fldoctorgirl

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Hello SDN!

I am still just a clueless pre-med currently going through the application cycle, but as someone who has wanted to be a doctor for as long as they can remember (yep, I'm that person), I've always put some thought into possible specialties.

Although I know 2048945894% that my mind will probably change thousands of times (trust me, I totally embrace my cluelessness) and as someone who is open to everything, I just have a few questions about specific fields that interest me.

Particularly, I have recently become interested in ob/gyn for several reasons that aren't really necessary to go into for this post. My question is: is ob/gyn considered primary care? I know that the GME world for DOs is changing majorly right now, but does anyone have any thoughts on the potential for DOs to match into ob/gyn now and in the future?

Other potentially interesting specialities to me are IM --> cardiology & general surgery (with possible specialization). If anyone would also care to comment about those two fields, I will gladly listen.

[Yes, I know that ultimately, going MD is always "better" to maximize match chances and residency opportunities. However, I am not interested in anything super-competitive and just want to be a doctor. I would appreciate it if this thread could not drift off into the typical SDN MD-vs-DO battle.]
 
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AspiringD0c

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Based on the fact that the NHSC (I believe that's the abbreviation of the scholarship for primary care physicians) includes OBGYN, I would include it under primary care. To my understanding, it's fairly common for DOs to go into it. Same deal with IM if I'm not mistaken. But good luck to you! I'm actually considering those three specialities, and a couple of others, as well!
 
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fldoctorgirl

fldoctorgirl

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Based on the fact that the NHSC (I believe that's the abbreviation of the scholarship for primary care physicians) includes OBGYN, I would include it under primary care. To my understanding, it's fairly common for DOs to go into it. Same deal with IM if I'm not mistaken. But good luck to you! I'm actually considering those three specialities, and a couple of others, as well!
Nice!! Thanks for the response :)
 

fourandtwo

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OBGYN is considered primary care. Psychiatry is also included in the NHSC scholarship, but I was under the impression it's not primary care. Or maybe it's transitioning?
 

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Why does it matter?
PCPs are the backbone of healthcare. They are the first point of contact for any patient. This is especially important for those who want to make a difference in underserved populations.
 
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fldoctorgirl

fldoctorgirl

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Why does it matter?
Just curious what my options are if I end up going to a DO school.

The question was more about the ability for DOs to match into ob/gyn. I know generally there is the stigma that DOs are limited to primary care specialties, so that's where the question came from.
 
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allantois

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PCPs are the backbone of healthcare. They are the first point of contact for any patient. This is especially important for those who want to make a difference in underserved populations.
I understand. I'm just wondering why it matters how OB GYN is classified. The OP didn't really express an interest in primary care
 

allantois

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Just curious what my options are if I end up going to a DO school.

The question was more about the ability for DOs to match into ob/gyn. I know generally there is the stigma that DOs are limited to primary care specialties, so that's where the question came from.
I would look at the schools you apply for their matching lists into OB
 
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I would look at the schools you apply for their matching lists into OB
I have! I'm just not exactly sure what # counts as a decent amount of OB matches.
 

Peach Newport

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There is no "definitive" definition of Primary Care. Everyone has their own metrics as to what belongs in primary care. Different schools seem to have different opinions

The most common definition I've seen is the "Big 4": FM, IM, Peds, and OB/GYN.

The second most common I've seen is FM, IM, and peds. These people consider OB/GYN more of a specialty - I guess the thinking is that the "woman stuff" could be handled by an FM doc.

The most stringent I've seen is that ONLY family medicine counts as primary care.

I've also seen some include Psychiatry, and some include EM.
 
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There is no "definitive" definition of Primary Care. Everyone has their own metrics as to what belongs in primary care. Different schools seem to have different opinions

The most common definition I've seen is the "Big 4": FM, IM, Peds, and OB/GYN.

The second most common I've seen is FM, IM, and peds. These people consider OB/GYN more of a specialty - I guess the thinking is that the "woman stuff" could be handled by an FM doc.

The most stringent I've seen is that ONLY family medicine counts as primary care.

