Is it possible to go straight into residency right after dental school (HPSP)?

[Nighthawk23]

Hello everyone, I am a D1 HPSP recipient and I was curious about the process of getting into residency right after dental school.

I understand that there is a military specialty but I am also interested in getting into a specialty that's provided at the school.

Is it possible to push back the required service while I am in the specialty training at a dental school?

Thanks!

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[knewstance]

You would either need to do your specialty training with the military or do your specialty training after your 4 years of active duty payback.

Usually, the most desirable way for HPSP'ers to do specialty training with the military is right out of dental school. That way you are getting O3+ pay during your residency, your residency is free, and then you still only pay back 4 years of active duty.

The other popular option is to just do the 4 years of payback as a general dentist for the military and then use the post-GI bill to pay for your specialist residency after you've finished your military contract.

 

[SirBrotherJam]

You can apply for "Out service" or more commonly "In service" residency as a D4 or even when you are in the military paying back your obligation. You will not have a very high chance of getting the "out service" training due to reduced billets and money (cheaper for the military to train their own residents). The type of residency is also heavily weighted. If you want to do OMS, where the military is hurting on manning, you would have a much better chance then Ortho, Endo, etc. where they are manned close to or over 100% already. Using OMS as an example, if you apply "in service" and get in right out of dental school (happens much more now then it did in the past) you will do your residency and then pay back your HPSP and residency time concurrently. A freaking awesome deal! If you choose to do OMS at a civilian program right after dental school you have the 4 years of HPSP and then 4-6 years of OMS payback. You would be in for 8+ years before you could be considered for a retention bonus or separating. Not so great. Basically you need the military's blessing to push the obligation back if you want them to pay or if you are going to flip the bill. They own you after you signed the dotted line . Reach out to your detailer if you want a more detailed answer. If you are Navy, I can help direct you a bit if you PM me.

 

[Nighthawk23]

Thank you sooooo much!! your comments were very helpful @knewstance @SirBrotherJam

Just one more question. So to my understanding, for the out-service residency, the extra mandatory service comes in when I receive the military financial assistance for my residency. Is that correct?

This may sound absurd but, if that's correct, is it possible to go into a school residency without accepting the military assistance and just serve the 4 years HPSP obligation once after my residency training?

So, after dental school -> school residency (no military financial assistance) -> serve HPSP obligation.

 

[UNCafDDS]

Thank you sooooo much!! your comments were very helpful @knewstance @SirBrotherJam

Just one more question. So to my understanding, for the out-service residency, the extra mandatory service comes in when I receive the military financial assistance for my residency. Is that correct?

This may sound absurd but, if that's correct, is it possible to go into a school residency without accepting the military assistance and just serve the 4 years HPSP obligation once after my residency training?

So, after dental school -> school residency (no military financial assistance) -> serve HPSP obligation.

Great question @Nighthawk23 !

I am 4-yr AF HPSP and I do not know the answer to this. Does anybody else know? @SirBrotherJam or @knewstance ?

 

[SirBrotherJam]

is it possible to go into a school residency without accepting the military assistance and just serve the 4 years HPSP obligation once after my residency training?

Truthfully, I am not sure and this would be a GREAT question for the medical/dental recruiter. I do know that it would definitely have to be OKed by at least the detailer (person who determines where you get stationed) and if it is possible, inform them as soon as you can. They are expecting you after dental school and if that gets changed, it can make their job more challenging. The closest scenario that I have seen are the following: dentist going straight into residency getting "Out service" or FAP (financial assistance program) and then serving with increased time, joining after residency and taking a sign on bonus correlating to your specialty to help with loans (out for you since your HPSP), or doing the conventional "In Service" military residency program with corresponding payback. If you do find an answer, I would be interested in what they say.

I will say that no matter the school, I don't think there is any bad accredited program out there so don't put all your eggs into getting that school. You might end up disappointed. Also, the military has some good programs too! Explore all your options.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

What specialty? Trying to get into anything other than OMFS right out of school is an extreme long shot. You’ll be competing against people who have great stats AND have put in active duty time to “earn” the chance to specialize. Not to mention the military seems to be reducing the number of specialists, aside from OMFS.

Trying to avoid any further service obligation like you are screams you’re trying to get out ASAP. Definitely can’t look good from the perspective of the selection board.

Either plan on specializing through the military and making it a career, or plan on getting out after your payback and using the GI Bill to specialize.

Big Hoss

 

[UNCafDDS]

What specialty? Trying to get into anything other than OMFS right out of school is an extreme long shot. You’ll be competing against people who have great stats AND have put in active duty time to “earn” the chance to specialize. Not to mention the military seems to be reducing the number of specialists, aside from OMFS.

