Food

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Some of that vascular surgery stuff looks pretty ridiculous. I see these guys on youtube, doing stuff with their fingers that I can't even do as a guitarist. It looks like something I doubt I could be trained for. So how many of you doing surgery rotations feel that it is something you could do easily, or without too much trouble?
 

BlueElmo

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Some of that vascular surgery stuff looks pretty ridiculous. I see these guys on youtube, doing stuff with their fingers that I can't even do as a guitarist. It looks like something I doubt I could be trained for. So how many of you doing surgery rotations feel that it is something you could do easily, or without too much trouble?
You're posting this on Pre-Allo forum, you know.


Just ask me again in a few years, and I might know.
 

Web MD

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It's all smoke and mirrors, and there are hundreds of perfectly good veins in the human body, so if you miss reattaching one or two severed ones, worst case scenario your colleagues will probably just have a good laugh later :laugh:
 

Kaustikos

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It's all smoke and mirrors, and there are hundreds of perfectly good veins in the human body, so if you miss reattaching one or two severed ones, worst case scenario your colleagues will probably just have a good laugh later :laugh:
Not to mention - they probably won't complain...since they're dead:laugh: jk
 

45408

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It's all smoke and mirrors, and there are hundreds of perfectly good veins in the human body, so if you miss reattaching one or two severed ones, worst case scenario your colleagues will probably just have a good laugh later :laugh:
Except when you've clamped off the blood supply to an organ/limb, and you have a limited amount of time before you will kill that body part unless you re-establish blood flow. Time is tissue, and it'll die if you don't finish in time.
 

J ROD

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Some of that vascular surgery stuff looks pretty ridiculous. I see these guys on youtube, doing stuff with their fingers that I can't even do as a guitarist. It looks like something I doubt I could be trained for. So how many of you doing surgery rotations feel that it is something you could do easily, or without too much trouble?
There probably is some natural ability involved, but alot more training accounts for their ability. It can be amazing what can be learned with enough practice.

Just think about those martial arts guys that can break trees with their femur after they condition it over years of training!!
 

BlueElmo

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There probably is some natural ability involved, but alot more training accounts for their ability. It can be amazing what can be learned with enough practice.

Just think about those martial arts guys that can break trees with their femur after they condition it over years of training!!
I don't need training to do that. I can break concrete with my radius and ulna.:D
 

Narmerguy

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He performed surgery at the age of seven. So no surgery is not as hard as it looks. "Surgery so easy a seven year old can do it."
I didn't look at the link but no. Just no. 7 year olds can't do surgery.
 

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Not in my opinion. My opinion of course, depends on my definition of "hard."
 
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Here is the youngest surgeon on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9BrgT0s9eQ

Info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrit_Jaswal

He performed surgery at the age of seven. So no surgery is not as hard as it looks. "Surgery so easy a seven year old can do it."
He's just a child prodigy who went to medical school. There are actually others like him. His medical knowledge doesn't impress me - his natural ability allows him to understand the science, and the rest is just hours of him sitting down and reading books (like all medical students). In other words, he of course doesn't magically know everything - he had to have read it and memorized it. He is also good at projecting a mature, adult presence which also has an effect. I really feel bad for him - he cannot be held responsible for making medical decisions at that age. The fact of the matter is while parts of his brain are highly developed, I suspect there are other parts which are still child-like and developing. Also, his IQ is only 146 according to the Wikipedia article, so I'm hesitant to think he's some kind of ridiculous prodigy at all. Now, if we were talking in the 180+ range...
 

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Some of that vascular surgery stuff looks pretty ridiculous. I see these guys on youtube, doing stuff with their fingers that I can't even do as a guitarist. It looks like something I doubt I could be trained for. So how many of you doing surgery rotations feel that it is something you could do easily, or without too much trouble?

