Is middle eastern ORM?

[PotGoblinsales10]

Are middle eastern people considered ORM (over-represented in medicine)--like Asians and Indians?

I know they are considered white and have to apply as caucasian, but is there a screening process amongst ADCOMS that considers middle eastern descent as ORM?

Let's say an applicant has a distinct middle-eastern name like "Mohammad", do they have less chance of entry (assuming similar stats/Ec/personal statements/etc.) than a white male named "Steve" or are they both considered white and treated exactly the same?

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[Chelsea FC]

Are middle eastern people considered ORM (over-represented in medicine)--like Asians and Indians?

I know they are considered white and have to apply as caucasian, but is there a screening process amongst ADCOMS that considers middle eastern descent as ORM?

Let's say an applicant has a distinct middle-eastern name like "Mohammad", do they have less chance of entry (assuming similar stats/Ec/personal statements/etc.) than a white male named "Steve" or are they both considered white and treated exactly the same?

You are a ORM and will be treated the same as Steve

 

[efle]

You fall under Caucasian for med school apps. White with a European name vs white with a Mid East name I don't think is going to change any of the places you interview

 

[BrownEMS]

You are a ORM and will be treated the same as Steve

This doesn't make any sense. Middle eastern=white. White is not ORM and thus middle eastern is not ORM.

 

[freak7]

This doesn't make any sense. Middle eastern=white. White is not ORM and thus middle eastern is not ORM.

 

[Chelsea FC]

This doesn't make any sense. Middle eastern=white. White is not ORM and thus middle eastern is not ORM.

I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Espressso]

Are middle eastern people considered ORM (over-represented in medicine)--like Asians and Indians?

I know they are considered white and have to apply as caucasian, but is there a screening process amongst ADCOMS that considers middle eastern descent as ORM?

Let's say an applicant has a distinct middle-eastern name like "Mohammad", do they have less chance of entry (assuming similar stats/Ec/personal statements/etc.) than a white male named "Steve" or are they both considered white and treated exactly the same?

Arab-Americans, those from the Middle East, etc are considered Caucasian according to the medical school process. Mohammad and Steve are both considered white on paper, but obviously adcoms can tell the differences.

 

[BrownEMS]

I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

The flaw in your reasoning is that you consider middle eastern a separate race, when AAMC and US census consider them white.

Consider this:

A=B (Middle eastern=White)
B=~C (white= not ORM)
Therefore,
A=~C (middle eastern= Not ORM)

So it doesn't make sense to say that Middle Eastern is ORM in any mathematical/logical sense.

But this has nothing to do with adcoms perceptions; do adcoms consider middle eastern ORM and do they treat them like Asian-Americans? I don't think so.

However, check this out: There may be changes that may consider middle eastern a separate race.

 

[kraskadva]

The flaw in your reasoning is that you consider middle eastern a separate race, when AAMC and US census consider them white.

Consider this:

A=B (Middle eastern=White)
B=~C (white= not ORM)
Therefore,
A=~C (middle eastern= Not ORM)

So it doesn't make sense to say that Middle Eastern is ORM in any mathematical/logical sense.

But this has nothing to do with adcoms perceptions; do adcoms consider middle eastern ORM and do they treat them like Asian-Americans? I don't think so.

I think the reason @freak7 is giving you that look is your assertion that white is not Over Represented in Medicine. Not because your logic, as above, doesn't follow.

 

[Chelsea FC]

The flaw in your reasoning is that you consider middle eastern a separate race, when AAMC and US census consider them white.

Consider this:

A=B (Middle eastern=White)
B=~C (white= not ORM)
Therefore,
A=~C (middle eastern= Not ORM)

So it doesn't make sense to say that Middle Eastern is ORM in any mathematical/logical sense.

But this has nothing to do with adcoms perceptions; do adcoms consider middle eastern ORM and do they treat them like Asian-Americans? I don't think so.

Again you have no clue what you are talking about and you keep flying off your mouth like you do. Whites are ORM so Middle Easterns are ORM as well so much for you maths or logic. Maybe you're using the new alternative maths I have been hearing about

 

[Goro]

Both are treated exactly the same.

The Census Bureau classifies Arabs and other Middle Easterners as Caucasians, and as such, they're both ORM.

Are middle eastern people considered ORM (over-represented in medicine)--like Asians and Indians?

I know they are considered white and have to apply as caucasian, but is there a screening process amongst ADCOMS that considers middle eastern descent as ORM?

Let's say an applicant has a distinct middle-eastern name like "Mohammad", do they have less chance of entry (assuming similar stats/Ec/personal statements/etc.) than a white male named "Steve" or are they both considered white and treated exactly the same?

 

[freak7]

The flaw in your reasoning is that you consider middle eastern a separate race, when AAMC and US census consider them white.

Consider this:

A=B (Middle eastern=White)
B=~C (white= not ORM)
Therefore,
A=~C (middle eastern= Not ORM)

So it doesn't make sense to say that Middle Eastern is ORM in any mathematical/logical sense.

