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New SDN Article! What’s an Internal Medicine Residency Really Like?
Your post sounds like flame bait. If you have no interest in surgery, why come to the surgery forum and cast aspersions on the field people here love?
Maybe what you're getting at is that some aspects of surgery really interest you, but you've heard things about the lifestyle that frighten you. If that's the case
1) The lifestyle issues have been covered in a number of useful prior posts. try a search. With 1000+ posts you should be facile at that.
2) Come back with a rephrased question after #1
Maybe what you're getting at is that some aspects of surgery really interest you, but you've heard things about the lifestyle that frighten you. If that's the case
1) The lifestyle issues have been covered in a number of useful prior posts. try a search. With 1000+ posts you should be facile at that.
2) Come back with a rephrased question after #1
Go enjoy FP then and don't post idiotic things. Why buy a Ferrari? You cant' drive it everyday, gets ass poor gas mileage, and only seats 2 people...why, cause you LOVE it.docmemi said:
Not too hard to figure out.
dudes, why not just ignore this shmoe's post?? obviously a silly first-year med student without any idea what he's talking about.
docmemi said:
Why become a jet pilot, why try to become an astronaut, why try to make it big as an actor, why do anything difficult and not mainstream?
Any shmuck can get married and have a family. It's called the average life. Get to work by 9a.m., home by about 6p.m., dinner with the family, watch some T.V., go to bed...repeat over and over and over. Oh yeah some free time on the weekends to do other ordinary things most other ordinary people do. All the while regretting that you didn't take chances and do more with your life.
But you can settle for the "normal" life if you want. 99.9% of the population has.
Most people outside of surgery don't quite understand it...
as a resident, one will work long hours and take a lot of crap...
when you graduate, one can taylor your lifestyle based on what you want...you can work in private practice, be in academics, or a mixture of both...they have advantages and disadvantages...and you can work 80 hour/wk as an attending, or work 60 hours/wk...you can make more or make less money, have a lot of free time or little...not all surgeons have the same lifestyle...some like working all the time, others like a more balanced lifestyle of family and other hobbies...etc...location of practice also influences the type of practice and lifestyle one may have or want...
bottom line...if you like surgery, go into it...lifestyle after residency is what you make of it.
as a resident, one will work long hours and take a lot of crap...
when you graduate, one can taylor your lifestyle based on what you want...you can work in private practice, be in academics, or a mixture of both...they have advantages and disadvantages...and you can work 80 hour/wk as an attending, or work 60 hours/wk...you can make more or make less money, have a lot of free time or little...not all surgeons have the same lifestyle...some like working all the time, others like a more balanced lifestyle of family and other hobbies...etc...location of practice also influences the type of practice and lifestyle one may have or want...
bottom line...if you like surgery, go into it...lifestyle after residency is what you make of it.
If taking chances meanBo Hurley said:
1. Your wife will divorce you
2. You will never sleep
3. You will start balding prematurely due to stress
4. You will develop a pot belly due to a lack of exercise and being limited to fast food because you don't have time to cook.
5. Not be able to plan vacations and join your radiologist and optho friends who go to Las Vegas and LA for the weekend to party and spend their money because you are on call.
6. You fail to get laid in real life because women assoicate surgeon with Christian Troi and Extreme Makover and you fit neither of these.
7. Wishing you went into radiology, gas, GI and other lifestyle fields when you discover the image you conceived as an MS4 didn't translate to more than being a glorified indentured servant who lives at the hospital.
Divorce, Obesity, Lack of Sleep, Lawsuits, Being over-worked...yeah this is so unique and unlike any NORMAL American worker today.
If you want to be unique, go into radiology and use your 6-8 weeks of vacation each year to travel the world....first class.
To Daelroy-
That was a pretty mean-spirited post. What the [email protected] do you care if someone you don't know wants to spend their life this way? Maybe you should be happy there ARE people willing to make sacrifices in lifestyle to do the important life-saving work of surgery. I guarantee if you showed up to an ER at 3am on a weekend with a hot appendix you would kiss the feet of the surgeon who was available to save your life (and maybe even the anesthesiologist too). All medical fields are important and different people have different values- and that's a great thing.
That was a pretty mean-spirited post. What the [email protected] do you care if someone you don't know wants to spend their life this way? Maybe you should be happy there ARE people willing to make sacrifices in lifestyle to do the important life-saving work of surgery. I guarantee if you showed up to an ER at 3am on a weekend with a hot appendix you would kiss the feet of the surgeon who was available to save your life (and maybe even the anesthesiologist too). All medical fields are important and different people have different values- and that's a great thing.
This guy is a first year Med student? Haha oh boy 
I remember when I was there, I didn't know anything. You'll probably change your mind about what you want to do 100 times. Concentrate on your grades, study hard, and don't start worrying for two more years.
