Is St James School of Medicine Legit?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

ChrisC462

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Messages
20
Reaction score
5
I know they are accredited but can you work in the US if you attend this school? My brother got accepted into SJSM but since its in the caribbean and not one of the Big 4 schools I just want to know if its possible to find a job in the US after graduating from there.

Members don't see this ad.
 
I know they are accredited but can you work in the US if you attend this school? My brother got accepted into SJSM but since its in the caribbean and not one of the Big 4 schools I just want to know if its possible to find a job in the US after graduating from there.

Magic 8 Ball says: My sources say no.

Statistically, it is highly unlikely he will graduate in 4 years or be able to obtain a residency post-graduation. Tell your brother to seriously reconsider.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Magic 8 Ball says: My sources say no.

Statistically, it is highly unlikely he will graduate in 4 years or be able to obtain a residency post-graduation. Tell your brother to seriously reconsider.

Why is it unlikely that he will graduate in 4 years or obtain a residency post-graduation?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Why is it unlikely that he will graduate in 4 years or obtain a residency post-graduation?
Because even the big 4 Schools will have problems obtaining residency 4 yrs from now. Things are getting harder every passing day....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
What is it lately with concerned family members coming here and posting on their sibling's behalf?

Newsflash: They are grown-ups (or, at least, legally should be if they're in the process of applying/attending medical school) and you are not their keeper. It's okay to be concerned, but why not tell them to come here and post for themselves?

Sheesh.

-Skip
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
What is it lately with concerned family members coming here and posting on their sibling's behalf?

Newsflash: They are grown-ups (or, at least, legally should be if they're in the process of applying/attending medical school) and you are not their keeper. It's okay to be concerned, but why not tell them to come here and post for themselves?

Sheesh.

-Skip
A lot of the time people have blinders on, and see only the positive possibilities of their actions. Plus a lot of people have trouble differentiating between what's legit and what's BS in regard to what people in admissions are telling them, so they just buy the promises hook, line, and sinker. Family members can look at things more objectively and without the rose-colored glasses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
And your further assumption being that they will listen to said family members.

Umm...

:lol:

-Skip
 
Let me put it another way: I don't want any adult who is so weak-willed that their family member can influence their decisions potentially making medical decisions. What are they going to do when they are unsure about themselves on the wards? Call their brother?

:rolleyes:

-Skip
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
What is it lately with concerned family members coming here and posting on their sibling's behalf?

Newsflash: They are grown-ups (or, at least, legally should be if they're in the process of applying/attending medical school) and you are not their keeper. It's okay to be concerned, but why not tell them to come here and post for themselves?

Sheesh.

-Skip


I never claimed to be his keeper. Just because he's an adult that doesn't mean that his family cant be concerned about his decisions. He's not the one posting because he already made a decision to go to St James and he's already attending their program as we speak. Just because he's and adult that doesn't mean his decisions are always the best for him and if I see him heading in the wrong direction its my job as his brother to help steer him in the right path. I've always had my doubts about St James but he doesn't believe me and I keep finding mixed answers online. I just want to convince him that he's better off going to a medical school in the US instead of the caribbean.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I never claimed to be his keeper. Just because he's an adult that doesn't mean that his family cant be concerned about his decisions. He's not the one posting because he already made a decision to go to St James and he's already attending their program as we speak. Just because he's and adult that doesn't mean his decisions are always the best for him and if I see him heading in the wrong direction its my job as his brother to help steer him in the right path. I've always had my doubts about St James but he doesn't believe me and I keep finding mixed answers online. I just want to convince him that he's better off going to a medical school in the US instead of the caribbean.
If your brother got turned down by the big 4 carribean he won't get into a US med school without revolutionizing his app. If he can't get into at least a big 4, he simply won't be one of the ones that get a residency

This is a $200k bet with bad bad odds
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sometimes you can talk sense into them. Depends on your family dynamics.

I, personally, never want to be taken care of by someone who can't figure out this kind of crucial information in an autodidactic fashion. Sure, I seek input from techs, nurses, CRNAs, and other doctors all day long. But, I make my own decisions. And, I stand by them.

-Skip
 
I'm willing to assume the OP is a concerned family member, that doesn't really understand the situation and is worried his brother is making a big mistake.

The answer to your question is "Maybe, but it's a big uphill climb and a good number of people don't make it".

