Is Pharmacy really worth the risk?

[sincerelyyme]

So I'm in a pre-pharmacy program at a state university. It's time to register for classes and I'm having a really hard time deciding if I still want to stick with pharmacy. I don't want to waste another year doing pharmacy pre-reqs and then decide that it's not worth the risk to get a PharmD degree, considering all of the negative comments on this forum. One of the main factors that concern people is the debt associated with going to Pharmacy school. I doubt that I will have as much debt coming out of a state university, so I guess there isn't really much of a loss, money/debt-wise. However, time would undoubtedly be wasted.
Any thoughts/comments are appreciated.

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[bacillus1]

Well my cousin is going to graphic design school because she is doing what she wants to do. Some would regard that as a waste of time. If you want to do pharmacy, go for it. If you don't, and can think of a better option for yourself, go for that

 

[crazybob]

So I'm in a pre-pharmacy program at a state university. It's time to register for classes and I'm having a really hard time deciding if I still want to stick with pharmacy. I don't want to waste another year doing pharmacy pre-reqs and then decide that it's not worth the risk to get a PharmD degree, considering all of the negative comments on this forum. One of the main factors that concern people is the debt associated with going to Pharmacy school. I doubt that I will have as much debt coming out of a state university, so I guess there isn't really much of a loss, money/debt-wise. However, time would undoubtedly be wasted.
Any thoughts/comments are appreciated.

Go out and talk to pharmacists and pharmacy students instead of reading comments on the internet.

People will say anything on the internet, and you really shouldn't believe all of it.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Well my cousin is going to graphic design school because she is doing what she wants to do. Some would regard that as a waste of time. If you want to do pharmacy, go for it. If you don't, and can think of a better option for yourself, go for that

That is great advice.

And to echo Bob: Take what you read here, good and bad, with a grain of salt. Particularly from certain posters for the negative... I'm pretty sure we have recurring trolls that come here JUST to stir the pot (Rxstudent and Somatic).

 

[Deja]

well, what would you want to do if you decide to not do pharmacy? I have ppl in my class who went to dental or medical school then came to pharmacy, there is also a girl in my class, after a few weeks, decided she would regret it if she didn't apply for medical school, so that's what she did. Follow your heart! lol My engineer major frds all found well paying jobs, altho idk too much about that field other than the 3 or 4 of my frds that graduated recently (there are alot of different field in engineering, so that makes a difference too i guess)

Also, I had a finance degree before I got in, on the day of my graduation, 50% of my classmates did not secure a job... so if you are going to choose something else, choose wisely

 

[tojh1]

Completely agree with everyone. Why don't you try out different things before you get too deep into pharmacy. throughout my college career I tried everything from tech jobs, teaching, working at hospitals, dental clinics, and even in the restaurant business. I thought I would go into researching for 3 years of my college life (bio degree), but then switched to pharmacy.

Just make sure you don't regret, and like the people above posted... you have to make your decisions because this forum is still based on individuals own thought. good luck deciding!

 

[thecoolpharmboi]

That is great advice.

And to echo Bob: Take what you read here, good and bad, with a grain of salt. Particularly from certain posters for the negative... I'm pretty sure we have recurring trolls that come here JUST to stir the pot (Rxstudent and Somatic).

True that.

@OP: I think if you REALLY want to know if pharmacy is for you, I suggest going to shadow at a pharmacy or volunteer. That's what I did before anything. As Passion4Sci said, take everything here (good and bad) with a grain of salt .

 

[Somatic]

That is great advice.

And to echo Bob: Take what you read here, good and bad, with a grain of salt. Particularly from certain posters for the negative... I'm pretty sure we have recurring trolls that come here JUST to stir the pot (Rxstudent and Somatic).

