pharmacy is really boring...I wouldn't want to work at Rite Aid or Walgreens for the rest of my life. There's nowhere you can go unless you go into research or something. Wow, $100,000+ for forcing your pharm techs to give people pills


...or something?

There are plenty of opportunities for pharmacists, especially with drug regulations and the FDA. Great salaries and stable careers. I had a book while ago from Pfizer with about forty different career paths and opportunities for pharmacists.
 

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When I started college as a freshman I enjoyed the biology classes. My thoughts and hate for biology started to grow as I learned more about a career as a scientist. I took a couple of small bio courses (nutrition, botany, and biotech) my sophomore year and didn't mind the nutrition and biotech courses, but I down right hated having to memorize the name of plants, the classification of plants, and on, and on, and on. I then spent a summer as an intern in a lab. I didn't mind working in the lab, but the way the scientists lived their life I wanted no part of. I want to be rewarded for my hard work. I don't want to work 10 hour days and the only thing I have to show for it is 3 PCR runs, a couple of gel runs, and a run to the sequencing plant. No!!!!! I want more out of my life. So then I went back to college my junior year to continue taking the biology and other science courses. I avoided every non human related biology course I could. I was lucky and could take all human biology related courses my junior year in college. The biology courses I took my junior year included genetics, human development, and genetics in society. I also took my biochem course. I hated every single second of my general chemistry and organic chemistry classes. I enjoyed the biochemistry class though.

Then came my senior year (finally done with college in 30 days f-ya). I lucked out and had the chance to take anatomy in the first semester. But this semester I'm taking zoology and I would rather fight in Iraq then have to memorize groups of animals, names of animals, where the heart is, how sexual reproduction occurs (I learned that in four classes already. for god's sake, teach something different), animal phyla, etc, etc, etc. I hate every second I spent my time in that zoology course. Every single classmate of mine in that zoology class hates it because nobody in the class wants to become a scientist (we all want to go into the medical field in some role, PA, MD, Pharmacist, Therapist, etc). We all spend our time bickering to each other about how bad we hate it. The only other bio course I'm taking this semester is immuno. I don't mind immuno. The material is really easy to me.

After my freshman year in college I learned how to study for biology courses and have found the rest of the classes to be boring and not all that interesting. I enjoyed writing the research papers on topics we chose. This was the time when I enjoyed reading and writing about science and medicine.

I got lucky and I got an Internet based job with an academic publishing company. I work from home for this position. I really enjoy the work. I edit science and medicine textbooks. I didn't even need a science degree for this job. All that was required was a B.S. degree and and a strong grasp of English. All I had to do was take an editing test. I was hired. My other job I'll be starting in a few weeks. This job is a healthcare recruiter. I make a base pay of $40k as a recruiter and $35k as an editor. My first year out of college I'll be making $75k (I can reach ~100k with commission). Guess what, none of the biology courses I took are related to what I do. Sure I recall what this word means when I'm editing book pages, but It doesn't matter at all. My job is to make sure the material is understandable and flows.

Biology degrees are not alone with the unelessnes of the mateiral in the real world. The majority of undergraduate degrees are useless in a material aspect. I've spoken to a lot of professionals in a lot of professions and the common theme is that you will learn what you need to know when you start your first career job. You won't really use anything you learned as a college student in your career.

I still plan on going into the medical field, but not right now. I want to get away from school for a year or two.

To the O.P. Yes, you can hate biology as much as you want. Bascially none of the material is relevant to being a doctor (no, you won't need to know how many carbons are in this molecule, how to name it, and how this reaction works....that is the job for the scientsits who make the drugs). If you enjoy reading medical journal articles, then you may not hate medical school material.
 

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A lot of biology sucks. I hate genetics. Hate, hate hate genetics.

But most doctors just need to know their anatomy and physiology.

Which I love. But genetics sucks.
 

Bond8204

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It's all a little whiney if you ask me. Taking the prereq's (minus second semester organic chemistry) were pretty much the easiest part of getting into med school, IMO.

I guess my point to the OP would be this: Yes you can get through medical school...and you can be a doctor...but if you hate memorization and biology that much, you better damn be sure you know why you're putting yourself through that kind of torture. For the record, there's a lot of bull**** in the actual practice of medicine as well...just look down to the internship thread.

There was a blog that was posted about a little bit on the DO thread called medschoolhell. it was basically about somebody who got through medical school but was miserable the entire time and ended up not going into it. He whined a lot on his blog, as a matter of fact.

There's a difference between can and should. If you're still feeling this way a few more science courses in, I'd give that should a cold, hard look.
 

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I came across an old high school friend on the Internet a couple of weeks ago. I was stunned and sad at the same time, to hear how successful my old high school friend has become compared to me.

I graduated valedictorian of our high school class. I graduated college with a 3.98 cGPA in physiology. I got accepted to a top tier medical school in the Midwest. I went into 150k dollars of debt while in medical school and had 30k dollars of debt from undergraduate school. As a resident, I still have 180k dollars of educational debt to pay off. Here I am barley making over 40k dollars and will probably only make 135k dollars a year as a physician.

