Is Social Work becoming more conservative?

[BlackSkirtTetra]

Today in a social policy class, when discussing The New Deal, one of my classmates volunteered that he is a Tea Partier and supports one of the Tea Party candidates who is running for President.

A couple of us were shocked (including me). My professor said something very interesting. I have to preface this first, though: she is very experienced and has been teaching since the 1970s. She said that in the 1960s when she went to school, that social work was largely a "radical," "leftist," and" democratic socialist" (her words, not mine) field, and that there weren't many people who would describe themselves as conservative or Republican who were interested in social work.

Now, she says, the percent of students who openly identify as conservative or Republican is higher, and she said that's been a big surprise to her over the decades. She mentioned the Reagan Administration, and how she started getting more Republican students during those years. She stressed that Republicans are social workers too and deserve respect, and I thought it was telling bit a little funny that she sensed the need to stress this to a class full of MSW students. I would hope that we already knew that!

For those who have been in the field a couple decades or longer, in particular, I wonder--what are your thoughts? Do you see social work becoming a more conservative field?

This type of thing fascinates me. I've only been involved for a few years, so I'm afraid I don't have any long-term perspective of my own.

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[IHrtHealthPsych]

Interesting. I don't have years in the field to contribute, but it makes me think that it's a consequence of how politics have changed our society over the years. We are much more conservative now, even if only in an economic sense, and social welfare has been framed as nearly evil in many media outlets. Since social work came out of that movement that is fading away, and since social work has become much more widely clinical due to the changes in practice standards, it makes sense that the field is now attracting more conservative people.

One of the things that struck me most when I took a social work policy class (I was in a program for one semester) was the idea that tax entitlements are equally doled out to both the rich and the poor--although some would say that it's much more to the rich in the form of tax breaks. I really didn't think of it that way before. I wonder what a 'tea party' conservative would think when hearing that taught in a classroom? It's strange that s/he is even there, because the 'tea party' strikes me as as very anti-social justice from an economic standpoint, unless social work is becoming much more privatized (which it is, I guess).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It may be a higher % than during the 1960s or so....but I'd guess that it went from 0% to like 3%. I really appreciate the perspective of my SW colleagues, though I have yet to meet one that didn't lean far to the left. Given the work, it'd be hard to work in the field and support most conservative platforms.

 

[Neuropsych2be]

Today in a social policy class, when discussing The New Deal, one of my classmates volunteered that he is a Tea Partier and supports one of the Tea Party candidates who is running for President.

A couple of us were shocked (including me). My professor said something very interesting. I have to preface this first, though: she is very experienced and has been teaching since the 1970s. She said that in the 1960s when she went to school, that social work was largely a "radical," "leftist," and" democratic socialist" (her words, not mine) field, and that there weren't many people who would describe themselves as conservative or Republican who were interested in social work.

Now, she says, the percent of students who openly identify as conservative or Republican is higher, and she said that's been a big surprise to her over the decades. She mentioned the Reagan Administration, and how she started getting more Republican students during those years. She stressed that Republicans are social workers too and deserve respect, and I thought it was telling bit a little funny that she sensed the need to stress this to a class full of MSW students. I would hope that we already knew that!

For those who have been in the field a couple decades or longer, in particular, I wonder--what are your thoughts? Do you see social work becoming a more conservative field?

This type of thing fascinates me. I've only been involved for a few years, so I'm afraid I don't have any long-term perspective of my own.

I have also noticed that social workers can become more conservative as they age and get more experience with clients who use and abuse the very social welfare systems we have created to help people. Many social workers who work in community mental health with me get that way. Many older social workers will comment that "the client who can get to the liquor store the next county over on a regular basis can also get to their outpatient medication management appointments every three months. Its all a matter of interest and commitment." One of the paradoxes of social service agencies is that they can behaviorally reinforce pathological behaviors and create dependency on the system. This perpetuates pathological behavior. Eventually many people become more conservative the more they work in the field. I am not a social worker but I understand how such a process can occur. When my plans for world domination come to fruition, I will insist that all community mental health clients on medicaid who receive anxioltyic medications must get individual therapy if they wish to continue getting their benzodiazapines. And all will be on a benzodiazapine taper. Of course, one of my first decrees when I achieve planetary dominion is to have narcan placed in the water supply!

 

[slinger]

+10.

This is the natural progression of a social welfare system that we have created over the years. Social Workers, in the end, are there to empower people to make intrinsic/social change. Whether it is through individual/group/family/marital psychotherapy, community outreach, or case management. When people are on a perpetual status of public assistance with no desire to strive for independence, it is sort of like the client who walks in the door and YOU make all the phone calls for them. I am a VERY conservative social worker. To be honest, some clients develop a hate relationship for me and terminate immediately. If all I did during 30 minutes of them figuring out that I was not going to do everything for them was to plant a seed for 10 years down the road, I figure I have done my job. 30 years ago, a social worker like me probably couldn't cut it in any agency. So I echo Neuropsych2be's opinion. Titrate and benzo's are 2 words in one sentence that unfortunately do not go well in a community mental health center, lol. There will be a riot.