Not true. I am only giving honest advice and have plenty of evidence to back up my claims. I'm trying to get people to actually do something about the major threats facing our profession. But surprise surprise I am a bad guy for getting people to face reality... And no one wants to do anything about it

 

[veyep]

So I'm in a pre-pharmacy program at a state university. It's time to register for classes and I'm having a really hard time deciding if I still want to stick with pharmacy. I don't want to waste another year doing pharmacy pre-reqs and then decide that it's not worth the risk to get a PharmD degree, considering all of the negative comments on this forum. One of the main factors that concern people is the debt associated with going to Pharmacy school. I doubt that I will have as much debt coming out of a state university, so I guess there isn't really much of a loss, money/debt-wise. However, time would undoubtedly be wasted.
Any thoughts/comments are appreciated.

I know a family friend who was a cardiologist (med school + residency) and now is an interior designer! Another person is a journalist (former doctor) for a newspaper! I knew a dentist who opened up a restaurant and didn't practice dentistry...I saw a facebook page of a pharmacist who left and became a financial advisor for an insurance company! Regardless of the field you chose you are not going to be the same person in 10 years. People change and so do their desires, the only thing you can do is go with what you think best fits for your life now!

 

[crazybob]

[/B]

Not true. I am only giving honest advice and have plenty of evidence to back up my claims. I'm trying to get people to actually do something about the major threats facing our profession. But surprise surprise I am a bad guy for getting people to face reality... And no one wants to do anything about it

And how is posting on SDN to pre-pharmacy students going to help? How are these posts and threads started by you going to help our profession?

 

[Somatic]

And how is posting on SDN to pre-pharmacy students going to help? How are these posts and threads started by you going to help our profession?

My hope is that people will FINALLY realize there are too many pharm schools and take action to shut em down before the greedy mo f****** make a fortune and screw the profession over in the process

 

[crazybob]

My hope is that people will FINALLY realize there are too many pharm schools and take action to shut em down before the greedy mo f****** make a fortune and screw the profession over in the process

How can pharmacy students do that?

 

[Somatic]

How can pharmacy students do that?

Start petitions to shut them down, confront the school on their shadiness, convince preceptors to no longer precept for that school, write to your state board of pharmacy, spread the word like I am trying to do, etc, etc

 

[crazybob]

Start petitions to shut them down, confront the school on their shadiness, convince preceptors to no longer precept for that school, write to your state board of pharmacy, spread the word like I am trying to do, etc, etc

Shouldn't you "spread the word" to people you can talk to face to face?

 

[chemguy79]

Start petitions to shut them down, confront the school on their shadiness, convince preceptors to no longer precept for that school, write to your state board of pharmacy, spread the word like I am trying to do, etc, etc

Going to a message board that caters to PRE-PHARMS is not going to accomplish your goal. I'd love to see you conduct yourself in this manner with pharmacists, preceptors and such ... You would be shut down quicker than you can say PHARMACY.

 

[warcax]

My hope is that people will FINALLY realize there are too many pharm schools and take action to shut em down before the greedy mo f****** make a fortune and screw the profession over in the process

I've been quietly observing your posting trends. Seriously if you are so concerned that you won't be making your 120k post graduation why don't you switch to dentistry or medicine. If you aren't competitive enough to switch to those, then just suck it up or... continue this futile trolling.

 

[thecoolpharmboi]

I've been quietly observing your posting trends. Seriously if you are so concerned that you won't be making your 120k post graduation why don't you switch to dentistry or medicine. If you aren't competitive enough to switch to those, then just suck it up or... continue this futile trolling.

Agreed. Somatic, I know you are "trying" to spread your message, but your method is wrong. Please re-evaluate your ways of communicating with people, because I believe that is one of the essentials in being a pharmacist, no?

 

[owlegrad]

Start petitions to shut them down, confront the school on their shadiness, convince preceptors to no longer precept for that school, write to your state board of pharmacy, spread the word like I am trying to do, etc, etc

Who would sign that petition, and who would it go to? What will the state board do exactly? The only thing on your list that makes any sense at all is preceptors boycotting new school students (wouldn't want to be in those student's shoes if you somehow succeeded) and good luck with that. But by all means please keep preaching your message of over-saturation, we all have our own opinions.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Start petitions to shut them down, confront the school on their shadiness, convince preceptors to no longer precept for that school, write to your state board of pharmacy, spread the word like I am trying to do, etc, etc

Yes, let's start petitions to convince these schools, each of which has invested millions of dollars into starting a program, that our profession would be better off if they shut down. I'm sure their students would agree. And, pray tell, which schools would you have shut down?

