Is research necessary to match to a good residency?

[~Soñadora~]

Assuming the goal is to match to a good residency program of a noncompetitive specialty, what are your chances to do so with NO research experience whatsoever? Let's assume decent board scores and grades/class rank, and other good extracurricular activities to make up for the research (example: extensive community service).

If this is possible, what are the chances of matching to a TOP residency program of a noncompetitive specialty without research?

I currently have no research experience except some grunt work in undergrad and I would prefer to spend my time doing activities other than research. I don't plant to enter any competitive specialty, perhaps IM or peds. Maybe EM. Should I suck it up and do research or should I do things I'm truly interested in?

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[doc05]

"community service" isn't that important.

research is, even if it's just a case report, it will help applying to any residency program.

 

[BobbyB]

Assuming the goal is to match to a good residency program of a noncompetitive specialty, what are your chances to do so with NO research experience whatsoever? Let's assume decent board scores and grades/class rank, and other good extracurricular activities to make up for the research (example: extensive community service).

If this is possible, what are the chances of matching to a TOP residency program of a noncompetitive specialty without research?

I currently have no research experience except some grunt work in undergrad and I would prefer to spend my time doing activities other than research. I don't plant to enter any competitive specialty, perhaps IM or peds. Maybe EM. Should I suck it up and do research or should I do things I'm truly interested in?

yes

 

[charmiedermie]

Assuming the goal is to match to a good residency program of a noncompetitive specialty, what are your chances to do so with NO research experience whatsoever? Let's assume decent board scores and grades/class rank, and other good extracurricular activities to make up for the research (example: extensive community service).

If this is possible, what are the chances of matching to a TOP residency program of a noncompetitive specialty without research?

I currently have no research experience except some grunt work in undergrad and I would prefer to spend my time doing activities other than research. I don't plant to enter any competitive specialty, perhaps IM or peds. Maybe EM. Should I suck it up and do research or should I do things I'm truly interested in?

Isn't EM a competitive specialty? It is a part of the E-ROAD after all.

 

[~Soñadora~]

Isn't EM a competitive specialty? It is a part of the E-ROAD after all.

You're right. I am probably more interested in IM though, and EM was just an afterthought. I'm keeping my options open at the moment though.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Isn't EM a competitive specialty? It is a part of the E-ROAD after all.

EM is less competitive than University IM programs.

 

[charmiedermie]

EM is less competitive than University IM programs.

I would think that would depend on the particular University IM program, or are you talking on average?

 

[zero0]

All medical students should just agree to stop doing research. Level the playing field so no one has to waste their time doing something they don't give 2 ****s about anymore. 9 out 10 labs agree that medical students are lethargic, poorly trained space-wasters who are just jumping through hoops anyway.

Sigh, if only... I look forward to rotting away in a poorly lit, unventilated subterranean dungeon with my fellow tryhards in a few years. Can you tell how much I love research? Cuz it's a lot. So many ****s given, let me tell you...

 

[235009]

Isn't EM a competitive specialty? It is a part of the E-ROAD after all.

That awful overused acronym is not for competitive specialties.

All medical students should just agree to stop doing research. Level the playing field so no one has to waste their time doing something they don't give 2 ****s about anymore. 9 out 10 labs agree that medical students are lethargic, poorly trained space-wasters who are just jumping through hoops anyway.

Sigh, if only... I look forward to rotting away in a poorly lit, unventilated subterranean dungeon with my fellow tryhards in a few years. Can you tell how much I love research? Cuz it's a lot. So many ****s given, let me tell you...

At the end of the day it's up to you whether or not to be honest with yourself. If you have no interest in research then don't do it and you'll land in the right residency program for you… one where they are looking to train clinicians and don't care about research.

 

[TBV]

Assuming the goal is to match to a good residency program of a noncompetitive specialty, what are your chances to do so with NO research experience whatsoever? Let's assume decent board scores and grades/class rank, and other good extracurricular activities to make up for the research (example: extensive community service).

If this is possible, what are the chances of matching to a TOP residency program of a noncompetitive specialty without research?

I currently have no research experience except some grunt work in undergrad and I would prefer to spend my time doing activities other than research. I don't plant to enter any competitive specialty, perhaps IM or peds. Maybe EM. Should I suck it up and do research or should I do things I'm truly interested in?

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

If you check out page 6 of this report you'll find the the average person who matched (In all residencies combined) has had 2.7 research experiences and has 4.2 abstracts/presentations/publications. You will be doing yourself a great disservice if you decide to skip research.

 

[Slack3r]

All medical students should just agree to stop doing research. Level the playing field so no one has to waste their time doing something they don't give 2 ****s about anymore. 9 out 10 labs agree that medical students are lethargic, poorly trained space-wasters who are just jumping through hoops anyway.

Sigh, if only... I look forward to rotting away in a poorly lit, unventilated subterranean dungeon with my fellow tryhards in a few years. Can you tell how much I love research? Cuz it's a lot. So many ****s given, let me tell you...

There's also clinical research, which is more common for med students to get involved in and doesn't involve a dungeon (usually).

 

[Anicetus]

Assuming the goal is to match to a good residency program of a noncompetitive specialty, what are your chances to do so with NO research experience whatsoever? Let's assume decent board scores and grades/class rank, and other good extracurricular activities to make up for the research (example: extensive community service).

If this is possible, what are the chances of matching to a TOP residency program of a noncompetitive specialty without research?

I currently have no research experience except some grunt work in undergrad and I would prefer to spend my time doing activities other than research. I don't plant to enter any competitive specialty, perhaps IM or peds. Maybe EM. Should I suck it up and do research or should I do things I'm truly interested in?

Don't you know that # of publications in research is highly associated with success in residency? That's why if you have no research you may as well not be a doctor. Some people on here even put it as more important than your grades and scores IN medical school.

 

[~Soñadora~]

Thanks guys! I suspected as much but I wanted to be sure. I'm sure I can find some research that I'm interested in, I just would've preferred to spend my time in another way.

 

[mcloaf]

All medical students should just agree to stop doing research. Level the playing field so no one has to waste their time doing something they don't give 2 ****s about anymore. 9 out 10 labs agree that medical students are lethargic, poorly trained space-wasters who are just jumping through hoops anyway.

Sigh, if only... I look forward to rotting away in a poorly lit, unventilated subterranean dungeon with my fellow tryhards in a few years. Can you tell how much I love research? Cuz it's a lot. So many ****s given, let me tell you...

 

[235009]

Do you get to count undergrad pubs? I had a few from undergrad, one from a gap year, and one coming from old gap year data.

I really dont like research anymore. I did basic science research (like wet lab chemistry stuff) and I liked it well enough, but its too time consuming to do in medical school. Im not a huge fan of clinical research and animal research, so it'd be nice if I could just put those old pubs on my application and be done with research from here on out. Will they even care about these types of publications, though? I feel like my gap year first author is significant, but that is about all.

It's important to show a continued interest in research through med school to get the full benefit

 

[Psai]

All medical students should just agree to stop doing research. Level the playing field so no one has to waste their time doing something they don't give 2 ****s about anymore. 9 out 10 labs agree that medical students are lethargic, poorly trained space-wasters who are just jumping through hoops anyway.

Sigh, if only... I look forward to rotting away in a poorly lit, unventilated subterranean dungeon with my fellow tryhards in a few years. Can you tell how much I love research? Cuz it's a lot. So many ****s given, let me tell you...

Ain't no one forcing you

 

[MedWonk]

Assuming the goal is to match to a good residency program of a noncompetitive specialty, what are your chances to do so with NO research experience whatsoever? Let's assume decent board scores and grades/class rank, and other good extracurricular activities to make up for the research (example: extensive community service).

If this is possible, what are the chances of matching to a TOP residency program of a noncompetitive specialty without research?

I currently have no research experience except some grunt work in undergrad and I would prefer to spend my time doing activities other than research. I don't plant to enter any competitive specialty, perhaps IM or peds. Maybe EM. Should I suck it up and do research or should I do things I'm truly interested in?

It's probably highly variable. I imagine if a program wants to pump out academic physicians and subspecialists, then they probably want to a see a consistent track record of research. Peds, EM and IM also vary a little bit in what makes you competitive. IIRC, away rotations are a big deal in EM, but not so much in peds or IM. Lack of research doesn't seem to be as big of deal breaker in "top" peds programs vs IM. You could just ask the PD of your school for advice. That's what I did, anyway. They'll have up-to-date knowledge of the types of applicants applying to whatever specialty you're interested in.

Edit: Also forgot to mention checking the NRMP PD Survey and Charting the Outcomes. Might give you a clue as to how important research is for each specialty.

 

[Donald Juan]

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf

If you check out page 6 of this report you'll find the the average person who matched (In all residencies combined) has had 2.7 research experiences and has 4.2 abstracts/presentations/publications. You will be doing yourself a great disservice if you decide to skip research.

Yeah, but that is one part of the whole picture, which paints things misleadingly.

If you look at page 122, the number of research projects for IM applicants charted by matched/not matched, you will see that 272/282 US students matched with 0 research experiences, which is 96.5%. Considering this number is similar to the students with more research, it's safe to say that the 10 people with no research likely didn't match because they lacked research.

I'm not saying that research isn't important. And certainly, depending on the specialty or the program it could be a very important factor. But to throw out a single 2.7 average across the board and imply research will substantially affect whether or not the OP will match is misleading. I think a lot of the programs that might want heavy research backgrounds wouldn't be good fits for the OP considering his hate for it (because they probably will expect continued research), and unless he wants to do academic medicine, getting a top university spot is not necessary.

 

[Anicetus]

Yeah, but that is one part of the whole picture, which paints things misleadingly.

If you look at page 122, the number of research projects for IM applicants charted by matched/not matched, you will see that 272/282 US students matched with 0 research experiences, which is 96.5%. Considering this number is similar to the students with more research, it's safe to say that the 10 people with no research likely didn't match because they lacked research.

I'm not saying that research isn't important. And certainly, depending on the specialty or the program it could be a very important factor. But to throw out a single 2.7 average across the board and imply research will substantially affect whether or not the OP will match is misleading. I think a lot of the programs that might want heavy research backgrounds wouldn't be good fits for the OP considering his hate for it (because they probably will expect continued research), and unless he wants to do academic medicine, getting a top university spot is not necessary.

Is it looked down upon to not have any publications for non-academic residencies? I'm currently involved in research this summer, however I'm pretty sure I won't get published. I may start ruling out academic residencies just because of my lack of publications, unless I get a magical case report publication in my third year. Saving second year solely for the Step 1.

 

[repititionition]

Yeah, but that is one part of the whole picture, which paints things misleadingly.

If you look at page 122, the number of research projects for IM applicants charted by matched/not matched, you will see that 272/282 US students matched with 0 research experiences, which is 96.5%. Considering this number is similar to the students with more research, it's safe to say that the 10 people with no research likely didn't match because they lacked research.

You're looking at the wrong chart, though the result is just about the same.

In ERAS, # research projects != # Abstracts, Presentations, and Publications (which is on the next page).

To save anyone looking the matched/not matched numbers for those with 0 Abstracts, Presentations, and Publications, is 667/30, or a 4.3% not-matched rate, which is about double the non-matched rate for those with 5 Abstracts, Presentations, and Publications (2.4%).

Bottom line: none of this matters. IM has the broadest spectrum of competitiveness of any specialty, from programs that will take "has a pulse, passed Step 1&2" to those that only take applicants who "have video proof of ability to walk on water".

You can match a solid mid-tier University IM residency with a well below-average Step 1 and no research.

On the other hand, you are not going to be one of the incoming class at a top (X... you choose) IM program without insane stats and proof of productive longitudinal involvement in SOMETHING. That may be research, or something else, but for most... it's research.

 

[Medicine94122]

Is it looked down upon to not have any publications for non-academic residencies? I'm currently involved in research this summer, however I'm pretty sure I won't get published. I may start ruling out academic residencies just because of my lack of publications, unless I get a magical case report publication in my third year. Saving second year solely for the Step 1.

Yes. Don't you know that # of publications in research is highly associated with success in residency? That's why if you have no research you may as well not be a doctor. Some people on here even put it as more important than your grades and scores IN medical school.

 

[zero0]

There's also clinical research, which is more common for med students to get involved in and doesn't involve a dungeon (usually).

Yeah, I'm hoping that'll be more bearable.

 

[charmiedermie]

All medical students should just agree to stop doing research. Level the playing field so no one has to waste their time doing something they don't give 2 ****s about anymore. 9 out 10 labs agree that medical students are lethargic, poorly trained space-wasters who are just jumping through hoops anyway.

Sigh, if only... I look forward to rotting away in a poorly lit, unventilated subterranean dungeon with my fellow tryhards in a few years. Can you tell how much I love research? Cuz it's a lot. So many ****s given, let me tell you...

Most med students don't do lab research at all. They do clinical research.

That awful overused acronym is not for competitive specialties. At the end of the day it's up to you whether or not to be honest with yourself. If you have no interest in research then don't do it and you'll land in the right residency program for you… one where they are looking to train clinicians and don't care about research.

I know the acronym isn't for competitive specialties, but those fields have a common thread that makes them competitive, or at least until very recently, used to be competitive. I think the OP just wants a really really good IM program, without doing research. So just good grades and board scores, I guess.

 

[KnuxNole]

That awful overused acronym is not for competitive specialties.



At the end of the day it's up to you whether or not to be honest with yourself. If you have no interest in research then don't do it and you'll land in the right residency program for you… one where they are looking to train clinicians and don't care about research.

This. I hate research(scientific and clinical) with a burning passion. Did not touch it whatsoever, partaked in ZERO research activities throughout medical school, and don't plan on for the rest of my life.

 

[seminoma]

Assuming the goal is to match to a good residency program of a noncompetitive specialty, what are your chances to do so with NO research experience whatsoever? Let's assume decent board scores and grades/class rank, and other good extracurricular activities to make up for the research (example: extensive community service).

If this is possible, what are the chances of matching to a TOP residency program of a noncompetitive specialty without research?

I currently have no research experience except some grunt work in undergrad and I would prefer to spend my time doing activities other than research. I don't plant to enter any competitive specialty, perhaps IM or peds. Maybe EM. Should I suck it up and do research or should I do things I'm truly interested in?

Medicine is competitive at good/top programs. Will likely need research of some kind.

 

[abolt18]

Any recommendations on how to get involved in clinical research? I've reached out to my school to no avail and I've got zero experience with research. I feel like a total noob considering I'm going into my 3rd year of med school and I've never done any research and know nothing about it. I have 2 other medical schools very close to me that I could potentially reach out to but again, I wouldn't know where to start or who to talk to. I also worry that because I have no idea what I'm doing, I'd be more of a hindrance than help. Any thoughts?

 

[dxcrunner]

Any recommendations on how to get involved in clinical research? I've reached out to my school to no avail and I've got zero experience with research. I feel like a total noob considering I'm going into my 3rd year of med school and I've never done any research and know nothing about it. I have 2 other medical schools very close to me that I could potentially reach out to but again, I wouldn't know where to start or who to talk to. I also worry that because I have no idea what I'm doing, I'd be more of a hindrance than help. Any thoughts?

Most medical schools have websites links containing a brief snapshot of the research each faculty does. Read those and flip through some papers to see what interests you. Once you have found a few labs, send them each an email separately and include a few important details:
1) Introduce yourself. Who are you? Tell them you are a medical student, honors or recognitions you have received, research experience if applicable
2) Why are you interested in their research (make this unique to their lab, don't copy and paste from one email to the next)
3) Conclude with telling them how you would love to discuss research opportunities and suggest a time to meet
4) Add something like "Please see my attached CV" and of course remember to attach it

There are also a lot of different types of research. If you are unsure about the different types, ask a professor at your school, as other students, or send me a message. I'd be happy to help.

 

[gobigorgohome22]

Any recommendations on how to get involved in clinical research? I've reached out to my school to no avail and I've got zero experience with research. I feel like a total noob considering I'm going into my 3rd year of med school and I've never done any research and know nothing about it. I have 2 other medical schools very close to me that I could potentially reach out to but again, I wouldn't know where to start or who to talk to. I also worry that because I have no idea what I'm doing, I'd be more of a hindrance than help. Any thoughts?