I remember when I was there, I didn't know anything. You'll probably change your mind about what you want to do 100 times. Concentrate on your grades, study hard, and don't start worrying for two more years.
Just like the Harley Davidson Bumpersticker
"If you have to ask you wouldn't understand"
--round with some surgeons go to the OR see some procedures you'll know. Either you dont like it or you never want to leave.
"If you have to ask you wouldn't understand"
--round with some surgeons go to the OR see some procedures you'll know. Either you dont like it or you never want to leave.
You're breaking my heart. Did you read Bo Hurley's thread? If you want to talk about arrogance just read that thread again. As if "normal" people are bad. He compared actors, astronauts and jet pilots to surgeonss implying that surgeons were somehow better than normal people. Yeah, it's nice to see that you said nothing in regards to his post, I wonder why. Maybe it's because it spoke well of surgeons and that you are obviously biased. At least be fair with your criticism. My response was arrogant and it was purposely written with that in mind to bring Bo back down to earth.powermd said:
You seem like a good person and I agree that we need all types of physicians. I just think people should go into surgery because they enjoy it and not because they are simply striving to be a rebel You shouldn't go into surgery because you feel the need to take "chances in life." That's a stupid reason for becoming a surgeon just like it's a stupid reason for becoming a radiologist for the vacation time. Surgery is not some romantic journey. It's a passion and calling in life. Surgeons are amazing people who play a vital role in society. You and any other surgeon would be lying if you didn't admit that some people go into surgery for the perceived image.
You are all clueless. My exhusband is a Surgeon who gets 13 weeks vacation a year and earns about 300,000.
Residency life is cruel for surgery but afterward life can be very sweet.
Just read some job descriptions on careermd.com
Good Luck and become a surgeon because you love it not the money.
Residency life is cruel for surgery but afterward life can be very sweet.
Just read some job descriptions on careermd.com
Good Luck and become a surgeon because you love it not the money.
QuestionsGucciMD said:
1. What size city does he live in?
2. What type of surgeon is he?
3. How many hours per week does he work?
Bear in mind, that as a medical student in an academic setting you have a very skewed view of practice options. One of the benefits of rotating at a community hospital is seeing that there are as many lifestyle options as there are surgeons. While you may never work a 9-5 schedule, a good partnership will allow you vacation, days off during the week, the ability to schedule cases and office hours to suit yourself and perhaps even work part-time. I know of no surgeon, including academic types who work every day, 7 days a week, who can't go out at night on the town etc. Even academic surgeons have colleagues cover their patients when they take time off. If you want to work 24/7 you can, but don't accept the academic model as the only option.
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GucciMD said:
This is true.
One thing no one has said, surgeons arent replaceable, meaning you wont have some NP or PA or whatever doing your job next month when a CEO finds out they are more efficient. Surgery is the Rolls-Royce of job security, you do it, no one else can. That, regardless of how hard it is to achieve is priceless, truly priceless. As a surgeon, your skills are completely portable, youre recession proof, protected.
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Give the guy some credit. At least he's not the other kind of shmo you guys typically see-- the naive high school student who, after seeing an episode of ER, says 'I DEFINITELY wanna be a [trauma/neuro/CT] surgeon! Rah Rah Rah!" And has no f---ing clue what kind of sacrifice that actually entails.shahkg said:This guy is a first year Med student? Haha oh boy
I remember when I was there, I didn't know anything. You'll probably change your mind about what you want to do 100 times. Concentrate on your grades, study hard, and don't start worrying for two more years.
When did I say "normal" people are "bad"? I've said some people want more than the normal life, and to get that you have to live a life that isn't routine like most other people. It's a choice: Most people don't have it in them to go against the grain and so just settle for the normal life like everyone else while others want more. And as one saying I've heard goes: "Most people don't become surgeons not because they don't want to, but rather because they couldn't." The same applies to other high achieving careers. Not everyone can be a jet pilot, movie star, formula 1 driver, great author, great artist, etc. Doesn't mean they don't want to be one though.daelroy said:
i think you're the one who's having difficulty understanding..
i'll sum up: not everyone is looking for an "easier job"..
i'll sum up: not everyone is looking for an "easier job"..
I don't know what's more fascinating: the fact that people continually ask on EVERY FORUM "why go into x?" or the fact that people continually post "here's why you shouldn't go into x (usually accompanied by figures demonstrating that the money is not there)." What's the point, either way? You're either a) looking for someone to convince you to do said specialty, in which case you shouldn't bother doing it; or b) you are attempting to challenge a whole bunch of people who LIKE said specialty to suddenly give it all up because you made them "see the light."