I seriously doubt there are many preceptors out there stupid enough to buy into your bull****, but by all means, why don't you start calling them personally and explain to them why they shouldn't precept students from schools you don't like.

Write to our state boards and say what, "I don't want to compete for a job, so could you do something to create an artificial shortage so I don't have to?"

Spread the word? Sure thing. I'll keep telling everyone that I enjoy pharmacy, I look forward to being a pharmacist, and for some people it's an excellent career choice. I happen to be one of those people.

You're a *****. If you actually are a pharmacist then you're an embarrassment to pharmacists and future pharmacists everywhere who aren't *****s. But by all means, keep posting here. I get a kick out of reading the stupidity that you keep coming up with and admire your drive to keep "spreading the word" in spite of the fact that you must feel tremendously stupid every time one of your ridiculous claims is debunked.

 

[chemguy79]

Yes, let's start petitions to convince these schools, each of which has invested millions of dollars into starting a program, that our profession would be better off if they shut down. I'm sure their students would agree. And, pray tell, which schools would you have shut down?

I seriously doubt there are many preceptors out there stupid enough to buy into your bull****, but by all means, why don't you start calling them personally and explain to them why they shouldn't precept students from schools you don't like.

Write to our state boards and say what, "I don't want to compete for a job, so could you do something to create an artificial shortage so I don't have to?"

Spread the word? Sure thing. I'll keep telling everyone that I enjoy pharmacy, I look forward to being a pharmacist, and for some people it's an excellent career choice. I happen to be one of those people.

You're a *****. If you actually are a pharmacist then you're an embarrassment to pharmacists and future pharmacists everywhere who aren't *****s. But by all means, keep posting here. I get a kick out of reading the stupidity that you keep coming up with and admire your drive to keep "spreading the word" in spite of the fact that you must feel tremendously stupid every time one of your ridiculous claims is debunked.

Post of the week!

 

[Somatic]

I can't wait till you guys get out. Seeing how far down hill things have gone since I started, I'm sure things will get much worse by the time you guys get out. And you don't think having too many schools is a problem? Wow some people have no common sense! Too many schools is bad for everyone. Especially for the poor students who go to these ridiculous schools and get in so much debt that they will be screwed for life. I can't be the first one you're hearing these things from? If so, go talk to more people in the profession now (who aren't professors) and see what they think of where it's heading...It's not looking good... Pharmacy is A HUGE risk now days! I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

 

[Somatic]

Post of the week!

Hmmm how old are you? Not something I would expect from an ADULT

 

[Somatic]

Yes, let's start petitions to convince these schools, each of which has invested millions of dollars into starting a program, that our profession would be better off if they shut down. I'm sure their students would agree. And, pray tell, which schools would you have shut down?

I seriously doubt there are many preceptors out there stupid enough to buy into your bull****, but by all means, why don't you start calling them personally and explain to them why they shouldn't precept students from schools you don't like.

Write to our state boards and say what, "I don't want to compete for a job, so could you do something to create an artificial shortage so I don't have to?"

Spread the word? Sure thing. I'll keep telling everyone that I enjoy pharmacy, I look forward to being a pharmacist, and for some people it's an excellent career choice. I happen to be one of those people.

You're a *****. If you actually are a pharmacist then you're an embarrassment to pharmacists and future pharmacists everywhere who aren't *****s. But by all means, keep posting here. I get a kick out of reading the stupidity that you keep coming up with and admire your drive to keep "spreading the word" in spite of the fact that you must feel tremendously stupid every time one of your ridiculous claims is debunked.