I have also noticed that social workers can become more conservative as they age and get more experience with clients who use and abuse the very social welfare systems we have created to help people. Many social workers who work in community mental health with me get that way. Many older social workers will comment that "the client who can get to the liquor store the next county over on a regular basis can also get to their outpatient medication management appointments every three months. Its all a matter of interest and commitment." One of the paradoxes of social service agencies is that they can behaviorally reinforce pathological behaviors and create dependency on the system. This perpetuates pathological behavior. Eventually many people become more conservative the more they work in the field. I am not a social worker but I understand how such a process can occur. When my plans for world domination come to fruition, I will insist that all community mental health clients on medicaid who receive anxioltyic medications must get individual therapy if they wish to continue getting their benzodiazapines. And all will be on a benzodiazapine taper. Of course, one of my first decrees when I achieve planetary dominion is to have narcan placed in the water supply!

 

[roubs]

When people are on a perpetual status of public assistance with no desire to strive for independence, it is sort of like the client who walks in the door and YOU make all the phone calls for them. I am a VERY conservative social worker. To be honest, some clients develop a hate relationship for me and terminate immediately.

If someone develops a hate relationship for you and terminates immediately it suggests you are apparently unable or unwilling to develop rapport with those clients. A client's lack of desire or motivation isn't an immutable personality characteristic. I've noticed a side effect of several years working in community mental health is a strong tendency to label clients as resistant and wash hands of the situation.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If someone develops a hate relationship for you and terminates immediately it suggests you are apparently unable or unwilling to develop rapport with those clients. A client's lack of desire or motivation isn't an immutable personality characteristic. I've noticed a side effect of several years working in community mental health is a strong tendency to label clients as resistant and wash hands of the situation.

It definitely cuts both ways. The above is one reason why I tend to avoid CMHCs and similar places where I'd be much more likely to run into this scenario. I am thankful that the vast majority of my patients are motivated, as I know that can be hard to find these days. I formerly worked with almost exclusively severe mental illness, and it wears on a person. My hat is off to social workers who can stay committed to help people who often do not help themselves.

 

[roubs]

It definitely cuts both ways. The above is one reason why I tend to avoid CMHCs and similar places where I'd be much more likely to run into this scenario. I am thankful that the vast majority of my patients are motivated, as I know that can be hard to find these days. I formerly worked with almost exclusively severe mental illness, and it wears on a person. My hat is off to social workers who can stay committed to help people who often do not help themselves.

What I'm saying is it's way easier for a clinician to create 2 piles of clients 1)The motivated ones 2) The Lazy ones than it is to ask and answer:

Why is this client unmotivated?
What would motivate this client?
How can increased motivation be accomplished?

It's not like the literature is silent on this problem and we should all throw up our hands and accept burnout from working with this population.

 

[Neuropsych2be]

What I'm saying is it's way easier for a clinician to create 2 piles of clients 1)The motivated ones 2) The Lazy ones than it is to ask and answer:

Why is this client unmotivated?
What would motivate this client?
How can increased motivation be accomplished?

It's not like the literature is silent on this problem and we should all throw up our hands and accept burnout from working with this population.

Well one thing we can do is help manage the environmental contingencies. Clients should not be given X unless they engage in behavior Y. You don't get access to housing funds unless you go to day treatment for example. Make the rewards and support available contingent upon participating in treatment. I think the value of a more "conservative" political approach is the remind us that social service systems frequently reward dysfunctional behavior.

Beyond a behavioral approach, we have a plethora of data from social psychology about motivation. The self-determination theory literature is full of ways we can enhance intrinsic motivation. Also, frankly anxiety can be an excellent motivator. From an evolutionary perspective anxiety serves as a motivator and driver of behavior in the service of survival. Unfortunately, benzodiazapines are often too effective. My own observation is that as most people remain on anxiolytics for months and years they slowly spiral downward as the need to develop health coping skills declines. In my CMHC its amazing how many clients call the crisis hotline at exactly 5:05 on a Friday afternoon as the CMHC has just closed stating that they have run out of Xanax and its a medical emergency!

 

[roubs]

Well one thing we can do is help manage the environmental contingencies. Clients should not be given X unless they engage in behavior Y. You don't get access to housing funds unless you go to day treatment for example. Make the rewards and support available contingent upon participating in treatment. I think the value of a more "conservative" political approach is the remind us that social service systems frequently reward dysfunctional behavior.

Beyond a behavioral approach, we have a plethora of data from social psychology about motivation. The self-determination theory literature is full of ways we can enhance intrinsic motivation. Also, frankly anxiety can be an excellent motivator. From an evolutionary perspective anxiety serves as a motivator and driver of behavior in the service of survival. Unfortunately, benzodiazapines are often too effective. My own observation is that as most people remain on anxiolytics for months and years they slowly spiral downward as the need to develop health coping skills declines. In my CMHC its amazing how many clients call the crisis hotline at exactly 5:05 on a Friday afternoon as the CMHC has just closed stating that they have run out of Xanax and its a medical emergency!

