Is my dad's suggested application plan for me to overcome a low MCAT without taking a gap year viable? It seems risky to me.

[greysdidntprepareme]

Hey everyone, I just want to say thank you in advance for any advice you give. I'm stuck in a bit of a weird situation. This might be a tad long.

I'm a pretty well rounded applicant. My GPA is 3.88, have 200 hours of clinicals, 130 hours of shadowing, 600 hours of research (two different labs combined), volunteering with underprivileged kids, some other volunteering, and I also have the unique factor of a double degree of biology/music. I have only taken 15 credits in a semester once and it was the semester I studied for my MCAT. Generally my average is 18 cred/sem. Some of my activities are related to music AND medicine so I've created a bit of a niche for myself. The problem is: I got a low/average MCAT at 509. It was a big surprise because I dropped from my practice FL's! My goal was a 515 and I know I'm capable of it. Now I'm stuck in this position where I know I could get a significantly better score if I retook in January, and at the same time I've spent so much time creating a well-rounded application and I would really like to go to a mid-tier to lower-top tier school that I'm interested in going to. My dad is a big part of my application process right now (he has my best interests in mind and all that) and he suggested a plan that I think is risky he doesn't seem to think is if we play our cards right. I'm wondering what everyone thinks.

The plan is to basically apply to a range of schools from 508-514 MCATs, but leave out some 508-512 schools that I'm interested in. This will make sense in a bit (or not). Next, I write secondaries for my most competitive schools first (513-514 MCAT) so that I'm earlier in the cycle with better chances. During August I would be going all out studying for the MCAT, and at the end of August, I would take a practice test and evaluate how/if my scores are rising. If my scores are promising, I would then decide not to apply to my lowest tier schools (508-511) with the plans of applying again next cycle. If things are not looking as promising as we'd like in August, I go ahead and apply to the 508-511 schools and write their secondaries. As I keep studying, I will keep taking practice tests and IF scores are looking very promising (515 on multiple practice tests), then I would withdraw from the lower tier schools before interview. The reason for this is because if I get a good MCAT (513+), I don't want to have an acceptance from a lower tier school by chance locking me into place before I have the chance to try again. Not that these are bad schools, just not the ones I want to go to. I would keep my 513-514 school applications in, though, because on the off chance that I do get in, I could stop studying for the MCAT and accept. Those are schools that I would love to go to! The more likely outcome is that I don't get in, and in that case, I will be a reapplicant with a better MCAT score the next cycle for the 513-514 schools. Assuming I get the 513-515+ score I want (these were in range for me on my practice FL's, so I'm decently confident I can get there), I apply next cycle, but now for the new cycle I will need safety/overshoot schools again in the 508-511 range. Since I withdrew applications after secondaries for some of the schools in this range, there's a chance that these schools would not give me a second chance. This is where those 508-512 schools I set aside from the first cycle and didn't apply to come in. I use these as the safety schools for my new 2021 application cycle with my new MCAT. So this is the plan my dad came up with.

This seems doable in theory, but I have a feeling that med admissions are SOOO much more complicated and unpredictable than we think. What I think would be best is withdrawing my application before it is even reviewed by AMCAS, studying for the exam in January, and applying next cycle, taking a gap year. That way I don't have to do all the splitting of safety schools and withdrawing applications, potentially killing my chances at those schools the next year, all to not be locked into a school that I don't really want to go to. My dad's huge concern with this plan (he is a very cautious person), is that I don't get enough of an improvement on my new MCAT, and that then I've just lost a year for nothing. I understand where he's coming from, but gap year isn't the end of the world for me. If I had a gap year, there's things I would be interested in doing. I could improve my clinical experiences, work on my spanish, etc. He is so adamant on no gap year, though, and he is very invested in this process; I would have a very hard time completely going against his advice. What do you guys think of his plan? Also, will being a reapplicant to those 513-514 schools significantly hurt me? He seems to think that reapplying with a significantly improved application might look even better, showing perseverance. I'm not sure though because I've heard so much on sdn and other places not to be a reapplicant if you can avoid it. And as my app is still under AMCAS review, I am in the time frame to avoid it and withdraw. I'm pretty lost. Let me know your thoughts!

