is it POSSIBLE for there to be an Applicant more qualified for MD PhD then MD

[Sonya]

What I am asking, is COULD there be an applicant who would decrease his chance of admission by not applying MD PhD (and do you think I may be one).

I know the rules say that they consider you for MD and ONLY if you qualify for MD do they think about you for MD PhD... but in practice could your MD PhD qualifications may be so good, they'll take you in for MD anyway?

I asked my PI about this. He said for WashU, it's probably not possible, bc they're MD PhD is top in the nation and they have plenty of choices. But he didn't know anythign about other schools.

I also recognize it is stupid to base your descision on whether to do MD PHD on what schools you get into.

oh and summary of my application is: 3.8 GPA, 32 VR (12 PS, 11 BS, 9VR), 3 years u. grad research (2nd authour in a good journal), 2 years full time research by time of matriculation after u. Grad in neuroscience (possible 1st author in low ranking journal), BioE major at WashU. several years of various hospital/service/counseling/tutoring/clubs ECs. (they aren't that sparsed, I've done each for a fair amount of time).
I've (correctly) indicated interest in research.

Just want your opinions.

I'm going to try to ignore anyone who flames me for postings this (I always get flamed for posting stats for some reason....)

Thanks,
sonya

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Sonya I asked my PI about this. He said for WashU, it's probably not possible, bc they're MD PhD is top in the nation

Tops in the nation, as in #1? No.

Top 5? Yes.

 

[idq1i]

What I am asking, is COULD there be an applicant who would decrease his chance of admission by not applying MD PhD (and do you think I may be one).

That makes no sense

I know the rules say that they consider you for MD and ONLY if you qualify for MD do they think about you for MD PhD... but in practice could your MD PhD qualifications may be so good, they'll take you in for MD anyway?

Nothing ever "gets thrown in." You have to qualify for both. MD and PhD are separate programs, even though you are doing them sequentially

 

[Sonya]

Originally posted by MacGyver
Tops in the nation, as in #1? No.

Top 5? Yes.

He's at Washu, so he likes to think they are good. And they are large. They are definetly the best, maybe not ranked best (ok seco nd best to duke). They are #1 in selectivity. I don 't really care wether they are 1 or 3 or 5 or what not.

Of course you have to decently Q UALIFY for both... but they' re are a ton of applicants that would be good enough for a school... and they need to decide among several stellar applicants. If the PhD program really wants you, then you may get in?

So you're saying you really honestly believe thedescision is completely independent with the two parts of teh school not talking to each other?

 

[ready]

I don't really understand what you're asking...

Are you applying for MD or MD/PhD?
Which do you want to apply to?

If you're asking are some schools discouraged by an applicants interest in research the answer is yes. Some schools (not Wash U or any research institution) have a heavy interest in gen practice and will avoid students who seem to have other aspirations (IE research academic med). Overall, this is only at really small state schools with a primary mission of producing prim care physicians.

Most research intensive med schools (IE Duke, Hopkins, Wash U, Harvard) require that even their "MD only" applicants have some research experience.

Or are you asking: "Can I increase my chances of getting into med school by applying MD/PhD instead of MD?" I'm not so sure about this. MD/PhD programs are extremely competitive and you may end up hurting your chances of getting in at all. On the other hand, you may benefit from the extra attention you will receive as a MD/PhD applicant (the app pool is smaller so more individual attention is given to each application). Kinda seems like a toss up to me. Maybe the more important questions is: DO YOU WANT TO DO THE MD/PhD?
If you answer is no or maybe then you really shouldn't bother. The MD/PhD requires a significant investment of time and a great deal of sacrifice. In my opinion should only be pursued if you really want it.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

Like most everyone else, I'm not really sure what you're asking, but if you are better qualified for the PhD part than the MD part, you could just do a PhD. It seems that you are asking whether your PhD qualifications could be so astounding as to get you into an MD/PhD program even if your MD qualifications aren't that great. The answer is no. Those programs are very competitive and they don't need to make accomodations like that to fill their spaces. It sounds like you are more interested in research, anyway--why not just apply PhD?

