Is it too early to start studying for the CBSE?

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zammyd

zammyd

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I'm starting dental school this August, and currently have my sights set on pursuing OMFS. I am planning to write my CBSE next year after I write the boards.

I have this summer off, and am wondering if I should use it to start studying for the CBSE? Or should I enjoy my time off and just start studying in the school year? I am also wondering if it would be less effective to study now since I am missing a bunch of knowledge I will learn when I actually start school, although, I did do my bachelors degree in health sciences so I have a decent foundation.

What do you guys think?
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yes

edit : it's WAY too early
 
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Guys, relax with the hate haha! He was asking a question he found to be pertinent. There are no wrong questions.

I'm finishing D1 right now. With everything I've learned from D1, I'd say I could only study for 50-80% of the CBSE. There are some things (specifically pharmacology) that must be learned intensively in a class. If you want to get ahead, the only thing that will really help is pharmacology. The rest will be taken in D1 (mostly) and you'll have summer of D1, D2 and summer of D2 to study for the CBSE.

If a year and a half isn't enough time to study for the CBSE, there are bigger issues at play here.
 
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Haha I'm surprised I'm getting all this hate.

The CBSE has very little, if any, actual dental specific material. I have already taken courses in physiology/pathophys/anatomy/biochem/microbio so the material isn't that foreign to me from what I've seen so far. I don't think there's anything wrong with reviewing topics now, and I think it will definitely help down the road when I'm bogged down by other dental courses! I'm surprised none of you actually gave me some supportive/informative answers, didn't expect that. Anyways, what can you expect from an internet forum....
 
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zammyd said:
Haha I'm surprised I'm getting all this hate.

The CBSE has very little, if any, actual dental specific material. I have already taken courses in physiology/pathophys/anatomy/biochem/microbio so the material isn't that foreign to me from what I've seen so far. I don't think there's anything wrong with reviewing topics now, and I think it will definitely help down the road when I'm bogged down by other dental courses! I'm surprised none of you actually gave me some supportive/informative answers, didn't expect that. Anyways, what can you expect from an internet forum....
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The reason people reacted like this is because everyone who takes the CBSE and does well on it didn't start studying from before D1. The fact of the matter is, you don't know enough to know if you truly want to go into oral surgery. I know that's hard to accept, I wanted to start studying for it before D1, just like you! However, after D1, I realize how small minded I was for thinking OMFS is the only thing I want to do. I will very likely pursue it, but limiting yourself to it isn't always the best option. Keep your horizons open, and try to figure out what you really enjoy during D1 and D2.

And, realistically, if your main goal is becoming a surgeon and you're dead set on doing so, you would've went to med school. ENT is very similar to OMFS (without third molars and implants haha).
 
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So, to sum it up :

1) Studying CBSE before D1 is like studying all the science of D1 and D2 before having had any of the courses. You CAN do it, but there's no real value.
2) Keep your horizons open. I had the same view point as many of you (omfs or nothing before d school), and I'm very glad I've let myself try out different things and see what it is I truly like. As I said, if you didn't like dentistry and only like surgery, go to med school from now and save yourself the trouble. Cheaper tuition too!
3) Relax. You got your acceptance letter. D1 will bone you til you can't get boned no more, then D2 will double your threshold (at least at my school). But, because of how much you were boned, you'll actually learn a TON (weird analogy but whatever).

If any of you have more questions, feel free to reply or pm me.
 
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I agree it's too early to start studying before you start. What you definitely could do, is when you start first year in the basic sciences, use the Step 1 prep material to study for topics you're doing in school. Use First AID, Pathoma, and Goljan as supplements to your class material, and that way you'll learn the topics in the depth that is required on the CBSE. Of course you'll have to review these same materials in your second/third year when you begin focused preparation for the exam, but everything will look familiar since it was your foundation for this stuff.
 
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Don't study now - go enjoy your summer! While it is true the early bird gets the worm, this is taken out of context. Early does not mean 2.5 years before, early means maybe at the end of first year to start of second. Just work hard in dental school, and make sure to enjoy life while doing so. Being well rounded is a bit more important than a few extra points on an exam. Just my $0.02.
 
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zammyd said:
I'm starting dental school this August, and currently have my sights set on pursuing OMFS. I am planning to write my CBSE next year after I write the boards.