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[greysdidntprepareme]

I should add a tl;dr: My dad suggests I apply this year with a low MCAT score and aim for a retake in january. If my practice scores are looking good in Nov/Dec, I then would withdraw my apps from lower tier schools. If i don't get into higher tier schools this cycle, I apply again the next year, but use different safety, lower-tier schools than the first cycle because the schools I withdrew from may not give me another chance. I think this plan is risky and that I should just skip this cycle and apply next year with a retake. He is absolutely against this in case my retaken MCAT isn't good enough and I've lost a year for nothing.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Science + music majors were rather common at my undergrad among those with premed aspirations.

If you want to shoot for midtiers, you will need a significantly higher MCAT score than 509.

Applying will interfere with full on MCAT prep, which you need to have any chance at raising your score to 515.

 

[Faha]

You are over thinking this. It does not matter whether you go to a "low tier" "low mid tier" or "mid tier" school. What matters is that you are accepted to any MD or DO school, complete the 4 years and obtain a license to practice medicine.

 

[LizzyM]

This plan is crazy. You can't do justice to practice tests and the review of the results of the practice tests in less than 14 hours per week. You also need to bring your A-game to the secondaries because half-a55ing the secondaries is grounds for being tossed aside.

You have a lot of shadowing (almost too much) and "some volunteering". To me that seems like a lopsided application.

Do it right and you'll only do it once. It is a long and mentally/emotionally exhausing experience and if you apply late (you will be late at some schools with this plan) with an "average" application, you will not end up matriculating this time next year. Think about that.

Tell your father that this is your life, that you are prepared to support yourself during the gap year and that you'll retake the MCAT in January and apply for the first (and-- we hope-- the only time) next June.

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

I should add a tl;dr: My dad suggests I apply this year with a low MCAT score and aim for a retake in january. If my practice scores are looking good in Nov/Dec, I then would withdraw my apps from lower tier schools. If i don't get into higher tier schools this cycle, I apply again the next year, but use different safety, lower-tier schools than the first cycle because the schools I withdrew from may not give me another chance. I think this plan is risky and that I should just skip this cycle and apply next year with a retake. He is absolutely against this in case my retaken MCAT isn't good enough and I've lost a year for nothing.

This is good to know, about the science/music majors. I go to a pretty small school so I wasn't aware this was common. It helps me put my application in perspective and just shows me even more that I need a better MCAT. My dad and I agreed on a grueling application/MCAT schedule where he holds me completely accountable so I think that I will be able to pull off both at the same time. However, I do agree with you that the application cycle will interfere in some way with prep. If i was able to magically pull both off, would this plan be viable, you think?

 

[KnightDoc]

I should add a tl;dr: My dad suggests I apply this year with a low MCAT score and aim for a retake in january. If my practice scores are looking good in Nov/Dec, I then would withdraw my apps from lower tier schools. If i don't get into higher tier schools this cycle, I apply again the next year, but use different safety, lower-tier schools than the first cycle because the schools I withdrew from may not give me another chance. I think this plan is risky and that I should just skip this cycle and apply next year with a retake. He is absolutely against this in case my retaken MCAT isn't good enough and I've lost a year for nothing.

Please forgive me for saying this, and I mean no insult to your father, but this plan actually seems pretty stupid to me. The difference between a 515 and a 509 is not earth shattering for 508-514 schools. Whatever detriment there will be as a reapplicant is nothing compared to how much you will be damaging your chances now by artificially limiting the number of schools you are applying to this cycle, just to have some in reserve as first time applications next year.

You honestly should just apply to all your schools now with the 509. If things don't work out, and you think 6 points on the MCAT will make the difference, and you think you can get that next year, wash, rinse and repeat next year. Limiting your chances now just to have some first time schools to apply to next year makes zero sense.

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

This plan is crazy. You can't do justice to practice tests and the review of the results of the practice tests in less than 14 hours per week. You also need to bring your A-game to the secondaries because half-a55ing the secondaries is grounds for being tossed aside.