I've also seen some include Psychiatry, and some include EM.
What is your opinion on the ability to match OB as a DO (assuming one doesn't care about going to a top-tier residency)?
 
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Peach Newport

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What is your opinion on the ability to match OB as a DO (assuming one doesn't care about going to a top-tier residency)?
On a 1-10 scale from rural family medicine to academic Jewish dermatology, Its probably around a 5. Definitely possible, especially if geography isn't particularly important. It's not brutally competitive, but with crappy scores you're gonna have a problem.

There are a fair amount of AOA (Osteopathic) programs, and a fair number of them will survive the merger. But even without AOA programs, DOs seem to do decently well in the ACGME match, especially community programs.

It seems to me though, that lots of students who start med school wanting to do OB/GYN don't end up doing it. My guess is that most can't stand the idea of doing an OB residency. It's a notoriously difficult, miserable, and often abusive way to spend 4 years.

Search "Osteopathic charting outcomes in the match." It will give you hard numbers on the % of DOs that matched. To my memory, if you ranked enough programs the number was like 70-80%
 
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WedgeDawg

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You can practice primary care as an OBGYN, and you will learn how to during residency, but you have more choice when it comes to practice. You can make your practice purely OB, purely gyn onc, purely urogyn, purely primary care OBGYN, purely another specialty of OBGYN, or a mix of any of these. But you'll have to tools to do any of them coming out of residency.
 
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On a 1-10 scale from rural family medicine to academic Jewish dermatology, Its probably around a 5. Definitely possible, especially if geography isn't particularly important. It's not brutally competitive, but with crappy scores you're gonna have a problem.

There are a fair amount of AOA (Osteopathic) programs, and a fair number of them will survive the merger. But even without AOA programs, DOs seem to do decently well in the ACGME match, especially community programs.

It seems to me though, that lots of students who start med school wanting to do OB/GYN don't end up doing it. My guess is that most can't stand the idea of doing an OB residency. It's a notoriously difficult, miserable, and often abusive way to spend 4 years.

Search "Osteopathic charting outcomes in the match." It will give you hard numbers on the % of DOs that matched. To my memory, if you ranked enough programs the number was like 70-80%
Thank you!!! This is exactly the info I was looking for.

You can practice primary care as an OBGYN, and you will learn how to during residency, but you have more choice when it comes to practice. You can make your practice purely OB, purely gyn onc, purely urogyn, purely primary care OBGYN, purely another specialty of OBGYN, or a mix of any of these. But you'll have to tools to do any of them coming out of residency.
This is actually one of the things that attracts me to the specialty...there are so many options when it comes to constructing your practice vision, and you can always change what you're doing if you're unhappy or pursue fellowships.
 
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WedgeDawg

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Thank you!!! This is exactly the info I was looking for.


This is actually one of the things that attracts me to the specialty...there are so many options when it comes to constructing your practice vision, and you can always change what you're doing if you're unhappy or pursue fellowships.
Just be warned that several OBGYN fellowships (particularly MFM and urogyn) are very competitive to match into. That doesn't necessarily mean that you can make urogyn or MFM part of your practice, just that it's harder to get a job with a hospital or group if you don't have the fellowship training. It's easier coming from an academic program to do these fellowships, and definitely harder coming from a community program.
 
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fldoctorgirl

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Just be warned that several OBGYN fellowships (particularly MFM and urogyn) are very competitive to match into. That doesn't necessarily mean that you can make urogyn or MFM part of your practice, just that it's harder to get a job with a hospital or group if you don't have the fellowship training. It's easier coming from an academic program to do these fellowships, and definitely harder coming from a community program.
Thank you! I appreciate the info.


In other news, the stats for general surgery look grim....out of 111 applicants: 56 matched, 55 unmatched :confused:
 

Peach Newport

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Just be warned that several OBGYN fellowships (particularly MFM and urogyn) are very competitive to match into. That doesn't necessarily mean that you can make urogyn or MFM part of your practice, just that it's harder to get a job with a hospital or group if you don't have the fellowship training. It's easier coming from an academic program to do these fellowships, and definitely harder coming from a community program.
Wait, you're telling me that a board-certified OB/GYN will have problems getting a job without fellowship? I have not heard this before, and I'm suspicious.

