Is there anything wrong with parents pushing their kids into medicine?

[jjoeirv]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Did your parents push you to become a medical doctor? I met a medical doctor at a lab where I aid a PhD in doing research. The medical doctor and I were talking, and he mentioned to me he did not want to become a doctor yet his parents forced him to become one.

I thought to myself there is nothing wrong with parents forcing their kids to pursue such a rewarding path as medicine. Careers outside of medicine have the following undesirable traits:
(1) low pay
(2) racial and age discrimination (in terms of who gets hired)
(3) office politics (especially backstabbing and office gossip)
(4) job insecurity (jobs being sent overseas make this worse)
(5) no social status (MDs are the most respected profession)

Doctors don't get laid off. I have seen the anxiety and frustration of my non-MD friends who were laid off and had to struggle so hard to get a job for which there were 200 applicants for just one position. Some of them have been out of work for more than one year.

 

[SunnyS81]

I find your comments interesting. However, it is wrong. If you are working 80 hrs/wk, the worst thing would be to not enjoy what you are doing. To know that there is something else you would enjoy doing more would be pretty tortuous.

As for your reasons, here are my counters....

(1) low pay

-If I got a job like all my peers (people I consider equal to me....not just any random chump with an engineering degree), I would be making $50k plus bonus. Within a year of graduation, my best friend will be making ~$75k. There is no doubt in our mind that she will easily clear ~$120k by the time I finished a 3 year residency......peds, IM, and ER don't make too much more than that. When I was considering medicine, I realized that by the time I finished residency, I would have otherwise been making $100k, with no debt, working 40-50hrs/wk. From my calculations, I'm behind by $2 million if I did a 4 year residency. Low pay? Right.....


(2) racial and age discrimination (in terms of who gets hired)

Don't know of anyone who with race problems. As for age, yeah that is a factor, but that kicks in when you are 50+. If you saved properly, what's wrong with early retirement?

(3) office politics (especially backstabbing and office gossip)

Ever heard the term "malignant"? If you go into academia or a large group practice, I wouldn't be surprised if this still existed.

(4) job insecurity (jobs being sent overseas make this worse)

Concieded.........remember, though, every risk has an associated monetary value.........medical doctors take little risk except in the case of malpractice.......which is why doctors may make good incomes, but they'll never be in lifestyles of the rich and famous...

(5) no social status (MDs are the most respected profession)

Is it? I know doctors who have been purposefully urinated on......that seems lke a contradiction. I don't think the concept of respect for a profession exists anymore in our society...

 

[HiddenTruth]

I agree with the BENEFITS of medicine but your "numbered benefits list" does not justify WHY it makes it right for parents to push thier kids into medicine--granted, there are pros abt medicine, some of which you listed, but there is more to it than the materialistic list you provided--i.e STATE OF HAPPINESS, HELPING PEOPLE OUT--if you don't have some of those entities in mind, why even do it?.

I am in a 6 yr med program straight out of high school, and here it is very common to see kids that were heavily influenced by thier parents to go into medicine, as no one in thier right state of mind could commit thier career to medicine at the age of 17/18--which is also why you find people becomming doctors for the wrong reasons--now don't get me wrong, there are exception to this rule.

I think a person needs to go to 4 years of college and find out for him/herself whether medicine is something they would like to do for the rest of thier lives.I mean if you want to practice medicine for what it is, then YOU have to make that decision--it's not an easy road. However, a lot of kids in my class, who came here at 17/18 yrs old, obviously did not make that decision on thier own, including myself (Though I had a lot of options, and was entirely upto me at the end--but not to say that my parents didnt have a say/input). Also lots of times, you see that these are the kids who have succefull parents as doctors, and so their decision is heavily influenced by family background). I am not saying parents should not have any input or no say, but I think it should be left upto the kid to explore all the fields and see what is right for them. There are many cases of extreme situations at my school, where kids were literally forced to sign the acceptance letter--what good is that, these kdis are suffering at a rigorous program and don't like it--not to say $30 grand of tution down the drain if you flunk or leave--whcih isn't hard in the beginning (lost a half of my class in the first yr and a half--whcih is pretty much undergrad anyways..but that shows the peripheral matters that come into play). Anyways those are my two cents, and maybe they're biased based on my school istuation where I see a lot of this.

