- Joined
- Jul 3, 2009
- Messages
- 305
- Reaction score
- 90
Last edited:
Student A spends 4 years doing a residency while his loans accumulate interest (around 40,000).
According to FinAid.org: A good rule of thumb is that your total education debt should be less than your expected starting salary.
Let's say:
Student A borrows 40,000 to attend his state school for undergrad.
Student A borrows 140,000 to attend his state medical school.
Student A spends 4 years doing a residency while his loans accumulate interest (around 40,000)
Total Debt: $220,000
Interest Rate: 6.8%
In this example, if you end up earning less than $220,000 per year, does it make financial sense to go to medical school?
Note: I used conservative numbers for the above example, and the total debt could easily be much higher if private/OOS schools were attended at any point in the process.
It's not worth it for certain specialties, which is the real issue here.
If you want to do family med, why not just be a PA or NP? Less school, costs less, and you'll get paid similarly.
There are no incentives to go into primary care right now and that's why we're seeing the shortage that we're seeing.
I've been told that educational debt is considered as 'good debt' if there's any such a thing...
RE to the bolded: Sometimes you dont know you want to do family med until your 3rd year of medical school...plus people change their mind ALL THE TIME..
"Investment" doesn't automatically mean "good."I can't see myself being anything but a doctor, so yes, it is worth it for me.
I read somewhere that you have to look at it as an investment
According to FinAid.org: A good rule of thumb is that your total education debt should be less than your expected starting salary.
It's not worth it for certain specialties, which is the real issue here.
If you want to do family med, why not just be a PA or NP? Less school, costs less, and you'll get paid similarly.
There are no incentives to go into primary care right now and that's why we're seeing the shortage that we're seeing.
The only problem I see with medicine is that there is NO WAY to know what a specialty will pay in the future.
An example would be opthamology, which has traditionally been seen as a very lucrative field. While opthamology is still lucrative for the older physicians who own all the practices, the starting salary of an opthamologist is around $125-150,000 in urban areas. That is still a six figure salary, but I feel it is really low considering the debt incurred and time spent in school/residency.
IMHO, If starting salaries can drop so low in opthamology, there is nothing stopping them from dropping in other procedural specialties.
It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $303,812.40 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.7.
I was reading the family medicine forum and there are many opportunities(non-military) out there for fresh PCP MDs to pay off their debt. Most involve serving in rural/underserved communities in the outlays and some time commitment( 3 years or so). Basically, you can clear your debt doing some of these gigs in as little as 3 years and start building your practice with a clean slate when you are done.
I think more of these programs need to be advertised in medical schools so that more students can be aware and recruited into the field.
I hesitate to comment since I don't know much about opthalmology (eyes gross me out, what can I say). But I belive 1. Certain fellowships in optho significantly increase earnings. and 2. There has been a significant correction in the optho job market since the high rolling, early days of LASIK.
There need to be more programs like that, period. Actually I think there should be programs that pay your tuition up front for your commitment to work for them as a PCP. Your world view changes a little once you start tacking on debt, and it may scare some people away from the idea of going into primary care altogetherI was reading the family medicine forum and there are many opportunities(non-military) out there for fresh PCP MDs to pay off their debt. Most involve serving in rural/underserved communities in the outlays and some time commitment( 3 years or so). Basically, you can clear your debt doing some of these gigs in as little as 3 years and start building your practice with a clean slate when you are done.
I think more of these programs need to be advertised in medical schools so that more students can be aware and recruited into the field.
some one had advised to try and not go into debt in undergrad..is that really possible?
some one had advised to try and not go into debt in undergrad..is that really possible?
also, i know there is no way i can afford med school and right now im getting help with my parents for undergrad-should i re think a lot of this financial stuff? Im not afraid of debt tho and i dont mind taking out loans...
I also think that students need to be realistic about what kind of school they should go to.I have no undergrad debt.
A couple scholarships + Smart parent who started saving for my college when she was 21 (the year I was born).
Possible, yes.
That's also how long it takes for a doctor to break six figures. The difference is that the doctor has to go into six figure debt to do it, while in other careers you are making money the whole time.If your degree is in liberal arts, I think it's a safe bet you will most likely work in a non-profit, or some other kind of non-technical administrative job, probably making $30k-40k/year starting out. You may luck out and do a little bit better. I have two older sisters, both working in contracts now, with unrelated degrees (one with a BA in mass communication, one with a bachelor of music), and doing quite well.. but it took 8-10 years of working and moving up the ladder for both of them to break six figures (neither had student loans).
I also think that students need to be realistic about what kind of school they should go to.
I decided I wanted to go to a small private school, despite my parents not helping me pay for it at all. Result? Nearly $100k in undergrad debt.
My little brother wants to go to a good school as well, and I think he's thinking private. He wants to be a CPA or actuary. I am telling him to go PUBLIC because it is absolutely NOT WORTH the cost of a private education over a public education that costs 50-75% less.
VERY true. Agree 100%.
And to whoever said Mom and Dad had to be rich or start a college fund early, requiring them to have "extra money" that's not entirely true.
My mom was a single mom, working as an RN and paying for day care. ALMOST anyone can start a college fund for their kids, even if it's just with a little money it will add up over 18 years.
However, we're mostly past that stage of asking our parents to start a college fund, lol....so if they didn't and you don't apply for a lot of scholarships and get some....then yes, rich parents would be the answer.
In Texas, sure. Single mom in New York City ? Maybe not.
According to FinAid.org: A good rule of thumb is that your total education debt should be less than your expected starting salary.
Let's say:
Student A borrows 40,000 to attend his state school for undergrad.
Student A borrows 140,000 to attend his state medical school.
Student A spends 4 years doing a residency while his loans accumulate interest (around 40,000)
Total Debt: $220,000
Interest Rate: 6.8%
In this example, if you end up earning less than $220,000 per year, does it make financial sense to go to medical school?
Note: I used conservative numbers for the above example, and the total debt could easily be much higher if private/OOS schools were attended at any point in the process.
Very true....exactly why I said ALMOST.
Haha. Texas is a great state (besides the politics of course ). I'll be in Austin this weekend. It is a beautiful city. I wish they had a med school. It would have been my top choice.
First of all, I totally agree with you that its a big debt once you come out, its outrageous. However, why not work right now or during undergraduate, or even graduate and save up money just to pay off the loans, maybe take a year break just to ease up the debt, thats what i am planning to do. also there are plenty of scholorships for you to apply to. its not that bad if you look at it, you might end up getting 100k yearly anyways, so overall I think it would be worth it.
apply to UTMB in galveston and you can have a strong shot at doing ALL of your third and fourth year in austin if you so desire
Austin is okay but a bit boring.apply to UTMB in galveston and you can have a strong shot at doing ALL of your third and fourth year in austin if you so desire
Austin is okay but a bit boring.
Engineers typically do better than people with liberal arts backgrounds.
I just ran the calculations using the website for two different scenarios (10 year vs. 30 year)
Loan Term: 10 years
Loan Balance: $220,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 6.80%
Monthly Loan Payment: $2,531.77
Number of Payments: 120
Cumulative Payments: $303,811.93
Total Interest Paid: $83,811.93
It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $303,812.40 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.7.
Is it just me or is the above analysis completely off? Why would you need at least a $300,000 annual income in order pay off a loan which requires only $30,000 annual payment. You could earn anything above $30,000 salary and still pay off that loan in the same amount of time. Any income you earn above $30,000 annually, would be what you would use toward whatever else you have going on.
Am I right? .. How bad is debt if you just have to sacrifice $30,000 of your annual salary. If you earned $200,000 a year, you would instead be earning 170,000. Still NOT BAD ..at all..
Well, you need to factor in tax as well.Is it just me or is the above analysis completely off? Why would you need at least a $300,000 annual income in order pay off a loan which requires only $30,000 annual payment. You could earn anything above $30,000 salary and still pay off that loan in the same amount of time. Any income you earn above $30,000 annually, would be what you would use toward whatever else you have going on.
Am I right? .. How bad is debt if you just have to sacrifice $30,000 of your annual salary. If you earned $200,000 a year, you would instead be earning 170,000. Still NOT BAD ..at all..