My high school friend was in the bottom 50% of our graduating class (he admitted it). He took two years of between high school and college. He said he graduated college in three years with a biology degree with 50k dollars of educational debt. He said he took 1 year off between getting his masters degree and undergraduate school and worked 4 jobs and made 200k dollars (all jobs paid 50k dollars a year post tax-he said he worked 1 job like a normal person does and worked 3 jobs at home during the second shift time of day) in that year and paid for his masters degree in cash. He said he then got a full-time job after getting his masters degree and was hired for a salary of 80k dollars a year. He said he still works two at-home jobs (which are his businesses). Between his full-time day job and his two side businesses he said he made 400k dollars last year. As his business keeps growing, he will be making a million dollars a year while I will be paying off debt for a long time and working crazy hours. My friend said he usually works 60 to 70 hours a week (from 6:00am until 7:00 pm) and never works a single second on the weekends

This just goes to show you that just being smarter then people does not mean you are going to make more money then others. It's all about being creative.

No, I'm happy with being a doctor. This is what I have wanted to do. I was just pointing out that there are so many different ways a person can make it big in this country and you don't have to to be the top student to make it big. Yes I might make more then 135k a year (but not much more then that). And yes, society does way how much you make a year in dollars for how sucesful you are as a person. I got surprised by this because I was told at my 10 year high school reunion that I have become the mose sucesful person in our high school graduating class. Looks like that was not the truth.


Then came my senior year (finally done with college in 30 days f-ya). I lucked out and had the chance to take anatomy in the first semester. But this semester I'm taking zoology and I would rather fight in Iraq then have to memorize groups of animals, names of animals, where the heart is, how sexual reproduction occurs (I learned that in four classes already. for god's sake, teach something different), animal phyla, etc, etc, etc. I hate every second I spent my time in that zoology course. Every single classmate of mine in that zoology class hates it because nobody in the class wants to become a scientist (we all want to go into the medical field in some role, PA, MD, Pharmacist, Therapist, etc). We all spend our time bickering to each other about how bad we hate it. The only other bio course I'm taking this semester is immuno. I don't mind immuno. The material is really easy to me.

Wisconsindoctor, you are the first person I know who decided to go back to get his undergrad degree while serving his residency. Congratulations!

You may want to hire a proofreader to check the pages you edit.
 

ZagDoc

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:eek: I hated those classes, primarily because they are so hard and not relevant to medicine (little bit of bio).

Hate to break it to you, but they are all relevant to medicine in their own ways. No way you'll ever understand an ECG or cell membrane conductance without physics. No way you'll ever understand drug dosing without a basic understanding of calc. No way you'll understand metabolism or acid-base without organic and analytical chemistry. The majority of questions on the boards involve cell bio, physiology, molecular bio, etc.

Just because people say you don't use prereq classes in medical school doesn't mean the material isn't used as a foundation for many different concepts. You don't see questions testing your knowledge of the same facts, but you need to know it if you don't plan on getting lost.

But you don't have to love plants or animals. That's nice. Though some professors love using comparative anatomy/physiology to reinforce points, and its nice if you know what they're talking about.
 

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I took two biology courses (Intro to cell bio +Organismal biology) this semester and I hate every minute of it. I hate studying for the tests because so far university biology is just a memorization course which just involves tricky multiple choice questions. I also hate the lab section of the course; I hated every minute of dissecting cats, rats, worms, crabs, lobsters, insects, you name it. At the moment, I'm seriously reconsidering taking upper bio courses like micro and genetics.

I know that biology plays a huge role in medicine, but I still can’t stand having to know the anatomy of a flower and how round worms mate. Anyone have any comments?

Well, I started off as a Bio major and I thought the "Biology of Animals" class I took was miserable. There were so many days I came out of lab smelling like the dead shark I was dissecting. But then I took a Microbiology class the next semester, and I really enjoyed it, so I switched to that. I thought Genetics was a cool class too, so I wouldn't give up on Bio yet.

I also don't enjoy memorizing things in general, and so Anatomy was not my favorite med school class. But, not all of medical school is memorization. And clinical medicine is thankfully quite different from studying all of the basic science stuff.

But yeah, you do have to memorize a fair amount of things, and you spend months stinking like the Anatomy lab in med school. So if you absolutely can't stand those things, maybe you should reconsider. However, you will be learning about humans, which is much more interesting than flowers or worms, IMHO.
 

UFGatorMed

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General radiology doesn't involve disection or surgery. An MD or DO is a broad profession with lots of options.
 

Quadratic

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Wisconsindoctor, you are the first person I know who decided to go back to get his undergrad degree while serving his residency. Congratulations!

So how long do you think it will be before his "brother" logs back on and says that it wasn't "him" that wrote that post?
 
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