 

[Stinger86]

Originally posted by jjoeirv
I thought to myself there is nothing wrong with parents forcing their kids to pursue such a rewarding path as medicine.

In a sorta twisted way, that's kinda like saying there is nothing wrong with a doctor forcing his patient to undergo a treatment or regimen whether the patient wants to or not. It's just plain wrong on several levels.

Anyway, I can't imagine a person being forced into medicine by their parents. Sure, I know it happens all the time but... medicine is one of the those fields that you REALLY have to enjoy in order to be happy. It takes a ton of patience and commitment, as well as investment. I would imagine that it would really wear down a person who didn't enjoy working in medicine.

Heck, I made my own decision to pursue medicine and so far, there is only a small handful of specialties I would consider doing for the rest of my life. And I mean SMALL. Medicine is not what it's cracked up to be, and I had to really research and question personnel in various medical fields to sort of narrow down what I would enjoy doing for the next 50 years. I firmly believe that a person forced into medicine by his/her parents will be extremely unhappy unless somehow by coincidence they turn out to find a specialty that's enjoyable to him/her. But I bet that honestly doesn't happen too often.

 

[IlianaSedai]

I can think of a number of cultures in which it is "appropriate" for parents to "encourage" their children to study specific subjects. Medicine is the most obvious choice; the cultures I can think of (there are probably others) include Arab, Indian and East Asian....

Trouble is, when you "transplant" that into an American context, the importance of material stability runs smack against the importance of personal choice and individuality.

End result? It is possible your children may resent you for life. 🙁

 

[uclacrewdude]

Originally posted by jjoeirv
Did your parents push you to become a medical doctor? I met a medical doctor at a lab where I aid a PhD in doing research. The medical doctor and I were talking, and he mentioned to me he did not want to become a doctor yet his parents forced him to become one.

I thought to myself there is nothing wrong with parents forcing their kids to pursue such a rewarding path as medicine. Careers outside of medicine have the following undesirable traits:
(1) low pay
(2) racial and age discrimination (in terms of who gets hired)
(3) office politics (especially backstabbing and office gossip)
(4) job insecurity (jobs being sent overseas make this worse)
(5) no social status (MDs are the most respected profession)

Doctors don't get laid off. I have seen the anxiety and frustration of my non-MD friends who were laid off and had to struggle so hard to get a job for which there were 200 applicants for just one position. Some of them have been out of work for more than one year.

yet another self-masturbatory thread about how much better it is to be a doctor rather than any other type of profession. the reason i would say such parents would be terrible parents is b/c of all the reasons to go into medicine you omitted the most important one: personal interest in medicine. prodding a child to do something for a living s/he ultimately will never like is like a jail sentence, for that person would consider medicine hard labor. the number one reason anyone should do anything is b/c they want to.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by uclacrewdude
yet another self-masturbatory thread about how much better it is to be a doctor rather than any other type of profession. the reason i would say such parents would be terrible parents is b/c of all the reasons to go into medicine you omitted the most important one: personal interest in medicine. prodding a child to do something for a living s/he ultimately will never like is like a jail sentence, for that person would consider medicine hard labor. the number one reason anyone should do anything is b/c they want to.

 

[Been there]

What are you smoking?



"I thought to myself there is nothing wrong with parents forcing their kids to pursue such a rewarding path as medicine. Careers outside of medicine have the following undesirable traits:"

(1) low pay

That is right. As I can recall. USAToday listed doctors as one of the most underpaid profession. While most medical student packed on that >$200K debt for medical school, their college friends are buying houses with swimming pools and going on vacations every year. Some of Us put in lenghty residency, and the debt just keep on growing. Money should never be factored into any reason for going into medicine; because, you will come up short every time.