Trying to avoid any further service obligation like you are screams you’re trying to get out ASAP. Definitely can’t look good from the perspective of the selection board.

Either plan on specializing through the military and making it a career, or plan on getting out after your payback and using the GI Bill to specialize.

Big Hoss

Thank you @Big Time Hoosier. I am not sure about @Nighthawk23, but I am looking at OMFS. The first bolded is exactly what I was thinking... it can't look to good when you are asking the military (AF for me) to give you something (time), and providing nothing in return.

The second bolded part.... did you use/are you using the GI Bill? Is the GI Bill available to those who served in all branches? I am AF 4-year HPSP. I am still learning (& learning) about all of these details. I am excited about serving in the AF, and the 4-yr military OMFS programs will likely be a good fit, if I am fortunate enough to have that chance. But I would like to know if there is any reason to shoot for the 6-yr outside of the AF. By reason, I mean would I even be permitted to do so while in the AF.

As always, thanks to @Big Time Hoosier and everyone else who helps out when people have questions.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Thank you @Big Time Hoosier. I am not sure about @Nighthawk23, but I am looking at OMFS. The first bolded is exactly what I was thinking... it can't look to good when you are asking the military (AF for me) to give you something (time), and providing nothing in return.

The second bolded part.... did you use/are you using the GI Bill? Is the GI Bill available to those who served in all branches? I am AF 4-year HPSP. I am still learning (& learning) about all of these details. I am excited about serving in the AF, and the 4-yr military OMFS programs will likely be a good fit, if I am fortunate enough to have that chance. But I would like to know if there is any reason to shoot for the 6-yr outside of the AF. By reason, I mean would I even be permitted to do so while in the AF.

As always, thanks to @Big Time Hoosier and everyone else who helps out when people have questions.

I am currently using the GI Bill for my peds residency. The GI Bill offers up to 36 months of benefits to all honorably discharged veterans. If you’re set on OMFS, I’d personally apply to the military’s programs to start right after school. They’re good programs.

Big Hoss

 

[schmoob]

Is it possible to push back the required service while I am in the specialty training at a dental school?

Yes, it’s called NADDS. It’s a deferment, you can do the residency but it’s on your own dime, and you won’t receive any stipend or pay. Your active service will begin upon completion of your training.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Yes, it’s called NADDS. It’s a deferment, you can do the residency but it’s on your own dime, and you won’t receive any stipend or pay. Your active service will begin upon completion of your training.

I tried to do that with peds and the Navy wasn’t having it.

Big Hoss

 

[SirBrotherJam]

Yes, it’s called NADDS. It’s a deferment, you can do the residency but it’s on your own dime, and you won’t receive any stipend or pay. Your active service will begin upon completion of your training.

Just serve, get the GI bill then go for free. Doesn't make sense to do it that way....

The NADDS program allows graduated medical students or medical officers the option to defer the fulfillment of their active duty obligation for medical school in order to receive graduate residency education in a critical shortage specialty in the civilian sector. While in the NADDS program, medical officers are in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) and receive no benefits. A NADDS resident receives pay and compensation from the civilian educational facility, not the Navy. Upon completion of the authorized residency training, or upon voluntary or involuntary termination, the officer is recalled to active duty to complete the deferred period of active duty obligation or for 2 years, whichever is longer.

Given the current situation I am with @Big Time Hoosier. Be smart man and play the system right!

 

[Nighthawk23]

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments!

@Big Time Hoosier I totally agree with you that the board will select people who are willing to stay and serve in the military for a long period of time, not those who are just trying to get out of it ASAP.

I have been in the Army for 4 years, and so far I love the Army. I love the people and the environment that makes you feel like you are part of a family. I'm still learning about the process and I was just looking to see and making sure that I am aware of all the options out there, so when it comes to applying for specialty whether, at the school or the military, I will have an idea of what I will be getting into and how my future would look like. And I personally haven't gone through the officer side myself, so I don't know how it'll be like for me coming from the enlisted side.

If it fits me, great! and I will look into specializing through the military and staying in.

I didn't know that GI Bill covers education higher than the master's degree. That's fortunate to hear and I'll definitely look into that.

 

[Nighthawk23]

Yes, it’s called NADDS. It’s a deferment, you can do the residency but it’s on your own dime, and you won’t receive any stipend or pay. Your active service will begin upon completion of your training.

Oh wow, I wonder if there is a similar program that's also offered in the Army. But thank you so much!