You have a lot of shadowing (almost too much) and "some volunteering". To me that seems like a lopsided application.

Do it right and you'll only do it once. It is a long and mentally/emotionally exhausing experience and if you apply late (you will be late at some schools with this plan) with an "average" application, you will not end up matriculating this time next year. Think about that.

Tell your father that this is your life, that you are prepared to support yourself during the gap year and that you'll retake the MCAT in January and apply for the first (and-- we hope-- the only time) next June.

Thanks so much for your thoughts. I didn't mention all the volunteering I have above, but I have about 350 hours total. Definitely could be improved upon, though. I also agree that this plan is kind of crazy, and the timing is definitely a big uncertainty about this plan. Tbh I agree on everything here. Thank you for putting it into perspective. I can even use the gap year to improve my volunteering.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Lol there is no low-tier schools especially with ur gpa/mcat

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

Please forgive me for saying this, and I mean no insult to your father, but this plan actually seems pretty stupid to me. The difference between a 515 and a 509 is not earth shattering for 508-514 schools. Whatever detriment there will be as a reapplicant is nothing compared to how much you will be damaging your chances now by artificially limiting the number of schools you are applying to this cycle, just to have some in reserve as first time applications next year.

You honestly should just apply to all your schools now with the 509. If things don't work out, and you think 6 points on the MCAT will make the difference, and you think you can get that next year, wash, rinse and repeat next year. Limiting your chances now just to have some first time schools to apply to next year makes zero sense.

Thanks for the advice! The artificial limiting of schools is the main thing that really gets me about this plan. It also means to have enough schools to apply to both years, I have to apply to some schools I may not be super excited about. I may go with the 509 this cycle but I can't shake this feeling that I could do so much better. Maybe retaking would just be ego-stroking. Not sure yet. I got my score back a week ago so my feelings about it are still kind of raw. That might explain my insistence on a retake even when my dad originally suggested I just apply with the 509. He made this crazy plan because I wanted the retake so bad! Thank you for your thoughts, though!

 

[KnightDoc]

Lol there is no low-tier schools especially with ur gpa/mcat

Ehh -- her GPA/MCAT puts her at the top end of a 62.1% acceptance rate on the AAMC grid (3.80+/506-509). Not too shabby when the national acceptance rate is 43%. Yeah, there are still low tiers for her.

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks for the advice! The artificial limiting of schools is the main thing that really gets me about this plan. It also means to have enough schools to apply to both years, I have to apply to some schools I may not be super excited about. I may go with the 509 this cycle but I can't shake this feeling that I could do so much better. Maybe retaking would just be ego-stroking. Not sure yet. I got my score back a week ago so my feelings about it are still kind of raw. That might explain my insistence on a retake even when my dad originally suggested I just apply with the 509. He made this crazy plan because I wanted the retake so bad! Thank you for your thoughts, though!

Take a few days to calm down. I understand how you are feeling after working so hard, but 6 points on one test are not going to determine your future. Your application looks like it will be very solid -- maybe not for NYU or Penn, but for a ton of other schools.

I really think you should take your full shot now, with a view towards reapplying next year with a higher score if the 509 really turns out to be what holds you back and you are in a position to significantly improve it next year. There is no reason to hold back on certain schools just to avoid being a reapplicant. Remember -- you will miss 100% of the shots you don't take. And, there are a lot of stories on SDN from people who are accepted at schools that rejected them in prior cycles. Being a reapplicant is not an automatic kiss of death if deficiencies in an application are later addressed.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Ehh -- her GPA/MCAT puts her at the top end of a 62.1% acceptance rate on the AAMC grid. Not too shabby when the national acceptance rate is 43%. Yeah, there are still low tiers for her.

That data includes schools like Howard who have low gpa/mcat but still nonetheless very selective in the students they want. I repeat, there is no low tier schools for op. Even if your at the 100% mark there is no guarantee of an acceptance, and OP is a long way away from that

 

[Goro]

Ahh, parents. Doing their best out of love, ignorance, or in your dad's case, outright stupidity to destroy your medical career.