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wow. im not disagreeing with anyone here. geez. i apologize for trying to get some help. im not trying to argue with you guys. im trying to get help in figuring out what i want to do. yes, im a first year and i should prolly not care right now, but i do cause i have to do a summer research project and it all depends on what i want to do with my life but im only a first year who doesnt know crap so im here to get help from you guys.
geezzz. sorry. lets close this stupid thread already. goodbye. talk to you on another thread. thanks for all of your thoughts! good luck.
geezzz. sorry. lets close this stupid thread already. goodbye. talk to you on another thread. thanks for all of your thoughts! good luck.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!! All those things will veritably happen to you. But the point is that your heart is so saturated with surgery that you still want it even if wanting it leaves you : Large- single- insomniac- dangerously close to balding. Even my Progam director just got divorced. Again the marrow of the conversation is that YOU STILL LOVE surgery despite all this.PERIODdaelroy said:
Bo Hurley said:
I know I may never get married. Infact most men dont want to tie the knot with a female who carves Gall bladders and thyroids out of people for a living . The offsprings if ,and when, there are any, get a totally turbulent upbringing as the mom is boveying because she just cant get enuf of that smell of burnt flesh. What a crock. If you're talking about people not in medical school, maybe you have a point. The majority of people in med school "could" have done surgery. Most of them, me included, truly didn't want to be a surgeon. Don't let your ego get out of control. The majority of other specialists could have done your job if they enjoyed it.Bo Hurley said:
Whisker Barrel Cortex said:
Could've, should've, would've....
That's what I keep hearing from people who didn't go into surgery. Bottom line though is that they didn't, and often they try to explain why by bringing up their family, lack of free time, blah, blah, blah.
And it's usually people in the cake specialties (i.e. anesthesiology, radiology, etc) who keep talking about how they "could've" been a surgeon.
I love it when people say this stuff because it's so ignorant. Oh, we chose to do surgery, so therefore we can't complain about any aspect of it because we love it so much that we drank the Kool-Aid? In that case, you should buy into your own propoganda and NEVER EVER COMPLAIN whatever you go into because YOU CHOSE IT AND SO YOU LOVE IT. Keep telling yourself that as you slit your wrists a few years from now (but with a ******ed grin stuck on your face because you love it).Leukocyte said:Dudes....If you want to go into General Surgery, then by all means, please do. I do not care, nor does the general public. Its your life, do whatever you want with it. Just please, do not bi*ch and moan during your 5-6 year residency (and do not dispalce your "anger and bitterness" onto the residents, medical students, and the OR staff when you become an attending) beacuse my friends, no one will feel sorry for you since you, and you alone, made the decision to make GS you life's career.
Good Luck.
My my. So much for thinking that we will never treat students the way we were treated...Silly first year? And what are you? A world class attending? Or an ALMOST pitiful intern??? Please do your best not to perpetuate the hazing of medical students.doc05 said:
As a first year, any question is valid.
Seriously, you need to get over yourself. I have no reason to explain why I didn't do surgery, I just didn't want to do it. Period. Maybe you didn't understand that statement. I'll repeat it. Just as you didn't want to be a radiologist, I didn't want to be surgeon. Its pretty easy to understand, if you can see past your frickin ego.Bo Hurley said:Could've, should've, would've....
That's what I keep hearing from people who didn't go into surgery. Bottom line though is that they didn't, and often they try to explain why by bringing up their family, lack of free time, blah, blah, blah.
And it's usually people in the cake specialties (i.e. anesthesiology, radiology, etc) who keep talking about how they "could've" been a surgeon.
By the way, most of the "should've" comments come from surgery regarding radiology or anesthesiology, not the other way around.
Denial said:
If you're going to be a sugar momma then I'm sure you'll be able to marry some hot young stud who will provide you with human "offsprings".
Fidelity, on the other hand, is something that I am not willing to discuss.
I could care less if my wife to be carved horses in a slaughter factory. She just better be around so we can have some time together verses having her chasing pager calls down.
Eau de bovie is quite alluring, working on a patent at this time.
look peeps,
just find your thing and go for it. if you love surgery, then do it. if you love family practice, radiology, im, whatever, then do it and be happy.
i think that a lot of the angst-ridden "why do surgery" posts stem from the fact that there is a perception that surgery residency is the most difficult residency out there. and most medical students equate "most difficult" with "best", or "most prestigious". this thinking that we must always choose the most difficult path, and excel in this difficult path, must be abandoned when choosing a specialty. decide what you love to do, and consider the sacrifice you are willing to make to do that thing. if you love surgery as a medical student, but would prefer more humane and predictable hours, then consider one of the many other options.
i know many er residents who picked er for the "lifestyle" of relatively highly-paid shift work. i think that's sad, but what the f*** does it matter what i think to the guys who picked er? it's their lives... same goes for anyone in any other specialty.
