Is my medical career over?

[MonkeyArrow]

These two posts seem to contradict each other. Is plagiarizing bad when the whole paragraphs/references are blatantly copied? But plagiarism is forgiven in cases of forgetting to include footnotes and quotes?

The former you quoted is malicious and intentional, thus less likely to be forgiven. The latter may be accidental, and thus, more likely to be forgiven.

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[Lawpy]

The former you quoted is malicious and intentional, thus less likely to be forgiven. The latter may be accidental, and thus, more likely to be forgiven.

I guess the question is how do faculty determine what's accidental vs what's malicious/intentional?

 

[aformerstudent]

Anecdote: you knowing a guy

Not an anecdote: years or decades of experience on an admission committee seeing how different IA cases are handled.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to be some wise ass but "knowing a guy" is not an anecdote. I posted somewhere in the Caribbean forum a few months back about "a friend" who transferred out of SGU to Drexel and is now a very successful interventional radiologist. When I posted that, my critics called it an "anecdote" until I had to post his healthgrades and doximity profiles which clearly showed a three year attendance at Drexel.

I don't deal in alternative facts lol. I'm a straight shooter.

 

[gyngyn]

It's certainly looking like this thread's career is over.
If anyone has thoughts for OP that have not been thoroughly covered, now would be the time to make them.

 

[aformerstudent]

• (1)You're working on a paper with multiple citations throughout, and accidentally delete a footnote or move it to a different sentence while rearranging sentences. Boom, you've plagiarized because you didn't cite the statistic or idea you quoted in that sentence. And yes, I have seen people at my school who would NEVER cheat get in trouble for this.
• (2)You have done lots of reading on a particular topic, and while writing your own sentence attempting to paraphrase without referring back to the paper, you accidentally use the same phrasing as the original and don't put it in quotation marks. That's plagiarism.

Heck, when I was in 7th grade I once got accused of plagiarism on some dumb paper for my art class because the teacher said my writing was "above grade level"...I was reading at a college level at the time (and I didn't plagiarize). What if that had happened in 9th grade and my principal had been less reasonable and believed the art teacher instead of me, and something went on my transcript? Would I have gotten into a four year college?

ETA: Now, of course there are people who purposefully plagiarize like what LizzyM describes below - those people should be punished appropriately. But I don't mind cutting a little slack to somebody who unintentionally forgot to put in a single parenthetical citation.

And you still didn't answer my question...do you think cheating/plagiarism is unethical or not? You said cheating is no biggie because everybody does it in one post and criticized someone for having leniency about unintentional plagiarism in the next. You don't sense the cognitive dissonance there?

1. Is not plagiarism. It's a MISTAKE; it can be explained away. Worst case, you can request to resubmit another edited copy. You don't have to sit in front of the school board to explain this.

2. Yeah, that's plagiarism and some people use MORE than just a few sentences.

As I had stated earlier, cheating is a gray area.

I'll give you an example. When I was a kid, we had something called "Book It." You got free Pizza Hut pizza for reading books. This is how I looked at that situation. My English was pretty damn good for a fifth grader so why the hell would I waste my time reading more books when I was the last person that needed to "read more." So what I did was I tricked my mom to sign the Book It slips and I got free pizza. Who died? I got my pizza. No biggie. No body lost.

If you stage an elaborate scheme and get someone to take a standardized exam for you, then yeah that is bad and should be punished because somebody is losing in that situation.

Everything else regarding cheating at school falls in between those extremes and with regards to the original argument, the OP is NOWHERE near the latter.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

It's not so cut and dry. As I mentioned, there is a spectrum. We're a lot harsher at one end of it. And some professors are dinguses at the other end of the spectrum too.
How the applicant own these particular transgressions also is a factor.

You're right on all those counts, I just don't understand why you don't apply this consistently across the spectrum. Why are you assuming the plagiarism is accidental and assuming letting someone copy off their answers is intentional? Can plagiarism not be intentional, and can't someone have a cheater steal their answers without being aware of it?

Let's just call it what it is. Cheating is bad and reflects poorly on your application. Whether or not it is a death knell depends on the type of transgression, how long ago it was, what you learned from it, where you apply, who is reviewing your app, and a thousand other factors.

Saying the OP's chance are 0% is not helpful nor realistic. Saying the OP's chances are very slim but not impossible is realistic.

 

[GregoryHouseCirca1995]

This thread is so derailed

 

[Med Ed]

If anyone has thoughts for OP that have not been thoroughly covered, now would be the time to make them.

 

[aformerstudent]

OP, or whoever is in this spot. Ignore the hate. Keep moving forward. The only thing you have to ask yourself is if you are a bad person. If you're a bad person and you have bad intentions, then do not go into medicine at all. Which type of person is worse, someone who cheated to stay alive or someone who wants to become a doctor just to become wealthy?

You're right on all those counts, I just don't understand why you don't apply this consistently across the spectrum. Why are you assuming the plagiarism is accidental and assuming letting someone copy off their answers is intentional? Can plagiarism not be intentional, and can't someone have a cheater steal their answers without being aware of it?

Let's just call it what it is. Cheating is bad and reflects poorly on your application. Whether or not it is a death knell depends on the type of transgression, how long ago it was, what you learned from it, where you apply, who is reviewing your app, and a thousand other factors.

Saying the OP's chance are 0% is not helpful nor realistic. Saying the OP's chances are very slim but not impossible is realistic.

^This is a wise person right here.

 

[aformerstudent]

One hand washes the other and both wash the face.

 

[gyngyn]

I see.