No, it's not difficult if you have the training (I am a vascular surgeon). One of my best vascular surgery professors went down in a plane crash, burned off two DIP joints of eight fingers (thumbs were OK) and is a awesome surgeon. This guy out operates most of us with ten fingers and he has two left. Surgery rotation was great fun and quite interesting.
 

sdguy2008

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No, it's not difficult if you have the training (I am a vascular surgeon). One of my best vascular surgery professors went down in a plane crash, burned off two DIP joints of eight fingers (thumbs were OK) and is a awesome surgeon. This guy out operates most of us with ten fingers and he has two left. Surgery rotation was great fun and quite interesting.

does this surgeon's last name start with a K?
 

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The art of surgery is knowing when to cut, not how to cut, and perhaps creating new procedures. A chimp could be trained to do the actual cutting.
 

bigbad

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He's just a child prodigy who went to medical school. There are actually others like him. His medical knowledge doesn't impress me - his natural ability allows him to understand the science, and the rest is just hours of him sitting down and reading books (like all medical students). In other words, he of course doesn't magically know everything - he had to have read it and memorized it. He is also good at projecting a mature, adult presence which also has an effect. I really feel bad for him - he cannot be held responsible for making medical decisions at that age. The fact of the matter is while parts of his brain are highly developed, I suspect there are other parts which are still child-like and developing. Also, his IQ is only 146 according to the Wikipedia article, so I'm hesitant to think he's some kind of ridiculous prodigy at all. Now, if we were talking in the 180+ range...
He didn't go to medical school. That would mean he would have started when he was 3? Technically he isn't a surgeon since he's not actually certified but he's a smart kid who's interested in surgery and he somehow got opportunities to try it out.

You can see the med students look a little embarrassed or uneasy when he's talking to them :laugh:
 
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He didn't go to medical school. That would mean he would have started when he was 3? Technically he isn't a surgeon since he's not actually certified but he's a smart kid who's interested in surgery and he somehow got opportunities to try it out.

You can see the med students look a little embarrassed or uneasy when he's talking to them :laugh:
True, he was not in medical school at the time. But he had spent most of his time reading anatomy atlases and other medical texts. Then some docs let him hang around them, and he picked up some stuff. He never had any formal training, I guess. I dunno - kids like that seriously creep me out. I mean, he's claiming to be working on some novel oral gene therapy for cancer. I highly doubt his understanding is good enough to give him a decent shot at it. He will have to go to medical school, and at least spend some time learning about all the previous studies on cancer treatment. Like I said though, I feel bad for him. He's too smart to be in regular school, and he's basically a child stuck in an adult's world. It can't possibly be easy on him. Despite his intelligence, I don't think he will be able to take the stress. You see this sort of thing in prodigal athletes or musicians all the time.
 

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EVERY time a surgeon comes to speak and holds a Q and A i foolishly ask whether the hand-eye coordination you need as a surgeon is an innate gift...

(so far) they ALWAYS say after tons of practice you just build the muscle memory to keep your hands very still and make precise and accurate movements.

i dont really think i'll do surgery (way too much of a commitment for me) but being able to 'fix' people with your bare hands must be so awesome.
 

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Hard = interventional neuroradiology. Try snaking a catheter up someone's MCA to coil them. Or try correcting a vein of galen malformation in a newborn. Ever play the game "operation", where you can't touch the sides of the opening? That's what this is like, except the patient is dead if you do.
 

Jolt21

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So how many of you doing surgery rotations feel that it is something you could do easily, or without too much trouble?
i live with two 4th year med students and know practically their whole class....so i have some insight as an outsider.

its not a matter of "do you think i can learn it?" that students ask, because for any specialty, you will have all the training you need to do anything. if you think about, everyone goes it with the same amount of knowledge (read: none), so there is an equal playing field. you will know what you need to know, so dont worry about that.

what you need to worry about is if your body can handle the physical and mental demands of job. tons of students at this med school go in thinking "i'm gonna do surgery! i've always wanted to be a surgeon! yeaaaaa!"...then they start the rotation. go in at 4 am, leave around 7-8pm, then you have to squeeze in any studying time possible. by the time they are done with the rotation, they are set that this is not the lifestyle for them. they are so sick with schooling, that they just want it to be over with. my roommate was thinking surgery at this time last year, he is now doing radiology. his girlfriend was also thinking surgery at this time last year, she is now doing pediatrics. there are only 2 confirmed people matching with surgery as their #1 choice, and about 2 more i can think of teetering on the edge. waaaaaay below what the # was when the class entered...