I'd normally reach through your computer screen to smack you upside the head, but I can see that you've seen the errors of your ways.

BTW, with a 509, you need to have some DO schools on your list.

 

[KnightDoc]

That data includes schools like Howard who have low gpa/mcat but still nonetheless very selective in the students they want. I repeat, there is no low tier schools for op. Even if your at the 100% mark there is no guarantee of an acceptance, and OP is a long way away from that

Agreed about there never being a guarantee, but a 3.88 GPA is very decent, and a 509 is only slightly below the median of all accepted students.

I also agree that, for everyone, even 4.0/528, there is no such thing as low tier until after you have an acceptance, but I think there are plenty of schools that would love to have someone with a 3.88/509 and the rest of what's in OP's post. Doesn't make it an automatic A, but also doesn't mean a 515 is required to be competitive. JMHO based on what I have seen here over the past year.

 

[MyOdyssey]

It would be prudent for anyone to apply to all MD schools within his/her state as those tend to be highest yield.

Given that, OP will be a reapplicant at the highest yield schools if this plan falls through.

Regarding the MCAT retake, consider what else you would need to do to raise your score by 6, with the understanding that underpreparation could lead to a sub 509 score.

What are your chances at your state school(s) given your current stats?

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

Take a few days to calm down. I understand how you are feeling after working so hard, but 6 points on one test are not going to determine your future. Your application looks like it will be very solid -- maybe not for NYU or Penn, but for a ton of other schools.

I really think you should take your full shot now, with a view towards reapplying next year with a higher score if the 509 really turns out to be what holds you back and you are in a position to significantly improve it next year. There is no reason to hold back on certain schools just to avoid being a reapplicant. Remember -- you will miss 100% of the shots you don't take. And, there are a lot of stories on SDN from people who are accepted at schools that rejected them in prior cycles. Being a reapplicant is not an automatic kiss of death if deficiencies in an application are later addressed.

Thank you for this. Just had a bit of a heated conversation with my dad about it and he's totally against taking a whole year off to retake the MCAT because he's not confident I'll change my study habits and methods from last time and will just lose a year in the process. Our relationship is not really one where I can go against what he said either. However I am starting to get a little more comfortable with the idea of just applying with my 509 and seeing what happens, but making sure to only put schools I really would like to go to so I don't feel locked into a school I don't want to be at. There are some schools in the 511 range that I do like the mission and curriculum of, so I'll just try for those and see what happens. Thank you a ton for your advice. I think I can start to feel better about my score in the next few days!

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

Lol there is no low-tier schools especially with ur gpa/mcat

I totally get that my current stats only get me into lower-tier schools. Tiers are objective to me; the point is that I WANT to be attending a mid-tier school and I know my MCAT doesn't support it. That's why I'm thinking about a retake and considering this crazy plan in the first place.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thank you for this. Just had a bit of a heated conversation with my dad about it and he's totally against taking a whole year off to retake the MCAT because he's not confident I'll change my study habits and methods from last time and will just lose a year in the process. Our relationship is not really one where I can go against what he said either. However I am starting to get a little more comfortable with the idea of just applying with my 509 and seeing what happens, but making sure to only put schools I really would like to go to so I don't feel locked into a school I don't want to be at. There are some schools in the 511 range that I do like the mission and curriculum of, so I'll just try for those and see what happens. Thank you a ton for your advice. I think I can start to feel better about my score in the next few days!

There’s a good way to change your study habits/materials: take a MCAT prep course.

 

[deleted1027026]

Damn guys is 509 really that bad? I thought the average for MD matriculants was like 511?

 

[rx001]

Apply as much as possible. there is not much difference between 509 and 515. I had 512 but applied to all private schools in my range and to some schools which were interested in out of state students. I ended up matriculating int 509 median school. There is pretty much no difference between 509 school and 514 school. As goro said apply to few DO schools too.

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

It would be prudent for anyone to apply to all MD schools within his/her state as those tend to be highest yield.