SJSM is a medical school, and awards an MD. In order to be successful, your brother would need to:

1. Complete the first two years of medical school, which are mostly about learning science -- physiology, anatomy, pathology etc. Mostly book learning.
2. Take the USMLE Step 1, a national exam that anyone willing to train in the US needs to take. He needs to get a good score on it to be competitive -- just "passing" could be a problem.
3. Complete 2 years of clinical training, doing rotations in US hospitals
4. Take the USMLE Step 2 CK and CS. The CK is a multiple choice exam testing clinical knowledge. Again, he needs to do well to be successful. The CS is a "fake patient" exam, it's pass/fail only. He needs to pass it on his first try.

Assuming he does all of that, he would then apply for residency positions in the US. His options for fields might be limited -- the least competitive fields are Family Medicine, Psychiatry, and Pathology -- although that could change over time. Many mid-competitive fields like IM and Anesthesia are obtainable. High-competitive fields like General surgery are very difficult. Ultra-competitive fields such as Dermatology and Orthopedic surgery are near impossible.

The problem is that there are multiple places he could end up in trouble:

A. His preclinical coursework, or Step 1. Chances are he did not get into the Big 4 or a US school because his GPA and/or MCAT wasn't good enough. Although these are not perfect, they do tend to predict who will do well in med school and who will not. The rate of learning in med school is very high -- much higher than most colleges. The support services in the carib schools tends to be weak. He could easily start failing courses, or not do well on the USMLE. He really gets only one try at the USMLE -- if he fails, he's in big trouble (although he can take it again to pass, once you fail your chances of getting a spot are more limited). If he passes and does poorly, you can't take it again.

B. Clinical rotations. Many of the less-well-known carib schools send their students to less ideal places. How good are SJSM rotations? I have no idea. But they could be terrible. And they could be unstable -- hospitals that currently let SJSM students rotate there could change their minds tomorrow. Some schools literally make students set up their own rotations. Some hospitals charge for this -- that would be on top of tuition.

C. Step 2 CK and CS -- same deal as before.

Any problems along the way, and he'll end up high and dry. If he gets a foreign MD and can't get a residency, there is NOTHING he can do with the degree. It will be worthless.

Now, let's say he does all of this and beats the odds. None of the carb schools are open about how many people fail out, and some try to string people along to collect as much tuition as possible. But let's assume all goes well, he scores well on the USMLE, does well on his rotations, gets good letters, and applies for a position. If you look here: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...s-in-the-Match-IMG_Final_Revised.PDF-File.pdf on Chart 15, it breaks the match down by country. They don't break it down by school. SJSM is on three different islands, and none of them are listed. But you can still see what happens. SGU is on Granada, and the match rate looks to be about 2/3 or so. Ross is on dominica, with a match rate of 50%. AUC on St Martin, match of 60+%. But look at the other little islands. It's pretty bad. And if he's not a US citizen, it's horrible.

So that's the scoop. Statistically, this is a terrible idea. Sure, it's possible that he could do fine and get a spot. Some people from SJSM will get a residency program. But many will end up in a mess. Is your brother going to be a top performer and be successful? Maybe -- but if so he should have taken the MCAT, scored high enough on it, and gotten into SGU/Ross/AUC where his chances would be much better. And there's some concern that things will get worse -- more US schools have opened and established schools have increased their class size. This MAY put a squeeze on smaller carib schools (it's complicated, there are entire threads about that topic!)

If you haven't read it, look at this thread and the blog linked in it: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/now-a-cautionary-tale.1107726/ He went to a non-big-4 carib school, and see how it worked out for him. This is what we are trying to warn you of.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 11 users
Members don't see this ad :)
GREAT! posting from aProgDirector... points needing to be better addressed are; 1. The high non graduation rates, that these schools really NEVER tell honestly. Ie, SMU class of 2010 started with 88, by 2007 white coat event down to 41, by May 2010 graduation from the May start class of 2006 less than 25 made it in 4 years. 2. The decreasing chances of obtaining a US post graduate residency. Ie, in FM in a 24slots total 3 year NJ residency in 2010 all 8 slots went to IMGs, by 2014 the 8 slots are 2/3s IMGs and 1/3 USMGs. A shift is occurring no matter what anyone says. There are just increasing #s of USMGs overtaking the # of residency slots. 3. The debt or funds spent with having a useless MD degree that without a residency to obtain a license to practice effects each and everyone of us. At the end of the day do everything it takes to get into a US MD/DO program, everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
My friend went to sjsom he is doing rotations now, he said it all depends on you as a student.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
My friend went to sjsom he is doing rotations now, he said it all depends on you as a student.