If you're going into 3rd year, you most likely wont have time to dedicate to clinical/bench work. You're best bet is getting a case study done while rotating. Reach out to the residents that you rotate with. Lot of times, they have case studies that they could write up but dont have the time to do so. Ask them if you can help. This can also be done with attendings that you get to know. The bonus with attendings is that if you do a good job, you may end up with a GREAT letter that talks about your clinical AND your research/analytical skills!

Also, case reports tend to be more interesting compared to your other types of research and take almost no time at all. Can easily pump one out in a week.

 

[Wordead]

Case reports are better than nothing, but only barely. Theyre also pretty damn hard to publish in anything outside a throwaway journal.

 

[TBV]

Case reports are better than nothing, but only barely. Theyre also pretty damn hard to publish in anything outside a throwaway journal.

Yeah but something to talk about in an interview is much better than nothing. A blank cv is embarrassing

 

[olivarynucleus]

Yeah, but that is one part of the whole picture, which paints things misleadingly.

If you look at page 122, the number of research projects for IM applicants charted by matched/not matched, you will see that 272/282 US students matched with 0 research experiences, which is 96.5%. Considering this number is similar to the students with more research, it's safe to say that the 10 people with no research likely didn't match because they lacked research.

I'm not saying that research isn't important. And certainly, depending on the specialty or the program it could be a very important factor. But to throw out a single 2.7 average across the board and imply research will substantially affect whether or not the OP will match is misleading. I think a lot of the programs that might want heavy research backgrounds wouldn't be good fits for the OP considering his hate for it (because they probably will expect continued research), and unless he wants to do academic medicine, getting a top university spot is not necessary.

might want to get into a residency where he can get a fellowship though.

 

[olivarynucleus]

Don't you know that # of publications in research is highly associated with success in residency? That's why if you have no research you may as well not be a doctor. Some people on here even put it as more important than your grades and scores IN medical school.

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. The other problem is besides the summer between m1 and m2, the only other time you have time to do research is M4! And by then its too late. You can only squeeze so much crap into the 3 years that matter for residency applications. But somehow, professors and PDs still expect you to do it all. There are some people who work like mad and find time to do research and publish in med school, but those aren't regular people, and they wont be abundant in the match.

 

[gobigorgohome22]

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. The other problem is besides the summer between m1 and m2, the only other time you have time to do research is M4! And by then its too late. You can only squeeze so much crap into the 3 years that matter for residency applications. But somehow, professors and PDs still expect you to do it all. There are some people who work like mad and find time to do research and publish in med school, but those aren't regular people, and they wont be abundant in the match.

People applying for residencies with publications is extremely common.

 

[Wordead]

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. The other problem is besides the summer between m1 and m2, the only other time you have time to do research is M4! And by then its too late. You can only squeeze so much crap into the 3 years that matter for residency applications. But somehow, professors and PDs still expect you to do it all. There are some people who work like mad and find time to do research and publish in med school, but those aren't regular people, and they wont be abundant in the match.

You can do research all 4 years if need be. You dont need to be working 40 hrs/week to get papers published, unless it's basic science. And yeah it's not that uncommon to have pubs. Several of the peds/FM kids at my school had pubs. Pretty much everyone that went to a top IM program did too.

 

[MedWonk]

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. The other problem is besides the summer between m1 and m2, the only other time you have time to do research is M4! And by then its too late. You can only squeeze so much crap into the 3 years that matter for residency applications. But somehow, professors and PDs still expect you to do it all. There are some people who work like mad and find time to do research and publish in med school, but those aren't regular people, and they wont be abundant in the match.

Case reports/chart reviews are your friend.

 

[olivarynucleus]

Case reports/chart reviews are your friend.

Do you do them mostly 3rd year? Could a first or second year do them, and how do you find these opportunities?

 

[notbobtrustme]

People applying for residencies with publications is extremely common.

perhaps, but those pubs can range from garbage posters that like 3 people looked at to first author in JAMA. the breadth is enormous.

 

[MedWonk]

Do you do them mostly 3rd year? Could a first or second year do them, and how do you find these opportunities?

I did a couple this summer (between M1 and M2). They weren't super taxing, and I could see myself doing the occasional case report throughout med school. I just asked around and faculty seemed more than happy to point me in the right direction until I found a good opportunity.