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Thank you all for your thoughtful comments!

@Big Time Hoosier I totally agree with you that the board will select people who are willing to stay and serve in the military for a long period of time, not those who are just trying to get out of it ASAP.

I have been in the Army for 4 years, and so far I love the Army. I love the people and the environment that makes you feel like you are part of a family. I'm still learning about the process and I was just looking to see and making sure that I am aware of all the options out there, so when it comes to applying for specialty whether, at the school or the military, I will have an idea of what I will be getting into and how my future would look like. And I personally haven't gone through the officer side myself, so I don't know how it'll be like for me coming from the enlisted side.

If it fits me, great! and I will look into specializing through the military and staying in.

I didn't know that GI Bill covers education higher than the master's degree. That's fortunate to hear and I'll definitely look into that.

If you already have time in service, why on earth would you want to do a residency where your time won’t count towards retirement? By the time you’ll be done paying back the HPSP, you’ll be almost half way to retirement.

Big Hoss

 

[Lankers]

If you have hopes of doing OMS right out of school would there be time before the start of the residency to complete BOLC?

 

[schmoob]

If you have hopes of doing OMS right out of school would there be time before the start of the residency to complete BOLC?

No. You will do a snowbird year first.

 

[2thDoc11]

What happens if you don’t land the HPSP scholarship but you decide you want to go the military route and would also like to specialize? Still have to go through the usual boot camp and then you end up being a GP for them?

 

[schmoob]

What happens if you don’t land the HPSP scholarship but you decide you want to go the military route and would also like to specialize? Still have to go through the usual boot camp and then you end up being a GP for them?

You would go the Direct Accession route, which can be very competitive. I don’t know of anyone who went through direct accession and specialized right away, you would likely need to complete your first duty station.
Boot camp is strictly for enlisted. As far as Navy you go through ODS which is easier.

 

[2thDoc11]

You would go the Direct Accession route, which can be very competitive. I don’t know of anyone who went through direct accession and specialized right away, you would likely need to complete your first duty station.
Boot camp is strictly for enlisted. As far as Navy you go through ODS which is easier.

Oh okay! I heard that you go through boot camp if you don’t initially start through the scholarship. So basically if you do get HPSP, you apply to the specialty immediately after dental school if you choose to, otherwise you’ll probably be a general practitioner for the military for four years before applying to a residency?

 

[SirBrotherJam]

Oh okay! I heard that you go through boot camp if you don’t initially start through the scholarship. So basically if you do get HPSP, you apply to the specialty immediately after dental school if you choose to, otherwise you’ll probably be a general practitioner for the military for four years before applying to a residency?

ODS: Officer Development School is about 5 weeks long and in Rhode Island. Very informative and pretty straight forward. Recommend going after school as they throw A LOT of information and you will forget if not using it.
HPSP route: ODS before/during/after graduation with stipend and school paid for (HSCP is a little different), still has 20k sign on bonus for some stupid reason (like paying for overpriced dental school isn't enough lol).
Direct accession: ODS after graduation and usually 150K(though that may change as numbers have been changing a lot lately) sign on bonus to help with loans but paid over time not one bulk amount I believe. Up to 300k if specialist and want to join, but #s are cutting back and if not an oral surgeon or a needed skill probably be very hard to get.
HSCP route: same ODS as HPSP and paid as E-6/E-7(if conditions met) during school to offset the cost and time is put towards retirement. Usually still have loans, but if you were prior it is very nice towards retirement.

If you apply to specialize, there are some options as mentioned above, but not really beneficial financially. Using the Navy as an example, you would enter making 25K instead of 20K for just being a specialist instead of genden and maybe 6k more if board certified, but that is it until you pay back your time. After that you can apply for retention bonuses and start increasing your salary to "try" and be competitive with the civilian sector. And you have loans to deal with because you deferred.

The only smart move with the military and specializing right after school would be an "in service"/military trained OMFS. That way you could serve your HPSP and residency training concurrently. Complete your residency, be debt free, and a board certified oral surgeon after a mere 8 years of servitude. Leave and make a killing elsewhere. Drawback would be trauma training (ironic I know), but there are plenty of threads on that kinda stuff.

You can apply to a military residency anytime during your payback, but best to have an operational tour before doing so which puts you 2-3 years in. If you know your are getting out you can apply to civilian programs. Just need to make sure you have paid your obligated service time BEFORE your residency starts. Military residencies, this timing issue for obvious reasons, doesn't apply.

For all else, just do your time. If you love it stay and serve for a greater cause with a nice retirement package OR peace out take the GI Bill and specialize for next to nothing in what you want to do.