(2) racial and age discrimination (in terms of who gets hired)

How would you know? This occurs in every facets of our society. So, don't be naive.

(3) office politics (especially backstabbing and office gossip)

Medicine is all about politics. Who is going to be partner? who is going to promoted to full professor. The politic is so bad at most academic places that many of my friends are heading to private practice.

(4) job insecurity (jobs being sent overseas make this worse)

Every heard of out-sourcing. Just ask some radiologist. Some of their jobs are being sent to India (last time, I check that is overseas)

(5) no social status (MDs are the most respected profession)

Social status? Nobody will care if you are an MD. For the first decade as a MD, you will be yelled at by nurses, other attendings, hospital officals, your patients, and your boss.


The only reason anybody should go into medicine is:

They absolutely love it and will not feel fullfilled unless they are in medicine. This is the only way to justified giving up a decade to train for it, the finanical debt of medical school, and the lifestyle adjustment that your family has to indured (otherwise is striaght to divore-ville).

So, put down the joint and get some oxygen to clear your mind

 

[uclacrewdude]

Originally posted by Been there
What are you smoking?



"I thought to myself there is nothing wrong with parents forcing their kids to pursue such a rewarding path as medicine. Careers outside of medicine have the following undesirable traits:"

(1) low pay

That is right. As I can recall. USAToday listed doctors as one of the most underpaid profession. While most medical student packed on that >$200K debt for medical school, their college friends are buying houses with swimming pools and going on vacations every year. Some of Us put in lenghty residency, and the debt just keep on growing. Money should never be factored into any reason for going into medicine; because, you will come up short every time.

(2) racial and age discrimination (in terms of who gets hired)

How would you know? This occurs in every facets of our society. So, don't be naive.

(3) office politics (especially backstabbing and office gossip)

Medicine is all about politics. Who is going to be partner? who is going to promoted to full professor. The politic is so bad at most academic places that many of my friends are heading to private practice.

(4) job insecurity (jobs being sent overseas make this worse)

Every heard of out-sourcing. Just ask some radiologist. Some of their jobs are being sent to India (last time, I check that is overseas)

(5) no social status (MDs are the most respected profession)

Social status? Nobody will care if you are an MD. For the first decade as a MD, you will be yelled at by nurses, other attendings, hospital officals, your patients, and your boss.


The only reason anybody should go into medicine is:

They absolutely love it and will not feel fullfilled unless they are in medicine. This is the only way to justified giving up a decade to train for it, the finanical debt of medical school, and the lifestyle adjustment that your family has to indured (otherwise is striaght to divore-ville).

So, put down the joint and get some oxygen to clear your mind

unless you are toking O2, in which case switch for a J to help you come down.

 

[gioia]

If you help your offspring find themselves, then you have done your job.

 

[Goober]

Originally posted by jjoeirv
Did your parents push you to become a medical doctor? I met a medical doctor at a lab where I aid a PhD in doing research. The medical doctor and I were talking, and he mentioned to me he did not want to become a doctor yet his parents forced him to become one.

I thought to myself there is nothing wrong with parents forcing their kids to pursue such a rewarding path as medicine. Careers outside of medicine have the following undesirable traits:
(1) low pay
(2) racial and age discrimination (in terms of who gets hired)
(3) office politics (especially backstabbing and office gossip)
(4) job insecurity (jobs being sent overseas make this worse)
(5) no social status (MDs are the most respected profession)

Doctors don't get laid off. I have seen the anxiety and frustration of my non-MD friends who were laid off and had to struggle so hard to get a job for which there were 200 applicants for just one position. Some of them have been out of work for more than one year.

1. Low pay- relative to how many hours you have to work and how much the average debt you will incure, the pay is not as great as you many think.

2. Racial and age discrimination- definitely does occur in medicine.

3. Office Politics- Are you kidding me? Unless you are working as a solo practioner politics are a huge part of most hospital and group practices.