Excuse me? Why do you think you can call me names? I think that violates terms of use

Jesus where do you guys live that makes you so detached from reality? You guys act like everything is going to be just fine and we should DO NOTHING about the problems that threaten pharmacy. My claims are very valid. I think you guys just hate me and that's the problem.

 

[warcax]

Excuse me? Why do you think you can call me names? I think that violates terms of use

Jesus where do you guys live that makes you so detached from reality? You guys act like everything is going to be just fine and we should DO NOTHING about the problems that threaten pharmacy. My claims are very valid. I think you guys just hate me and that's the problem.

But brah, all those concerns you've brought up are actually faced by all allied health fields except medicine. You've been told over and again that a lot of these economic concerns have been direct ramifications from the global recession(well western recession at least). Also many people have noted that down the line this trend of educational expansion to meet increased demand will even reach supposedly safe professions(that which you are so adamantly advocating) such as medicine. The likelihood and idea of finding a completely secure vocation which will propel you into the higher echelons of society is inconsistent with the current state of the global market and with the very nature and values of this country. If your gripe is that the return on investment is not sufficient enough given the amount of loans taken out, then maybe you should of considered moving to a social democratic system. Also this has been mentioned many times too... a lot of people are choosing pharmacy because they like the profession. You can't seem to compute that fact... not everybody is looking at it purely from a cost benefit analysis perspective. And even if they did, i think your analysis is flawed.

 

[veyep]

Excuse me? Why do you think you can call me names? I think that violates terms of use

Jesus where do you guys live that makes you so detached from reality? You guys act like everything is going to be just fine and we should DO NOTHING about the problems that threaten pharmacy. My claims are very valid. I think you guys just hate me and that's the problem.

I feel you somatic, but i think you should watch this video[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzgzim5m7oU[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Somatic]

But brah, all those concerns you've brought up are actually faced by all allied health fields except medicine. You've been told over and again that a lot of these economic concerns have been direct ramifications from the global recession(well western recession at least). Also many people have noted that down the line this trend of educational expansion to meet increased demand will even reach supposedly safe professions(that which you are so adamantly advocating) such as medicine. The likelihood and idea of finding a completely secure vocation which will propel you into the higher echelons of society is inconsistent with the current state of the global market and with the very nature and values of this country. If your gripe is that the return on investment is not sufficient enough given the amount of loans taken out, then maybe you should of considered moving to a social democratic system. Also this has been mentioned many times too... a lot of people are choosing pharmacy because they like the profession. You can't seem to compute that fact... not everybody is looking at it purely from a cost benefit analysis perspective. And even if they did, i think your analysis is flawed.

And like I said when I started another post, only go into pharmacy if you truly love it and money is not a factor. Don't count on pharmacy paying as much as it is now when you graduate.

 

[thecoolpharmboi]

Hmmm how old are you? Not something I would expect from an ADULT

One should look in the mirror before making accusations about others

 

[cortezUSA]

Hmmm how old are you? Not something I would expect from an ADULT

Yeah, I was thinkin' the same thing. lol

 

[Somatic]

One should look in the mirror before making accusations about others

Huh. No s**t

 

[Somatic]

Yeah, I was thinkin' the same thing. lol

 

[bacillus1]

I kinda want to see what Somatic will accomplish in 5 years or so. At least he's trying to speak up for the profession. Next step for Somatic, something that is more or less possible to accomplish: go to your state pharmacy association, and try to get them to lobby for some legislation that would limit the abuse of chain pharmacists. I've tried this and they don't want to sponsor such legislation unless there are big studies that show that pharmacists are feeling rushed and are making more errors. Go do such a study, and be nice, and maybe you can make pharmacy a better career.

 

[Filler]

I kinda want to see what Somatic will accomplish in 5 years or so. At least he's trying to speak up for the profession.

Sure, it's just too bad that he comes of as pretentious, biased, disingenuous..but hey its for the profession right?

 

[chemguy79]

And like I said when I started another post, only go into pharmacy if you truly love it and money is not a factor. Don't count on pharmacy paying as much as it is now when you graduate.