as if that wasn't enough, apparently 4am-7pm might have been a little easy for them. the students have been talking about that at this hospital, there aren't as many OR suites and the patient volume isn't as large as it would be at an urban hospital or bigger city in general. so the students that are pondering surgery are scared that when they get to the residency, they may flake out b/c it will be much harder than what they experienced here.

all in all, dont worry if your hands can do it. i have confidence that if someone made is this far in schooling, they can learn some maneuvers with their hands. worry about if your mind can do it, and be concerned with how you want to live the rest of your life (do you want to start a family, are you already involved in a relationship, is personal time important to you, etc.). it's a lot to ponder.
 

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i live with two 4th year med students and know practically their whole class....so i have some insight as an outsider.

its not a matter of "do you think i can learn it?" that students ask, because for any specialty, you will have all the training you need to do anything. if you think about, everyone goes it with the same amount of knowledge (read: none), so there is an equal playing field. you will know what you need to know, so dont worry about that.

what you need to worry about is if your body can handle the physical and mental demands of job. tons of students at this med school go in thinking "i'm gonna do surgery! i've always wanted to be a surgeon! yeaaaaa!"...then they start the rotation. go in at 4 am, leave around 7-8pm, then you have to squeeze in any studying time possible. by the time they are done with the rotation, they are set that this is not the lifestyle for them. they are so sick with schooling, that they just want it to be over with. my roommate was thinking surgery at this time last year, he is now doing radiology. his girlfriend was also thinking surgery at this time last year, she is now doing pediatrics. there are only 2 confirmed people matching with surgery as their #1 choice, and about 2 more i can think of teetering on the edge. waaaaaay below what the # was when the class entered...

as if that wasn't enough, apparently 4am-7pm might have been a little easy for them. the students have been talking about that at this hospital, there aren't as many OR suites and the patient volume isn't as large as it would be at an urban hospital or bigger city in general. so the students that are pondering surgery are scared that when they get to the residency, they may flake out b/c it will be much harder than what they experienced here.

all in all, dont worry if your hands can do it. i have confidence that if someone made is this far in schooling, they can learn some maneuvers with their hands. worry about if your mind can do it, and be concerned with how you want to live the rest of your life (do you want to start a family, are you already involved in a relationship, is personal time important to you, etc.). it's a lot to ponder.
While that might all be true to some extent, it is also true that working an average of 80 hrs/week over the course of a month is standard policy and law if I am not mistaken. Which is held true for ALL residencies, surgery doesn't have it any worse when it comes to hours worked in residency, then your primary care physician.

:wow::wow::wow::lock::nono::nono::claps::prof::zip::zip:
 

osumc2014

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While that might all be true to some extent, it is also true that working an average of 80 hrs/week over the course of a month is standard policy and law if I am not mistaken. Which is held true for ALL residencies, surgery doesn't have it any worse when it comes to hours worked in residency, then your primary care physician.

:wow::wow::wow::lock::nono::nono::claps::prof::zip::zip:
Yes but he is talking about medical students, which the law doesnt apply to...also the students would often stay longer because they want to impress the surgeons
 

vickpick

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I didn't look at the link but no. Just no. 7 year olds can't do surgery.
I think a girl in India had a birth condition where she had all four finger attached.. most surgeons in India refused to operate either due to thei lack of such intelligence or for the fear of not getting the money from the poor parents...

the kid operated for free and the surgery was successful ... this is what happened in reality... so, yes a 11 y.o. (he was 11 when he did that) can operate... Its just that not all of them can..
 

osumc2014

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I think a girl in India had a birth condition where she had all four finger attached.. most surgeons in India refused to operate either due to thei lack of such intelligence or for the fear of not getting the money from the poor parents...

the kid operated for free and the surgery was successful ... this is what happened in reality... so, yes a 11 y.o. (he was 11 when he did that) can operate... Its just that not all of them can..
So if an 11 y.o. can who's to say that we cant! :laugh: