Is Medicine a Cult?

[Sivastraba]

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This topic is not intended to start flames or arguing with each other. I am just wondering what other people's opinion about it...

The term cult, is defined as any manipulative group which exploits its
members by causing psychological, financial and physical harm.

So what has been people's experience in the overall treatment they have received from Faculty while in Medical school and then residency training?

 

[threepeas]

This topic is not intended to start flames or arguing with each other. I am just wondering what other people's opinion about it...

The term cult, is defined as any manipulative group which exploits its
members by causing psychological, financial and physical harm.

So what has been people's experience in the overall treatment they have received from Faculty while in Medical school and then residency training?

what's your point?

 

[Sivastraba]

what's your point?

My point is that attendings don't have to YELL AT YOU, Humiliate you in front of everyone or treat you like crap....

I just hear people keep saying how you have to develop a thick skin, but I honestly get tired of having to deal with such pompous arrogant pricks....

 

[DeLaughterDO]

My point is that attendings don't have to YELL AT YOU, Humiliate you in front of everyone or treat you like crap....

I just hear people keep saying how you have to develop a thick skin, but I honestly get tired of having to deal with such pompous arrogant pricks....

Um, you could always quit 😀

 

[subtle1epiphany]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cult
The strict definition of a "cult" requires the worship/reverence of a particular person. This doesn't hold true for allopathic medicine and doesn't for osteopathic medicine since the AOA schism with Dr. Still in the early 20th century. So this definition is obviously not the case.
Another definition is that it describes a group that adheres to an unscientific belief system. Well, physicians do things that are not scientific, but the profession is solidly based on science and the advancement of evidence-based medicine brings it closer to that ideal all the time. Thus, this isn't the case either.
So I assume that you're asking about a "diffuse cult" that adheres to a reverence of the "attending" or "resident."

Well, I'm not even going to touch that...I just don't have the experience...
This might be interesting.

 

[monkey7247]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cult
The strict definition of a "cult" requires the worship/reverence of a particular person.

Osler

 

[DrNick2006]

I don't know about cult, but I've often thought of Medicine as a relegion with a doctrine, rituals, set of practices and community of members.

 

[Disco]

often in academic environments, the attendings are worshipped, and put on god-like status. its pathetic that employees, residents, & patients view some physicians as above the rest, but even worse that the physicians allow themselves to be placed on this pedestal.
in my experience, it seems a bit different in private/community hospital settings. attendings at these hospitals don't have the 10 person entourage that follows them around like mother goose. I think academic/university affiliated hospitals appeal to the type of physicians that want their ego stroked daily by students, residents, staff etc.
Obviously I plan to attend a community based program.

 

[threepeas]

My point is that attendings don't have to YELL AT YOU, Humiliate you in front of everyone or treat you like crap....

I just hear people keep saying how you have to develop a thick skin, but I honestly get tired of having to deal with such pompous arrogant pricks....

you could of just said that instead of the passive aggressive statement that started this thread.

medicine is more like a physically abusive relationship between a parent and child. the child hates the abuse growing up, but ends up being an abusive parent themselves.

 

[skypilot]

Well at one point in time doctors did have what was called a "god complex." I think some surgeons still have one. So there is a deity involved in medicine. Other deities in medicine would include Debakey.

The other thing is that medicine asks you to drop most of your connections and outside activities and devote 80 to 100 hours a week to your "calling."

Lastly, medicine requires you to work up to 30 hours straight without any sleep. Sleep deprivation is a method used by some cults to brainwash their members.

So is medicine a cult?

 

[8744]

It's a cult because the keepers of the sacred fire will chastise you if your motivations are not as pristine as theirs. (If money is important and you like some free time every now and then)

 

[JackBauERfan]

often in academic environments, the attendings are worshipped, and put on god-like status. its pathetic that employees, residents, & patients view some physicians as above the rest, but even worse that the physicians allow themselves to be placed on this pedestal.
in my experience, it seems a bit different in private/community hospital settings. attendings at these hospitals don't have the 10 person entourage that follows them around like mother goose. I think academic/university affiliated hospitals appeal to the type of physicians that want their ego stroked daily by students, residents, staff etc.
Obviously I plan to attend a community based program.

I really don't think every academic physician is doing it to 'want their ego stroked daily". Possible some do it because they really like teaching aspect of medicine. Obviously I plan to attend academics, and i'm probably stroking my ego by posting here so I can have all the attention.

 

[sacrament]

I often say that medicine is the closest an atheist can get to organized religion. (Not in a feel-good way.)

 

[8744]

often in academic environments, the attendings are worshipped, and put on god-like status. its pathetic that employees, residents, & patients view some physicians as above the rest, but even worse that the physicians allow themselves to be placed on this pedestal.
in my experience, it seems a bit different in private/community hospital settings. attendings at these hospitals don't have the 10 person entourage that follows them around like mother goose. I think academic/university affiliated hospitals appeal to the type of physicians that want their ego stroked daily by students, residents, staff etc.
Obviously I plan to attend a community based program.