...or did you mean that they'll have trouble getting a job as, say, a maternal-fetal medicine doc without the fellowship?
 

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Wait, you're telling me that a board-certified OB/GYN will have problems getting a job without fellowship? I have not heard this before, and I'm suspicious.
No I'm saying that certain fellowships are hard to match into and it will be difficult (though possible in certain locations) to practice exclusively subspecialty OBGYN without a fellowship. Sorry, I should have clarified "job" to be "job practicing mostly or exclusively that aspect of OBGYN"
 

Peach Newport

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No I'm saying that certain fellowships are hard to match into and it will be difficult (though possible in certain locations) to practice exclusively subspecialty OBGYN without a fellowship.
Ah yes. I actually would have though it would be impossible to get a job as a specialist without the fellowship, but what do I know.
 

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Ah yes. I actually would have though it would be impossible to get a job as a specialist without the fellowship, but what do I know.
Unfortunately I can't give you a definitive answer to that question but its probably closer to "impossible" than it is to "extremely easy"
 
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@WedgeDawg or Peach, can either of you comment about obtaining IM fellowships as a DO? It doesn't seem to be too difficult to get a residency in IM as a DO, but what about if one was interested in pursuing a cardiology fellowship afterwards?
 
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@WedgeDawg or Peach, can either of you comment about obtaining IM fellowships as a DO? It doesn't seem to be too difficult to get a residency in IM as a DO, but what about if one was interested in pursuing a cardiology fellowship afterwards?
Harder but not impossible coming from a community program. Won't be too much of a struggle if you're at an academic program, but of course those are harder to match than community programs. Other than that, I don't have too much info, sorry :(

Probably easier to get a cards fellowship than it is to get an MFM or urogyn fellowship
 
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Harder but not impossible coming from a community program. Won't be too much of a struggle if you're at an academic program, but of course those are harder to match than community programs. Other than that, I don't have too much info, sorry :(

Probably easier to get a cards fellowship than it is to get an MFM or urogyn fellowship
Your info is all very helpful, thank you!
 
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AnatomyGrey12

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I know generally there is the stigma that DOs are limited to primary care specialties, so that's where the question came from.
OB is primary care, and fewer and fewer DOs are going into primary care every year. It's now about 50/50
In other news, the stats for general surgery look grim....out of 111 applicants: 56 matched, 55 unmatched :confused:
I've elaborated in other posts but it sufficeth me to say that these numbers are inflated by a number of factors. GS is a reasonable goal for a decently competitive DO student (like top half of the class, 230+ Step, some research, decent personality, etc.)

Edit: as to your original question Wedge Dawg gave excellent advice
 
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OB is primary care, and fewer and fewer DOs are going into primary care every year. It's now about 50/50


I've elaborated in other posts but it sufficeth me to say that these numbers are inflated by a number of factors. GS is a reasonable goal for a decently competitive DO student (like top half of the class, 230+ Step, some research, decent personality, etc.)

Edit: as to your original question Wedge Dawg gave excellent advice
Thanks for your input!
 

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@WedgeDawg or Peach, can either of you comment about obtaining IM fellowships as a DO? It doesn't seem to be too difficult to get a residency in IM as a DO, but what about if one was interested in pursuing a cardiology fellowship afterwards?
A friend of mine matched into a DO-GI fellowship this year. His stats were: Step 1: 226, Step 2: 254, Comlex 1: around 600, not sure about Comlex 2, passed CS.

I would assume the same competitiveness for the Cardio fellowship. So it's definitely doable, as long as you have the stats for it.
 
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A friend of mine matched into a DO-GI fellowship this year. His stats were: Step 1: 226, Step 2: 254, Comlex 1: around 600, not sure about Comlex 2, passed CS.

I would assume the same competitiveness for the Cardio fellowship. So it's definitely doable, as long as you have the stats for it.
GI is somewhat more competitive than Cardio and is the toughest IM fellowship to match. The better the residency program you match into the better your chances at matching into these competitive fellowships.
 
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