I have this summer off, and am wondering if I should use it to start studying for the CBSE? Or should I enjoy my time off and just start studying in the school year? I am also wondering if it would be less effective to study now since I am missing a bunch of knowledge I will learn when I actually start school, although, I did do my bachelors degree in health sciences so I have a decent foundation.

What do you guys think?
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Probably not that early, but I would recommend getting the First AID book and Uworld and going through those in parallel with your first and second year studies. Many of the medical fields have become so competitive now that some people recommend studying with those books from day one. That's not a bad idea. I know someone who was booted out of OMFS residency because she couldn't pass the step 1. Many of the dental curricula do not teach adequately to pass it, so your concern over preparation is warranted. I think if you fill in the gaps in Step 1 and periodically review Uworld during the first two years, you should be good to go.

good luck.
 
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Silent Cool said:
Probably not that early, but I would recommend getting the First AID book and Uworld and going through those in parallel with your first and second year studies. Many of the medical fields have become so competitive now that some people recommend studying with those books from day one. That's not a bad idea. I know someone who was booted out of OMFS residency because she couldn't pass the step 1. Many of the dental curricula do not teach adequately to pass it, so your concern over preparation is warranted. I think if you fill in the gaps in Step 1 and periodically review Uworld during the first two years, you should be good to go.

good luck.
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I do think that is pretty smart, following the step 1 prep books while taking your dent school classes.

For the step 1, it is highly uncommon to get booted for not passing it... In most residencies, you can retake it a few times before they boot you
 
CanaDMD said:
I do think that is pretty smart, following the step 1 prep books while taking your dent school classes.

For the step 1, it is highly uncommon to get booted for not passing it... In most residencies, you can retake it a few times before they boot you
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Fairly uncommon I would imagine. Most will give you another chance or two. This person I believe failed it again and was booted. Nevertheless, don't take the exam lightly. It's much more difficult than the dental boards, and most of the dental curricula give inadequate preparation for the exam.
 
Silent Cool said:
Fairly uncommon I would imagine. Most will give you another chance or two. This person I believe failed it again and was booted. Nevertheless, don't take the exam lightly. It's much more difficult than the dental boards, and most of the dental curricula give inadequate preparation for the exam.
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Totally agree. There is for sure a preparation to be done for both the CBSE and the Step 1! I strongly believe 2 and a half years will be a year and a half of non efficient studying and a year of decent studying, but if it makes you feel better to do so go for it.

One thing we all learned in dental school is how to study smarter, not study more. :)
 
You are going to be burnt out very quickly. The best way is to study for the exam as you are taking your basic sciences. If you go to UCSF, I heard you will have a lot of free time to study for it.
 
I'm in a similar situation, and I'm open to responses on what y'all think too... I'm planning on attending UoP and I'm on HPSP. I want to do OS in the military, because there is high demand for it there, and it's just a personal decision I've made that truly does interest me (yes, I've considered med school many times, and I would be happy there too). Problem is, I have to take the CBSE in my D2 year in order to apply on time for it... I realize I don't have the proper knowledge foundation to begin studying for the CBSE yet, but I also realize there simply isn't ANY time to study for it during D1/D2 at UoP, and there are no summers off there. If I want to apply on time to matriculate after graduation, I feel like I have no other choice than to at least TRY studying Pathoma, First Aid, QBank, etc. (at the very least Pathoma). So far that's what I've been doing, and it does feel "over my head" but other things don't, so I'm honestly more comfortable starting on this now than waiting until I'm knee deep in my second year of school. I've taken two cadaver anatomy courses (with origins/insertions/actions, nerves, vasculature, etc), two physiology courses, microbio, biochem, and the basic prerequisites... I understand it's only the tip of the iceberg but I'd rather start hacking away sooner than later. So far I've only received positive reinforcement from other HPSP'ers and OS students at UoP and other schools. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes during dental school or outdo anybody, I'm simply trying to do well enough to matriculate after I graduate.
 