4. Job security- Well probably true, but you may find that you will not be able to choose where you want to live. I know many docs who really wanted to live in certain popular cities and can't because finding a job there is near impossible.

5. Social Status- I avoid telling people I am a doc unless I absolutely have to (not kidding)

 

[ayndim]

I can't imagine my children doing anything they don't want to 😉 My daughter is very tenacious (sp?). She is only 4. She does want to be a dr, for now. She is also very intelligent. She can read, add, identify slides under her microscope (not a kids one) and is better at anatomy than I am. Yes I am a proud and bragging mama. And I make sure my kids know how smart I think they are. I see science in her. Especially biology and medicine. I will never force her to become anything but I will encourage her and make sure she has everything that helps her along.

On the other hand my 2 year old will probably become an engineer (or ball player of some sort because he already has perfect aim when throwing or kicking a ball and can catch pretty good too). He has what a think is an amazing ability to look at a puzzle piece and know right where it goes and which way. He can also name his colors and count to 10 despite a hearing problem. He has middle ear congestion but no fluid and the drs say he will outgrow it but for now its speech therapy.

Not sure what my 5 month old will be. But he is very cute and intelligent. I know this already. I am his mom after all.

So I think there is a difference in encouraging and forcing someone to do something. I would feel like a failure as a parent if my kids were not able to tell me they didn't want to do something. Or if they allowed someone to bully them into doing something, although I hope I would never do that.

My mom wanted me to do business (I was an accountant but didn't do my degree in that) or be a nurse. Accounting did well for me and allowed me to travel but now I will follow my dream of being an OB.

 

[dakotaman]

You know, I get the feeling that the medical field lends itself to complainers. There's constant bashing of it as if people expect it to be perfect. It isn't. No field is. I suppose intelligent people enjoy complaining, and since I'm just a lowly first year I'm sure I'll get to that point in the future.

From the getgo I've had my doubts about medicine, but I've also realized how many people are suffering out there with very low paying, junky jobs. Being a physician offers a lifelong career, good pay, (some) autonomy, respect, and the ability to use one's mind for something important. Perfect? Not even close. Worthwhile? Yes.

If you don't like the field, retrain yourself to be a lawyer or something. Shouldn't take nearly as long as medical training. 😉

 

[Trismegistus4]

Originally posted by dakotaman
You know, I get the feeling that the medical field lends itself to complainers. There's constant bashing of it as if people expect it to be perfect. It isn't. No field is. I suppose intelligent people enjoy complaining, and since I'm just a lowly first year I'm sure I'll get to that point in the future.

From the getgo I've had my doubts about medicine, but I've also realized how many people are suffering out there with very low paying, junky jobs. Being a physician offers a lifelong career, good pay, (some) autonomy, respect, and the ability to use one's mind for something important. Perfect? Not even close. Worthwhile? Yes.

If you don't like the field, retrain yourself to be a lawyer or something. Shouldn't take nearly as long as medical training. 😉

I agree. I don't want to raise hackles, but I sometimes wonder whether the biggest complainers are the from-high-school-straight-to-college-straight-to-med-school people. Never having had a full-time job other than temporary summer work, and never having had to manage a household, pay their own bills, etc., they don't know that 75% of their headaches are due just to having a professional-level job in general, not to medicine in particular.

What I find especially amusing are these posts that say "I'm questioning my decision to become a doctor and endure living on loans as a med student followed by years of torture as a resident, while my college buddies all got jobs making $100k/year right out of college and now by age 28 they all own houses in the Virgin islands and Porches and take 6 week vacations." Um, I don't know where you met these friends, but that is NOT the "average joe" lifestyle. I'm 27 and in a Dilbert-like job making what most people would consider good money (nowhere near 100k, of course), and I still live in an apartment, comfortable but with no luxuries to speak of. Even with a substantial down payment, buying a house in my area would cut into my monthly budget even more than my rent payment does. I'd rather not become a doctor until I'm almost 40, making huge payments on $200k of debt but finally enjoying my work, than I would continue to endure 40 hours a week of boring, mind-numbing, unfulfilling cubicle work just so I can have a plasma TV to plop down in front of when I go home.

