How was/is your relationship with your dad? I think it would add value to this conversation since many posters here have eluded to medschool and residency being difficult for family relationships. How were finances and family life when he was in school. Did you guys have any other income besides loans during school/resident salary later? I realize this may be personal so no worries if you would rather not talk about that.
It was pretty hard to see my dad when he was in residency, he commuted 2 hrs every day in order to continue living with us in our house outside the city. He woke up at 4:30AM to get to work and got home around 9PM, ate, and went to sleep right away (and keep in mind this is for pathology.. one of the most chill specialties for residency). I was in college when he was doing fellowship, but for that he had to move down south and we basically only saw him on major holidays and when I was on summer break. Fortunately, my mom made a good amount and they had saved a lot before he started school so we never had financial issues. The budget was still pretty tight though with his med school loans, but in a way it taught me how to live frugally and spend wisely.
Loan forgiveness with most hospital systems is usually about 25k a year. They may say you get "100k" but when you really get into the details you get 100k if you stay for 3,4 years. Thinking about it logically, why would a hospital system or clinic offer 100k in the first year? It doesn't make sense. They're not going to offer 270k for the first year with a 32 hour work week.
You’re pretty spot on. I appreciate the honesty.
Ah yes, the dark side of the medical and research industry. Big Pharma, as they're called, funding research for drugs saying that they're fine when they aren't, but then threatening to pull funding and sue the absolute crap out of anyone who dares publish the research showing how it's dangerous. Reminds me of nutritional research lol
No problem bro. Like the other dude, I just got this email and decided to comment even though I never come on here. I saw too many people spewing out the same old drivel of "just follow your dreams" or "find your passion" but with it always being in regards to an occupation, and this irritates me. Phrases like that were meant to create willful slaves. Working like a dog the rest of your life for some greedy corporation that hardly pays you because "the money doesn't matter" sounds like slavery if you ask me. And you have mindless drones repeating the same old recycled garbage over and over again but repackaged with different words. Few people here said more than "it's up to you", the most vague and generic response you can possibly give. Like I could've sworn this was a psyop.
Everyone knows why to do it. No one talks about why not to. And OP liked nearly every post in this thread, not just the ones that were negative. Lay off.
Your profile says you're pre-dental, not a med student? I don't have a problem with OP. I didn't judge OP. My point is that it's good to hear both the pros/cons, but if OP is just limiting himself/herself to the cons, then that's only half the story. And there's a lot more to medicine than just money and prestige if that's what you're alluding to.
Would you mind sharing your career before medicine and why you made the switch? Do you think you would have been happier if you had stayed in your previous career?
White coat investor is filled with physicians whose priority is to save/make as much money as possible. If one goes to med school at 38, while finances should be important, it can absolutely not be the top priority. If op decides to go to become a physician at 38, he has to be okay with the fact that he will make “enough”, but not maximize lifetime earning....this is probably against the philosophy of white coat investor. So, not sure if white coat investor is the best place to get advice in this matter....but that’s just my opinion....
Ideally, graduate college and have a real job for like 5 years. The benefits you get from that are priceless during this journey. Having a real job made it low stress when you realize your new job is to sit in AC and press the space bar a million times to learn science. Your classmates will lack this perspective and whine/act dramatic all the time. You get out all the energy on going out 4 days a week and being wild earlier in your twenties while you have your job. You traveled and lived your life. Then you are in the right mindset to take on the challenge without regret or feeling as left out as younger people do during the process. Graduating early 30's isn't too late, especially for most people who choose 3-4 year residencies. Still plenty of time in the middle of that to have kids or to wait depending on your spouse situation.
Do you think differently for people that choose or plan to choose long training programs esp. surgery?
Personally, no, but the main factor is children in that situation. Only you know your spousal situation, support, and views on childcare.
This easily might be the most realistic answer out of this thread. Your Pros and Cons are really important to consider before anything.
Age isn’t the measurement.
I started med school in 1973 at the age of 27, and I was not the oldest in my class. I ended up doing a residency in anesthesiology and I think I enjoyed a wonderful career. I retired at age 68. I know some people elect to practice longer than I did. I had done graduate work in electrical engineering before medical school and also done my military service. I think other life experiences make one a better medical student. By a fluke, I ended up doing engineering work in a head trauma research project immediately after graduation from medical school. I did that for two years and the chairman offered me a residency in neurosurgery that I did not accept because of the issues you are working through. I think often that I made a mistake. I think you should allow yourself to follow your passions as they emerge and not worry about your age. Regardless your career will prove long enough for you to benefit society and you will do that best in a specialty that you love.