thegoatest said:
I'm in a similar situation, and I'm open to responses on what y'all think too... I'm planning on attending UoP and I'm on HPSP. I want to do OS in the military, because there is high demand for it there, and it's just a personal decision I've made that truly does interest me (yes, I've considered med school many times, and I would be happy there too). Problem is, I have to take the CBSE in my D2 year in order to apply on time for it... I realize I don't have the proper knowledge foundation to begin studying for the CBSE yet, but I also realize there simply isn't ANY time to study for it during D1/D2 at UoP, and there are no summers off there. If I want to apply on time to matriculate after graduation, I feel like I have no other choice than to at least TRY studying Pathoma, First Aid, QBank, etc. (at the very least Pathoma). So far that's what I've been doing, and it does feel "over my head" but other things don't, so I'm honestly more comfortable starting on this now than waiting until I'm knee deep in my second year of school. I've taken two cadaver anatomy courses (with origins/insertions/actions, nerves, vasculature, etc), two physiology courses, microbio, biochem, and the basic prerequisites... I understand it's only the tip of the iceberg but I'd rather start hacking away sooner than later. So far I've only received positive reinforcement from other HPSP'ers and OS students at UoP and other schools. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes during dental school or outdo anybody, I'm simply trying to do well enough to matriculate after I graduate.
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Don't rush yourself.

You don't know when you are going to start OMS in the military, the earliest you could start would be a 1+ year post graduation (usually after your initial "snow bird"/GP year). Plus military residency selection boards look at other things besides test scores as well, like your experience in the service.

During your summers, do your 2 weeks at an OMS training site and meet with current residents/directors and get to know them - you could even potentially score a rec' letter as well.
 
gatorfan99 said:
Don't rush yourself.

You don't know when you are going to start OMS in the military, the earliest you could start would be a 1+ year post graduation (usually after your initial "snow bird"/GP year). Plus military residency selection boards look at other things besides test scores as well, like your experience in the service.

During your summers, do your 2 weeks at an OMS training site and meet with current residents/directors and get to know them - you could even potentially score a rec' letter as well.
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The Air Force does things a lot differently than the Army. The AF requires everyone to do an AEGD upon graduation. However, if you're accepted to OS, they just have you do an intern year prior to the actual 4-year residency, instead of doing an AEGD. So basically you have to apply the year before you graduate, then if you're accepted, they do make you do a "snow bird" year or whatever you called it. But for every year that you wait to apply, you're going to be doing an additional snow bird year, if that makes sense.. In my case, it's not worth it to accrue more time, because I'd be better off just serving my AEGD+3 years and doing a civilian residency. Which I may very well do if the military doesn't pick me up upon graduation.

I've spoken with two AF students who are matriculating right after graduation. You're right, the military likes to see more years of experience, but that typically applies more toward other specialties. For OS, they do often take students right out of school, and that's a goal I'm working toward. If I fail, I may reapply the next year or wait to go civilian... but I know it's possible. Also, like I said, UoP doesn't have summers.

With all of that said, my point is, I'm planning to take the CBSE during my D2 year and apply. It's the only way UoP students can be accepted to OS upon graduation. There's also no extra time during that year to study and prepare for the CBSE. So I don't see why it would hurt to start studying now. In my situation, I'm almost positive it would hurt more to start studying later and trying to wing that test.
 
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thegoatest said:
The Air Force does things a lot differently than the Army. The AF requires everyone to do an AEGD upon graduation. However, if you're accepted to OS, they just have you do an intern year prior to the actual 4-year residency, instead of doing an AEGD. So basically you have to apply the year before you graduate, then if you're accepted, they do make you do a "snow bird" year or whatever you called it. But for every year that you wait to apply, you're going to be doing an additional snow bird year, if that makes sense.. In my case, it's not worth it to accrue more time, because I'd be better off just serving my AEGD+3 years and doing a civilian residency. Which I may very well do if the military doesn't pick me up upon graduation.

I've spoken with two AF students who are matriculating right after graduation. You're right, the military likes to see more years of experience, but that typically applies more toward other specialties. For OS, they do often take students right out of school, and that's a goal I'm working toward. If I fail, I may reapply the next year or wait to go civilian... but I know it's possible. Also, like I said, UoP doesn't have summers.

With all of that said, my point is, I'm planning to take the CBSE during my D2 year and apply. It's the only way UoP students can be accepted to OS upon graduation. There's also no extra time during that year to study and prepare for the CBSE. So I don't see why it would hurt to start studying now. In my situation, I'm almost positive it would hurt more to start studying later and trying to wing that test.
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Actually the AF, the Navy and the Army do things very similar. You are required to apply for an AEGD in the Army (just like the AF) but don't have to accept it (which is a stupid decision, IMHO).

