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Is it true that Harvard dental school has the same curriculum like Harvard med.?

Discussion in 'Medical Students - MD' started by chury, Jan 1, 2002.

  1. chury

    chury Member

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    Hi,

    I am second year in a MD school. A friend of mine is in his first year in Harvard dental school. He said thay were taking exactly the same classes like medical school people in their first 2 years, plus some additional dental courses. I understand this when it comes to Histo, biochem, Anatomy, but why would they have CV class on the same level, or pulmonary, renal or reproductive. How about physical diagnosis? I really do not get this Harvard approach. Do their dental students learn how to read EKG's and how to use the stethoscope, etc. It really does not make sense since they will not practice medicine but dentistry and will not be allowed to do stuff like MD's. Any thoughts on this?
     
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  3. Yah-E

    Yah-E Toof Sniper

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    Chury,

    To my understanding from my friends that are in medical and dental schools, you are right, I think what your friend is trying to say is that they (Harvard med and dent) are all taking the same "BASIC SCIENCE" courses! I know for fact that a lot of schools around the nation are having both dental and medical students in the same basic science courses such as gross anatomy, histo, biochem, patho, microbio, and so on! As far as other additional classes goes, dental students will have dental anatomy, while medical will have CV, dental will have dental labs and medical will have something else that dental do not take! I hope this clears up some confusions! :cool:

    In addition, to add to what you have said about how dentists do not practice like the MDs...that is not all true! Today, if a graduated dental student decides to specialize, let say, in Oral Surgery, there is an option of addtional 5-6 years of post-training to obtain a MD/oral surgeon degree on top of the DDS(DMD)! Also, dentists with some continuing education in cosmetic surgeries are now able to perform oral/maxillofacial cosmetic surgeries as well (nose, lip reconstructive procedures). You'd be surprised how much dentistry has opened up to medicine beyond the traditional teeth extractions!

    :cool:
     
  4. MrLowKey

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    We take the same exact classes med students take in the first two years except for social medicine. In the afternoons we have dental classes and we have an additional craniofacial head and neck gross lab class that runs parallel. The difference is in years three and four. They hit wards we hit clinics. Yes this includes patient doctor one and two.
     
  5. Textbookversion

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    That seems like a massive waste of blood, sweat and tears.

    I don't see in what universe the dentist needs to know how to do a physical exam because I've never seen them do one.

    Why do they need to know useless errata like what the branches of the internal iliac artery are? At least for physicians it makes sense for some graduates who will be future radiologists, surgeons or pathologists.

    Histology? I can't ever picture a dentist looking at slides of cells. Do they ever do this? My dentist counts teeth and does procedures.

    Biochemistry and physiology? Why? Do dentists prescribe drugs often? Do they assess physiological changes?

    IDK seems weird to me.
     
  6. Lokhtar

    Lokhtar Dreaming about the lions

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    Yea, dentists do prescribe drugs pretty often.

    From what I know, the curriculum for the first two years is pretty much the same.
     
  7. Rendar5

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    dentists use drugs very regularly. sedatives and pain meds for procedures, antibiotics, etc. they do have to recognize and deal with oral and facial cancers, and infections. . Maxillofacial medicine is generally more an offshoot of dentistry. My wisdom teeth extractions were done under conscious sedation. No, they don't need to know the iliac artery, neither does a pulmonologist.
     
  8. peteB

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    So why does either have to learn it?
     
  9. Northwesterly

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    Because the medical student learning histo could just as easily go into pathology.
     
    #8 Northwesterly, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  10. Lokhtar

    Lokhtar Dreaming about the lions

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    What's wrong with dentists knowing anatomy and physiology?
     
  11. peteB

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    But what if he's 100% sure he doesn't want to? Why not just spend more time teaching people exactly what they need to know for their careers other than extra stuff they will definitely not use? One of the reasons we have a doctor shortage is that it takes so long to make one. If we streamlined the education process it would make a big difference.
     
  12. peteB

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    There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with extra knowledge, but maybe the time could be better used to teach things and get experience with concepts and techniques they will actually need to know for their particular field, rather than stuff that they will likely never use or even remember.
     
  13. dr zaius

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    How many times do students change their minds on what they want to do during the MS1-3?

    How many times does a neurologist or pulmonologist tap into that reservoir of broad yet shallow knowledge from medical school or their medicine intern year? I'm just a third year, but it's pretty clear to me that a good physician knows a little bit about most common medical issues or concerning signs and symptoms such that he or she knows when to refer a patient to a specialist. In my opinion if you teach strictly in a box focusing on one organ or organ system you're setting the physician up to miss many important findings that would lead to at the very least referral to someone with more knowledge.
     