Given that, OP will be a reapplicant at the highest yield schools if this plan falls through.

Regarding the MCAT retake, consider what else you would need to do to raise your score by 6, with the understanding that underpreparation could lead to a sub 509 score.

What are your chances at your state school(s) given your current stats?

I think my chances at my state school are decent, actually. My breakdown is 128/128/127/126 (psych/soc was the fluke low score, I'd never gotten below a 129 before) so my score is pretty well balanced. My app is also decent and I have done research at my state school as well. My issue is my own mental framework. All through the premed process I had it set in my mind that I wanted to leave my city/state at all costs, but now that its my best option, I wonder if not wanting to go to my state school (honestly, not a bad school or anything, just not amazing or what I want) is my subconscious reason for trying so hard for a retake and second cycle.

As for a retake, the only reason I am convinced that I can do better is because I didn't know about or use UWorld at all the first time, and my FL scores ranged between 511 and 514. I thought that by doing way more practice problems (it helped way more than content the first time around) I'd have a good chance of avoiding the fluke and doing even better. However, I wonder how I would fare this cycle if I just kept the 509. I think my biggest problem may be my own mental block against my state school.

 

[Med Ed]

Ehh -- her GPA/MCAT puts her at the top end of a 62.1% acceptance rate on the AAMC grid (3.80+/506-509). Not too shabby when the national acceptance rate is 43%. Yeah, there are still low tiers for her.

Since 509 is at the top of the 506-509 box you can do a regression analysis and determine that the true acceptance rate is closer to 66.75%.

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

Damn guys is 509 really that bad? I thought the average for MD matriculants was like 511?

It really isn't that bad. I had gone years CONVINCED I could do better (still am because my FL scores were higher) so my own expectations for myself were super inflated. I think maybe I can make peace with my score, though. Score release was only a week ago, though, so the wound is fresh. It doesn't help that I found out today that my friend who studied way less than me and never got a FL score above 508 got a fluke 516 (!!!) on her real exam. I think the problem just may be in my head. Thank you for putting this in perspective though, really needed that.

 

[Med Ed]

Damn guys is 509 really that bad? I thought the average for MD matriculants was like 511?

Here's a recent conversation I had:

Medical student: "I'm really interested in [specialty X] but the average Step 1 score for students who match into it is a 240."

Me: "But your Step 1 score is a 235."

Medical student: "Yeah, I know, it's below the average."

Me: "You do know what the mathematical term average means, right?"

They'll never find the body.

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

Apply as much as possible. there is not much difference between 509 and 515. I had 512 but applied to all private schools in my range and to some schools which were interested in out of state students. I ended up matriculating int 509 median school. There is pretty much no difference between 509 school and 514 school. As goro said apply to few DO schools too.

Thank you! This puts things in perspective. I think I may just go through with the 509 and apply a ton. I am even noticing that sometimes I like the curriculums and missions better at 511 schools than 513's and it just goes to prove your point that there's not a big difference in those schools. Thanks so much!

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

Here's a recent conversation I had:

Medical student: "I'm really interested in [specialty X] but the average Step 1 score for students who match into it is a 240."

Me: "But your Step 1 score is a 235."

Medical student: "Yeah, I know, it's below the average."

Me: "You do know what the mathematical term average means, right?"

They'll never find the body.

Haha, thank you for this. I really hope that the other merits of my application can get me accepted!

 

[Med Ed]

Thank you! This puts things in perspective. I think I may just go through with the 509 and apply a ton. I am even noticing that sometimes I like the curriculums and missions better at 511 schools than 513's and it just goes to prove your point that there's not a big difference in those schools. Thanks so much!

Most of this "tier" stuff is utter nonsense. The accreditation standards for schools are pretty rigorous, so even the "worst" MD school in the country will give you a solid education. There are some outlier schools at the top end that distort the perception of tiers/rankings, but for the vast majority of the applicant pool the goal is to get an acceptance. Period.