Agree that long-term xanax use usually only replaces one problem with another. Most clinicians don't have the power to manage environmental contingencies strictly. Where I work we do this to some extent by requiring clients who are getting their medication through us to also participate in psychosocial interventions but I don't see a situation in which we can control the flow of benefits.

I still think we need to be more introspective than we typically are. Any system has to balance the need to get services to people who are legitimately deserving with the need to prevent abuse. People who work in community mental health frequently focus intently on examples of abuse.

The desire to see fair play is partially culturally taught but also partially selected for over evolutionary time. All of us have a tendency to focus on unfair play we are able to witness and ignore unfairness that occurs out of our sight or that is institutional. This can color both our interaction with current clients and also the natural expectations we have when meeting a new client aka "Here comes another bloodsucker.."

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Make the rewards and support available contingent upon participating in treatment. I think the value of a more "conservative" political approach is the remind us that social service systems frequently reward dysfunctional behavior.

Yes!

Good luck getting anyone to actually implement such a system. Our society actively supports a welfare state, and anyone who questions this approach is branded a black-hearted heathen. If I had my druthers, we'd have mandatory work programs, random drug testing, and required education + parenting programs for anyone on any gov't assistance. The culture being pushed by our social programs is one of dependance, which is not good for people or society as a whole.

So as to not derail this thread further, i started a thread in the political forum about Florida's push for mandatory drug testing for people seeking welfare services: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11585276

 

[roubs]

Yes!

Good luck getting anyone to actually implement such a system. Our society actively supports a welfare state, and anyone who questions this approach is branded a black-hearted heathen. If I had my druthers, we'd have mandatory work programs, random drug testing, and required education + parenting programs for anyone on any gov't assistance. The culture being pushed by our social programs is one of dependance, which is not good for people or society as a whole.

So as to not derail this thread further, i started a thread in the political forum about Florida's push for mandatory drug testing for people seeking welfare services: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11585276

I think most people would love a mandatory work program. Unfortunately this whole 'system' your want falls apart when you have 2 applicants for every 1 job.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I think most people would love a mandatory work program. Unfortunately this whole 'system' your want falls apart when you have 2 applicants for every 1 job.

We can cross that road if/when we get there, but why shoot the horse before you even try to pull the cart?

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

Given the work, it'd be hard to work in the field and support most conservative platforms.

Do you work in a clinical or administrative/policy position? Is it private or public?

I'd imagine that it would be very easy to support conservative social platforms and work in a conservative private clinic.

 

[roubs]

We can cross that road if/when we get there, but why shoot the horse before you even try to pull the cart?

The cart, horse, dog & pony show...are all at the bridge of 2 applicants 1 job. I do believe a better system should be designed that emphasizes independence and weaning them off support, but I don't trust it to be designed by people who view welfare recipients as leeches on society. They are likely to design a system that doesn't take into account people's self-respect & dignity. They are likely to incorporate elements that reflect a lack of care for people in the system. Example: In the FL drug testing law specifies anyone who does use drugs needs to get treatment to re-apply 6 months later. What are the chances that someone applying for assistance can afford a drug treatment program? Most states are gutting mental health budgets as they implement requirements like this.

 

[PsyDLICSW]

Today in a social policy class, when discussing The New Deal, one of my classmates volunteered that he is a Tea Partier and supports one of the Tea Party candidates who is running for President.

A couple of us were shocked (including me). My professor said something very interesting. I have to preface this first, though: she is very experienced and has been teaching since the 1970s. She said that in the 1960s when she went to school, that social work was largely a "radical," "leftist," and" democratic socialist" (her words, not mine) field, and that there weren't many people who would describe themselves as conservative or Republican who were interested in social work.

Now, she says, the percent of students who openly identify as conservative or Republican is higher, and she said that's been a big surprise to her over the decades. She mentioned the Reagan Administration, and how she started getting more Republican students during those years. She stressed that Republicans are social workers too and deserve respect, and I thought it was telling bit a little funny that she sensed the need to stress this to a class full of MSW students. I would hope that we already knew that!

For those who have been in the field a couple decades or longer, in particular, I wonder--what are your thoughts? Do you see social work becoming a more conservative field?

This type of thing fascinates me. I've only been involved for a few years, so I'm afraid I don't have any long-term perspective of my own.

I have an MSW and have worked in the field before. I have always been conservative (fiscally speaking and more socially moderate) and have always been a registered Republican. I went into social work because I wanted to be a therapist. Social workers are masters level therapists in most states and I think that the therapist status may be why more social work students are Republicans. Therapists, psychologists, counselors, etc can be either conservative/Republican or liberal/Democratic and this may explain the shift.

