han14tra

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It's a recommended book for our cardio block as sort of a pre-read.

Some person (that's putting it nice ;)) has had the library's copy since July. Even though the library has called them and asked them to return this way overdue book, they apparently don't understand (although they say they have it and didn't lose it).

Is this a book that I'll read once and never touch again? Or, is it useful 3rd and 4th year? In practice?

It costs about $35 so I don't buy it unless there is the potential for repeat uses.
 

OveractiveBrain

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If you go through that book a dozen times you'll be interpreting EKGs better than most interns can. I'd say its useless in the basic science curriculum (Steps give blatantly obvious bradycardias, Vtachs, and Afibs), but for a life purchase, I'd say its solid.

Nothing can replace practice (and I mean hundreds of EKGs), especially supervised by some one in the know, but Dubin does a phenomenal job of teaching you to interpret EKGs. You will learn NOTHING of (patho)physiology, but man will you nail those minute points of EKGs.

Buy it.
 

DeadCactus

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I looked at both and personally liked "12-Lead Ecg: The Art Of Interpretation" by Garcia better. I liked the style better and felt like it was better designed as a book to go through multiple times as I progressed in my education...
 

jdh71

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in before: cocaine and pedophilia

Now that, that little bit of accounting is done . . . Dubin's book is good as an introduction, the problem is his stuff is all stylized and his tracings don't really look like real EKGs. So, if you buy Dubin's book you'll also need a book with REAL ekgs, and if you're going to have to do that anyway, simply buy the book with the real EKGs.
 

getdown

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I agree with jdh about the pictures being too stylized and idealized. However, for someone who has never looked at an EKG or just starting to learn reading EKGs I found it very helpful. I enjoy the simple language and the way he broke it down of what's the definable characteristics of RBBB, LBBB, the diff heart blocks, etc. I don't know maybe I'm a simple person but it served me well. I know plenty of interns and docs who still look at that book every now and than so I feel it's worth to have. I mean worse comes to worse, call the cardio consult :) but at least you won't look stupid asking what type of arrhythmia the dude has.
 
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han14tra

han14tra

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I looked at both and personally liked "12-Lead Ecg: The Art Of Interpretation" by Garcia better. I liked the style better and felt like it was better designed as a book to go through multiple times as I progressed in my education...
Anyone else use this book? Our library actually has it.
 

MossPoh

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I have dubin's book and Thaler's " The only EKG book you'll ever need" or whatever the hell it is called. While I find the name stupid, I really enjoy Thaler. I found it concise and not overly dumbed down but not so detailed that I felt like an idiot. I also like books that have a few practice questions and provide the tracings online, so you could do your own testing if you wanted.
 

QofQuimica

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I liked the Dubin book too, the only downside being that the author is a convicted pedophile (from FL, no less!). Definitely worth getting a copy; you can buy a used one off Amazon or Ebay.
 
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han14tra

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Thanks everyone for all the GREAT comments.

I went over to the library and checked out the 12 Lead ECG: Art of interpretation book. I got the little intro version though. The other one was 600 pg (which would consume my entire Thanksgiving break). The intro is about a third of the size, which I assume is about equivalent to Dubin since that book is also about 200 pg.

I think I'll pre-read the Intro book, and use the big one throughout the class as a reference.
 

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I have the big book and it's not as long as it looks. It's color coded by Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced. The intermediate material makes up the bulk of the book and will be great for the clinical years. The beginner section is far shorter and is already enough to put you well beyond what most of your classmates will learn...

That's been my experience anyway. It's worth noting that I have found a few things I believe to be errors/typos in the book. The only notable one was in the very beginning where it stated that 12-lead strips are 12 seconds long (it's my understanding that they are all 10 seconds). The other errors were just some mathematical mistakes in answers to the practice questions.
 

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It's a great intro. I believe it also has reference sheets inside that are good for carrying around. But really, once you know the fundamentals of EKGs, the best way to learn them is just to go over tons of them, preferably with someone who knows EKGs really well. At one of the smaller hospitals where I've shadowed, the cardiologist read all the hospital's 12-lead EKGs on computer. They would sit down and interpret like 80 EKGs every day. Going through them together just once will help more than any book possibly can.
 

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There are so many of those books floating around, I'm sure you can get it used. Dubin can be a bit elementary at times, and those fill in the blank sentences are irritating if you are trying to read quickly. If you don't know anything about EKGs, it is a great place to start since he really holds your hand.

As far as an additional resource and self quizzing, check out Wave Maven. There are hundreds of real EKGs with both a quiz mode and a tutor mode. Fantastic once you have already done Dubin.
 

jl lin

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I liked the Dubin book too, the only downside being that the author is a convicted pedophile (from FL, no less!). Definitely worth getting a copy; you can buy a used one off Amazon or Ebay.


OMG. All these years I had Dubin's book, used it for work. . .no one ever told me that.

A pedophile. . .really?


GOOOOOOOOOOD. :barf:
 

jdh71

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OMG. All these years I had Dubin's book, used it for work. . .no one ever told me that.

A pedophile. . .really?


GOOOOOOOOOOD. :barf:
He also liked cocaine

But apparently there are two types of people in this world, those who like cocaine and those who have never tried cocaine. So I don't know if we get to hold that against him.
 

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I don't know if I would consider a man caught in a inebriated threesome with a 20 something and a 16 year old at a nudist camp a pedophile. Degenerate, sure. But the blatant misuse of the word pedophile needs to be cut down to avoid confusing people.
 

QofQuimica

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I don't know if I would consider a man caught in a inebriated threesome with a 20 something and a 16 year old at a nudist camp a pedophile. Degenerate, sure. But the blatant misuse of the word pedophile needs to be cut down to avoid confusing people.
What's to be confused about? Not that drugging up 16-year-olds to seduce them isn't also arguably pedophilia, but the dude was arrested on child pornography charges for possessing explicit videos of preteens. Sounds like a pedophile to me. :shrug:
 

jl lin

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ekg's by dubin is still a great book despite the guy's personal life
Look, I always liked it for basic stuff, but when referring to it in the future I will feel the need to wash my hands after turning each page. And of course before picking it up I will have to premedicate with Dramamine.

It's kind of tough to get past the pedophile thing, since I have zero tolerance for it, and I think our society should get serious about having zero tolerance for it. It doesn't as it is, and I don't see it getting tougher on it--only more dismissive of the "poor" folks that are 'only repeating behavior they had to endure.' Although interestingly enough, not everyone that was abused as a child repeats such sorrowful and really horrific behaviors on other children when they become adults.

I am also sad that a bright medical doctor, influential within the medical world and his own community, practiced such behaviors.


BTW, the issue wasn't/isn't merely a matter of his personal life--as in doing whatever is non-hurtful between two consenting adults. When it became criminal (and anytime a child is involved in any way in such things every caring human being should grieve and, yes, have righteous indignation--some things still require that--i.e., genuine, righteous indignation), that's when it became a non-personal problem--that is, a public problem.
Physicians are respected leaders and protectors within communities of people.

Yea, I can suspend reality and still learn from his book. But now, b/c of his seriously repugnant criminal behaviors, I can exercise my moral GPS such that I can learn/re-learn those things elsewhere. People often choose to boycott for good reasons.
 
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amom

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It's a recommended book for our cardio block as sort of a pre-read.

Some person (that's putting it nice ;)) has had the library's copy since July. Even though the library has called them and asked them to return this way overdue book, they apparently don't understand (although they say they have it and didn't lose it).

Is this a book that I'll read once and never touch again? Or, is it useful 3rd and 4th year? In practice?

It costs about $35 so I don't buy it unless there is the potential for repeat uses.
From having used both the Dubin book and the 12 lead ECG: art of interpretation; I can honestly tell you that Dubin book is not worth the money at all. 12 lead ECG reads well and explains the reasoning and logic behing the ECG and axis and what not in good detail. Dubin book is just random factoids with no real background info on anything. Try to get a hold of both from a library and see which one works for you.
 

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I actually really like 12-Lead EKG Confidence, though I don't know many other people who use it. I think it really depends on how you like to learn and such; if you can get ahold of some of the books to compare them, I think that would be ideal. I don't really like the Dubin book, which most of my friends have.
 

QofQuimica

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jl lin said:
Yea, I can suspend reality and still learn from his book. But now, b/c of his seriously repugnant criminal behaviors, I can exercise my moral GPS such that I can learn/re-learn those things elsewhere. People often choose to boycott for good reasons.
Buy a used copy or check it out of the library, and your moral misgivings are instantly assuaged. ;)

All kidding aside, I don't think anyone here is blase about people sexually abusing children, jl lin. But I look at it that even though the guy's faults are significantly worse than the average person's, it doesn't change the fact that he still wrote a heck of a good EKG book.
 

jl lin

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Buy a used copy or check it out of the library, and your moral misgivings are instantly assuaged. ;)

All kidding aside, I don't think anyone here is blase about people sexually abusing children, jl lin. But I look at it that even though the guy's faults are significantly worse than the average person's, it doesn't change the fact that he still wrote a heck of a good EKG book.

It's a darn shame too. My point as well was that it's not only a shame for society, but it is a shame for him and the medical community.



I still feel our society is not at all tough on child porn or pedophiles. BTW, his evils go well beyond mere 'faults being significantly worse than the average person's.'
See, to me that feels a bit too euphemistic for the heinous reality of pedophilia. Sexual abuse destroys kids on so many levels.


I already had the book from a zillion years ago when I started in CCU and critical care.

I agree with another here in that it is not as in-debth as some others; but many of the folks that are learning from his book aren't aspiring cardiologists, so . . .
 
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getdown

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You can try a free trial at your local library or visit your nearest torrent site to see if it's worth it or keep it and buy drinks instead with the money you save.
 

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I have dubin's book and Thaler's " The only EKG book you'll ever need" or whatever the hell it is called. While I find the name stupid, I really enjoy Thaler. I found it concise and not overly dumbed down but not so detailed that I felt like an idiot. I also like books that have a few practice questions and provide the tracings online, so you could do your own testing if you wanted.
agree, "The only EKG book you'll ever need" is great