thecalccobra

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I have done a quick research which can be used for future reference..
The NRMP data does not show the full picture, as it only shows match statistics for candidates who registered with NRMP (ie got interviews). I took ERAS application submitted data and NRMP match data to show a more clear picture.

1. Cardiology
Total Applications 1780; Positions 1045 (58.5%)
USMD 689; matched 549 (79.6%)
DO 204; matched 103 (50.5%)
IMG 887; matched (43.8%)

2. GI
Total Applications 1034; Total Positions 590 (57%)
USMD 436; matched 352 (80.7%)
DO 139; matched 66 (47.5%)
IMG 459; matched 166 (36%)

3. Hematology-Oncology
Total Applications 1009; Total positions 638 (63.2%)
USMD 412; matched 336 (81.5%)
DO 92; matched 64 (69.5%)
IMG 505; matched 237 (58.3%)

4. Pulmonary-Critical Care
Total Applications 1357; Total positions 657 (48.4%)
USMD 461; matched 323 (70%)
DO 228; matched 92 (40.3%)
IMG 668; matched 240 (35.9%)

Even though PCCM looks very competitive overall, I am unsure if the average candidate applying to cardiology/GI candidate is very stronger/selective with better resume OR if PCCM is becoming more competitive.

*NRMP provided separate data for US-IMG and FMG but ERAS data only has IMG, hence I added NRMP US-IMG and Foreign together as IMG

mind sharing the source for the data? Want to run the numbers myself.
 
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After matching GI this year, I’ll say this. In retrospect, I would only apply to IM again with the intent of doing a competitive fellowship like GI if I rank mid/high tier Academic university programs with strong names and research. I would have scrapped all the community IM programs and honestly applied to general surgery as a backup plan because I would rather have just been a surgeon than a general IM doc. I just wasn’t as passionate about social work and working up creatinine bumps as my IM colleagues.
 
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Still all enlightening for me as a fourth year med student.

I'm on a PCCM elective right now, and honestly, I've been enjoying it immensely. It's making me excited as a possible sub-specialty. The ICU can at times be depressing if the patient is gonna die no matter what we do otherwise the variety has been a welcome experience and I feel like patients actually care about your opinion. In contrast, when I have been in the ED I often desired a more meaningful relationship or even just conversations that were meaningful beyond "is your pain better?" or "we are gonna admit you overnight for observation". For example, today a patient with metastatic lung cancer wrote down everything the doc was explaining about his plan -- she was invested in her care. These interactions were something I didn't even realize I wanted until *after* doing several EM rotations.
I loved critical care. I was one of the few lucky ones who during residency almost spent half his time on critical care these past three years. The cases are interesting. It's acute. And exciting.
Yes, there are depressing cases but not entirely the fault of your doings. It makes it challenging. Basically, it's great, and if it interests you, I'd also look into ID/Crit. They've started to realize ID backgrounds are definitely an advantage in critical care which is why these programs have started to open up. There are few, but definitely worth looking into.
 
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Deecee2DO

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After matching GI this year, I’ll say this. In retrospect, I would only apply to IM again with the intent of doing a competitive fellowship like GI if I rank mid/high tier Academic university programs with strong names and research. I would have scrapped all the community IM programs and honestly applied to general surgery as a backup plan because I would rather have just been a surgeon than a general IM doc. I just wasn’t as passionate about social work and working up creatinine bumps as my IM colleagues.
this is what ive been saying on this thread and then i was being bombarded with how community IM is a better route to GI than Academic/uni IM which I couldnt wrap my head around. Congrats on matching GI thats a huge accomplishment
 
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Prehealth1011

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I loved critical care. I was one of the few lucky ones who during residency almost spent half his time on critical care these past three years. The cases are interesting. It's acute. And exciting.
Yes, there are depressing cases but not entirely the fault of your doings. It makes it challenging. Basically, it's great, and if it interests you, I'd also look into ID/Crit. They've started to realize ID backgrounds are definitely an advantage in critical care which is why these programs have started to open up. There are few, but definitely worth looking into.
Just curious, Are ID/crit and neph/crit less competitive than 2 year CCM programs?
 