Speaking to becoming more conservative over the years due to seeing the abuse of the system, this has happened to me. I became even more conservative as I saw people learn to depend on the government to pay for their problems. Some people expect the government to pay for their problems because that is all they learned coming from generations of not working and abusing the system. I work hard and I refuse to pay for someone else's laziness and lack of initiative. Perhaps another reason Republicans are going into social work is that they want to help find ways to encourage the oppressed to help themselves and not to depend on the government to help them.

I really appreciate what your professor said and calling for respect of all politics in the classroom. In my social work program I never had the courage to speak up about my beliefs because the atmosphere was so anti-Republican. I remember that they made us watch Sicko by Michael Moore and everyone believed everything he said. I question everything Michael Moore says because poisons the minds of Americans and the media. No one raised any questions about Moore's biases and lack of clarification on some information he presented in Sicko. Anyway, I like that your teacher created a respectful atmosphere. My program discouraged Republican thinking.

 

[slinger]

If someone develops a hate relationship for you and terminates immediately it suggests you are apparently unable or unwilling to develop rapport with those clients. A client's lack of desire or motivation isn't an immutable personality characteristic. I've noticed a side effect of several years working in community mental health is a strong tendency to label clients as resistant and wash hands of the situation.

Your statement is so untrue. I think you just responded emotionally to my post without thinking much. I'll just chalk it up to inexperience, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. As posters above described, clients who must go to day treatment programs to obtain some monetary assistance (housing, food programs, etc). There are ALOT of clients (especially in the substance abuse world), when they are presented with this, you can't even finish an intake with them. When I am describing a client knowing me for 30 minutes and developing a hate relationship based on 30 minutes of discussion and him/her finding out they are not getting what they want and how they want it, and are not flexible...well....... What do you expect? lol There is a myriad of techniques that I am well aware of to employ in these situations, rolling with the resistance if you will.

At the end of the day, people are going to do what they want, and there are A LOT of people who abuse our welfare system. It doesn't make me a clinician incapable of having ability to develop rapport because I am unwilling to manipulate my clients into believing they need different types of help so that they can get other needs met.

 

[wigflip]

Now, she says, the percent of students who openly identify as conservative or Republican is higher, and she said that's been a big surprise to her over the decades. She mentioned the Reagan Administration, and how she started getting more Republican students during those years.

Years ago, when I left my MSW program, I had that same chat with my clinical adviser or whatever they called (her/him). S/he said that social work's reputation for radicalism/progressive politics had overshadowed the conservative reality for a long time. And today I don't know any hard left activists or academics who would regard social work as a genuinely progressive field at this point in time.

She stressed that Republicans are social workers too and deserve respect, and I thought it was telling bit a little funny that she sensed the need to stress this to a class full of MSW students. I would hope that we already knew that!

This was probably about managing classroom climate and/or prepping for student evals. Even full professors can continue to advance up the pay scale/status ladder, and accumulating favorable student evals is (regrettably) a part of that process. Telling the Repubs that they have a place at the table forecloses some part of the inevitable eval complaints later on.

Incidentally, I write letters of rec for undergrads all the time, and find it interesting that the prospective social workers are always the dullards (note: I am NOT saying that all social workers are dumb or anything of that kind--just talking about my particular range of personal experience). To a person they are mediocre, conventional thinkers--I've never had a bright, creative student ask for an MSW LOR before. And I write the letters, remembering that that was what my fellow social work students were like--eager to enforce rules, sidle up to any existing bureaucracy. My preceptor wasn't even familiar with the term "social control" for christ's sake!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Do you work in a clinical or administrative/policy position? Is it private or public?

I'd imagine that it would be very easy to support conservative social platforms and work in a conservative private clinic.

I work as a clinician in an academic medical center, though my views rarely come into play in day to day practice. I agree that it'd be easier to express personal views in a private practice, though I'm not sure that it'd make that big of a difference.

The cart, horse, dog & pony show...are all at the bridge of 2 applicants 1 job. I do believe a better system should be designed that emphasizes independence and weaning them off support, but I don't trust it to be designed by people who view welfare recipients as leeches on society. They are likely to design a system that doesn't take into account people's self-respect & dignity.

I think the current system tramples on people's self-respect and dignity by not providing a clear path back to independence. The current setup penalizes people who try and get a job since many of the "available" jobs barely pay, it makes more sense to stay on welfare.

They are likely to incorporate elements that reflect a lack of care for people in the system. Example: In the FL drug testing law specifies anyone who does use drugs needs to get treatment to re-apply 6 months later. What are the chances that someone applying for assistance can afford a drug treatment program? Most states are gutting mental health budgets as they implement requirements like this.

Check out the thread I posted in the political forum, it includes some statistics about drug use/abuse. A minority % of people currently on welfare are actually drug dependent.