Lastly, as a resident in the military you will be the highest paid residents.... afterwards you will get smoked when compared to outsiders.

I really feel like this conversation is going in circles.

 

[Lankers]

No. You will do a snowbird year first.

Is that snowbird usually unaccompanied?

 

[knewstance]

Is that snowbird usually unaccompanied?

From what I have seen, no. Usually, I see people stationed as a general dentist at the location of the residency until it starts.

 

[ALH512]

@SirBrotherJam @Big Time Hoosier

Hi! Currently considering the HPSP - do you guys have any insight on how difficult it is to match into a civilian residency program with the GI-bill? That's the path I'd like to take, but I'm not so sure how "safe" it would be to apply to ortho/endo/omfs (whatever specialty I end up liking) 4 years out of school. Not sure if it would be a severe detriment to your application strength, essentially. Would programs even consider a CBSE score 4-5 years out of date?

I'm not super invested in the idea of serving for 8 years to pay back HPSP + OMFS residency, and the recruiter is being very unclear on the exact details of years in service.

Unsure if this matters, but I'll be attending Columbia CDM, which I assume will help the match process a bit.

 

[lol105]

@SirBrotherJam @Big Time Hoosier

Hi! Currently considering the HPSP - do you guys have any insight on how difficult it is to match into a civilian residency program with the GI-bill? That's the path I'd like to take, but I'm not so sure how "safe" it would be to apply to ortho/endo/omfs (whatever specialty I end up liking) 4 years out of school. Not sure if it would be a severe detriment to your application strength, essentially. Would programs even consider a CBSE score 4-5 years out of date?

I'm not super invested in the idea of serving for 8 years to pay back HPSP + OMFS residency, and the recruiter is being very unclear on the exact details of years in service.

Unsure if this matters, but I'll be attending Columbia CDM, which I assume will help the match process a bit.I

I know so many people (including myself) who have matched into civilian residencies (endo, perio, pros, ortho) using GI bill AFTER HPSP service obligations are completed. I think matching into a residency program has nothing to do with GI bill....

You cannot be an active duty service member and attend civilian residencies (unless you applied to a military program while in service, get picked for a residency spot AND THEN you were given an option to train with an assigned civilian program - which happens rarely these days).

As for OMFS, I personally do not know anyone who decided to attend civilian program 3-4 years out of school. But I do know at least 4 people who accepted military OMFS training 3-4 years after graduation....

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

@SirBrotherJam @Big Time Hoosier

Hi! Currently considering the HPSP - do you guys have any insight on how difficult it is to match into a civilian residency program with the GI-bill? That's the path I'd like to take, but I'm not so sure how "safe" it would be to apply to ortho/endo/omfs (whatever specialty I end up liking) 4 years out of school. Not sure if it would be a severe detriment to your application strength, essentially. Would programs even consider a CBSE score 4-5 years out of date?

I'm not super invested in the idea of serving for 8 years to pay back HPSP + OMFS residency, and the recruiter is being very unclear on the exact details of years in service.

Unsure if this matters, but I'll be attending Columbia CDM, which I assume will help the match process a bit.

OMFS may prefer to see a more current CBSE, that said I know someone who Matched after the Navy with a 4 or 5 year old score.

That said, if you’re starting school this summer it’s way to late now to apply for the 4 year HPSP. That should have been happening at the same time you were applying to dental school. There are a lot fewer 3 year scholarships, so you might have missed the boat.

Big Hoss

 

[ALH512]

I know so many people (including myself) who have matched into civilian residencies (endo, perio, pros, ortho) using GI bill AFTER HPSP service obligations are completed. I think matching into a residency program has nothing to do with GI bill....

You cannot be an active duty service member and attend civilian residencies (unless you applied to a military program while in service, get picked for a residency spot AND THEN you were given an option to train with an assigned civilian program - which happens rarely these days).

As for OMFS, I personally do not know anyone who decided to attend civilian program 3-4 years out of school. But I do know at least 4 people who accepted military OMFS training 3-4 years after graduation....

Awesome, thank you! That was pretty much the information I was looking for. I was basically just hoping that a long educational gap was not a huge issue when applying to other dental residency programs.

OMFS may prefer to see a more current CBSE, that said I know someone who Matched after the Navy with a 4 or 5 year old score.

That said, if you’re starting school this summer it’s way to late now to apply for the 4 year HPSP. That should have been happening at the same time you were applying to dental school. There are a lot fewer 3 year scholarships, so you might have missed the boat.