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Just curious, Are ID/crit and neph/crit less competitive than 2 year CCM programs?
ID/Crit is competitive because of the low number of programs and because people only wanting critical care apply to these programs to increase their odds.
 
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Quick question for someone wanting to do IM with a fellowship:

Will taking only COMLEX hinder me? Applying in a very DO friendly state. I don't really get the hype for USMLE other than it's a more widely used metric.
 

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this is what ive been saying on this thread and then i was being bombarded with how community IM is a better route to GI than Academic/uni IM which I couldnt wrap my head around. Congrats on matching GI thats a huge accomplishment

No, we were saying not saying that community IM is a better route than a real university program. We are saying that a IM program with inhouse GI that offers you a high chance of internally matching into GI is nothing to scoff at. A lower rung university program doesn't mean you'll get a GI fellowship, in house that will accept you pending you're not a horrible human being does. Obviously if you can get into a solid mid tier university program go for it. But I wouldn't rank a lower university programs with poor GI match rates above solid community programs with in house GI programs if I wanted to do GI.
 
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Prehealth1011

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No, we were saying not saying that community IM is a better route than a real university program. We are saying that a IM program with inhouse GI that offers you a high chance of internally matching into GI is nothing to scoff at. A lower rung university program doesn't mean you'll get a GI fellowship, in house that will accept you pending you're not a horrible human being does. Obviously if you can get into a solid mid tier university program go for it. But I wouldn't rank a lower university programs with poor GI match rates above solid community programs with in house GI programs if I wanted to do GI.
Couple of my community IM invites has in house fellowships but they have 2 spots at max AND they haven't taken a DO in years. As a DO, is it worth it to rank these places high? It's pretty unlikely they'll take me down the road.
 

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Couple of my community IM invites has in house fellowships but they have 2 spots at max AND they haven't taken a DO in years. As a DO, is it worth it to rank these places high? It's pretty unlikely they'll take me down the road.

Were they individuals from the program? If not then it's not then I wouldn't really consider it a pro. Talk to the residents at the program and ask what is up.
 

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No, we were saying not saying that community IM is a better route than a real university program. We are saying that a IM program with inhouse GI that offers you a high chance of internally matching into GI is nothing to scoff at. A lower rung university program doesn't mean you'll get a GI fellowship, in house that will accept you pending you're not a horrible human being does. Obviously if you can get into a solid mid tier university program go for it. But I wouldn't rank a lower university programs with poor GI match rates above solid community programs with in house GI programs if I wanted to do GI.
I never said it was anything to scoff at. I was basically saying that if you can match at mid tier university IM program (many of which have strong in-house fellowships) as a DO by having higher board scores it can be more advantageous than matching community IM with in-house fellowships due to access to academic faculty, better research opportunities etc. Academic IM programs just have more resources which there is no denying is many times an advantage. thats what i was trying to get across in my original post
 
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Prehealth1011

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Were they individuals from the program? If not then it's not then I wouldn't really consider it a pro. Talk to the residents at the program and ask what is up.
Not from the program either. Maybe I just got dealt a bad hand with community IM invites. I have some university-affiliated invites with no fellowships that I'm considering ranking higher than these.
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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I never said it was anything to scoff at. I was basically saying that if you can match at mid tier university IM program (many of which have strong in-house fellowships) as a DO by having higher board scores it can be more advantageous than matching community IM with in-house fellowships due to access to academic faculty, better research opportunities etc. Academic IM programs just have more resources which there is no denying is many times an advantage. thats what i was trying to get across in my original post
Again. Real University programs are better. But if you interview at a IM program with GI in house and they tell you its a straight shot into that program that's a bird in the hand. Only 50ish % of DOs matched GI. Those are ****ty odds.