Ask your friend for an update after his/her residency application cycle. Or better yet, don't base career-defining half-million dollar decisions on anecdotes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Doing rotations IS NOT THE SAME THING AS RESIDENCY.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
@ChrisC462 I just wanted to quickly reply back to your question as a current Saint James student (MS3)
I can only tell you about my experience and the experience of those I associate with at the hospital (who also happen to be SJSM students). Most of us took our Step1 about 4 months after completing a compulsory pre-clinical course in Chicago. The majority of us scored well and about 60% went on to take step 2 ck on time are currently interviewing. I would say an average US citizen was able to obtain 14+ interviews with scores in the 230s-240s neighborhood. These are facts. Yes it was a lot of hard work, countless hours at the library and no the school did not help much. It's all on you. I don't think it really matters what school you go to, its all about your scores and how you present yourself during the interviews (research, volunteer etc). We have students that matched at Yale, university of Toronto, UIC, Nothwestern and by the same token, we have students that are applying for the 5th time in a row with no luck. It all depends on how much effort you're willing to put into it!

Hope this helps.
 
@ChrisC462 I just wanted to quickly reply back to your question as a current Saint James student (MS3)
I can only tell you about my experience and the experience of those I associate with at the hospital (who also happen to be SJSM students). Most of us took our Step1 about 4 months after completing a compulsory pre-clinical course in Chicago. The majority of us scored well and about 60% went on to take step 2 ck on time are currently interviewing. I would say an average US citizen was able to obtain 14+ interviews with scores in the 230s-240s neighborhood. These are facts. Yes it was a lot of hard work, countless hours at the library and no the school did not help much. It's all on you. I don't think it really matters what school you go to, its all about your scores and how you present yourself during the interviews (research, volunteer etc). We have students that matched at Yale, university of Toronto, UIC, Nothwestern and by the same token, we have students that are applying for the 5th time in a row with no luck. It all depends on how much effort you're willing to put into it!

Hope this helps.

are you trying to imply the majority of SJSM students scored >230?...
 
@sb247 No, I am not. As I said, we have students applying for the 5th time in a row. Surely, they didn't score 230+! But the point is, if you work hard, doesn't matter what school you go to, you'll see the results.
 
@sb247 No, I am not. As I said, we have students applying for the 5th time in a row. Surely, they didn't score 230+! But the point is, if you work hard, doesn't matter what school you go to, you'll see the results.

I think it's important to note that your school selection absolutely changes how high a bar you must clear to make it into residency
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Caribbean school seems to be too risky these days as PD seem to heavily favor US grads... I was told of someone who barely passed step 1 (191 when passing score was 188) and he got more than 10 IM interviews. He will know if he match next week. People who are very familiar with the match say he will... I thought PD would be skeptical about PR schools, but it seems like once schools have that LCME approval stamp, a lot of doors are open to them... I am not sure whether that is fair or not since everyone takes the same standardized exam (which is step 1), but since I don't know what objective/subjective criteria these PD use to make these decisions, I can't say it's wrong...

People should try multiple attempts at US schools (MD/DO) before heading to the Caribbean--even the big 4... 300k is too much money to gamble with...
 
Last edited:
I thought PD would be skeptical about PR schools, but it seems like once schools have that LCME approval stamp, a lot of doors are open to them...

Correct me if I'm wrong...

But do you mean Puerto Rican Schools by the PR in your statement?

If so Puerto Rican School are not really Caribbean schools. Since PR is a US territory, they are considered US schools and operate under the same accreditations and standards of US medical schools.

Caribbean school are pretty much everything else. So that's not really a good example.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Correct me if I'm wrong...

But do you mean Puerto Rican Schools by the PR in your statement?

If so Puerto Rican School are not really Caribbean schools. Since PR is a US territory, they are considered US schools and operate under the same accreditations and standards of US medical schools.