  14. peteB

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    Well this kind of connects to the other thread about midlevels working on their own and having full scope of practice. How come we (society) are OK with them having limited knowledge and potentially missing important findings because they haven't gone through a full M.D. education? As the article in the NY times today claims, NPs that work without MD supervision have the same outcomes as MDs as per 100 or so 18 year studies (something like that). Apparently their lack of full training doesn't keep them from missing important findings or knowing when to refer to a specialist. So where's the benefit?
     
  15. dr zaius

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    I think we can assume they weren't trained in a box either. I won't disagree that there are inefficiencies in the MD/DO education process, but I took your original statement to be something more akin to "advanced practice" respiratory therapist (I made this up) with a more intensive training (ie very focused education) rather than a nurse practitioner.
     
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  17. dbeast

    dbeast That's cool I guess

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    It's common knowledge that dental school is harder than medical school because they take the exact same classes as us *plus* additional dental classes. Or at least that's what every dental student I meet reminds me within the first minute of talking to them.
     
  18. chronicidal

    chronicidal Scrub

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    They need people to fill in the bottom end of the curve so the future MDs won't feel as bad about themselves. (even though it's pass/fail)
     
  19. D elegans

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    Waiting for the inevitable comparison to optometry
     
  20. calvnandhobbs68

    calvnandhobbs68 I KNOW NOTHING

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    I went to go see if Shnurek was around to comment and then I found out...he's been banned?! Last time I saw he was on probation...the world won't be the same without random optometry information in every other allo thread.
     
  21. 88845

    88845 Guest

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    Holy 10+ year thread bump! At least it means you used the search function...
     
  22. ArcGurren

    ArcGurren only one will survive

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    More importantly, I can't believe people give a crap about this sort of thing.
     
  23. peteB

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    Dude, the fact is MDs (and DOs) are the best and everyone wants to be us. :) Just look around. In this thread you have dentists taking pride in the fact that they take MD courses. In another thread we're talking about nurse practitioners who are constantly trying to prove that they are as good as MDs and expand their scope of practice to that of MDs. And in the recent past there was a guy here jumping in every thread to show how optometrists are getting to do things that MDs do.

    Clearly everyone wants what we've got. :D And the fact that they go so far out of their way to try and "prove" that they're as good as us just shows how bad they want it.
     
  24. ArcGurren

    ArcGurren only one will survive

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    Oh I absolutely understand that. I'm just sick of it.
     
  25. Optotroll

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    :D

    You are right it wouldn't be the same. I take histology courses too. We look at slides and have to identify leukocytes, organs, pathogens etc. under the microscope. We also do gram staining and use enzymes and chemicals to narrow down the species of bacteria we find for example. We also did a conjunctival swab and put it on a blood agar plate to identify our endogenous bacteria.

    It is important to know this in dentistry and optometry in parallel with medicine because there is a projected 10 fold shortage of M.D.s and D.O.s in about 10-15 years so who is going to take over for the fact that medicine was too inept/greedy to expand medical schools and residency training?

    The point is that there are more ophthalmologists retiring than are being created and if you want to be the eye doctor of the future become an optometrist. If you want to be one of the few eye surgeons then by all means get that M.D. Just don't be pissed when I'll be assisting an O.D. perform scalpel eye surgery on my rotation in Oklahoma :p
     
  26. peteB

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    Assuming that what you said would even be true, it's better to be one of the few remaining M.D.'s than the masses of mediocre cheap replacements. :D

    Welcome back optotroll !
     
  27. 88845

    88845 Guest

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    It's more of a maldistribution rather than a true shortage. Most people don't want to live out in BFE.

    Where did you read / hear that more ophthalmologists are retiring than are being created?
     
  28. ArcGurren

    ArcGurren only one will survive

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    Optotroll = shnurek?
     
  29. calvnandhobbs68

    calvnandhobbs68 I KNOW NOTHING

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    He's bacckkkkk
     
  30. D elegans

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    Shnurek:

    I usually avoid engaging trolls, but you're a special kind of annoying. In fact, I'm less annoyed now and more interested in your particular psychopathology. What motivates you to devote so much of your valuable free time (assuming it is small since optometry school = medical school) to trolling these threads? What in your past has made you so vigilant about this ****? Might your passion be served better elsewhere?
     
  31. Optotroll

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    Demand for Ophthalmologists

    Check page 2. Currently in 2012, more are set to retire compared to new ones being trained so technically I am correct. However, the long term trend reverses that with slightly more ophthos being trained than retiring. At least this is the estimation.

