Is the Ivy League worth it?

[edkahn]

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When I graduate, I will probably have a science GPA of 3.1/3.3. I don't want to go around demeaning schools, but I go to an Ivy League School (Cornell). Classes here are very competitive and it is very difficult to get even an A- in a science class. Do admissiosn commitees know how hard this school is? Most of my friends tell me that even with a science GPA as low as mine, it is still OK because my school's name pulls a lot of weight. Does anyone know how true this is?

Also, I managed to talk my way into having the Dean of my school be my advisor. She is very supportive of my application to Dental School, and said she looks forward to writing my rec. Does the status of the recommendor count?

 

[shootin4par]

Edkahn,

A lot of students wonder whether coming from a top tier school gives them an advantage due to the status and prestige of their school. To be honest, it does and it doesn't. Many students I have known have gone to top schools like Cornell, Duke, Emory etc and then transferred to state schools and realized that their GPA was lower at the state school. I'm not putting down private schools, but talk to anyone who attends a major state school and they will tell you competition is there as well.....
Now when the admissions committees see your GPA they will see where you excelled and where you stumbled. Your GPA is solid either way, but the leveling factor is the DAT. If you have a 3.1/3.2 and score 25/25 then obviously it'll show the ad-com that you were genuinely challenged in undergrad.......but then sometimes people just really excel on the DAT to make for their GPA. It's not an exact science, unfortunately.

As for the letter of rec. So long as it is coming from a creditable source who knows you well as both a student and person, and can write about you in a manner that doesn't just say "Ed got an A in my class, which illustrates that s/he can successfully study and perform well.." That doesn't say anything about you. I had some high profile people at my university write letters for me, but they knew me personally from my different activities. If the dean is just an advisor who likes you, it really doesn't carry much weight, UNLESS the dean can make you look like GOLD (or if the dean is an amazing BS artist...).

Hope that helps, its not an exact science but this is probably the most realistic view on the matter.......🙄

 

[edkahn]

I assume the Dean knows me pretty well. I am one of the only student she advices, and she asked me to be her advisee. She used to sit on the ADCOM for Albert Einstein Med School, so I would hope she can write a good rec😀
If schools ask for letters from 3 science profs or from one health committee , would it be a good idea to get 3 science profs, and then have her send her letter? If my school uses an pre-health committe, does that mean all the profs don't need to be science profs. Thanks.

 

[marshall]

i also go to cornell and will be applying to dental school with a not so perfect GPA (haven't figured out what it is yet...). the quality of your institution matters significantly and some schools will directly linearly scale your GPA accordingly . i have heard from some medical schools that this can be as much as .3 Other schools make no formulaic stand on this issue but say that it will hold weight in their decision. ultimately performance trends for low GPAs and solid DATs are what get you in.

on a personal recommendation to a fellow cornellian, go to the career services center in barnes hall and look through the binders of health careers surveys returned by matriculating dental students. the students that returned them complete give you a valuable resource because they basically tell you everything about them and where they applied/got accepted. less helpful kids at least put their gpa dat and where they got in. that is by *far* your most valuable resource for figuring out how you figure in. hearsay from people is basically useless ( no offense) when compared with actual people with actual numbers and actual acceptances. also, you're kidding yourself about it being very difficult to get an A- in a 'science' class. take a look at the median grade reports for the past four semesters and you will see that even in orgo 357/358 the median grade is like a B or B+. 300+ courses almost *always* have a B+ median grade. only really low level requisite courses like chem 207/208 might dip into B-/B range. don't get me wrong, i got nailed too and felt sorry for myself and claimed that its too competitive but it really is bull****. i got a 3.7 with 20 credits last semester by busting my ass. that's what you will have to do too especially if you want to succeed in dental school. hope that helps!

best regards,
marshall

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

"I went to an Ivy League School. Does that increase my chances of being accepted? It is far more important how you did in your studies than where you went to school. Attending a well-known, big-name school does not confer any significant advantage."

Heres the web page:

http://www.miami.edu/UMH/CDA/UMH_Main/0,1770,2600-1;14190-2;17563-3,00.html

I know thats for a medical school, but I'm sure it applies to dental school also.