 

[doepug]

What do YOU want to do?

I think it would be possible for you to get into an MD or an MD/PhD program somewhere, based only on what little you have posted. The "competition" for admission to an MD program is very different than the applicant pool for MD/PhDs. The first step is to decide where your own interests and aspirations lie.

As previous posters have mentioned, plenty of MD students at "top" schools have extensive research experience. Indeed, many of us are on track to become academic physicians. The MD/PhD route is most appropriate for someone with well-defined interests in a particular field. Trust me, no self-respecting MSTP will admit a student without clearly defined research interests. Should you choose this path, no program would allow you the time or funding to wander aimlessly through research labs until you find something you enjoy. A prerequisite for admission to an MD/PhD program is a demonstrated commitment to your specific field of interest. With that in mind, how different is your current research from what you did in college? Also, how devoted and longstanding is your commitment to these projects? Are you willing to spend the rest of your career studying this field?

What concerns me about your suitability for either program is your ability to express yourself in writing. Despite asking a fairly simple question, your post borders on being incomprehensible. Once you've made the MD vs MD/PhD decision, I'd recommend that you have your personal statement thoroughly edited by a professional -- if you're still at Wash U, perhaps you could drop by the Writing Center?

Hope this helps,
doepug (MS IV, Johns Hopkins)

 

[Neuronix]

To answer the question asked by the thread title. I would say, no. Especially if you have a bit of clinical experience thrown in. The numbers to get into MD/PhD are higher, but that only looks better on an MD app. The research experience also looks great on an MD app, and the top schools are happy to produce research-oriented physicians.

The interviews are slightly different, but it's really about being thoughtful and knowing how to interview. The MD/PhD interviews are about "Why MD/PhD? What kind of researcher do you want to be?", whereas the MD interviews give all those weird out there questions about fixing the healthcare system and all that.

So Sonya, if you want to do MD/PhD, apply for it. If not, apply MD only. I think your app is strong enough that you're not going to lose either way.

 

[Sonya]

Hi,

I am not asking this to decide whether I want to do MD PhD. I do not want to pursue MD PhD because 1. I do not think my interest is strong enough to commit to 4 years of research. 2. I don't yet know (for sure) where I want to be in the future in terms of research or specialties (and I also think my research interest will depend on the specialty i choose).

Obviously, i'm fairly qualified for research. I've had enough people insist I should do MD PhD, but i get really easily bored with research. Thus, don't think i'm ready to commit a career to it.

I've already turned in my PS a while ago. I did have some writing professors look at it. Also, I put much more efforts into the PS then I put into a post on SDN. But, i'm sorry if it was difficult for you to understand.

Yes, i was asking if applying MD PhD could increase my chance of admission into medical school.

interesting comments though, doepug. I had the impression that anyone half-way interested in research went into MD PhD (That's the impression I get from classmates, and even some professors at WashU).

 

[Vader]

The question you are asking indicates to me that you are looking to use MD/PhD admissions as a means to increase your chances of medical school admission. This is clearly not acceptable and any interviewer will quickly pick up on your lack of enthusiasm for the MD/PhD pathway.

In your case, with no interest in applying MD/PhD, the path is clear: apply MD. The MD/PhD pathway is reserved for those with a strong interest in and commitment to basic biomedical research, or accepted alternative research fields (i.e. anthropology, epidemiology, etc). The application process is extremely competitive and only a small number of students are accepted into the programs. Therefore, it would be to your advantage and also considerate to others (by not taking spots, wasting the admissions committee's and interviewers' valuable time, etc) to apply MD.

Hope this helps.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

I have heard of people who apply MD and later decide to add the PhD while they're there. It's not common, though, and they are less likely to get funding. It sounds like you should definitely NOT apply MD/PhD, but your research background will certainly be a plus for the MD-only program at any "research" school. Also, it sounds like you are more interested in clinical research than basic-science. You do not need a PhD to be successful in clinical research. Good luck.