But like I said. I'm just trying to explain that there is nuance. That's all.
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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Doesn't sound like great programs.
Not from the program either. Maybe I just got dealt a bad hand with community IM invites. I have some university-affiliated invites with no fellowships that I'm considering ranking higher than these.
 
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Deecee2DO

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Again. Real University programs are better. But if you interview at a IM program with GI in house and they tell you its a straight shot into that program that's a bird in the hand. Only 50ish % of DOs matched GI. Those are ****ty odds.

But like I said. I'm just trying to explain that there is nuance. That's all.
Those are for sure ****ty odds but how many of the DOs coming from real academic/unis matched GI that applied? I would like to see that stat but i dont think it exists
 
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Doesn't sound like great programs.
I keep seeing you say this here. The problem is when there is 1-2 spots in the said community GI program. You’re never the only applicant from your home IM program trying to get GI. You have to be very very lucky to be the only person in your IM class shooting for GI. I interviewed at too many COMMUNITY IM programs and all of them had at least 1/5 of their classes interested in GI. Most of them either don’t get it or decide not to do it given the odds or life. Another factor is when people go to a community IM program that has a GI program that likes its own, they have to hope to god there’s not going to be a chief that year with them who wants GI since most of the time those community GI programs just take their own chief. I STILL think the odds are better for getting GI at university IM above all, but if you get insanely lucky at a community IM (you’re the only one in the class somehow interested in GI, with no chief who wants GI) then you may have a shot.
 
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I keep seeing you say this here. The problem is when there is 1-2 spots in the said community GI program. You’re never the only applicant from your home IM program trying to get GI. You have to be very very lucky to be the only person in your IM class shooting for GI. I interviewed at too many COMMUNITY IM programs and all of them had at least 1/5 of their classes interested in GI. Most of them either don’t get it or decide not to do it given the odds or life. Another factor is when people go to a community IM program that has a GI program that likes its own, they have to hope to god there’s not going to be a chief that year with them who wants GI since most of the time those community GI programs just take their own chief. I STILL think the odds are better for getting GI at university IM above all, but if you get insanely lucky at a community IM (you’re the only one in the class somehow interested in GI, with no chief who wants GI) then you may have a shot.
Why do you continue to belabor the point...he thinks his opinion is right and you think your opinion is right...you are not going to change each other’s minds and have made it very clear to those looking for advice...maybe take it to PM if you two want to keep going back and forth.
 
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Deecee2DO

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I keep seeing you say this here. The problem is when there is 1-2 spots in the said community GI program. You’re never the only applicant from your home IM program trying to get GI. You have to be very very lucky to be the only person in your IM class shooting for GI. I interviewed at too many COMMUNITY IM programs and all of them had at least 1/5 of their classes interested in GI. Most of them either don’t get it or decide not to do it given the odds or life. Another factor is when people go to a community IM program that has a GI program that likes its own, they have to hope to god there’s not going to be a chief that year with them who wants GI since most of the time those community GI programs just take their own chief. I STILL think the odds are better for getting GI at university IM above all, but if you get insanely lucky at a community IM (you’re the only one in the class somehow interested in GI, with no chief who wants GI) then you may have a shot.
This is what I have been saying as well (how academic/uni IM is more advantageous for fellowship)
 
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Doctor_Strange

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After matching GI this year, I’ll say this. In retrospect, I would only apply to IM again with the intent of doing a competitive fellowship like GI if I rank mid/high tier Academic university programs with strong names and research. I would have scrapped all the community IM programs and honestly applied to general surgery as a backup plan because I would rather have just been a surgeon than a general IM doc. I just wasn’t as passionate about social work and working up creatinine bumps as my IM colleagues.

This is sort of my logic -- I applied IM & EM, but I only sent my app to internal medicine residency programs w/ solid fellowship match rates, including for DOs. I've gotten about 6 invites to programs that meet this criteria. If I had gotten silence, I likely would have just gone with EM. I kinda like hospital medicine, but it's not something -- currently -- that I desire to train to be. Cards and PCCM have the procedural components that stimulate me.