Caribbean school are pretty much everything else. So that's not really a good example.
I know PR is a US territory and their schools are low tier school... What I was trying to say is that once a school has that LCME stamp of approval, PD seems to be more lenient on their students... From reading the residency forum, carib students with 210+ step1 have a tough time to match even in FM... but a US student who barely passed step has more than 1o IM interviews just because he is from an LCME accredited school... Don't people think there is something wrong with that picture since everyone takes the same standardized exam, which is step 1?
 
I know PR is a US territory and their schools are low tier school... What I was trying to say is that once a school has that LCME stamp of approval, PD seems to be more lenient on their students... From reading the residency forum, carib students with 210+ step1 have a tough time to match even in FM... but a US student who barely passed step has more than 1o IM interviews just because he is from an LCME accredited school... Don't people think there is something wrong with that picture since everyone takes the same standardized exam, which is step 1?

Anyone can learn towards a test. It's the other parts that LCME approval requires that gives those schools a boost up compared to Caribbean schools. You get a known product with the LCME schools with the preclinical teaching as well as the types and general quality of the clinical rotations. You just don't have the same consistency amongst Caribbean schools.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The Puerto Rican schools are LCME accredited and their graduates are US Seniors.
These are not considered "caribbean" schools (geography notwithstanding).

The quality of both the didactic and clinical training is considered when choosing interviewees for residency, not just Step scores that are designed to give evidence of basic competency only, not excellence.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The Puerto Rican schools are LCME accredited and their graduates are US Seniors.
These are not considered "caribbean" schools (geography notwithstanding).

The quality of both the didactic and clinical training is considered when choosing interviewees for residency, not just Step scores that are designed to give evidence of basic competency only, not excellence.
I understand that, but the big 4 students do their rotations in the states, I think they should look at them differently...
 
I understand that, but the big 4 students do their rotations in the states, I think they should look at them differently... Some fairness need to be restored into the system.
The quality of training provided by schools offshore and on will affect the perceived strength of their grads.
Many schools considered "low tier" have historically produced excellent clinicians and thus PD's are willing at take a look at their grads. These schools have transparent MSPE's and grading that PD's trust. If the student has faced challenges and especially if there have been professionalism problems we have the expectation that they will be revealed. We can call their chairmen and an get a frank evaluation as well. Unfortunately, the Caribbean schools do not provide this type of transparency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I understand that, but the big 4 students do their rotations in the states, I think they should look at them differently...
They are looked at differently.

Though there is a lot of emphasis placed on step scores, qualitative factors are actually more important in resident ranking.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Excellent and thoughtful post by aPD.

Saint James published their match list last week.

The doctors on their list weighed the pros and cons on attending SJSM and (probably) made the right choice.
 
I know they are accredited but can you work in the US if you attend this school? My brother got accepted into SJSM but since its in the caribbean and not one of the Big 4 schools I just want to know if its possible to find a job in the US after graduating from there.
my daughter is in her third year at St James-she has had no problems with passing or rotations The state of Florida has no problem with her working here. We are assuming she will not have a problem with obtaining a residency. That is more test scores and experience.
 
my daughter is in her third year at St James-she has had no problems with passing or rotations The state of Florida has no problem with her working here. We are assuming she will not have a problem with obtaining a residency. That is more test scores and experience.

It might be a problem when it comes to matching. You can't apply to Florida for residency if your school isn't Florida accredited. You can do your residency elsewhere and THEN come to Florida. In that case, you have to ensure that you get residency in the ~35 states SJSM is accredited in first.

It's definitely a tough road. In any case, i hope everything does work out for your daughter!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Dear 'doctorsmom5594'; You sound so very proud of your daughter, as I was and am of my oldest son. But you and she need to fully understand that 'today's' chances of obtaining a match are decidedly much less possible than just 5 years ago. She needs very high StepI, IIk scores to be even offered interviews for residences. Plus great referral or LOR letters from clinical instructors. I wish her good hunting and luck. Regards Dr B
 
Dear 'doctorsmom5594'; You sound so very proud of your daughter, as I was and am of my oldest son. But you and she need to fully understand that 'today's' chances of obtaining a match are decidedly much less possible than just 5 years ago. She needs very high StepI, IIk scores to be even offered interviews for residences. Plus great referral or LOR letters from clinical instructors. I wish her good hunting and luck. Regards Dr B
Thank you- My daughter does have excellent letters and scores. She is also latino that speaks spanish fluently. She is doing elective rotations in Florida. She has been encouraged to apply for residency positions in her home town of Miami. She said more than half failed or dropped out before white coat. She added that they did not have a good idea about the amount of work that was involved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Just read your response - doctors mom..., There are only a few Family Med Residencies in Miami. The U, FIU, Baptist Hospital. The St James school grads will have an all most impossible time to obtain a spot, let alone an interview. Please have her apply to as many residences that are USIMG friendly as possible. Do not let her be foolish and only apply in FL! BTW what was her Step I score, over 225 I hope.....
 
