Is the sky the limit on Tution for dental schools: Both Public and Private

[3rdMolarRoller]

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Here is the sad truth about medicine and dentistry. The tution we are paying now will be nothing in relative terms compared to tution students will pay 10 years from now. Just one example.

Nova Tution 2001: ~28,000
Nova Tution 2006: ~37,000

NYU Tution 2001: ~38,000
NYU Tution 2006: ~46,000

As you can see it only took Nova 5 years to catch up to NYU's old tution and back then people were saying you are crazy to pay $38,000 a year for school. Today $38,000 a year for a private school isn't so bad. Yeah, we can get into adjusment for inflation and the power of a dollar, but in the last 5 years costs overall have not risen much/ loss of the value of a dollar.

Public schools are going the same way. Look at how much the cost has risen in Ca and other states. When I was applying to UF in 2002/03 the cost of attendance with living was $120k now it is $149k only 3 years later. The students at this school in the next 2 years will have to pull private loans (such as I) to supplement their education. And May I remind you UFCD is a state school!

Point of my story is that I'm not trying to downplay this huge amount of debt, but unless something happens, future students are going to have it way worse than we do. Can you imagine paying $200k+ for a public school and $400k for private. In my opinion, this situation is not very far away...maybe the next 10 years.

In the end its the public that will suffer with our higher fees across the board. There are not very many (although there are a few) state schools that are a steal!

Not sure what could be done to remedy the situation 🙁

 

[TKD]

Here is the sad truth about medicine and dentistry. The tution we are paying now will be nothing in relative terms compared to tution students will pay 10 years from now. Just one example.

Nova Tution 2001: ~28,000
Nova Tution 2006: ~37,000

NYU Tution 2001: ~38,000
NYU Tution 2006: ~46,000

As you can see it only took Nova 5 years to catch up to NYU's old tution and back then people were saying you are crazy to pay $38,000 a year for school. Today $38,000 a year for a private school isn't so bad. Yeah, we can get into adjusment for inflation and the power of a dollar, but in the last 5 years costs overall have not risen much/ loss of the value of a dollar.

Public schools are going the same way. Look at how much the cost has risen in Ca and other states. When I was applying to UF in 2002/03 the cost of attendance with living was $120k now it is $149k only 3 years later. The students at this school in the next 2 years will have to pull private loans (such as I) to supplement their education. And May I remind you UFCD is a state school!

Point of my story is that I'm not trying to downplay this huge amount of debt, but unless something happens, future students are going to have it way worse than we do. Can you imagine paying $200k+ for a public school and $400k for private. In my opinion, this situation is not very far away...maybe the next 10 years.

In the end its the public that will suffer with our higher fees across the board. There are not very many (although there are a few) state schools that are a steal!

Not sure what could be done to remedy the situation 🙁

And let's not forget a pending faculty shortage.
Very sad indeed.
A qualified student should never have to turn away a career due to financial concerns, and future dental students should not be graduating with that kind of debt. Too much stress, and the dollar signs may cloud their vision when it comes to dental treatment. Schools accepting a few extra students per year (therefore a few extra $$$), and then when it comes to giving chair time a year or two later, the bottom few students get the axe.
Some remedies - decreasing basic science faculty by sharing faculty and classes with med students - a good thing in my opinion. Corporate sponsorship - a concern. Distance learning - where a professor may end up teaching at more than 1 school (i.e. Ny, philly boston). Govt investment in education. Let's face it, a graduating dentist contributes hundreds of thousands of dollars back into the community where he/she ends up practicing through taxes, and providing jobs - there was an article in JADA, or AGD with exact #'s. quite a large sum. Interest relief / faculty development programs / committed to working in underserved areas.
I'm an amateur when it comes to this topic - would love to hear some insight and opinions...

 

[gator1210]

I agree with you on the fact that being a dentist is getting more expensive. Probably because dentists are getting more important, they are getting paid more than the past years once they graduate and faculty dentists need a nice salary too. Thats my opinion.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

UFCD numbers you are using is out of state tuition. So its kind of misleading to say its a state school, even though it is. Most people are probably thinking that Florida resident tuition, where you are quoting out of state tuition. Most state schools only use state funded money on residents that why their tuition is cheaper.


However, I agree with you on the fact that being a dentist is getting more expensive. Probably because dentists are getting more important, they are getting paid more than the past years once they graduate and faculty dentists need a nice salary too. Thats my opinion.

No those are in state numbers. Right from their website:

"For 2005-06, the total cost of attendance (rent, meals, clothing, transportation, tuition, textbooks, instruments, computer, etc.) for the University of Florida College of Dentistry DMD program is just over $37,200/year for residents of the state of Florida"

https://www.dental.ufl.edu/offices/admissions/DMD/Financial_aid_costs.html

 

[gator1210]

Sorry about that, I realized that afterwards.

 

[Mustt Mustt]

This is just going crazy year after year. Many Public schools like Michigan are hitting at 184K total over four years(including food etc) for instate. Most public schools are going around 170K now. Privates and out of state tuitions are ridiculous. This is all burden on pateints becasue that is the only income source dental students will have to pay all these damn loans back. I thougght I will be in bad position for 184K but I know many are in worse position than I am in.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

Do you know what sucks for you, entering students that think they will pay $184k really don't. Every year the cost goes up until you graduate. So you might be looking at near $200k on graduation day 2010.

Actually Mustt, add another $5k or more for accrued interest during school and you are an offical member of the $200k club!

My original estimate for NYU was $210k...it just keeps going higher and higher year after year :-( I have a feeling its going to break $230k :-(

Its a vicious cycle.

 

[jpollei]

My grandpa said his tuition bill in dental school was something like $415 a semester...how would that be! (Given it was a few decades back.)

 

[beredsox2]

Just think, some of us don't even have a public school. Being a Bostonian allows me to only get a mild discount at UConn. All those that have the opportunity for instate tuition should consider themselves very lucky.

 

[Rube]

In the end its the public that will suffer with our higher fees across the board. There are not very many (although there are a few) state schools that are a steal!

Not sure what could be done to remedy the situation 🙁

I wish it were that simple. In the end, dentistry as a profession will suffer. First off, with a lower return on investment you won't get the best of the best in dentistry. That'll be the first thing to happen. Witness what has happened in medicine. Do you really think the beside manners and personalities of today's MDs are better than those of our parents generation? My opinion is the overall caliber as declined.

The second thing is that as dental fees become too expensive the politicians will get involved and the HMOs. The pressure on the solo practicioner will become enormous.

Unfortunately, there is no easy remedy for this except probably market forces. Hopefully the tuition doesn't rise too fast and hopefully at some point the applicant pool dries up a bit.

 

[DcS]

.....................................

 

[darius99]

Just think, some of us don't even have a public school. Being a Bostonian allows me to only get a mild discount at UConn. All those that have the opportunity for instate tuition should consider themselves very lucky.

i'm in the same boat as u boree, and its crazy to think that all of new england has to use uconn as a "state school" when their class size is only 30-40ish.

as for solutions, i dearly hope that corporate sponsorship does not further infiltrate dental education (or any other field of education either). even though millions of dollars would be pumped in which might improve schools and/or reduce tuition, it's not worth selling ourselves for. corporations wouldnt do it unless they knew there was plenty in it for them, and i don't want my education to be any more biased by corporate sponsorship than it already is.

does the government offer cancelling of student loans in return for service? i know that a portion of undergrad loans can be "erased" in return for a committment to a service organization, such as working on a native american reservation, americore, teaching, etc, so maybe there are opportunities for service work as a dentist in areas lacking access to care.

 

[Rube]

So the 'best of the best' in dentistry are the ones doing it because it has a high return on investment? Because dentistry *might* not be as profitable the best students won't apply? So that means the best students are the ones who enter dentistry because of the money they can make? WTF are you talking about.

The fee levels have little impact on whether or not managed care breaks through into dentistry.

I don't think I've read one post of yours that makes sense.

Your powers of deductive reasoning are amazing. I'm sure some other poster can explain life to you. I certainly won't. Good luck and remember to vote for Hillary.

 

[3rdMolarRoller]

.... and remember to vote for Hillary.

Sorry, this will only make things worse

 

[TKD]

i'm in the same boat as u boree, and its crazy to think that all of new england has to use uconn as a "state school" when their class size is only 30-40ish.

as for solutions, i dearly hope that corporate sponsorship does not further infiltrate dental education (or any other field of education either). even though millions of dollars would be pumped in which might improve schools and/or reduce tuition, it's not worth selling ourselves for. corporations wouldnt do it unless they knew there was plenty in it for them, and i don't want my education to be any more biased by corporate sponsorship than it already is.

does the government offer cancelling of student loans in return for service? i know that a portion of undergrad loans can be "erased" in return for a committment to a service organization, such as working on a native american reservation, americore, teaching, etc, so maybe there are opportunities for service work as a dentist in areas lacking access to care.

YES. Indian Health Service, Federally Qualified Health Centers (rural or inner city dental clinics), faculty/research development programs and several others.

 

[hockeydentist]

Sorry, this will only make things worse

Interesting Hilary got brought up in this forum. On a more serious note, would Hilary have any snowball chance in hell of getting into office in 2008. Would America be willing to vote a woman in office?

 

[beredsox2]

If I felt Hillary had a strong campaign, I would not hesitate to vote for her- even if she is a woman. I am not racist or sexist, and I am also not ignorant, nor am I arrogant. Unfortunately, educated, unbiased people are the minority in this country, and why a woman will never be president.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Just think, some of us don't even have a public school. Being a Bostonian allows me to only get a mild discount at UConn. All those that have the opportunity for instate tuition should consider themselves very lucky.

Sorry dude, I have little sympathy for ya....When I applied to dental schools I was also a Bostonian.....however, when I went to Temple, I moved there and got instate residency.....ill come out of dental school at about 150K in debt with a place to own on top of that.....if people think carefully and into the future and really take their decision of choosing a dental school very seriously, you can do your best to make the best of a supposed bad situation.

 

[DrJeff]

Good luck and remember to vote for Hillary.

Do this and you'll just LOVE what will happen to your tax bill as a future member of the top 1% of all american wage earners 😱 Plus, wait to you see what the democrats will do to all the tax benefits that the republicans have put in place for small business owners. For example in the last few tax years, as a small business owner you can DEDUCT upto 100,000 of your taxable income for business improvements/expenses, and vehicles over 5,000lbs gross vehicle weight count towards this - hence this is why you see ALOT of small business with new Hummers, Escalades and Yukon Denali's infront of them. You can thank the republicans for this. Also, not that we like to think about our own mortality, but if you look at what the republicans want to do with the estate taxes and their reduction, it will enable you to transfer ALOT more money onto your family rather than the government taking roughly 50% of it as a "death tax"

While many of you may have liberal social interests/concerns, as a future small business owner and "wealthy" american, you'll likely at some point become a big fan of a conservative economic policy. 😕

 

[beredsox2]

Sorry dude, I have little sympathy for ya....When I applied to dental schools I was also a Bostonian.....however, when I went to Temple, I moved there and got instate residency.....ill come out of dental school at about 150K in debt with a place to own on top of that.....if people think carefully and into the future and really take their decision of choosing a dental school very seriously, you can do your best to make the best of a supposed bad situation.

Sorry dude, but I'm not looking for your sympathy just stating the fact that those who do have instate schools are really lucky. I'm from Boston but did my undergrad in the midwest, and planned on returning back to Boston for D-school so I only had 3 private schools to choose from. One of which accepts 0 in state students (Harvard had 0 mass residents last year in its class-althought it is possible someone would decline Harvard, I highly doubt it). I'm not saying there aren't ways to get a cheaper education, I'm just saying that I am unable to get a cheap education in my state.

 

[DIRTIE]

Sorry dude, I have little sympathy for ya....When I applied to dental schools I was also a Bostonian.....however, when I went to Temple, I moved there and got instate residency.....ill come out of dental school at about 150K in debt with a place to own on top of that.....if people think carefully and into the future and really take their decision of choosing a dental school very seriously, you can do your best to make the best of a supposed bad situation.

Something doesn't add up, because your tuition and fees alone instate are more than that. What about living?

 

[Mustt Mustt]

Do this and you'll just LOVE what will happen to your tax bill as a future member of the top 1% of all american wage earners 😱 Plus, wait to you see what the democrats will do to all the tax benefits that the republicans have put in place for small business owners. For example in the last few tax years, as a small business owner you can DEDUCT upto 100,000 of your taxable income for business improvements/expenses, and vehicles over 5,000lbs gross vehicle weight count towards this - hence this is why you see ALOT of small business with new Hummers, Escalades and Yukon Denali's infront of them. You can thank the republicans for this. Also, not that we like to think about our own mortality, but if you look at what the republicans want to do with the estate taxes and their reduction, it will enable you to transfer ALOT more money onto your family rather than the government taking roughly 50% of it as a "death tax"

While many of you may have liberal social interests/concerns, as a future small business owner and "wealthy" american, you'll likely at some point become a big fan of a conservative economic policy. 😕

Dr. jeff, I agree with you on the money issue that republicans will benefit Dentists as a small business owners. I think it will be good money wise. But when I will vote for first time in my life in 2008 taxes will be the least of my concerns. I am more open minded person and I tend to not agree with most of the things republicans do or want. Just money benefit is not enough for me vote for republicans. I don't mind paying 50% or more taxes if I am making the income of top 1% among americans. That big vehicle for smalll business was a bad idea by the government becausue most people who bought this big vehicle for business purposes rarely uses them for it. My friend's dad is a dentist and he has hummer and uses mostly for vacations and family trips, the reason why gas prices are going up. Social issues are very important to me and it will be deciding factor in my vote.

 

[Rube]

Do this and you'll just LOVE what will happen to your tax bill as a future member of the top 1% of all american wage earners 😱 Plus, wait to you see what the democrats will do to all the tax benefits that the republicans have put in place for small business owners. For example in the last few tax years, as a small business owner you can DEDUCT upto 100,000 of your taxable income for business improvements/expenses, and vehicles over 5,000lbs gross vehicle weight count towards this - hence this is why you see ALOT of small business with new Hummers, Escalades and Yukon Denali's infront of them. You can thank the republicans for this. Also, not that we like to think about our own mortality, but if you look at what the republicans want to do with the estate taxes and their reduction, it will enable you to transfer ALOT more money onto your family rather than the government taking roughly 50% of it as a "death tax"

While many of you may have liberal social interests/concerns, as a future small business owner and "wealthy" american, you'll likely at some point become a big fan of a conservative economic policy. 😕

Guys! Guys! the hillary comment was a joke! I would never. I didn't even mean to start a political disscussion its just that by that guy's whiney, life isn't fair attitude I instantly pegged him as a big fat l i b.

 

[Rube]

I don't mind paying 50% or more taxes if I am making the income of top 1% among americans..

I think I'm going to barf.

 

[DrJeff]

Dr. jeff, I agree with you on the money issue that republicans will benefit Dentists as a small business owners. I think it will be good money wise. But when I will vote for first time in my life in 2008 taxes will be the least of my concerns. I am more open minded person and I tend to not agree with most of the things republicans do or want. Just money benefit is not enough for me vote for republicans. I don't mind paying 50% or more taxes if I am making the income of top 1% among americans. That big vehicle for smalll business was a bad idea by the government becausue most people who bought this big vehicle for business purposes rarely uses them for it. My friend's dad is a dentist and he has hummer and uses mostly for vacations and family trips, the reason why gas prices are going up. Social issues are very important to me and it will be deciding factor in my vote.

What you typically will see as you progress from student to new dentist to seasoned dentist is a big shift in your thinking about what the government does. You'll see so many abuses of the system if you treat medicaid patients that you'll realzie how broken the system truely is, and then you start to think of how your hard earned tax dollars go to help finance this severely broken system. Then you have a family of your own, and you start to think of how you'd like to keep more of your hard earned money that you've been able to acquire via all the YEARS of hard school work you've done, for your family. Your view on taxes tends to change when your accountant show you what you are paying each year. 😱

Believe me, like I said before I'm a fiscal republican, not a social one, or in my neck of the woods, I'm a "Connecticut Republican" which means I'm pro-choice (IMHO 60 to 70 year old on average, very wealthy men can't possibly fathom the situation that the typical female having to make that choice is in, and therefore shouldn't impose their own views on them), pro-stem cell research, pro-defense, support the decision to goto IRAQ (and the 4 patients in my practice that haved served in either IRAQ and/or Afganistan have they themselves and their families received free care from me both before, during and after their active duty), anti-government censorship of media, believe in lower taxes, and am a proponent of business tax incentives. On the flip side though, Alito getting confirmed while slightly appealing on some levels, generally concerns me.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Sorry dude, but I'm not looking for your sympathy just stating the fact that those who do have instate schools are really lucky. I'm from Boston but did my undergrad in the midwest, and planned on returning back to Boston for D-school so I only had 3 private schools to choose from. One of which accepts 0 in state students (Harvard had 0 mass residents last year in its class-althought it is possible someone would decline Harvard, I highly doubt it). I'm not saying there aren't ways to get a cheaper education, I'm just saying that I am unable to get a cheap education in my state.

fair enough....

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Something doesn't add up, because your tuition and fees alone instate are more than that. What about living?

instate tuition is $29K/yr....instruments are about 2K/yr.......i bought a place here so I dont pay rent.....extra 20K covers my living expenses and having fun....plus Im putting a bit of my own money into it......

my goal is 150K....but I might go up to 155K depending on how well I let myself live over the next 2 years....

anyways Im not here to brag about my situation....but I am here to say that with careful financial planning and getting the ole "reputation of school" BS out of your system, you can really handle dental school well financially and come out in a decent position. GOTO THE CHEAPEST SCHOOL.....

 

[Mustt Mustt]

Believe me, like I said before I'm a fiscal republican, not a social one, or in my neck of the woods, I'm a "Connecticut Republican" which means I'm pro-choice (IMHO 60 to 70 year old on average, very wealthy men can't possibly fathom the situation that the typical female having to make that choice is in, and therefore shouldn't impose their own views on them), pro-stem cell research, pro-defense, support the decision to goto IRAQ (and the 4 patients in my practice that haved served in either IRAQ and/or Afganistan have they themselves and their families received free care from me both before, during and after their active duty), anti-government censorship of media, believe in lower taxes, and am a proponent of business tax incentives. On the flip side though, Alito getting confirmed while slightly appealing on some levels, generally concerns me.

i get what you are trying to say. See the main reason I don't like of republicans is that they want to impose on american people what they believe in and that is what I hate about them. let people make the decisions about certain things in life that most of these politicians have never been in but pretend to know what is the right thing. The thing I hate about Democrats is they are keeping people from getting their life back on track by funding all those BS programs and making taxes go higher and higher. For example, I know this lady who is in her 30's working at a Hotel in Housekeeping has 4 childrens and is not married. Becasue of her kids and all that she gets lots of federal and state enefits for housing, food etc. She made the last kid because she wasn't qualifying for some programs(as she was saying). She lives with a gy but won't get married becasue she will disqualify for some of the programs, this is plain stupid. So moral of my stody is Both REPUBLICANS and DEMOCRATIC politicans are bad guys but we have to decide which is not too bad. Any way lets carry on the discussion about the fee increase.

 

[Mustt Mustt]

I think main reason people are saying these tuition increse is ridiculous becasue they tend to be like 10% now days VS the inflation in the neighborhood of 3.5%. I think if tuitions hike is the same as inflations rate than it wouldn't be this bad but some schools are increasing tuitions by 10-15% a year, now that is ridiculous.