Oh, and to answer the OP: it's wrong for parents to push their kids into any field. They can make suggestions, but they should never attempt to force their kids, nor DIScourage them from pursuing their dreams. I'm a victim of the latter (wanted to be a writer, Dad made me feel foolish for doing so) and it still haunts me.

 

[Been there]

Originally posted by Trismegistus4
I agree. I don't want to raise hackles, but I sometimes wonder whether the biggest complainers are the from-high-school-straight-to-college-straight-to-med-school people. Never having had a full-time job other than temporary summer work, and never having had to manage a household, pay their own bills, etc., they don't know that 75% of their headaches are due just to having a professional-level job in general, not to medicine in particular.

What I find especially amusing are these posts that say "I'm questioning my decision to become a doctor and endure living on loans as a med student followed by years of torture as a resident, while my college buddies all got jobs making $100k/year right out of college and now by age 28 they all own houses in the Virgin islands and Porches and take 6 week vacations." Um, I don't know where you met these friends, but that is NOT the "average joe" lifestyle. I'm 27 and in a Dilbert-like job making what most people would consider good money (nowhere near 100k, of course), and I still live in an apartment, comfortable but with no luxuries to speak of. Even with a substantial down payment, buying a house in my area would cut into my monthly budget even more than my rent payment does. I'd rather not become a doctor until I'm almost 40, making huge payments on $200k of debt but finally enjoying my work, than I would continue to endure 40 hours a week of boring, mind-numbing, unfulfilling cubicle work just so I can have a plasma TV to plop down in front of when I go home.

Most of us are trying to point of the flaws of the OP arguement and not complaining.

The problem is "average Joe". Who is the average Joe are you referring to? Most medical student and/or medical doctor tends to have friend that are also successful. These successful friends are our "average joe". They are not pumping gas with their college degrees (not that there is anything wrong with pumping gas). Most of us did not go into medicine for the money, we mearly bring up the fact because the OP used it as a supporting arguement. So, don't try to read to much into our reply. They are use to prove flaws in the original arguement.

 

[Trismegistus4]

Originally posted by Been there
Most of us are trying to point of the flaws of the OP arguement and not complaining.

The problem is "average Joe". Who is the average Joe are you referring to? Most medical student and/or medical doctor tends to have friend that are also successful. These successful friends are our "average joe". They are not pumping gas with their college degrees (not that there is anything wrong with pumping gas). Most of us did not go into medicine for the money, we mearly bring up the fact because the OP used it as a supporting arguement. So, don't try to read to much into our reply. They are use to prove flaws in the original arguement.

Well, the point I was trying to make was that at least from my own point of view, making $100k while still in one's twenties is extremely rare. Maybe it's the fact that I'm just a lowly carpenter's son, but the thought of attaining a six-figure annual income before one's thirtieth birthday just blows my mind. I can't imagine what these twentysomethings are doing to make that much money, unless they're living in areas like SF where high housing costs force employers to offer higher pay (in which case their income advantage is offset by high living expenses), or they're extremely ambitious types who LOVE busting their butts in the business world and have worked very hard to climb the ladder at an accelerated pace.

IF that's the case, it kind of vindicates the OP's point in my mind, if in a roundabout way. Because in that case 1) They're probably working as hard as doctors, which invalidates the "they have it easier" argument, and 2) They're the cream of the cream; very few people can attain the success they've attained even by trying very hard. While it would be wrong to go into medicine just for the money, one point that's often overlooked when someone raises the money argument is that medicine is one of the few (perhaps the only? I can't think of any other) fields where one is virtually GUARANTEED a six-figure income. I'm sure Hillary will soon put a stop to that, but in the meantime, you have to remember that for every high-earning lawyer or MBA you know, there are 10 that make $50k. It's quite possible to go to business school or law school, and simply not be able to land a high-paying job, or have no luck climbing the ladder. That concern is virtually non-existent in medicine AFAIK.