Last edited:
Dear 'doctorsmom5594'; You sound so very proud of your daughter, as I was and am of my oldest son. But you and she need to fully understand that 'today's' chances of obtaining a match are decidedly much less possible than just 5 years ago. She needs very high StepI, IIk scores to be even offered interviews for residences. Plus great referral or LOR letters from clinical instructors. I wish her good hunting and luck. Regards Dr B
This is not true. There are data reports from the ACGME and NRMP that plainly show this is not true.

Your comment about step 1 score >225 is also not true. Matched IMGs, especially US-IMGs, have lower Step scores in basically every specialty than USMD grads. In 2014, the average Step 1 score for matched independent applicants in FM was 212. In 2013, the average Step 1 for match US-IMGs in FM was 206.

But I agree, if she wants to match she better apply to >100 programs all over the country, not just Florida programs.
 
Last edited:
Just read your response - doctors mom..., There are only a few Family Med Residencies in Miami. The U, FIU, Baptist Hospital. The St James school grads will have an all most impossible time to obtain a spot, let alone an interview. Please have her apply to as many residences that are USIMG friendly as possible. Do not her foolish any only apply in FL! BTW what was her Step I score over 225 I hope.....

Why is that? FM is not that competitive and these programs have taken IMG before...
 
All programs are competitive when you are coming from a foreign medical school, some more then others.
 
This is not true. There are data reports from the ACGME and NRMP that plainly show this is not true.

Your comment about step 1 score >225 is also not true. Matched IMGs, especially US-IMGs, have lower Step scores in basically every specialty than USMD grads. In 2014, the average Step 1 score for matched independent applicants in FM was 212. In 2013, the average Step 1 for match US-IMGs in FM was 206.

But I agree, if she wants to match she better apply to >100 programs all over the country, not just Florida programs.

I was saying if she 'hopes' for interviews, the higher the Step I score the better! At or above a 225 , her chances vastly improve to obtain at least an interview. As for matching - a crap shoot.. Of course there are matches below that Step I score. But if you can not gain interviews by applying to 'multiple' FM residencies than she will be another in debt USIMG. The initial response was for the 'doctors mom'... Argus, thanks for your insights.
 
my daughter is in her third year at St James-she has had no problems with passing or rotations The state of Florida has no problem with her working here. We are assuming she will not have a problem with obtaining a residency. That is more test scores and experience.
How did it turn out? is st. james legit?
 
They are about to lose their CAAMHP accreditation so i'd say...No, they are not legit...
 
Thank you- My daughter does have excellent letters and scores. She is also latino that speaks spanish fluently. She is doing elective rotations in Florida. She has been encouraged to apply for residency positions in her home town of Miami. She said more than half failed or dropped out before white coat. She added that they did not have a good idea about the amount of work that was involved.

This is a flat out lie. SJSM does not have Floridia approval and therefore the students are absolutely not allowed to do rotations in the state. There is zero chance she is doing elective rotations in Florida for course credit. She may be doing some sort of shadowing, but she is 100% NOT doing her electives there.

She CAN get a residency in Florida however, even coming from a school like SJSM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Dear 'doctorsmom5594'; You sound so very proud of your daughter, as I was and am of my oldest son. But you and she need to fully understand that 'today's' chances of obtaining a match are decidedly much less possible than just 5 years ago. She needs very high StepI, IIk scores to be even offered interviews for residences. Plus great referral or LOR letters from clinical instructors. I wish her good hunting and luck. Regards Dr B
 
To those interested in how st James worked out for my daughter, she just went to an interview at einstein for internal medicine residency, she did have close to 225, then over 250 on step 2, bilinqual and a mph, was teaching assistant for head of department for 1.5 years, she is married now and has a 3 year old. We are waiting on match. 10 interviews, she applied broadly. The programs that contacted her were from her home state or where she went to undergrad in northeast
 
Top