 

[roubs]

Your statement is so untrue. I think you just responded emotionally to my post without thinking much. I'll just chalk it up to inexperience, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt. As posters above described, clients who must go to day treatment programs to obtain some monetary assistance (housing, food programs, etc). There are ALOT of clients (especially in the substance abuse world), when they are presented with this, you can't even finish an intake with them. When I am describing a client knowing me for 30 minutes and developing a hate relationship based on 30 minutes of discussion and him/her finding out they are not getting what they want and how they want it, and are not flexible...well....... What do you expect? lol There is a myriad of techniques that I am well aware of to employ in these situations, rolling with the resistance if you will.

At the end of the day, people are going to do what they want, and there are A LOT of people who abuse our welfare system. It doesn't make me a clinician incapable of having ability to develop rapport because I am unwilling to manipulate my clients into believing they need different types of help so that they can get other needs met.

Doesn't make me emotional, as I said I've seen this attitude with some who've worked in this setting for a while. What you're right about is I didn't take into account the setup of them making immediate changes as of the first session in order to receive benefits (that's what you're describing, right?). That's basically designing a built-in confrontation and so it's no surprise some people react by terminating immediately. Sounds like someone wanted to design a system that sets these people straight right away. If it makes some people terminate immediately guess it's just less work for everyone.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

I'm personally not very politically active (I'm wealthy, white, and well-educated enough that I don't have to be), so I guess I sometimes take for granted that we have a variety of opinions in the classroom. It was only when somebody explicitly said they were involved with the Tea Party that I felt shocked, I think, because I don't hear that particular viewpoint stated very often.

Then, to hear the professor caution that we need to remain respectful even of far-right viewpoints, caused my brain to work in another direction. I've really been given a lot to think about, and I'm glad that's the case.

For me, social work is a path to becoming a psychotherapist. I understand that the whole policy/advocacy side is riddled with political undertones, but that's just not what I'm interested in. I wonder if there has ever been a study done of social workers' political leanings that also looks at whether they practice in the mode of a counselor/therapist or in policy/advocacy? I would be interested in seeing such a study.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

Check out the thread I posted in the political forum, it includes some statistics about drug use/abuse. A minority % of people currently on welfare are actually drug dependent.

I can't find this thread. Could you link (or PM) me?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I can't find this thread. Could you link (or PM) me?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11585276

 

[slinger]

Doesn't make me emotional, as I said I've seen this attitude with some who've worked in this setting for a while. What you're right about is I didn't take into account the setup of them making immediate changes as of the first session in order to receive benefits (that's what you're describing, right?). That's basically designing a built-in confrontation and so it's no surprise some people react by terminating immediately. Sounds like someone wanted to design a system that sets these people straight right away. If it makes some people terminate immediately guess it's just less work for everyone.

Well in the VA system, there is an incentive in receiving different forms of treatment for some people. I have people all of the time begging for a diagnosis of PTSD, when they were never deployed, and DO NOT have symptoms that warrant a diagnosis of PTSD. If they describe all of the symptoms for a certain period of time they can get 100% service-connected which is well over $3200 per month, tax free. Dont' get me wrong, alot of these brave guys and gals completely deserve it, and I mean DESERVE it. I am a service-connected Vet myself. To see the people who would rather abuse the system over and over,this mirrors outside the VA and has been going on for years in CMHC's. As a therapist, you can feel pretty numb to this stuff.

No one designs how patients come into a clinic and what they request. If they request benefits and money, there is a path they must take. If they get upset and refuse to do treatment if it's warranted, I don't feel it is a system designed for confrontation. There has to be accountability and limits in the world.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Then, to hear the professor caution that we need to remain respectful even of far-right viewpoints, caused my brain to work in another direction. I've really been given a lot to think about, and I'm glad that's the case.

What is good for the goose should be good for the gander, though this is often not the case in academia. Issues of diversity and tolerance are typically beaten into students....except when the "diverse" opinion is a conservative one. It is quite the irony that all opinions are not appreciated equally, particularly in a setting that trumpets ethnic and cultural awareness and sensativity. It'd be easier to leave personal politics at the door of work, as they seem to only cause problems if you don't support the chosen team.

 

[roubs]

What is good for the goose should be good for the gander, though this is often not the case in academia. Issues of diversity and tolerance are typically beaten into students....except when the "diverse" opinion is a conservative one. It is quite the irony that all opinions are not appreciated equally, particularly in a setting that trumpets ethnic and cultural awareness and sensativity. It'd be easier to leave personal politics at the door of work, as they seem to only cause problems if you don't support the chosen team.

It still sounds like calling the whaaambulance to say "Why don't you pro-tolerance people tolerate my intolerance????" Many conservatives want to co-opt diversity , but that ignores the fact that being pro-diversity means being anti-uniformity or whatever you want to call it. If you are the pro-uniformity crowd you can't whine that the diversity people don't accept your position.

Do we have to tolerate and accept calls to return to racial segregation because they're in the mix of opinion? No, that would be antithetical to diversity and yet it could also be described as "an opinion that's out there"...subtext: "why don't you accept it, hypocrite!"

Admittedly, it can get circular to talk about this without naming specifics. In Biology for example, the "diverse, 'conservative' opinion" often exists outside the framework of scientific thought. Yet biologists' rejection of intelligent design is framed as trying to keep out diverse conservative thought.

In subjects where the conservative position falls within the framework of the academic subject, like economics, you have a wide range of opinions across the political spectrum that are debated in good faith.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It still sounds like calling the whaaambulance to say "Why don't you pro-tolerance people tolerate my intolerance????" Many conservatives want to co-opt diversity , but that ignores the fact that being pro-diversity means being anti-uniformity or whatever you want to call it. If you are the pro-uniformity crowd you can't whine that the diversity people don't accept your position.

That isn't it at all. Why is a conservative opinion being framed as "intolerant", and the opposing opinion being framed as "tolerant"? Suggesting such sweeping generalizations is sidestepping a very obvious bias. We all have that crazy uncle that does not represent the views of the entire family, yet in this case the entire family is being painted with the broad brush.

No one "owns" the issue of diversity, no matter how many times people assert that a conservative point of view cannot encompass and appreciate issues of diversity. I disagree that being pro-diversity requires being anti-uniformity, this is a false dichotomy. Having an appreciation for diversity issues within the context of our society is hugely important, and this includes appreciating a minority political opinion. Diversity is far more than just race, religion, and sexual preference.

In subjects where the conservative position falls within the framework of the academic subject, like economics, you have a wide range of opinions across the political spectrum that are debated in good faith.

Conservative positions are present across academia, though in many departments they are actively shunned. I'd love to have a fair debate, though the majority position (liberalism) that permeates academia is not welcoming of a more conservative point of view.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

Diversity is far more than just race, religion, and sexual preference.

This is correct. Diversity also encompasses political, economic, and other philosophical differences. But those on the left often seem not to see this, whereas those on the right often do. It's a very interesting phenomenon.

 

[roubs]

I dunno? Probably because while most people who are conservative aren't intolerant, most people who are sexist, racist, and homophobic happen to be conservative. They use liberal's values of openness and inclusion to cry out for acceptance of their misogyny and bigotry. And we're also being closed minded if we reject using science class to teach religion.

I'm not sure what you mean by "owning" diversity, but embracing diversity is a position that people are for or against. Painting conservatives as some oppressed group because you've been called out in a lecture hall is insulting to people whose safety or livelihood is threatened because of their group membership. That's where the whaaambulance comes in. By no means do I think conservatives should shut up or not have a presence on campus, after all, some of my best friends are conservative But I do roll my eyes when they protest about their "struggle".

 

[roubs]

This is correct. Diversity also encompasses political, economic, and other philosophical differences. But those on the left often seem not to see this, whereas those on the right often do. It's a very interesting phenomenon.

Embracing diversity is ultimately about outcomes. Why do we give a crap about it? Because knowing and interacting with each other is the best way to lower barriers for groups that have traditionally been denied employment, housing, access to college, ability to serve in the military. What is it exactly that is going on out there that conservatives are unable to do or access that should make me concerned? Honestly if you had some liberal liberal arts school out there trying to screen out conservative applicants then bingo, I'll jump on your bandwagon to go find out who should be fired.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

Embracing diversity is ultimately about outcomes. Why do we give a crap about it? Because knowing and interacting with each other is the best way to lower barriers for groups that have traditionally been denied employment, housing, access to college, ability to serve in the military.

No. You may speak only for yourself, not "we." I embrace diversity of thought because it helps me broaden my own perspective and helps me do my job better. It has nothing to do with lowering barriers for others. It seems you may be coming at this from the approach of social work as advocacy/social justice/policy, whereas I'm coming at it from the approach of social work as psychotherapy.

 

[roubs]

No. You may speak only for yourself, not "we." I embrace diversity of thought because it helps me broaden my own perspective and helps me do my job better. It has nothing to do with lowering barriers for others. It seems you may be coming at this from the approach of social work as advocacy/social justice/policy, whereas I'm coming at it from the approach of social work as psychotherapy.

I was speaking for the librulz justification for why diversity issues(the kind that promotes multiculturalism and the embracing of differences in wider society) matter. In relation to learning psychotherapy I think all people would do well to embrace different viewpoints.

 

[wigflip]

Then, to hear the professor caution that we need to remain respectful even of far-right viewpoints, caused my brain to work in another direction. I've really been given a lot to think about, and I'm glad that's the case.

I guess if what the prof meant was: "Let's not turn class discussion into a bloodbath," I agree. You can discuss differences without resorting to character assassination, name calling, and other personal attacks. I've been in the middle of too many of these intellectual assaults (though in my grad seminars they usually center on theoretical or methodological orthodoxies). Good profs will usually cover some form of "rules for civil discourse" in class or on their syllabi. Once things get ugly, it can be really hard to turn them around.