Your AEGD year (same with the AF) is NOT a payback year, so you would do AEGD+4 years (total 5 years).

Also, why are you desperate to get things going with OMS? You can always apply during your AEGD year - having that residency actually makes you more competitive. Civilian programs are fine, but from personal experience, military training programs are as good (if not substantially better) than anything out in the civilian world - its a crazy difference in quality (faculty, patient care, procedure exposure, etc)..

Bottom line: enjoy dental school, become a very good GP and keep up the good work with your grades, trust me, it will make you a better OMS (if that's truly in the cards for you).

Good luck!
 
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gatorfan99 said:
Actually the AF, the Navy and the Army do things very similar. You are required to apply for an AEGD in the Army (just like the AF) but don't have to accept it (which is a stupid decision, IMHO).

Your AEGD year (same with the AF) is NOT a payback year, so you would do AEGD+4 years (total 5 years).

Also, why are you desperate to get things going with OMS? You can always apply during your AEGD year - having that residency actually makes you more competitive. Civilian programs are fine, but from personal experience, military training programs are as good (if not substantially better) than anything out in the civilian world - its a crazy difference in quality (faculty, patient care, procedure exposure, etc)..

Bottom line: enjoy dental school, become a very good GP and keep up the good work with your grades, trust me, it will make you a better OMS (if that's truly in the cards for you).

Good luck!
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Thanks, I appreciate your feedback! I wasn't trying to shoot it down, I just felt the need to clarify my situation I guess, because it's a little different than some. You are right though, it's not a race to the finish line or anything. It's just that every year I postpone my application equals another year of payback time. Military residencies are much better imho, but the earning potential is way higher as a civilian. And the lifestyle is also less demanding. I'm not sure I want to move my family around for 20 years and be away from them for 6 months periodically while my kids are growing up... So I've just made it a goal of mine to get my residency done asap so I can have the option to settle down sooner.

My minimum obligation is 9 years as a military OMS (1 intern year, 4 residency years, then 3 or 4 payback years)... if I wait a few years to apply, then there is a higher incentive to just stay and serve my full 20 years and get a retirement and health care/benefits for the rest of my life... Does that make sense? It would be stupid to serve ~12 years in the military and then get out with only ~8 years left. So if I don't have my sites set on staying in the military my whole career, then it makes sense for me to try and get my residency done sooner than later.

Essentially, if I want to settle down sooner. Then it's worth it for me to 1) Matriculate into OMS upon graduation, or 2) Serve my time in the AF as a GD, get out, and do a civilian OMS residency... It's not that I'm desperate. It's just a goal of mine. Besides, what harm could be done by starting to study early? Pathoma is actually very insightful and I don't see how it would set me back by studying it lol. QBank is also pretty sweet and gives students an idea of what the test is actually like. So if anything, familiarizing myself with the CBSE exam early on can only be a good thing... Idk why everyone on here is discouraging it. Where's the positive reinforcement?

If I can matriculate in 3 years instead of 4,5 or 6 years... then that's obviously the better route lol. Nothing wrong with gunning for it.
 
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thegoatest said:
Thanks, I appreciate your feedback! I wasn't trying to shoot it down, I just felt the need to clarify my situation I guess, because it's a little different than some. You are right though, it's not a race to the finish line or anything. It's just that every year I postpone my application equals another year of payback time. Military residencies are much better imho, but the earning potential is way higher as a civilian. And the lifestyle is also less demanding. I'm not sure I want to move my family around for 20 years and be away from them for 6 months periodically while my kids are growing up... So I've just made it a goal of mine to get my residency done asap so I can have the option to settle down sooner.

My minimum obligation is 9 years as a military OMS (1 intern year, 4 residency years, then 3 or 4 payback years)... if I wait a few years to apply, then there is a higher incentive to just stay and serve my full 20 years and get a retirement and health care/benefits for the rest of my life... Does that make sense? It would be stupid to serve ~12 years in the military and then get out with only ~8 years left. So if I don't have my sites set on staying in the military my whole career, then it makes sense for me to try and get my residency done sooner than later.

Essentially, if I want to settle down sooner. Then it's worth it for me to 1) Matriculate into OMS upon graduation, or 2) Serve my time in the AF as a GD, get out, and do a civilian OMS residency... It's not that I'm desperate. It's just a goal of mine. Besides, what harm could be done by starting to study early? Pathoma is actually very insightful and I don't see how it would set me back by studying it lol. QBank is also pretty sweet and gives students an idea of what the test is actually like. So if anything, familiarizing myself with the CBSE exam early on can only be a good thing... Idk why everyone on here is discouraging it. Where's the positive reinforcement?

If I can matriculate in 3 years instead of 4,5 or 6 years... then that's obviously the better route lol. Nothing wrong with gunning for it.
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Why would you get an "intern" year? Where would this internship happen?
If you want to get out as soon as possible, just do your 3 year payback and be on your way. Do a civilian residency if the military is not for you.
 
Why the intern year? Not sure, I just know that's how the AF does it. I have a friend who's graduating this year and has been accepted to an OS residency in the Air Force (somewhere in CA, not sure which base though). They are requiring him to work there as a GD for one year before he starts the 4-year residency. That's all I know... Also, I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty sure the Air Force is requiring everyone who is not specializing to do an AEGD - it's not an option for us. Again, I'll have to wait until I get my contract to sign and everything, but that's what my recruiter specifically told me. Apparently it used to be optional, but now it's not. I will have to wait and confirm that though. If that's the case, it will be 4 years payback instead of 3. That's why I said the AF does things differently than the Army and Navy (no signing bonuses for us, required AEGD, fewer scholarships, etc.)

So essentially, I owe the same amount of time to the Air Force whether I specialize or not. That's why I'm gunning for a military residency. I could give them four years as a GD and get out, or I could specialize and give them 4 years as an OS then get out. I'm hoping for the latter.

As for the military, I feel that it is "right for me". In fact, I very well could serve 20+ years in the Air Force and be happy. But my family is more important to me, and I would like the option to settle down in 10-12 years when my family grows and becomes more established... It's easy to move around and even get deployed when you're just a single guy or married with no dependents. It's another story when you consider raising all your children on military bases instead of a regular community.
 
Yes, I know what it's like to raise kids on a military base. It's not as bad as you think. Especially as a dentist.

No, they do not require you to do an intern year. I have never heard of this. It comes down to funding. If someone is accepted for FY17 DUINS, they won't have them do an intern year somewhere and then have the selected start FY18. It doesn't make any sense.

Can you find the documentation that you are required to do an AEGD? I have never heard of this either. Is this brand new? This is why @gatorfan99 is saying the services are more similar than you think. You are required to APPLY for an AEGD, but not required to take it. I don't know exactly how many slots there are, but I doubt there are even enough AEGD slots for all HPSP grads. That is ALOT of Postgraduate slots. Did you sign something that says you will pay your time back plus an AEGD?

Don't be so quick to listen to your recruiter. A lot of times they don't actually know what is going on. Also, that's not 4 years of payback. AEGD is neutral. So it's a Postgraduate program, then 3 years of payback.

If you want to get out as soon as possible, then you are very concerned about yourself. You even said the AF is in need of OS. If you have no intention of being an OS in the AF beyond your minimum requirements, just do your 3 years and be on your way. Do a civilian residency, set up your practice taking out 3rd molars, and enjoy your life. Don't take a residency slot that someone who would like to make a career out of the military could take. You're talking about taking everything you can get and not SERVING. This is a service. You haven't even signed your papers yet and you want to avoid any chance of deploying.
 
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schmoob said:
Yes, I know what it's like to raise kids on a military base. It's not as bad as you think. Especially as a dentist.

No, they do not require you to do an intern year. I have never heard of this. It comes down to funding. If someone is accepted for FY17 DUINS, they won't have them do an intern year somewhere and then have the selected start FY18. It doesn't make any sense.

Can you find the documentation that you are required to do an AEGD? I have never heard of this either. Is this brand new? This is why @gatorfan99 is saying the services are more similar than you think. You are required to APPLY for an AEGD, but not required to take it. I don't know exactly how many slots there are, but I doubt there are even enough AEGD slots for all HPSP grads. That is ALOT of Postgraduate slots. Did you sign something that says you will pay your time back plus an AEGD?

