Is my TA being unfair?

[hellocakes]

Hello guys,

I am experiencing a problem in my Organic Chemistry I Lab. I have two other partners in my lab group, one being very prepared and the other partner being lackadaisical and unprepared. For our third lab, we had to analyze analgesics and an unknown sample using TLC and isolate β-carotene from spinach leaves using column chromatography. Because the two objectives were unrelated, the TA asked for the work to be divided. I decided to execute the analgesics TLC experiment. I successfully carried out the lab by receiving reasonable Rf values for the compounds based on their polarity. However, the unprepared partner in my group decided to do the isolation of β-carotene. I didn't think much of letting him complete this task on his own because I assumed this was an independent project by the way my TA divided the work. When I completed my project, I noticed he was still working on his, so I decided to help him. However, the isolation of β-carotene was unsuccessful due to an error in the beginning steps of the process. I was not associated with this whatsoever since I was carrying out the TLC experiment.
Yesterday, I received my results grade from Lab 3 and I received a 7/10, knocking my grade down to a B. Curious as to how I could improve this, I emailed my TA and asked why I received a 7/10 for my results. The syllabus is obscure and does not elaborate on the grading protocol used to determine the grade of the results. My TA replied to me and told me that the grade was calculated based on having consistent Rf values and correct identification of the unknown substance and how accurate the crude and purified β-carotene was compared to the standard β-carotene. I received full points for the first part since I successfully demonstrated my knowledge in TLC. However, I only received 2/5 points for part two since the two experimental compounds did not match the standard whatsoever.
After that reply, I expressed to my TA my unfavorable opinion towards my lab partner's work ethic. In a nice and respectful manner, I asked my TA if there was any way we could work around this since I am not responsible for my lab partner's work ethic. The TA told me that he has little sympathy for me whatsoever since I complete the "easiest" parts of the experiment. I found this a bit weird because all lab partners should be intellectually stimulated despite their commitment to the class. He told me that I need to do the more cumbersome parts of the lab since I would not be able to depend on my lab partner. In a nutshell, my TA is telling me that I need to take control and watch over my lab partner. As I previously stated, every member of the lab should be prepared to execute their designated part of the lab even if the material is arduous.
Upset with this response, I have been asking my friends how the results are being graded in their classes. Their TA's grade their results based on completeness; the whole group is not penalized if somebody is clueless as to what is going on. The syllabus does not state whether the results will be graded on accuracy or completeness or both.
In addition to this, my TA often yells and belittles his students. He hasn't done this to me, but he has done it to my lab partner (the unprepared one). He will use discouraging language (i.e. "stupid")that causes students to be scared of him. Also, he is impatient. Whenever a lab takes a long time, he will become frustrated and refuse to help students. This is potentially dangerous as undergraduates are working with new and foreign organic chemicals.

Is my next step to contact the lab coordinator? How should I present my situation to the lab coordinator? Should I bring my other lab partner (prepared one) with me to talk to the lab coordinator?

I apologize if this post is wordy. It's my first time posting on SDN. Thank you for your help.

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[sliceofbread136]

No that's pretty stupid. I would go over this guy's head

 

[700825]

Yeah I feel like thats pretty unfair. As for next steps in the process, as someone who had to deal with a similarly unfortunate TA situation, I would recommend first meeting with your advisor and expressing your concerns to them. From there they can advise you on the proper protocol. In my experiences, it went TA-> Professor of the course-> Chair of the department-> Dean of the college of arts and sciences. Keep every response you get at each level and prepare for it to be a slow and tedious process. The situation sucks, but best of luck!

 

[Luka75]

No that's pretty stupid. I would go over this guy's head

ASAP!

 

[blackroses]

I highly doubt your professor, department chair, or dean will be willing to adjust your grade. Multiple people working independently on parts of the procedures is not in any way abnormal, nor is it abnormal for each student to be graded for each part of the experiment, even if someone else was "in charge" of that portion. This is exactly how many organic chemistry labs are run. In fact, I did the exact same lab you just described and it was run the exact same way.

Unfortunately, part of doing many labs is figuring out how to wrangle your partner(s) into what they need to do... or just figuring out how to keep them from touching anything at all.

The safety issues are something else entirely and should be brought to the attention of either the professor or the chemistry department safety officer (I promise you have one).

 

[JustAPhD]

As for your grade, live as a group and die as a group. Talk some sense into your partner.