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

Most of this "tier" stuff is utter nonsense. The accreditation standards for schools are pretty rigorous, so even the "worst" MD school in the country will give you a solid education. There are some outlier schools at the top end that distort the perception of tiers/rankings, but for the vast majority of the applicant pool the goal is to get an acceptance. Period.

I'm also realizing that I still have a shot at competitive residencies if I work my butt off and that I'm not completely doomed if I go to a "bad" school. Thank you much!

 

[MyOdyssey]

I'm also realizing that I still have a shot at competitive residencies if I work my butt off and that I'm not completely doomed if I go to a "bad" school. Thank you much!

I suggest posting your medical school related info with identity redacted to the WAMC (“What are my chances?”) subforum on Student Doctor Network.

Some of the private schools with MCATs in the right range may require thousands of service hours and be reached for that reason.

The wise hands on there will help you craft a school list for this cycle.

Make sure you indicate your state of residence when you post there.

 

[Damson]

apply broadly. add new and new-ish schools like Nova MD to your list

also apply to DO schools. top schools like (OU-HCOM PCOM KCUCOM DMU OSU). also OU is true pass fail, and LECOM has a 3-year program

Sackler, UQ-Ochsner, USyd, and Flinders are viable international options

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Nothing wrong to aim for so called top tier schools, but once you got decent enough score to apply you should go ahead and apply to school within that score range and add few DO schools as other suggest. I would have advised you retake MCAT if you were getting 520s in practice tests and somehow it's dropped to 509 in actual, but it appears you are within points of you practice tests and so not worth retaking it.

 

[proudofmykids]

Also to remember, most schools will average your different mcat scores. So compare your current 509 to the expected average of 512 if you were successful pulling off a 515 test result.

 

[Med Ed]

Also to remember, most schools will average your different mcat scores. So compare your current 509 to the expected average of 522 if you were successful pulling off a 515 test result.

This is not necessarily true. Many schools will look at the most recent score for screening. A few take the highest subsection scores if there are multiple takes.

 

[deleted1027026]

apply broadly. add new and new-ish schools like Nova MD to your list

also apply to DO schools. top schools like (OU-HCOM PCOM KCUCOM DMU OSU). also OU is true pass fail, and LECOM has a 3-year program

Sackler, UQ-Ochsner, USyd, and Flinders are viable international options

You want OP to apply to Australian medical schools because they have a 3.88 GPA and 509 MCAT? This is ridiculous even by SDN standards. Lol

 

[LizzyM]

Nothing wrong to aim for so called top tier schools, but once you got decent enough score to apply you should go ahead and apply to school within that score range and add few DO schools as other suggest. I would have advised you retake MCAT if you were getting 520s in practice tests and somehow it's dropped to 509 in actual, but it appears you are within points of you practice tests and so not worth retaking it.

Please don't suggest that this OP apply to DO schools in this round. I've seen how this ends.... OP retakes MCAT in January and scores a 516. Gets admitted to DO school in February. Posts the question, "should I turn down DO and reapply to MD schools given my much better MCAT score?"

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Please don't suggest that this OP apply to DO schools in this round. I've seen how this ends.... OP retakes MCAT in January and scores a 516. Gets admitted to DO school in February. Posts the question, "should I turn down DO and reapply to MD schools given my much better MCAT score?"

I did not suggest DO only. I said add few DO schools.

 

[KnightDoc]

I did not suggest DO only. I said add few DO schools.

You're totally missing @LizzyM's point. It doesn't matter whether it's one DO school or 20. What she's saying is that, with OP's profile, she will be very attractive at DO schools, and if she applies to ANY, and has no luck with MD this cycle, and retakes the MCAT and does well, she will be back here asking for advice on turning down the DO acceptance and reapplying next cycle, at which point she will be slammed for turning down a chance to go to medical school to roll the dice again with a higher score, with everyone saying she shouldn't have applied DO if she had no intention of accepting an offer, wasting adcoms' time, etc.

Since the focus of OP's inquiry was retake vs. applying now, with no mention at all of DO, it is clear OP's focus is MD, so she shouldn't apply DO unless and until she fails at MD and fails on a MCAT retake.