Big Hoss

Yeah I was already informed that there was no way I could get an application package out in time for a 4-year program. I was always more interested in the 3-year scholarships, personally. I can make dental school work either way; the HPSP just sounded like a good deal on paper to not worry about finances, while serving (a previous interest of mine).

I've been told I have a pretty decent application for the 3-year scholarships from the recruiters I have spoken to, as I guess they care about DAT/GPA for the selection process.

 

[SirBrotherJam]

The specialty you want should be considered as well. HPSP + OS is 8 total years if you get in right out of school which is an EXCELLENT deal. Endo likes to see experience so 3-4 years looks really good. I can't speak for peds. A buddy of mine did Ortho after his payback, but I imagine it is much more challenging. I am confused though, how do you know you want to specialize before you ever treated or did anything in that field? I would go through DS with an open mind and see if what you are interested in remains. Who knows, you may find that you really like genden they can be wildly successful too.

 

[ALH512]

The specialty you want should be considered as well. HPSP + OS is 8 total years if you get in right out of school which is an EXCELLENT deal. Endo likes to see experience so 3-4 years looks really good. I can't speak for peds. A buddy of mine did Ortho after his payback, but I imagine it is much more challenging. I am confused though, how do you know you want to specialize before you ever treated or did anything in that field? I would go through DS with an open mind and see if what you are interested in remains. Who knows, you may find that you really like genden they can be wildly successful too.

You're absolutely correct. I'm generally someone that likes to go with a narrow area of expertise, which is why I have a general idea that I want to specialize. But yes, I am going to go into dental school with an open mind and handle my service commitment however best aligns with my goals I may just end up serving and ending up in general dentistry, which I'm not opposed to!

The army colonel is going to help complete my application this week and hopefully get it in before the committee meets for the 4-year HPSPs.

Thanks for the info! I've always been interested in surgery, so I'm definitely looking into the DS -> snowbird -> omfs residency -> 4 years packback route. It sounds like an astoundingly good deal if it works out.

 

[Youcantellme]

ODS: Officer Development School is about 5 weeks long and in Rhode Island. Very informative and pretty straight forward. Recommend going after school as they throw A LOT of information and you will forget if not using it.
HPSP route: ODS before/during/after graduation with stipend and school paid for (HSCP is a little different), still has 20k sign on bonus for some stupid reason (like paying for overpriced dental school isn't enough lol).
Direct accession: ODS after graduation and usually 150K(though that may change as numbers have been changing a lot lately) sign on bonus to help with loans but paid over time not one bulk amount I believe. Up to 300k if specialist and want to join, but #s are cutting back and if not an oral surgeon or a needed skill probably be very hard to get.
HSCP route: same ODS as HPSP and paid as E-6/E-7(if conditions met) during school to offset the cost and time is put towards retirement. Usually still have loans, but if you were prior it is very nice towards retirement.

If you apply to specialize, there are some options as mentioned above, but not really beneficial financially. Using the Navy as an example, you would enter making 25K instead of 20K for just being a specialist instead of genden and maybe 6k more if board certified, but that is it until you pay back your time. After that you can apply for retention bonuses and start increasing your salary to "try" and be competitive with the civilian sector. And you have loans to deal with because you deferred.

The only smart move with the military and specializing right after school would be an "in service"/military trained OMFS. That way you could serve your HPSP and residency training concurrently. Complete your residency, be debt free, and a board certified oral surgeon after a mere 8 years of servitude. Leave and make a killing elsewhere. Drawback would be trauma training (ironic I know), but there are plenty of threads on that kinda stuff.

You can apply to a military residency anytime during your payback, but best to have an operational tour before doing so which puts you 2-3 years in. If you know your are getting out you can apply to civilian programs. Just need to make sure you have paid your obligated service time BEFORE your residency starts. Military residencies, this timing issue for obvious reasons, doesn't apply.

For all else, just do your time. If you love it stay and serve for a greater cause with a nice retirement package OR peace out take the GI Bill and specialize for next to nothing in what you want to do.

Lastly, as a resident in the military you will be the highest paid residents.... afterwards you will get smoked when compared to outsiders.

I really feel like this conversation is going in circles.

I have a question about HPSP and OMFS Residency. So Do you mean a total of 8 years in the Army including 4yrHPSP with OMFS residency and plus another 4yrs obligation which is a total of 8 yrs?? If I choose OMFS specialty in the Army, will it take only 8yr service in the Army?

Am I understood correctly? or 4yr(residency for OMFS and HPSP) + 8 yr Service = 12 yrs in the Army?