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[deleted935284]

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[Astharia]

You're right, it would just add to the laundry list of other things to worry about I just wished he cared more to have written me a more thoughtful letter, but it is what it is.

I assume most just get skimmed over for red flags anyway, which it sounds like none were present.

I could be wrong of course.

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[Astharia]

@Goro probably knows

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[Goro]

My letter writer (an MD I scribed for almost 2 years) just sent me a copy of the letter he submitted and the letter has already been received by AMCAS. I provided him with the AAMC guidelines to be safe although he probably knows how to write a letter, and we really enjoy working together and I thought he'd write me a good one. Well I read it and he basically ignored all the guidelines and I'm pretty disappointed about the letter...

Without going into detail, these are some of the things he left out: how long he has known me (!!!), any tangible accomplishments or anecdotes (we've had a lot....), or any unique traits that make me stand out to be a strong applicant (he always says my charting stands out over the other scribes and praises me a lot). He doesn't say anything bad, but it just has this really superficial vibe with a bunch of empty praise. I don't want to come across as ungrateful, but I was really hoping for a more thoughtful, personal letter given our close relationship. I can't recall anything bad I've done to warrant a cautious letter

To adcoms: How do you view letters like this? My biggest concern is really the fact he doesn't indicate how well he knows me. Do letters like these hurt more than help?

Nearly all clinician LORs are fluff. It does sound like he's damning you by faint praise though. This is NOT good.


I've seen LORs from docs who had a student shadow them for a day. That he knew you ro two years or two day is besides the point here.

Really? I thought LORs were considered highly important for IIs and decisions to accept/reject post-interview. Then again I could also be wrong.

In general, if all the LORs are absolutely glowing, we tend to note htis and mention it in Adcom meeting.
Bad LOrs are always mentioned.

Pray tell, OP, why did you submit a clinical LOR? MD schools really don't care about them, but DO schools require them...but we like DO LORs more.

 

[LizzyM]

Letters are low yield in that they rarely change anything but when they are bad they are very influential. It is very, very rare to get a letter than is bad. (e.g. student was in lab, kept to himself, was easily discouraged, didn't take constructive criticism from lab director, not dependable, etc) It is rather rare to get a letter that is so good that it pushes someone over the top but those happen too... Sometimes, those letters tell a story that the applicant was too reticent to tell and that put record in perspective. (e.g. student's only parent died in car crash after dropping student at college)

 

[gyngyn]

How do you view letters like this? My biggest concern is really the fact he doesn't indicate how well he knows me. Do letters like these hurt more than help?

This type of physician letter is universal.
They are all fluff. We still have to read them...

 

[Astharia]

This type of physician letter is universal.
They are all fluff. We still have to read them...

I expect mine to be pretty similar if it makes you feel better OP. And I've known my DO letter writer for 10 years and have shaddowed her a bit. She did warn me that she wasn't that great at writing them, but since she knew me it would be easier. I assume that's standard. My PIs have very different letters I'm sure, since they're both adcoms and read a ton of them.

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[gyngyn]

How damning could this potentially be? Surely it can't be as bad as putting something blatantly negative on a letter?

My reasoning was this physician seemed like he knew me well, and he would be able to speak from a physician's perspective on traits that would allow me to be successful in a medical career. I had no idea clinician letters were mainly fluff and would end up being a bad decision/backfiring.

After reading these things for decades, I have come to the conclusion that physicians are congenitally incapable of anything but a fluff letter. It's not even their fault.
After all, we see ourselves in the candidate. We project our best wishes for them instead of describing them and supporting our conclusions with evidence.

We're used to it. Ho hum, another clinician letter...

It would only be a "bad" decision if you had a restricted number of letter slots and chose to use this one instead of another, more substantive one.

 

[Goro]

After reading these things for decades, I have come to the conclusion that physicians are congenitally incapable of anything but a fluff letter. It's not even their fault.
After all, we see ourselves in the candidate. We project our best wishes for them instead of describing them and supporting our conclusions with evidence.
We're used to it. Ho hum, another clinician letter...

It would only be a "bad" decision if you had a restricted number of letter slots and chose to use this one instead of another, more substantive one.

I agree with my learned colleague.

And with gonnif...what's done is done.

 

[gyngyn]

Interesting...I always thought docs were some of the best letter writers given how many they needed to become a physician, and also given how many they have likely written for residents as attendings. Guess I was wrong!

No one needs a physician letter to get into MD schools. DO's do like a DO letter, though.
Letters for residency are another matter entirely.

 

[MyOdyssey]

One needs a physician letter to get into MD schools. DO's do like a DO letter, though.
Letters for residency are another matter entirely.

One needs physician letters for MD programs.

Or doesn’t need them for MD programs?

 

[Shammyguy3]

Nearly all clinician LORs are fluff. It does sound like he's damning you by faint praise though. This is NOT good.

In general, if all the LORs are absolutely glowing, we tend to note htis and mention it in Adcom meeting.

I'm assuming this is a positive thing if they are all absolutely glowing, right? As opposed to a cynical mindset of, "Suuuure, these are all great"

 

[gyngyn]

One needs physician letters for MD programs.

Or doesn’t need them for MD programs?

Thanks! I made the clarification. No one needs an MD letter. Even the schools that request a "clinical" letter (AZ, RFU) don't require an Physician letter.
Apparently, some pre-health committees require them (as a way to assure shadowing, I'm told).