there are a considerable number of residents out there though whom chose specialties not based upon what they themselves wanted but on perceptions that others hold. i have met anesthesia, radiology, fp, im, and er residents who have told me that they wish they had done surgery. i have met surgical residents who have told me they wished they had done fp. i know of one radiology resident who left her program to start a surgery residency, and vice versa. all of the "i could have done (fill in the blank)if i wanted to" comments generally point to an uncertainty of specialty choice.
i am pretty happy in my surgical residency. but some days i wonder what if... it's human. but the truth is, i could never see myself being anything other than a surgeon. and hopefully, every other resident in every other field feels the same way about theirc choices of specialties.
to all my sdn peeps reading this... just pick your poison (thoughtfully and for your own reasons) and then go for it full-force.
good luck.
just find your thing and go for it. if you love surgery, then do it. if you love family practice, radiology, im, whatever, then do it and be happy.
i think that a lot of the angst-ridden "why do surgery" posts stem from the fact that there is a perception that surgery residency is the most difficult residency out there. and most medical students equate "most difficult" with "best", or "most prestigious". this thinking that we must always choose the most difficult path, and excel in this difficult path, must be abandoned when choosing a specialty. decide what you love to do, and consider the sacrifice you are willing to make to do that thing. if you love surgery as a medical student, but would prefer more humane and predictable hours, then consider one of the many other options.
i know many er residents who picked er for the "lifestyle" of relatively highly-paid shift work. i think that's sad, but what the f*** does it matter what i think to the guys who picked er? it's their lives... same goes for anyone in any other specialty.
there are a considerable number of residents out there though whom chose specialties not based upon what they themselves wanted but on perceptions that others hold. i have met anesthesia, radiology, fp, im, and er residents who have told me that they wish they had done surgery. i have met surgical residents who have told me they wished they had done fp. i know of one radiology resident who left her program to start a surgery residency, and vice versa. all of the "i could have done (fill in the blank)if i wanted to" comments generally point to an uncertainty of specialty choice.
i am pretty happy in my surgical residency. but some days i wonder what if... it's human. but the truth is, i could never see myself being anything other than a surgeon. and hopefully, every other resident in every other field feels the same way about theirc choices of specialties.
to all my sdn peeps reading this... just pick your poison (thoughtfully and for your own reasons) and then go for it full-force.
good luck.
The question remains: Why is a radiology resident like you trolling on the surgery forum?Whisker Barrel Cortex said:Seriously, you need to get over yourself. I have no reason to explain why I didn't do surgery, I just didn't want to do it. Period. Maybe you didn't understand that statement. I'll repeat it. Just as you didn't want to be a radiologist, I didn't want to be surgeon. Its pretty easy to understand, if you can see past your frickin ego.
By the way, most of the "should've" comments come from surgery regarding radiology or anesthesiology, not the other way around.
That alone speaks volumes.
Is it regret?
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Last time I checked, this is forum is not hosted in North Korea or Cuba. WBC, I, an FP, or any random person from the general public can go any thread, read and post if we want.Bo Hurley said:
I am also a radiology resident. I browse the surgery forums, not out of a sense-of-regret for not having chosen surgery, but because I find surgery a fascinating field (not nearly as fascinating as radiology, though
).
Very true and well said. This "must suffer and excel" attitude is responsible for probably 1/2 of the most irritating, malignant threads on SDN.Celiac Plexus said:
No regrets here. I actually visit many of the subspecialty forums just out of interest (maybe I have too much free time). In radiology, we see the imaging for every field out there, so each field interests me to some extent. My post had nothing to do with "trolling," just trying to correct a misconception by one of the posters here. Maybe I have to repeat this one more time for you to understand what I am saying. I respect general surgeons and what they do. I liked radiology a lot more than surgery and chose that as my field. Not because I wanted to be a surgeon and couldn't do it. Now how hard of statement is that to understand?Bo Hurley said:
Of course there are those that choose a field and then realize that they should've chosen something else. I have seen several surgery residents switch (a couple to anesthesia, one to ER, one to psych
, one to radiology). There are also a couple radiology residents I know who are disillusioned and with they had done surgery or another patient care specialty. It happens.
This is nuts. I think surgery is one of the most boring endeavors a person could possibly devote their life to... it only gets exciting when the sh1t hits the fan, something every surgeon desperately tries to avoid. If for some bizarre reason I was forced to become a surgeon, my primary issue would be trying not to fall asleep while performing my 5,000th cholecystectomy. Even "cool" procedures become monotonous with repetition, a fact I absorbed while watching my third multi-multi-hour-long Whipple.Bo Hurley said:
(No offense to surgeons. Thank god somebody out there finds it fascinating, come time for my cholecystectomy.)