 

[aphistis]

i get what you are trying to say. See the main reason I don't like of republicans is that they want to impose on american people what they believe in and that is what I hate about them. let people make the decisions about certain things in life that most of these politicians have never been in but pretend to know what is the right thing. The thing I hate about Democrats is they are keeping people from getting their life back on track by funding all those BS programs and making taxes go higher and higher. For example, I know this lady who is in her 30's working at a Hotel in Housekeeping has 4 childrens and is not married. Becasue of her kids and all that she gets lots of federal and state enefits for housing, food etc. She made the last kid because she wasn't qualifying for some programs(as she was saying). She lives with a gy but won't get married becasue she will disqualify for some of the programs, this is plain stupid. So moral of my stody is Both REPUBLICANS and DEMOCRATIC politicans are bad guys but we have to decide which is not too bad. Any way lets carry on the discussion about the fee increase.

In this same vein, you might appreciate this story I read tonight: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11009379/

 

[gryffindor]

What you typically will see as you progress from student to new dentist to seasoned dentist is a big shift in your thinking about what the government does. You'll see so many abuses of the system if you treat medicaid patients that you'll realzie how broken the system truely is, and then you start to think of how your hard earned tax dollars go to help finance this severely broken system. Then you have a family of your own, and you start to think of how you'd like to keep more of your hard earned money that you've been able to acquire via all the YEARS of hard school work you've done, for your family. Your view on taxes tends to change when your accountant show you what you are paying each year. 😱.

As a newbie grad, what Dr. Jeff described above is SO TRUE.

The pressure to earn money can be a big influence on treatment planning. If tuition continues to go up at this rate and large numbers of dental grads start defaulting on loan payments 10 - 15 years from now, then maybe the situation will start to change. Don't know if it will be better or worse though.

 

[DcS]

The pressure to earn money can be a big influence on treatment planning.

Unfortunately, dental school is primarily responsible for the way new graduates see patients. It's called requirements. When we look in our patient's mouth, we see an MOD that is worth 12 operative points and a foundation that is worth 6.

When you get to private practice, only one thing changes. The points become $ signs.

Sad but true.

 

[gryffindor]

Unfortunately, dental school is primarily responsible for the way new graduates see patients. It's called requirements. When we look in our patient's mouth, we see an MOD that is worth 12 operative points and a foundation that is worth 6.

When you get to private practice, only one thing changes. The points become $ signs.

Sad but true.

Yeah, I remember requirements. All that calculating of points and hoping all the disciplines would add up and hoping the patient would accept the treatment plan. I used to earn mad points in dental school because I kept myself busy - I would rather do a cleaning than sit around with an empty chair waiting for a crown. I don't find myself overtreatment planning in private practice just to earn more $$$.

I found in private practice it can go both ways. At office #1, they opt to leave alone the smooth little occlusal pit amalgam that has been there for 30 years. At office #2, they are telling you the pit amalgam must be ripped out from the minute you sit in the chair (insert here lecture on the evils of amalgam). And that is just a small example. It hasn't been simple to transition from the "ideal dentistry" approach in dental school to "the cheapest option is to extract and do nothing" in the GPR to "this is what your insurance company covers and we will be sure to max out your benefits" in practice. Sometimes when I am in office #2, I wonder how our future colleagues with gigantic debts will be running their practices when those monthly student loan bills will come due - none of us went into this profession to starve.

FWIW, I've given up on learning new things in clinical dentistry for now mainly b/c I am an associate and don't have a chance to try new things in my jobs. I have been reading instead on practice management, something we got very little of in dental school. Don't get me wrong, we had 3 classes full of practice management, but I find myself flipping through those old notes and laughing at info in there because almost NONE of it ended up applying to me.

 

[esclavo]

reminds me of a funny old saying... "if you're in your twenties and your not a liberal, you don't have a heart.... if you're in your in your forties and not a conservative you don't have a brain..."

The moral of the story is that we start idealistic/altruistic and then when we realize that as we get older all the "ideas/altruism" occurs on our sweat and blood then we become more realistic

 

[OzDDS]

Good luck and remember to vote for Hillary.

Condi would make office before Hellary ever would! 😀

 

[esclavo]

Condi would make office before Hellary ever would! 😀

AMEN!!!! She's 100X more intelligent, and we wouldn't have to worry about her husband trying to touch the young white house interns with his "cigars".