Don't be so quick to listen to your recruiter. A lot of times they don't actually know what is going on. Also, that's not 4 years of payback. AEGD is neutral. So it's a Postgraduate program, then 3 years of payback.

If you want to get out as soon as possible, then you are very concerned about yourself. You even said the AF is in need of OS. If you have no intention of being an OS in the AF beyond your minimum requirements, just do your 3 years and be on your way. Do a civilian residency, set up your practice taking out 3rd molars, and enjoy your life. Don't take a residency slot that someone who would like to make a career out of the military could take. You're talking about taking everything you can get and not SERVING. This is a service. You haven't even signed your papers yet and you want to avoid any chance of deploying.
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I PM'd you. Anyone else who wishes to falsely negate me feel free to do the same.
 
Scumbag_Steve said:
You seem like a smart kid, but judging by this thread and some others I would suggest that you work on your humility. Anyone here can feel free to correct me if they think this is an unreasonable suggestion given your posting history.

I understand you must be motivated. I understand you must have been a good student in undergrad. I understand you want to do OMFS. This applies to a very large number of people. None of us are as unique as we'd like to think we are.

I was shadowing the other day, and I used the phrase "I don't know what I don't know". The surgeon interrupted me and said something along the lines of "kid, that attitude is the best thing that will ever happen to you your entire life".

I can't speak for you, but I'm a 22 year old who has been in dental school for four months. I really don't know ****. I don't know your situation, but I'm guessing you and I should be in the same boat, which is the USS "Stay humble and be a sponge so that one day we can stand on the shoulders of those who came before us and make something of ourselves".

Sorry to sound like a condescending or judgmental prick, but I really think taking this advice to heart would really be a good thing for you.

Hopefully I'll run into on the interview trail in the fall of 2019.
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Thanks, no offense taken. I'll admit I am prideful, and it's a weakness of mine that I need to work on. Thanks for your advice.

As for my posting history, you're probably referring to my comments about females having an advantage for acceptances. Which I realize I shouldn't have made those comments, and I also apologized after recognizing my grave mistake. I was simply frustrated after discovering some inside information about the University of Utah *specifically* which absolutely discriminates applicants based on gender. I admit, I should have kept my frustrations to myself and not assumed that same bias applies nationwide.

As for this, schmoob is telling me that Air Force guys don't need a year of practice before OS residency. And I know for a fact that they do, it's not even up for debate. So not to pass the blame here, but perhaps he should humble himself too and admit he doesn't know everything.

All I have seen on this entire feed is people discouraging others from chasing their dreams. What's up with the negative feedback? Why does everyone feel so threatened? Because I'm some sort of competition? I don't understand it. I came on here to simply explain my reasons for studying Pathoma before I begin dental school in July. That's it. There is simply no need for cynical people making false accusations and assumptions that I'm too selfish to serve my country and pursue something that is not only altruistic by nature, but also extremely difficult. It would be nice to see some positive reinforcement sometimes, that's all. It's easy to get frustrated toward negativity.

Anyways, good luck with your pursuits. I truly wish the best for you. We're a lot more alike than we are different, so I'd rather be friends here. Thanks for the tips.
 
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thegoatest said:
I PM'd you. Anyone else who wishes to falsely negate me feel free to do the same.
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Yes you did, you were very upset.

thegoatest said:
Thanks, no offense taken. I'll admit I am prideful, and it's a weakness of mine that I need to work on. Thanks for your advice.

As for this, schmoob is telling me that Air Force guys don't need a year of practice before OS residency. And I know for a fact that they do, it's not even up for debate. So not to pass the blame here, but perhaps he should humble himself too and admit he doesn't know everything.
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How much military experience do you have? Have you even sworn in yet? Do you know ANYTHING about being AD? If you did, you would know that there is an instruction for EVERYTHING. If you can find me the instruction that says there is an internship required to complete an OS internship on AD before starting the actual residency THE FOLLOWING FISCAL YEAR UNDER A BUDGET THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN APPROVED then I will gladly concede. I have never heard of this on AD. So until I get proven wrong, it's not real. And yes, the services are more similar than you realize. And yes, I have PLENTY of AF experience. Until then, just because "your friend told you" is just not good enough to take for fact, and is not good information to spread on here.

thegoatest said:
All I have seen on this entire feed is people discouraging others from chasing their dreams. What's up with the negative feedback? Why does everyone feel so threatened? Because I'm some sort of competition? I don't understand it. I came on here to simply explain my reasons for studying Pathoma before I begin dental school in July. That's it. There is simply no need for cynical people making false accusations and assumptions that I'm too selfish to serve my country and pursue something that is not only altruistic by nature, but also extremely difficult. It would be nice to see some positive reinforcement sometimes, that's all. It's easy to get frustrated toward negativity.
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You're practically the Pope.
 