 

[candbgirl]

I totally get that my current stats only get me into lower-tier schools. Tiers are objective to me; the point is that I WANT to be attending a mid-tier school and I know my MCAT doesn't support it. That's why I'm thinking about a retake and considering this crazy plan in the first place.

OP I think you need a gentle wake up call here. What you should want is to be accepted to A medical school. As you will soon learn there are absolutely no guarantees in this process. Statistically around 42-43 % of all applicants each cycle are accepted. Of this number about half receive one acceptance. This means 55%+ of all applicants are outright rejected. Including applicants with stellar applications.

I'm also realizing that I still have a shot at competitive residencies if I work my butt off and that I'm not completely doomed if I go to a "bad" school. Thank you much!

There are no “bad” medical schools and if you think going to a school you consider good will open you to competitive residencies without “working your butt off” you are wrong.

You have a lot to learn. Don’t apply to any school you will not attend even if it’s your only acceptance, because that just might happen. Make your own decisions about applying or retaking the MCAT or pursuing this convoluted process your father has developed for you! You are the one that has to live with it.
Oh and biology and one of the arts isn’t such a unique thing.

 

[Goro]

Thank you for this. Just had a bit of a heated conversation with my dad about it and he's totally against taking a whole year off to retake the MCAT because he's not confident I'll change my study habits and methods from last time and will just lose a year in the process. Our relationship is not really one where I can go against what he said either. However I am starting to get a little more comfortable with the idea of just applying with my 509 and seeing what happens, but making sure to only put schools I really would like to go to so I don't feel locked into a school I don't want to be at. There are some schools in the 511 range that I do like the mission and curriculum of, so I'll just try for those and see what happens. Thank you a ton for your advice. I think I can start to feel better about my score in the next few days!

Please give stats, state of residence and then we can give list to advise you on.

BTW, a 509 doesn't rule out schools with 511 medians. Have you taken stats????

OP will need DO schools on the list. I'm not sanguine about people who have the mindset that they're going to come off the bench and hit s grand slam to win the World Series for the Nationals. Meaning. going from a 509-> 515+, happens, but is unlikely.

 

[KnightDoc]

Please give stats, state of residence and then we can give list to advise you on.

BTW, a 509 doesn't rule out schools with 511 medians. Have you taken stats????

Stats were given in first post, which is very detailed and convoluted. The post was not asking for a list (apparently, an extensive and realistic one already exists), but, rather, for opinions on a unorthodox strategy that has been ripped apart by us. If you haven't already, please read the first post. It might cause you to finally solve for the time-space continuum and actually be able to break through the computer screen.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

You're totally missing @LizzyM's point. It doesn't matter whether it's one DO school or 20. What she's saying is that, with OP's profile, she will be very attractive at DO schools, and if she applies to ANY, and has no luck with MD this cycle, and retakes the MCAT and does well, she will be back here asking for advice on turning down the DO acceptance and reapplying next cycle, at which point she will be slammed for turning down a chance to go to medical school to roll the dice again with a higher score, with everyone saying she shouldn't have applied DO if she had no intention of accepting an offer, wasting adcoms' time, etc.

Since the focus of OP's inquiry was retake vs. applying now, with no mention at all of DO, it is clear OP's focus is MD, so she shouldn't apply DO unless and until she fails at MD and fails on a MCAT retake.

Got it won't OP be in a disadvantaged state as a re-applicant next year for MD even with higher MCAT?

 

[KnightDoc]

Got it won't OP be in a disadvantaged state as a re-applicant next year for MD even with higher MCAT?

???? Maybe, but disadvantaged state as compared to what? A first time applicant with the same stats? Sure. As a reapplicant who has addressed a deficiency? Isn't that the whole point of a reapplication?

In any event this is even more reason not to turn down a DO and close that door forever. @LizzyM is saying, and she's 1,000% correct, that nobody should apply DO unless they are serious about attending, and OP is by definition not serious about attending at this point in time if a MCAT retake is on the table.