As for the TA, might be worth chatting with your Prof and voicing your concerns with the TA's professionalism.

 

[dnekkmd]

.

 

[Lannister]

I think the grade is fair, but the TA's attitude is not. Definitely talk to someone.
As a side note, I find it very bizarre that you're made to work in groups for ochem lab. That would suck.

 

[blackroses]

I think the grade is fair, but the TA's attitude is not. Definitely talk to someone.
As a side note, I find it very bizarre that you're made to work in groups for ochem lab. That would suck.

It's not uncommon at smaller schools. The biggest issue is the cost of glassware - the school just can't fund a full set of glassware for every student that goes through the lab.

 

[Lannister]

It's not uncommon at smaller schools. The biggest issue is the cost of glassware - the school just can't fund a full set of glassware for every student that goes through the lab.

I see. I went to a smaller school and we worked alone, guess I should consider myself lucky.

 

[wagonwheel23]

I was a TA for a Biochemistry lab course. Myself, other TAs, the support staff, and the Professor were very cognizant of lab partners that did not carry their weight and assured that they did not negatively affect their lab partner's grade.

Your TA is in the wrong. Go over his head, but do not do it over email. Meet with someone. It's often best not to leave a paper trail.

 

[freak7]

I see. I went to a smaller school and we worked alone, guess I should consider myself lucky.

I just took night-time lab section. Got out at 10:20pm and only had maybe 5 other people in my section. So nice.

 

[Lucca]

As for your grade, live as a group and die as a group. Talk some sense into your partner.

As for the TA, might be worth chatting with your Prof and voicing your concerns with the TA's professionalism.

I agree with this. TAs behavior in the lab section is unprofessional if what you are saying is accurate and true.

That being said, *never* throw your lab partner under the bus like that to improve your grade. Talk to your lab partner and help them get organized if they are having a hard time with that. If they just dont care, well sometimes you have to pickup the extra slack and you will have to keep and eye on them during the experiment to make sure everything is going A-OK. I TA for a non lab course and if a student complained about a group members work ethic in an attempt to raise their grade that would drop my sympathy for them down to 0%.

Group Labs are more about learning how to work effectively as a team so you all succeed together than learning science. 99% of the time you will learn very little science in a lab course

 

[Goro]

Talk to the Professor.

Hello guys,

I am experiencing a problem in my Organic Chemistry I Lab. I have two other partners in my lab group, one being very prepared and the other partner being lackadaisical and unprepared. For our third lab, we had to analyze analgesics and an unknown sample using TLC and isolate β-carotene from spinach leaves using column chromatography. Because the two objectives were unrelated, the TA asked for the work to be divided. I decided to execute the analgesics TLC experiment. I successfully carried out the lab by receiving reasonable Rf values for the compounds based on their polarity. However, the unprepared partner in my group decided to do the isolation of β-carotene. I didn't think much of letting him complete this task on his own because I assumed this was an independent project by the way my TA divided the work. When I completed my project, I noticed he was still working on his, so I decided to help him. However, the isolation of β-carotene was unsuccessful due to an error in the beginning steps of the process. I was not associated with this whatsoever since I was carrying out the TLC experiment.
Yesterday, I received my results grade from Lab 3 and I received a 7/10, knocking my grade down to a B. Curious as to how I could improve this, I emailed my TA and asked why I received a 7/10 for my results. The syllabus is obscure and does not elaborate on the grading protocol used to determine the grade of the results. My TA replied to me and told me that the grade was calculated based on having consistent Rf values and correct identification of the unknown substance and how accurate the crude and purified β-carotene was compared to the standard β-carotene. I received full points for the first part since I successfully demonstrated my knowledge in TLC. However, I only received 2/5 points for part two since the two experimental compounds did not match the standard whatsoever.
After that reply, I expressed to my TA my unfavorable opinion towards my lab partner's work ethic. In a nice and respectful manner, I asked my TA if there was any way we could work around this since I am not responsible for my lab partner's work ethic. The TA told me that he has little sympathy for me whatsoever since I complete the "easiest" parts of the experiment. I found this a bit weird because all lab partners should be intellectually stimulated despite their commitment to the class. He told me that I need to do the more cumbersome parts of the lab since I would not be able to depend on my lab partner. In a nutshell, my TA is telling me that I need to take control and watch over my lab partner. As I previously stated, every member of the lab should be prepared to execute their designated part of the lab even if the material is arduous.
Upset with this response, I have been asking my friends how the results are being graded in their classes. Their TA's grade their results based on completeness; the whole group is not penalized if somebody is clueless as to what is going on. The syllabus does not state whether the results will be graded on accuracy or completeness or both.
In addition to this, my TA often yells and belittles his students. He hasn't done this to me, but he has done it to my lab partner (the unprepared one). He will use discouraging language (i.e. "stupid")that causes students to be scared of him. Also, he is impatient. Whenever a lab takes a long time, he will become frustrated and refuse to help students. This is potentially dangerous as undergraduates are working with new and foreign organic chemicals.