    :D

    I don't know I just am sometimes bored so I go on SDN to make a little commotion, that's all. I'm in a city that I got bored of about 2-3 years ago so just trying to kill the time before I graduate and can move somewhere more appealing to my interests. Also, serving my passion elsewhere requires that I not be in my sweatpants and sitting on the couch.

    Optometry school does not equal medical school. I'd say its easier because the education is more focused.
     
  32. KnuxNole

    KnuxNole Sweets Addict

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    Is the optometry board that boring?

    And how the hell can you be bored of NYC?
     
  33. KnuxNole

    KnuxNole Sweets Addict

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    Fair enough. I visit NYC a few time due to having family there, and spent some time between college and med school there, and found it to be amazing. I was a smaller town guy, so a big city is like a 180 lol.

    With that said, the studios are so tiny in Manhattan :(
     
  34. BeastInfection

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    Well, you can boil any place down to a few things it contains and make it sound boring. California--just a bunch of water, sand, trees, blonde people with plastic surgery *yawn*.

    In NYC, you're forgetting things like...incredible museums, art galleries, beautiful parks, some of the best restaurants in the world (with more new ones opening up in a day than most other cities see in a year), a constant influx of great films and concerts, burgeoning music scene, one of the highest densities of young, creative and interesting people in the US, more exciting and fun events (cultural, parties or otherwise) going on each night of the week than you could possibly cover, diverse nightlife and people, etc. Lived in NYC for a couple years after UG and wish I could go back now.

    As a New Yorker, what area of the country would you like to live most?
     
    #32 BeastInfection, Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  35. Nuel

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    This is true. But a painful residency isn't necessary for them either.
     
  36. Slack3r

    Slack3r Sicker than your average

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    Isn't it against the TOS to create multiple accounts? Especially after you've been banned?
     
  37. Frazier

    Frazier Emergentologist
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    If one has already been banned, why fret breaking TOS after the fact?
     
  38. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels
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    Columbia Dental also takes the same courses as the MD pre-clinical students, with a few exceptions (They don't take psych, don't do pelvic anatomy, etc) and additions.
     
  39. peteB

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    I actually enjoy having you here for comic relief.
     
  40. Frazier

    Frazier Emergentologist
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    Well, they do have some other options at their disposal... For example, instead of banning you, perhaps they will make your posts invisible by default.

    :ninja:
     
  41. Frazier

    Frazier Emergentologist
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    Well, from your perspective, it would appear that you are simply being ignored... which wouldn't be so far fetched given your reception here. So, from your perspective, it might look like business as usual -- just another day at the office.

    However, in reality, no one would see your posts or know of your presence.
     
  42. peteB

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    The admins just have to modify the forum code to look for posts that mention optometry in the allo forums and then automatically ban the user :)
     
  43. ToldYouSo

    ToldYouSo Student

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    What the hell? Aside from the insecure people you'd find in any field and the typical yet absolutely wrong-headed mentality of a pre-med the real life practicing dentists are too busy taking care of patients to give a f*** about what a physician else is doing much less want to be them. My OMFS and orthodontist work great hours, make several times what the avg. primary care provider will make and don't have to worry about call. Who thinks of this stuff and more importantly shouldn't you be too busy studying rather than pontificating what you think are the secret hidden desires of people who chose their given fields because they want to?
     
  44. peteB

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    It was a joke, relax. But you know its true.
     
  45. then some poor premed comes in and makes a thread about opthalmologists and optometry
     
  46. peteB

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    Good we can keep premeds out too. Two birds with one stone.
     
  47. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    Beverly Hills Braces? :laugh: "several times" is a stretch.
     
  48. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    It has been my experience that most health related programs take the same subjects but they aren't necessarily the same curriculum. Some schools may have med and dental students actually take some of the same courses. At mine and any other I have heard about they are directed and taught by different faculty or have separate requirements.
     
  49. Donald Juan

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    Of course dental students learn everything we do in med school plus more...just like how PA's learn everything we do just crammed into two years so it's actually a lot harder...and vets have to learn everything about medicine and apply it to every animal out there so they also have it harder as well.
     
  50. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    also nurses. They learn everything we do (it isn't all that hard or complicated anyways) but they manage to keep appealing personalities while they do it
     
  51. peteB

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    They're all beauty queens too

    Sent from my DROIDX using SDN Mobile
     
  52. KnuxNole

    KnuxNole Sweets Addict

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    I dunno which nurses you've been meeting :eek:
     

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