 

[UBTom]

Maybe it's individual experience, maybe it's the times, maybe it's the schools one applies to, but in my experience, my Ivy League undergrad diploma didn't mean squat when I applied to dental school back in 1996.

I graduated Columbia University with a 3.1 overall and science GPA, and I couldn't get into any dental schools in 1996 on my first attempt, despite a very respectable 21 DAT/24 PAT. It was only after I maintained a 4.0 GPA in an M.S. degree in Biology at a less prestigious university that I got into dental school.

The school name might matter yes, but definitely nowhere near a decisive factor that's fer sure..

 

[StarGirl]

i wouldn't worry about it, i think there's just no telling if you'll get in or not unless you apply! I had a 3.1 and I had schools to choose from...I know people w/ lower scores and gpa and got into ucla and ucsf... just apply...and make the most of the rest of the application...show them how you stand out amongst the other 8000 people!

 

[mcataz]

Yes and No. If you are applying to medical and dental schools, it doesn't matter. I think the only time the Ivy League schools provide you with an advantage is when you apply to law schools and when you are applying for your first job out of college. For example, investment banks and high paying consulting firms only recruit out of the Ivy's and a few other schools.

But for the most part, an admissions person isn't going to provide you with leniency because you attended Cornell. Sad but true. My sister attended an Ivy and finished with 3.6 GPA. She got into her state medical and got rejected from every other private medical school she applied to because her MCAT was only a 30.

I agree with your assessment though. I think getting A's at Ivy League schools is very difficult with a few exceptions of course (Stanford and Brown). But in general, the competiton is fierce and professors don't enjoy giving A's.

If my kid wanted to attend either medical or dental school, I would tell him to attend his state school because his chances would be better unless he or she could attend Brown or Stanford.

I think the only time having Ivy credential could help you is if one of the admissions committee members is an Ivy league alum. In that case, the alum would probably give you the benefit of the doubt. But that would be rare considering the admissions committee is comprised of members that attended many types of schools.

 

[emporio]

correction... stanford is not an ivy school.

 

[savvysearch]

Do schools even pay attention to GPA? I just have a sneaking feeling that they look more at the science-GPA, and your science GPA at 3.3 is is nothing to worry about.

 

[mcataz]

Originally posted by emporio
correction... stanford is not an ivy school.

And neither is MIT, Duke and the University of Chicago, all which were ranked higher than many of the traditional Ivy League schools including the likes of Brown, Cornell and Penn according to U.S. News and World Report which is the source behind the rankings in the first place. I don't know what the rankings are this year but all three of those "non-Ivy" schools have been in the top 5 at some point in time.

So instead of using a long term like "top ranked schools", people casually refer to the top univesities as Ivy's since most of the schools in the top ten hail from the Ivy League athletic conference.

Needless to say, I don't think anyone would view Stanford as taking a backseat to any Ivy League school.

 

[emporio]

just stating the FACT that stanford is not an ivy... that's all.
doesn't matter if mit, stan., uofchicago are top. not ivy.
sorry if u took it the wrong way. wasn't trying to insult you.

 

[mcataz]

I wasn't insulted. You were right. Technically it's not an Ivy. I wasn't concerned with the semantics. I was just trying to make a point in order to answer the original poster's question. I think someone from Duke with a 3.1 GPA could make the same case as the OP even though Duke isn't technically an "Ivy" league school. Technically, the Ivy League refers to a conference and location of schools like the ACC, Big 12 etc.

Cool

 

[mcataz]

Originally posted by savvysearch
Do schools even pay attention to GPA? I just have a sneaking feeling that they look more at the science-GPA, and your science GPA at 3.3 is is nothing to worry about.

They look at all sorts of factors

1. Trend in grades
2. Performance in difficult courses
3. College Major- 3.1 in Engineering is seen in a better light than a 3.1 in Sociology.
4. School attended

Generally speaking, they look at the science GPA more closely than the overall because one's science GPA includes the most difficult classes he or she has taken.

 

[StarGirl]

LOR... stop worrying about the school you go to and your GPA and go get some really awsome LORs... having someone BIG write you a GREAT letter CAN and WILL go a long way 🙂
*i can almost swear that's the only reason why I got into any schools...