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schmoob said:
Yes you did, you were very upset.



How much military experience do you have? Have you even sworn in yet? Do you know ANYTHING about being AD? If you did, you would know that there is an instruction for EVERYTHING. If you can find me the instruction that says there is an internship required to complete an OS internship on AD before starting the actual residency THE FOLLOWING FISCAL YEAR UNDER A BUDGET THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN APPROVED then I will gladly concede. I have never heard of this on AD. So until I get proven wrong, it's not real. And yes, the services are more similar than you realize. And yes, I have PLENTY of AF experience. Until then, just because "your friend told you" is just not good enough to take for fact, and is not good information to spread on here.


You're practically the Pope.
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Alright schmoob. We're done here. You don't agree with me, I don't agree with you, so let's leave it at that. Best of luck to you.
 
schmoob said:
Yes, I know what it's like to raise kids on a military base. It's not as bad as you think. Especially as a dentist.

No, they do not require you to do an intern year. I have never heard of this. It comes down to funding. If someone is accepted for FY17 DUINS, they won't have them do an intern year somewhere and then have the selected start FY18. It doesn't make any sense.

Can you find the documentation that you are required to do an AEGD? I have never heard of this either. Is this brand new? This is why @gatorfan99 is saying the services are more similar than you think. You are required to APPLY for an AEGD, but not required to take it. I don't know exactly how many slots there are, but I doubt there are even enough AEGD slots for all HPSP grads. That is ALOT of Postgraduate slots. Did you sign something that says you will pay your time back plus an AEGD?

Don't be so quick to listen to your recruiter. A lot of times they don't actually know what is going on. Also, that's not 4 years of payback. AEGD is neutral. So it's a Postgraduate program, then 3 years of payback.

If you want to get out as soon as possible, then you are very concerned about yourself. You even said the AF is in need of OS. If you have no intention of being an OS in the AF beyond your minimum requirements, just do your 3 years and be on your way. Do a civilian residency, set up your practice taking out 3rd molars, and enjoy your life. Don't take a residency slot that someone who would like to make a career out of the military could take. You're talking about taking everything you can get and not SERVING. This is a service. You haven't even signed your papers yet and you want to avoid any chance of deploying.
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people who specialize in large part tend to get out after specialization payback is completed. The only "specialty" (and it's definitely not a specialty) that stays in consistently is the 2 yr AEGD. Well you navy guys have a bunch of made up residencies like exodontia and restorative so maybe those guys stay in too if they can sign multi year retention bonuses. I really don't think that it is a valid argument to avoid military residencies if you don't plan on being a career provider; however if someone gets into a military and a civilian program, then it's usually far more profitable in the longterm to get out and do the civilian residency.
 
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I went to UoP and studying for the CBSE during the accelerated schedule is tough mostly because clinic attendance is taken daily and can affect your grade. I recommend taking it early in the third (senior) year and consider the fact that most take it twice before they get a grade they like but don't let your grades get away from you because rank is still important and you will always live with your rank, but you can always take the CBSE again while you are in the military. I am not aware of anyone scoring higher than the low-mid sixties on the CBSe due to time restrictions. I scored literally 20 points higher on the CBSE when I had enough time to study. personally if you are sold on OMS I would go to a four year school that puts alot of people into OMS, like Columbia.