Is my next step to contact the lab coordinator? How should I present my situation to the lab coordinator? Should I bring my other lab partner (prepared one) with me to talk to the lab coordinator?

I apologize if this post is wordy. It's my first time posting on SDN. Thank you for your help.

 

[oogieboogie123r]

Talk to the professor but come across it like you're generally interested in how the grading is done and what you can do to avoid this in the future, rather than feeling bitter about what your lab partner didn't do and your grade. (And trust me, I understand you're frustrated!) I'm also unsure why the TAs are grading differently here, but maybe that's how the department works?

Personally, I would stay away from talking about the TA's professionalism unless he's been singling you out. I think it's very easy to get heated about things you're passionate about, and I worry that bringing up your TA's past behaviour (even if bad) will come across as sour grapes!

(Note - When I was a TA, I had two overheads. One was a lab head who prepared chemicals (useless in this case) and the other was the professor managing the course. The latter was the one who dealt with grade issues).

EDIT: Actually, I take what I said about the TA back, upon reading this again. I think you should talk to your lab head about your TA calling you guys stupid & refusing to help. That's the key, talk about that and not his exchange in the email. But if you talk to the professor managing the course, make it VERY clear you're having two separate conversations.

EDIT again: I had to have this conversation once with a professor on campus. Not exactly my favorite, having to talk about personal issues and professionalism issues. Not an easy convo to have! But while mine didn't go anyway, I know said-professor was not rehired.

 

[wb100]

Talk to the professor. Our TAs were grading our labs differently and a student talked to the professor who wasn't aware with the discrepancy of grading. He made it that as long you carried out the experiment you got full credit. A lot of times the professor is out of the loop and if students are going to get graded on accuracy then the whole class should be. It would be an unfair disadvantage if all sections were not graded fairly (some people have higher grades for same amount of work) which can tip the curve of the class.


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[piii]

Talk to the professor but be aware he probably won't care enough to do anything about it. You also don't want to piss off a TA who will still be grading you. Your first thing should be trying to fix the problem at its source: your lab partner. It's kind of shady that you are trying to go behind his or her back and blame everything on them when you could very well be oblivious to something that is your own fault.

 

[hamstergang]

I would caution you to separate the 2 issues you bring up. If you go to your professor and complain about grading and that the TA is mean, you'll just seem like a complainer that needs to work things out with the TA. If you weren't going to complain about the TA being mean until he gave you a grade you didn't like, it's a little hard to believe you actually care about it or view it as a safety issue.

 

[aldol16]

Look. This is one grade from one lab. If it affects your overall grade, then you probably haven't been doing well to begin with. I do not see a problem with your TA assigning grades based on the results of your team. Science is a team effort. So is medicine. Your teammate being prepared is not your fault and maybe it's not fair that you have to pick up the slack, but that's what you do. Afterwards, you make sure that your teammate knows to be prepared and to not let the team down. That's how you address this. By not caring about the other members of your team and working only on your self-chosen part of the project, you're not being a very good team player.

The following is the bigger problem to me:

In addition to this, my TA often yells and belittles his students. He hasn't done this to me, but he has done it to my lab partner (the unprepared one). He will use discouraging language (i.e. "stupid")that causes students to be scared of him. Also, he is impatient. Whenever a lab takes a long time, he will become frustrated and refuse to help students. This is potentially dangerous as undergraduates are working with new and foreign organic chemicals.

No TA should use that sort of language towards students. It's uncalled for. This is something that you should address with the TA's supervisor. If there's an anonymous way to do this, that's better in order to prevent any retaliation. However, intro organic labs usually don't make undergraduates work with anything too dangerous. If the chemical itself is dangerous, you're probably not working with a large enough quantity of it to seriously injure yourself. Practice good lab technique and you'll be fine.