If what is meant is that we have to give equal credence to bigotry, or include the teaching of non-science in science class, then boo to that.

Here's a little (potentially offensive) treat for those of you who happen to believe in evolution. All text taken directly from online Christian fundamentalist forums. I have had to deal with comments of this caliber from some of my undergrads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO9IPoAdct8

(Personal favorites:
:20
:36
1:06
1:40)

 

[slinger]

My my, I do believe this conversation has taken a turn towards the funny.

Who would like a drink of water?



How are my redirection skills?

 

[roubs]

0:36 made my eyes water

 

[Neuropsych2be]

0:36 made my eyes water

"I know if I didn't have God's judgement to fear, I would have killed many times."


I live in the rural South and this is just too close to the reality I live with on a daily basis.

 

[wigflip]

"I know if I didn't have God's judgement to fear, I would have killed many times."

That was one of my favorites too!

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

Die, Christian, die!

 

[slinger]

"So much for evolution".

 

[Treatments]

Very nice post.
this is very informative thanks for sharing a nice post.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

You're welcome!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You're welcome!

They are a spammer....(link in sig), but I agree, it has been a good run of posts.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

They are a spammer....(link in sig), but I agree, it has been a good run of posts.

Well then, you're welcome, too!

P.S. I am reasonably certain that link was not in the signature last night. *shrug*

 

[wigflip]

They are a spammer....(link in sig), but I agree, it has been a good run of posts.

Ha ha--you're right. I just checked and all of their recent posts are short and sweet:
Very nice post! (link)
Thanks for sharing this! (link)
Thanks for posting this nice post! (link)

wonder why someone hawking chemo is on the psych forum.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

It may not even be an actual person but rather a computer program, so who knows? Such is life on the intarwebs!

 

[BeHereNow]

I think most people would love a mandatory work program. Unfortunately this whole 'system' your want falls apart when you have 2 applicants for every 1 job.

I am constantly referred to as a "social worker", but actually I am an eligibility worker - determine eligibility for welfare programs.
I have a BA in education, not an MSW.
I started in one state in 1977, left after 12 years, and now do the same work in a different state, the last 12 years.

My caseload is about 400 families.
I have healthy, (not making any claim of disability) adults who have been 'looking for work", with no luck, for over ten years. No fast food jobs available for 10 years, yeah, right.
I have healthy females, with mutiple children, who have never sought employment, they live off the income of the children, and social services, do not even look for work.
You would not believe all of the reasons adults give for QUITING employment.
Here are some recent ones:

Only getting 30 hours a week, not worth my time.
My son (seventh grade) is starting football practice, and my job interfers with watching his practices. (not games, juist practice)
I had to wait three weeks for my first pay, so I quit.
They wanted me to work overtime (paid), so I quit.
My manager made my job less than enjoyable.
~ ~ ~

People take vacations, to other states,and when they come home to a termination notice on a utility, they come to us, and we pay it.

Adult children (22-50) live with their parents, NEVER work, and get food stamps on zero income. If they have children, they get the medical card as well.
The parents pay for their cell phones, internet connections, but we have to feed them.
Some of these parents of our customers own apartment buildings. They provide free housing for their children, and give us statements saying they do not provide them with food, so they get food stamps.

These are not anomolies. These types of things are common.

We have one medical doctor, who applied for the medical card for his parents. Yes, they got it.
Another doctor came in with his parents to apply for food stamps, they were approved.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

I am constantly referred to as a "social worker", but actually I am an eligibility worker - determine eligibility for welfare programs.
I have a BA in education, not an MSW.
I started in one state in 1977, left after 12 years, and now do the same work in a different state, the last 12 years.

My caseload is about 400 families.
I have healthy, (not making any claim of disability) adults who have been 'looking for work", with no luck, for over ten years. No fast food jobs available for 10 years, yeah, right.
I have healthy females, with mutiple children, who have never sought employment, they live off the income of the children, and social services, do not even look for work.
You would not believe all of the reasons adults give for QUITING employment.
Here are some recent ones:

Only getting 30 hours a week, not worth my time.
My son (seventh grade) is starting football practice, and my job interfers with watching his practices. (not games, juist practice)
I had to wait three weeks for my first pay, so I quit.
They wanted me to work overtime (paid), so I quit.
My manager made my job less than enjoyable.
~ ~ ~

People take vacations, to other states,and when they come home to a termination notice on a utility, they come to us, and we pay it.

Adult children (22-50) live with their parents, NEVER work, and get food stamps on zero income. If they have children, they get the medical card as well.
The parents pay for their cell phones, internet connections, but we have to feed them.
Some of these parents of our customers own apartment buildings. They provide free housing for their children, and give us statements saying they do not provide them with food, so they get food stamps.

These are not anomolies. These types of things are common.