But this has nothing to do with adcoms perceptions; do adcoms consider middle eastern ORM and do they treat them like Asian-Americans? I don't think so.

However, check this out: There may be changes that may consider middle eastern a separate race.

I've taken my fair share of math too, my friend. Trust me.

I think the reason @freak7 is giving you that look is your assertion that white is not Over Represented in Medicine. Not because your logic, as above, doesn't follow.

Not to be that math guy, but they used equals signs instead of implication arrows. His logic is actually wrong because of that.

Edit: Clarity

 

[kraskadva]

I've taken my fair share of math too, my friend. Trust me.


Not to be that math guy, but they used equals signs instead of implication arrows. His logic is therefore wrong too.

LOL, well if you're going to be formal about it...

 

[Skittsie13]

I think @BrownEMS might be using ORM for overrepresented minority? Rather than overrepresented in medicine.

 

[efle]

Wait what is going on above?

White and Mid-East (and Indian and Asian) are all Over Represented in Medicine aren't they? What's the issue?

 

[freak7]

I think @BrownEMS might be using ORM for overrepresented minority? Rather than overrepresented in medicine.

Except white isn't the minority, it's the majority. Maybe if they were comparing Middle-Eastern to Asian I'd say that'd be a possibility

Edit: Misread, yeah actually @Skittsie13 you might be on to something.

 

[freak7]

LOL, well if you're going to be formal about it...

He's the one who brought formalized logic into the discussion. I will not sit idly by while people wantonly destroy my favorite language!

 

[cactusman]

I've seen ORM as an abbreviation for over-represented minority for undergrad admissions, so I'm fairly sure that's what @BrownEMS means. I think Asian is the only racial/ethnic group included, so it's not that useful tbh.

 

[gyngyn]

Are middle eastern people considered ORM (over-represented in medicine)--like Asians and Indians?

I know they are considered white and have to apply as caucasian, but is there a screening process amongst ADCOMS that considers middle eastern descent as ORM?

Let's say an applicant has a distinct middle-eastern name like "Mohammad", do they have less chance of entry (assuming similar stats/Ec/personal statements/etc.) than a white male named "Steve" or are they both considered white and treated exactly the same?

Arab Americans are well represented in medicine.
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.imana.org/resource/resmgr/ispu_report_muslim_physician.pdf
You may still provide diversity to the class depending on where you apply, though.

 

[artist27]

Arab Americans are well represented in medicine.
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.imana.org/resource/resmgr/ispu_report_muslim_physician.pdf
You may still provide diversity to the class depending on where you apply, though.

So who is left over and falls into neither ORM or URM?

 

[gyngyn]

So who is left over and falls into neither ORM or URM?

We don't consider anyone "ORM" any more than we consider any particular group "over-served."
Applicants from regions or communities that are not getting their fair share of physicians do get a careful look, especially if they have language skills and/or a validated commitment to this community or region.

 

[Sanguis]

Arab Americans are well represented in medicine.
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.imana.org/resource/resmgr/ispu_report_muslim_physician.pdf
You may still provide diversity to the class depending on where you apply, though.

how can I find this type of publication, but for mexican-americans/hispanics??

 

[gyngyn]

how can I find this type of publication, but for mexican-americans/hispanics??

Hispanics are a heterogeneous group.
Many are not considered under-represented, though those with language skills and commitment to service are still valuable.
Mexican Americans and Mainland Puerto Ricans are massively under-represented and are widely considered UiM.
Some schools also consider Central Americans UiM.
Each school makes an independent determination of which groups are UiM for that school.

Stats for health disparities and the physician workforce are often available on a state by state basis. Here is an example: https://healthforce.ucsf.edu/sites/healthforce.ucsf.edu/files/publication-pdf/1. 2008-03_MD_Diversity_in_CA_New_Findings_from_the_CA_Med_Board_Survey.pdf

 

[Sanguis]

Hispanics are a heterogeneous group.
Many are not considered under-represented, though those with language skills and commitment to service are still valuable.
Mexican Americans and Mainland Puerto Ricans are massively under-represented and are widely considered UiM.
Some schools also consider some Central Americans UiM.
Each school makes an independent determination of which groups are UiM for that school.

Stats for health disparities and the physician workforce are often available on a state by state basis. Here is an example: https://healthforce.ucsf.edu/sites/healthforce.ucsf.edu/files/publication-pdf/1. 2008-03_MD_Diversity_in_CA_New_Findings_from_the_CA_Med_Board_Survey.pdf

Thanks a lot. I know this doesn't do it justice, but you guys are tremendously helpful.

Hmm.. since I know you are based in CA. Do you guys do your best to recruit mexican-americans from other states?

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks a lot. I know this doesn't do it justice, but you guys are tremendously helpful.

Hmm.. since I know you are based in CA. Do you guys do your best to recruit mexican-americans from other states?

Some schools are focussed on in-state more than others (UCD, UCI).