In reference to other questions being referenced here: in the military, if you are chosen for the military residency then you will start about 12-18 months after you were chosen (snow bird year) unless you are chosen for a civilian residency (much less likely and time is additive and not consecutive to your dental school payback) in which case sometimes you can avoid the snowbird year and start right away when you graduate (assuming you successfully apply and get into the civilian residency).
 
agent2362 said:
people who specialize in large part tend to get out after specialization payback is completed. The only "specialty" (and it's definitely not a specialty) that stays in consistently is the 2 yr AEGD. Well you navy guys have a bunch of made up residencies like exodontia and restorative so maybe those guys stay in too if they can sign multi year retention bonuses. I really don't think that it is a valid argument to avoid military residencies if you don't plan on being a career provider; however if someone gets into a military and a civilian program, then it's usually far more profitable in the longterm to get out and do the civilian residency.
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Can't argue with your logic or experience.

The restorative specialty is FTOS though, the Navy doesn't actually have its own program. Exodontia is "not technically a specialty," but it is. It's weird. It's an ACP; 1 year of pulling teeth at basic training. My understanding is that it's more for direct accessions, but don't quote me on that one because I'm not too sure.
 
schmoob said:
Can't argue with your logic or experience.

The restorative specialty is FTOS though, the Navy doesn't actually have its own program. Exodontia is "not technically a specialty," but it is. It's weird. It's an ACP; 1 year of pulling teeth at basic training. My understanding is that it's more for direct accessions, but don't quote me on that one because I'm not too sure.
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Exodontists are usually experienced officers who want to just do thirds all day. It's a stable existence with a fairly limited selection of stations and no sea time.
 
vellnueve said:
Exodontists are usually experienced officers who want to just do thirds all day. It's a stable existence with a fairly limited selection of stations and no sea time.
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Ha! Glad I wasn't quoted on that.

Seeing the DUINS results they are mostly LTs and LCDRs though.
 
vellnueve said:
Exodontists are usually experienced officers who want to just do thirds all day. It's a stable existence with a fairly limited selection of stations and no sea time.
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Interesting, sounds like the next best thing if one never went through OMS residency. Is the training for this up at great lakes?
 
thegoatest said:
Thanks, I appreciate your feedback! I wasn't trying to shoot it down, I just felt the need to clarify my situation I guess, because it's a little different than some. You are right though, it's not a race to the finish line or anything. It's just that every year I postpone my application equals another year of payback time. Military residencies are much better imho, but the earning potential is way higher as a civilian. And the lifestyle is also less demanding. I'm not sure I want to move my family around for 20 years and be away from them for 6 months periodically while my kids are growing up... So I've just made it a goal of mine to get my residency done asap so I can have the option to settle down sooner.

My minimum obligation is 9 years as a military OMS (1 intern year, 4 residency years, then 3 or 4 payback years)... if I wait a few years to apply, then there is a higher incentive to just stay and serve my full 20 years and get a retirement and health care/benefits for the rest of my life... Does that make sense? It would be stupid to serve ~12 years in the military and then get out with only ~8 years left. So if I don't have my sites set on staying in the military my whole career, then it makes sense for me to try and get my residency done sooner than later.

Essentially, if I want to settle down sooner. Then it's worth it for me to 1) Matriculate into OMS upon graduation, or 2) Serve my time in the AF as a GD, get out, and do a civilian OMS residency... It's not that I'm desperate. It's just a goal of mine. Besides, what harm could be done by starting to study early? Pathoma is actually very insightful and I don't see how it would set me back by studying it lol. QBank is also pretty sweet and gives students an idea of what the test is actually like. So if anything, familiarizing myself with the CBSE exam early on can only be a good thing... Idk why everyone on here is discouraging it. Where's the positive reinforcement?

If I can matriculate in 3 years instead of 4,5 or 6 years... then that's obviously the better route lol. Nothing wrong with gunning for it.
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No it's not stupid to serve 12 years and then get out, I have heard from some of the older specialists here that OMS guys have left after 15-16 years in because the retirement amount did not outweigh some of the offers they were getting in the civilian sector. This is particularly more important to keep in mind as the military is changing the whole retirement system in 2017-2018 and anyone can receive a nominal amount of retirement regardless of how many years they have served...by nominal amount, I really do mean a fairly insignificant amount to any dentist/dental specialist. You stay in the military for other reasons, not usually money if you are an OMS dude.
 
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Thanks everyone, this is all good insight/information.
 
agent2362 said:
Interesting, sounds like the next best thing if one never went through OMS residency. Is the training for this up at great lakes?
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"The Advanced Clinical Program in Exodontia is located at the Captain James A. Lovell Federal Health Care Center, Great Lakes, IL."
 
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