 

[Goro]

Got it won't OP be in a disadvantaged state as a re-applicant next year for MD even with higher MCAT?

The bias against reapplicants is mostly SDN hype.

 

[greysdidntprepareme]

OP I think you need a gentle wake up call here. What you should want is to be accepted to A medical school. As you will soon learn there are absolutely no guarantees in this process. Statistically around 42-43 % of all applicants each cycle are accepted. Of this number about half receive one acceptance. This means 55%+ of all applicants are outright rejected. Including applicants with stellar applications.



There are no “bad” medical schools and if you think going to a school you consider good will open you to competitive residencies without “working your butt off” you are wrong.

You have a lot to learn. Don’t apply to any school you will not attend even if it’s your only acceptance, because that just might happen. Make your own decisions about applying or retaking the MCAT or pursuing this convoluted process your father has developed for you! You are the one that has to live with it.
Oh and biology and one of the arts isn’t such a unique thing.

Thank you for the advice! This post and just thinking about all of this yesterday did give me a wake up call and I'm realizing that chances are so low to getting in anywhere anyway and that in the end I am just trying to be a doctor that I should really be just looking for an acceptance at all. I think I'm just going to apply broadly this cycle so I have the best chances of getting into MD. If I don't get in anywhere, I'll even have a chance to do that retake I've been wanting so much lol. Someone else said the same thing about biology/arts being not that unique and I guess I just didn't know because I go to a smallish school in NE! I really hope my application is up to the task.

 

[KnightDoc]

The bias against reapplicants is mostly SDN hype.

Exactly how much is "mostly"? It's a fact that schools check to see if you are a reapplicant. Do they do this for no particular reason at all, or just to see if your sex or race changed from a prior cycle? Some schools even ask if you have previously applied anywhere else. Why bother if it's mostly hype?

Reapplicant admit rates are lower than first time applicants. I understand part of the reason is because they are inherently weaker, since they've already been rejected once, but still. If it were mostly hype, wouldn't reapplicants simply receive the same fresh look as anyone else, without regard to whether they applied before or what their applications looked like before? Do they, even at your school?

If not, then it's not mostly hype, just because some people improve and are eventually accepted. It means they are accepted in spite of the bias.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Is there a list of SDN hypes?

 

[ParaMagic1]

Exactly how much is "mostly"? It's a fact that schools check to see if you are a reapplicant. Do they do this for no particular reason at all, or just to see if your sex or race changed from a prior cycle? Some schools even ask if you have previously applied anywhere else. Why bother if it's mostly hype?

Reapplicant admit rates are lower than first time applicants. I understand part of the reason is because they are inherently weaker, since they've already been rejected once, but still. If it were mostly hype, wouldn't reapplicants simply receive the same fresh look as anyone else, without regard to whether they applied before or what their applications looked like before? Do they, even at your school?

If not, then it's not mostly hype, just because some people improve and are eventually accepted. It means they are accepted in spite of the bias.

Schools likely want to see how the re-applicant has changed. What has the re-applicant done to make themselves better than before. If you are a re-applicant that has done nothing to change your application, yet re-apply, schools deserve to know you really don't care about the process/getting better. This doesn't mean they are assessing you harder, rather, they are using information they have to assess your ability to "roll with the punches" and become better after failing (getting rejected).

 

[KnightDoc]

Schools likely want to see how the re-applicant has changed. What has the re-applicant done to make themselves better than before. If you are a re-applicant that has done nothing to change your application, yet re-apply, schools deserve to know you really don't care about the process/getting better. This doesn't mean they are assessing you harder, rather, they are using information they have to assess your ability to "roll with the punches" and become better after failing (getting rejected).

... in other words, assessing me harder, since it's a level of assessment first time applicants are not subjected to.

 

[ParaMagic1]

... in other words, assessing me harder, since it's a level of assessment first time applicants are not subjected to.

I wouldn't say this is "assessing you harder" but whatever helps you sleep at night.

If anything a re-applicant has the advantage... They've been through the cycle before and are privileged to process first-hand that the initial applicant wouldn't have.... lol