What you FAIL to understand is that a vast majority of us replying are fully aware of this, therefore, your comments are falling upon deaf ears.

 

[chemguy79]

Hmmm how old are you? Not something I would expect from an ADULT

I have reported this post for a violation of the Terms of Service.

 

[R2pharmD2]

Excuse me? Why do you think you can call me names? I think that violates terms of use

Jesus where do you guys live that makes you so detached from reality? You guys act like everything is going to be just fine and we should DO NOTHING about the problems that threaten pharmacy. My claims are very valid. I think you guys just hate me and that's the problem.

Think of it less as a "name" and more of a "title". You've earned it!

You didn't address any of the questions I raised. Which schools should be shut down? I'd like to see your list. What should be done about the students currently attending these schools? Have you started your campaign with preceptors yet to convince them not to accept students from schools on your list? What ARE you saying to your state board, exactly? Or have you contacted them yet?

I don't think there's a single person here who thinks pharmacy is perfect and the profession doesn't face problems. You'd get a lot further if you suggested more reasonable steps and didn't constantly make exaggerated claims. Personally, I think a moratorium on new pharmacy schools could be a good idea, for example. If you were to make a logical argument that we should take that step rather than "Close half the schools/drop out now/run for the hills/all is lost" you'd have a more receptive audience.

 

[crazybob]

And like I said when I started another post, only go into pharmacy if you truly love it and money is not a factor. Don't count on pharmacy paying as much as it is now when you graduate.

You think pharmacy students are not aware of this?????

Also, are you forgetting about inflation?

 

[Somatic]

Think of it less as a "name" and more of a "title". You've earned it!

You didn't address any of the questions I raised. Which schools should be shut down? I'd like to see your list. What should be done about the students currently attending these schools? Have you started your campaign with preceptors yet to convince them not to accept students from schools on your list? What ARE you saying to your state board, exactly? Or have you contacted them yet?

I don't think there's a single person here who thinks pharmacy is perfect and the profession doesn't face problems. You'd get a lot further if you suggested more reasonable steps and didn't constantly make exaggerated claims. Personally, I think a moratorium on new pharmacy schools could be a good idea, for example. If you were to make a logical argument that we should take that step rather than "Close half the schools/drop out now/run for the hills/all is lost" you'd have a more receptive audience.

I don't have much time since I have to run to work but we should let schools continue with their current classes so we don't screw the students already attending these schools but make it so say their class of 2016 is their LAST CLASS or at the very least we should force them to significantly reduce their class sizes.

It's funny, I met a preceptor for a diploma mill school and his doom and gloom thoughts are way worse than mine. He basically thought one of the kids from the diploma mill school would get his job whether he likes it or not in the near future. Plus he said the profession is ruined due to so many low quality pharmacists being produced. So yeah, stop hating me people. I really want to save the profession and I believe we need to do something to significantly reduce the number of new grads in order to ensure the profession won't be destroyed.

 

[R2pharmD2]

I don't have much time since I have to run to work but we should let schools continue with their current classes so we don't screw the students already attending these schools but make it so say their class of 2016 is their LAST CLASS or at the very least we should force them to significantly reduce their class sizes.

Again, what is your basis for deciding on "these schools"? My "top 5" program has expanded enrollment, so should they be forced to cut back too? Or close down entirely since they're destroying the profession by flooding the market with pharmacists? Are you going to come up with a plan to reimburse all of these schools you're going to shut down for the money they've already invested? If you impose severe artificial limits on class sizes for institutions that were designed to accommodate a certain class size, they may not be able to survive financially. Either way, I'm pretty sure that's not legal (confetti has had some pretty informative posts on the subject).

It's funny, I met a preceptor for a diploma mill school and his doom and gloom thoughts are way worse than mine. He basically thought one of the kids from the diploma mill school would get his job whether he likes it or not in the near future. Plus he said the profession is ruined due to so many low quality pharmacists being produced. So yeah, stop hating me people. I really want to save the profession and I believe we need to do something to significantly reduce the number of new grads in order to ensure the profession won't be destroyed.