We have one medical doctor, who applied for the medical card for his parents. Yes, they got it.
Another doctor came in with his parents to apply for food stamps, they were approved.

Thank you for posting this. I couldn't imagine having a case load of 400 families.

 

[BeHereNow]

Thank you for posting this. I couldn't imagine having a case load of 400 families.

My employer (the state) tells me I have 450 in any given month, but includes intakes and closings.Out of about 20 counties, I am in one of three counties with the smallest caseload count. Not pulling my fair share, so to speak.I was a bleeding heart liberal when I started in 1977, no doubt about that.Now I am a social conservative.Did I change, or did the system change, as to be expected, both did.I spent my time in foster homes, have memories of the orphanage I lived in until age 5.I got my first job delivery papers in fifth grade, worked ever since. I paid my own way through college (some help with the GI bill).Been there, done that.The working poor have it no better than the poor by choice, I interview both.The whole system is failing.About half of all babies born in the U.S. are paid for by medical assistance.My state is wealthy, only 40%. Alaska 52%, and about the same for North Carolina.Medical Assistance is welfare, as I'm sure most of the lurkers know.Not much incentive to wait for another child, when all the bills are paid for.Good ideas and ideals gone bad.That's what I see in the social services.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

Do you think this is part of the reason so many social workers want to go into private practice?

I see lots of folks saying they want to go into private practice, but of course fewer actually do it. As long as you could work with only those who already have the ability to pay, that seems like it would be less stressful...

 

[BeHereNow]

Do you think this is part of the reason so many social workers want to go into private practice?

I see lots of folks saying they want to go into private practice, but of course fewer actually do it. As long as you could work with only those who already have the ability to pay, that seems like it would be less stressful...

It is important to note that I am frequentlhy called a 'social worker', but I am not.
Myself and coworkers have made referrals to the social sevice department, and they have been declined, because, the workers are at their max, about 12 cases.


I had a case where the woman was exempted from the work progrm, for cash assistance, due to domestic violence issues. My job was to ask the MSW if this woman was capable of returning to the workforce, or should continue counseling. I called the MSW for a decision, she asked me what I thought.
I replied that I had never met the woman, I had talked to her twice on the phone, and that the health department told me she was keeping most of her appointments. After a long akward moment of silence, I volunteered that if the MSW provided me a letter saying the customer should continue to be exempted from the work program, I could renew her benefits. It was clear I had more contact with this woman than the MSW, as the health department was actually handling her case.
Based on my 'recommendation', I received the exemption letter the same day.
There was no way this woman was going to participate in the work program.
It takes a lot of paperwork, and two months to close a case for noncompliance.
There were other ways she could get exempted from the work program, I was interested in the shortest route.

The future of government workers is bleak.
Insurane payment for private practice is also drying up.
From my perspective the future of social work is private practice, and I would think more than an MWS would be advised.

I see no indication that governmet social workers have any significant stress.

Our job as eligibility workers is 'not important' (per a direct statement from our director).
Yet on a daily basis if I do not do my job properly, the customers (as we are to call them) will not have medical cards for the children,will not have food to eat, will not have a roof over their head.

I am the one required to approve $1800 in benefits for a drug addict with 3 children, after waiting for over 2 months for this person to go to the Social Security office to apply for benefits. I opened his case on Friday, he received the benetifs Saturday, and I'd bet my next paycheck over half of it is gone by today. All within the regulations. $800 of it was in food stamps, and it takes longer to turn that into drugs than the $1100 he got in cash.
Yes, according to the regulation he was screened for addiction issues, none found.
If he does not declare a problem, none exists. That is how the system works.

It is my job to fix the problems caused by irresponsible adults, who failed to do things as simple as sign an application and return it within 6 weeks, after three notices we are still waiting.

On a regular basis I deal with ten times as many drug addicts, child abusers, neglectful parents, and generfally irreponsible adults and parents, compared to any MSW at our agency.

Their job is to imporve customer mental health and activities.
My job is is to see that they and the children are fed, clothed, have all of their medical bills paid for, have a place to live, have their utilities paid for.
I have about 6 cases where no one in the family of 5 persons works, and their net income is greater than my own.
Increase family size to 8 or 10, and their is another dozen.
Welfare families have more net income than their case managers. If you think that makes me feel good, you would be mistaken.
If you think my employer has any concern, you would be mistaken.

A woman with 2 children, had gross earnings of $17,200 last year, and got an EITC refund of $7000.
She had medical cards with no cost or co-pays for all of them, recieved food samps of $350+ on a bad month, had about $1000 paid on her utilitiy bills.
Compare that to my $34k gross, less $250 per month for health insurance, less about $50 per month in medical co-pays, less $140 per month for my pension, less 18% of my gross for taxes, less $200 per month for gasoline to and from work.
My four year degree and 25 years experience does not stack up well compared to her ability to make babies.

Of all of the reasons for an MSW to decide to NOT go into government employment, stess would be at the bottom.
Job security should be at the top.