But, as the other comment illustrates -- it's a bit demoralizing seeing the poor fellowship match outcomes for DOs. I'd like to think those #s are such due to DOs from not reputable programs attempting to match fellowship, but I could be wrong. There just could be that much widespread anti-DO vibe going on at programs...
 

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This is sort of my logic -- I applied IM & EM, but I only sent my app to internal medicine residency programs w/ solid fellowship match rates, including for DOs. I've gotten about 6 invites to programs that meet this criteria. If I had gotten silence, I likely would have just gone with EM. I kinda like hospital medicine, but it's not something -- currently -- that I desire to train to be. Cards and PCCM have the procedural components that stimulate me.

But, as the other comment illustrates -- it's a bit demoralizing seeing the poor fellowship match outcomes for DOs. I'd like to think those #s are such due to DOs from not reputable programs attempting to match fellowship, but I could be wrong. There just could be that much widespread anti-DO vibe going on at programs...
I suspect it's a little from column A and a little less from column B.
 
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Doctor_Strange

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I suspect it's a little from column A and a little less from column B.

Well what's the answer that can explain it the most ? Like I'm curious to understand what barriers I may need to overcome or at least anticipate that are not as obvious as anti-DO bias or DOs not producing enough scholarly work.
 

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@Nespresso opinion on my situation?
Couple of my community IM invites has in house fellowships but they have 2 spots at max AND they haven't taken a DO in years. As a DO, is it worth it to rank these places high? It's pretty unlikely they'll take me down the road considering the spots and the bias. I'm considering ranking uni-affiliated programs higher than these.
 
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@Nespresso opinion on my situation?
Couple of my community IM invites has in house fellowships but they have 2 spots at max AND they haven't taken a DO in years. As a DO, is it worth it to rank these places high? It's pretty unlikely they'll take me down the road considering the spots and the bias. I'm considering ranking uni-affiliated programs higher than these.
I don’t really know your situation as well but do the uni-affiliate programs have their own GI fellowship or a robust GI faculty who is willing to mentor residents? How often do those uni-affiliate programs send to GI?

if you somehow don’t match GI are you okay with General IM routes like hospitalist or PCP or would you otherwise rather do something else like radiology or surgery over general IM if GI were to not become an option?
 

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Well what's the answer that can explain it the most ? Like I'm curious to understand what barriers I may need to overcome or at least anticipate that are not as obvious as anti-DO bias or DOs not producing enough scholarly work.
The big names like research. As a DO, you probably have little/no research opportunities as a student. And then, the big names in fellowship like to see people from the big names in residency.

It's not a problem unique to DOs, MDs from low tier schools (like me...back in the day) run into it as well. You do the best you can and make the most of what you've got.
 
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sloh

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The big names like research. As a DO, you probably have little/no research opportunities as a student. And then, the big names in fellowship like to see people from the big names in residency.

It's not a problem unique to DOs, MDs from low tier schools (like me...back in the day) run into it as well. You do the best you can and make the most of what you've got.

The other issue with DO schools is the time that could be spent on research is diverted towards OMM. Ugh.
 
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Doctor_Strange

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I don’t really know your situation as well but do the uni-affiliate programs have their own GI fellowship or a robust GI faculty who is willing to mentor residents? How often do those uni-affiliate programs send to GI?

if you somehow don’t match GI are you okay with General IM routes like hospitalist or PCP or would you otherwise rather do something else like radiology or surgery over general IM if GI were to not become an option?

Speaking for myself, although I think I a similar to the other user, I think I would find hospital medicine mostly enjoyable. A lot can change, but as a M4, I feel if I begin developing my CV to apply to Cardiology during residency and I don't match, I'd be more inclined to either take a paid research positron or become a hospitalist and do research / beef up my resume to try again. It's almost a sunk cost fallacy -- I will have conceivably put in so much effort & for it to not materialize would just make me try again. Luckily, I don't have to worry about student debt so I'm not under any pressure to earn an attending salary immediately.
 
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