Anecdotes aren't terribly persuasive. This particular anecdote doesn't even make sense. Why would this preceptor be so concerned about one of these low quality diploma mill students taking his job? Why the assumption that so many of these pharmacists are "low quality" in the first place?

 

[thecoolpharmboi]

Again, what is your basis for deciding on "these schools"? My "top 5" program has expanded enrollment, so should they be forced to cut back too? Or close down entirely since they're destroying the profession by flooding the market with pharmacists? Are you going to come up with a plan to reimburse all of these schools you're going to shut down for the money they've already invested? If you impose severe artificial limits on class sizes for institutions that were designed to accommodate a certain class size, they may not be able to survive financially. Either way, I'm pretty sure that's not legal (confetti has had some pretty informative posts on the subject).



Anecdotes aren't terribly persuasive. This particular anecdote doesn't even make sense. Why would this preceptor be so concerned about one of these low quality diploma mill students taking his job? Why the assumption that so many of these pharmacists are "low quality" in the first place?

 

[owlegrad]

Anecdotes aren't terribly persuasive. This particular anecdote doesn't even make sense. Why would this preceptor be so concerned about one of these low quality diploma mill students taking his job? Why the assumption that so many of these pharmacists are "low quality" in the first place?

And why is he a preceptor in the first place if that is how he feels about the very students he precepts? Doesn't make sense.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Somatic is full of it, no big surprise there.

 

[delano2000]

What you FAIL to understand is that a vast majority of us replying are fully aware of this, therefore, your comments are falling upon deaf ears.

 

[Citamos]

I have reported this post for a violation of the Terms of Service.

Awwww poor baby! "I'm telling on you!!" Jesus are we in elementary school here?? LOL

 

[Chem2pharm]

And like I said when I started another post, only go into pharmacy if you truly love it and money is not a factor. Don't count on pharmacy paying as much as it is now when you graduate.

I am wondering if anyone happens to know what the change in pay might be in about 5 years or so? Please don't start bashing or questioning my motives for pursuing pharmacy, because its 100% for the love and interest in being a pharmacist

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I am wondering if anyone happens to know what the change in pay might be in about 5 years or so? Please don't start bashing or questioning my motives for pursuing pharmacy, because its 100% for the love and interest in being a pharmacist

No. My crystal ball is broken.

In all seriousness, no one knows the future. All anyone can do it speculate. Anyone who claims that they have "facts" or "inside knowledge" likely does not.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I am wondering if anyone happens to know what the change in pay might be in about 5 years or so? Please don't start bashing or questioning my motives for pursuing pharmacy, because its 100% for the love and interest in being a pharmacist

No one knows, but if you love what you're doing, as long as you can pay your bills, then that's all you need.

 

[crazybob]

I am wondering if anyone happens to know what the change in pay might be in about 5 years or so? Please don't start bashing or questioning my motives for pursuing pharmacy, because its 100% for the love and interest in being a pharmacist

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html

I know it deals with minimum wage, but sometimes you can sort of see what you can expect.

But even with that, who knows how the economy will be in 5 years.

 

[owlegrad]

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html

I know it deals with minimum wage, but sometimes you can sort of see what you can expect.

But even with that, who knows how the economy will be in 5 years.

You are saying we should expect minimum wage?

Darn bob I had no idea you could be so cold.

 

[crazybob]

You are saying we should expect minimum wage?

Darn bob I had no idea you could be so cold.

No, but since we get paid above minimum wage, we can compare the percent above minimum wage we are right now and then figure out what we can expect minimum wage to be and then use the same percentage to figure out how much we can expect to be paid in the near future.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

No, but since we get paid above minimum wage, we can compare the percent above minimum wage we are right now and then figure out what we can expect minimum wage to be and then use the same percentage to figure out how much we can expect to be paid in the near future.

I'm not sure this is true. The minimum wage is legislatively defined. Other wages are not. There's no guarantee that non-minimum-wage salaries will increase (or decrease I guess) at the same rate as the minimum wage.