Then don't worship them. The longer I am in medicine the more relaxed I get around attendings and upper-levels. The key is to do your job, show the proper respect for their knowledge and position, but never kiss their asses.

 

[penguins]

Well at one point in time doctors did have what was called a "god complex." I think some surgeons still have one. So there is a deity involved in medicine. Other deities in medicine would include Debakey.

The other thing is that medicine asks you to drop most of your connections and outside activities and devote 80 to 100 hours a week to your "calling."

Lastly, medicine requires you to work up to 30 hours straight without any sleep. Sleep deprivation is a method used by some cults to brainwash their members.

So is medicine a cult?

👍

 

[Sivastraba]

Well at one point in time doctors did have what was called a "god complex." I think some surgeons still have one. So there is a deity involved in medicine. Other deities in medicine would include Debakey.

The other thing is that medicine asks you to drop most of your connections and outside activities and devote 80 to 100 hours a week to your "calling."

Lastly, medicine requires you to work up to 30 hours straight without any sleep. Sleep deprivation is a method used by some cults to brainwash their members.

So is medicine a cult?

Very true sky pilot..

Medicine has to be your 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th priority...

Then from 5th on comes your familiy and other stuff...

 

[CANES2006]

The longer I am in medicine the more relaxed I get around attendings and upper-levels. The key is to do your job, show the proper respect for their knowledge and position, but never kiss their asses.

We are of similar minds, my friend.

 

[8744]

Very true sky pilot..

Medicine has to be your 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th priority...

Then from 5th on comes your familiy and other stuff...

Are you crazy?

Do you have a family? My wife and children are my number one priority. In no way does this meant that I slack off on the job but it does meant that I despise the utter contempt that some upper level residents and attendings who have no life outside the hospital have for my free time.

Medical training is extremely inefficient and disorganized. Maybe it's inevitable but this doesn't mean it's a good thing.

 

[CatsandCradles]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cult
The strict definition of a "cult" requires the worship/reverence of a particular person. This doesn't hold true for allopathic medicine and doesn't for osteopathic medicine since the AOA schism with Dr. Still in the early 20th century. So this definition is obviously not the case.

Are you sure about that? I visited one school where they had pictures and statues of AT Still as if he were some sort of God 😀

And, when I was interviewed at one school, they asked me a few thing about the Bible too. Pretty strange for a medical school, but then again osteopathy has its roots in evangelical Christianity.

So I guess perhaps a few of our schools could be considered "cults" by someone who is not familiar with religion. 🙂

 

[beyond all hope]

Sorry, was I chanting like a zombie again?

I think it's important to realize that the culture of medicine is very regimented, ascestic (sp?), and dogmatic, like a cult or a religion. People also take it very seriously, probably too seriously. (especially surgeons...🙂

It's funny, coming from a resident who is soon to be an academic attending, I think a lot of the pressure and rigor actually comes from within us, not from attendings or upper-years. I've noticed as I've come along that my attendings aren't harrassing me at all: I'm doing it to myself.

Medicine is a job. We are not priests and we are not gods. It's a very important job where people trust their health and their families' health in our hands, and expect us to preserve their dignity and confidence when they are sick and dying. It's still a job.

We enforce the cult-like behavior on ourselves as much as the attendings do it to us. It's important to give ourselves and our fellows some slack, especially during med school and residency.

Maybe I'm too soft and fuzzy. I once made a sarcastic comment to my med students that I needed to crack the whip and kick some *ss. One of the med students actually said. "Oh, you'd never do that. You're too nice."

I was offended.

 

[penguins]

Sorry, was I chanting like a zombie again?

I think it's important to realize that the culture of medicine is very regimented, ascestic (sp?), and dogmatic, like a cult or a religion. People also take it very seriously, probably too seriously. (especially surgeons...🙂

It's funny, coming from a resident who is soon to be an academic attending, I think a lot of the pressure and rigor actually comes from within us, not from attendings or upper-years. I've noticed as I've come along that my attendings aren't harrassing me at all: I'm doing it to myself.

Medicine is a job. We are not priests and we are not gods. It's a very important job where people trust their health and their families' health in our hands, and expect us to preserve their dignity and confidence when they are sick and dying. It's still a job.

We enforce the cult-like behavior on ourselves as much as the attendings do it to us. It's important to give ourselves and our fellows some slack, especially during med school and residency.

Maybe I'm too soft and fuzzy. I once made a sarcastic comment to my med students that I needed to crack the whip and kick some *ss. One of the med students actually said. "Oh, you'd never do that. You're too nice."

I was offended.

I agree that we do it a lot to ourselves. I am sure there are really malignant programs out there whose attendings are terrible, but I have only ever had one attending truly treat me in that traditional/mythical like terrible way where I am scum and he was god-like.
Most of my clinical years were surprisingly pleasant and most of my attendings were great ,approachable people. A lot depends on you though. Those med students who weren't prepared, lied, were downright socially inept... did get yelled at etc. There seems to be a low threshold of tolerance for slackers but if you just don't know something there are usually no negative reprecussions except embarassment.