I'm 53, just finished my 2nd year. About to take the board exam (step 1) and I'd say yes it's worth it. Technically it's probably not but since I decided to go, I've never felt more alive in my entire life. I started, then quit after my first semester because I thought, "what the hell are you doing at your age?" but I couldn't let it go and the thought of getting a PA or NP degree didn't get me as excited as an MD does, so I begged my school to let me back in. The regret I would have lived with, I'm sure would be worse than the student debt I'll accumulate. Yolo... I say do it. So glad I did
That’s awesome good for you!
Thank you I really appreciate the insight.
Not to derail this thread....but dude.....you have no idea what you're talking about. 1) you don't treat hypertension with a statin. You use anithipertension medications. 2) There's tons of high quality outcomes data going back to the mid 1990s that statins decrease mortality. The evidence is strongest for secondary prevention, but high-powered studies have also shown benefit in primary prevention.
IMO I think that is precisely why OP should post on White Coat Investor, so they can understand the full financial ramifications of this decision.
I appreciate it. I would def be open to other areas other then primary care. However, I would be going the DO route which seems to close a lot of doors unfortunately.
Thank you for saying this. I’m the same age as OP and taking pre-reqs now. I didn’t doubt it before but this definitely solidified how right I am in pursuing medicine, even at 38. I’ve read every post in this thread and the struggles outlined don’t make me question my passion or desire one bit. I’m really enjoying the insight so thank you for posing the question OP!
I have never worked part time out of residency. i worked as much as I could to pay down my debts and do stuff with my kids. I wanted to be able to take them on trips and do things before they got out of high school. Never really had money in the bank until 10 yrs after residency.
I never remember feeling like she wasn't there enough, to be honest. She was always present for important events as far as I can remember. But yes, my family was very supportive, including extended family who could help out at times.
I really appreciate it. Funny thing is I live right by a pod school haha. TBH the pod attending forum on here kind of scared me off from it. It seems that low pay and poor job outlook in private practice is common. Is that true at all?
Defiantly agree, we all have unconscious bias, different situations, and experiences. Shadowing Any kind of physician near you will give a way more accurate indication of what to expect after. And they all are super forthcoming and will to help, just email them and ask.
Misery for me is working 6-7 days a week, with 30 hour call sprinkled in, all while missing most/all of the things my kids do outside of school. Medical school doesn’t prepare you for residency, so the learning curve is steep, the hours are long, and most of the time the food sucks. In most specialities you have rounding and clinic on top of your daily workload and on your days off you either want to sleep or veg out which is hard because as a parent you have responsibilities that don’t always allow for this. Now there are rotations that are “lighter” and allow for more breathing room but at times it feels like they don’t come often enough. With that being said it’s still great work but not always what it’s built up to be.
Would you really recommend PA? I keep seeing the market is tough and they are starting at 90k. I know money isn’t everything but that’s pretty low. I know several RN’s that make more. I’m also told the PA market is getting saturated. I’m I missing something? I know a lot of people on this thread have told OP to go to PA school.
I mean yes it is going to become a bit saturated because it’s the ideal route for a lot of people who are 1. Older 2. Want a better family life 3. Don’t want to go to school for a million years. However I don’t think we’re at that point yet. A lot of people want to higher PAs because they can pay them less and hire two of them instead of a doctor and push more patients through and have them under one doctor. I live in an extremely poor economic area and the PAs here make more than some of the primary care docs. So I think you have to gauge where you want to end up in the long run and what the market is there. But also you’re going to have very minimal debt compared to medical school so you can’t expect to be making LOADS of money but a lot probably make maybe 90 starting out but grow as they get more experience. Think how residents make 45-55k for 3-7 years depending on how long their residency is before making anything of substance after being in debt 300k and interest grows over those 3-7 years like another 100k. Where PA route is prob less than 100k debt and you come out making that after 2 years of school. Definitely have to weigh out what you really want imo.
To be fair, it does get substantially better. M1/2 is teh suck. M3 is better, M4 is awesome. Residency so far is even better than that. I'd encourage those struggling in pre-clinical to realize that what they are doing is not their career.
