Is this a good PCP offer? Tips to negotiate?

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It's typically limited by state law. Over-reaching non-competes are non-enforceable.

True, but if your non-compete is the maximum allowed under state law you're more likely to get a lot of push back compared to something that's reasonable for both parties.

Plus in SC there really isn't any law on the matter, its basically at a judge's discretion as to what is overly restrictive.

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[Keona]

I have no noncompete because the hospital initially paid my salary while on guarantee and I had to agree to stay in the community for x number of years, and I can’t have a noncompete during that period. The hospital would love to employee us instead of having an entirely physician owned group and the ceo offers at every opportunity to employee anyone of us.

 

[Doctorsoon2011]

As other have said, that "salary" figure is only if you hit your production numbers, and that depends on many things. You may not get that many RVUs and you'll make less. Or, you will make that many but you'll feel like its too high of a requirement. There may be a clause that you get penalized if you won't hit your RVU production quota. Look at the fine print. Don't accept any penalties for not hitting your RVU production.

I'm not sure where people are getting 184k from. Remember at that income level, 32% is the tax rate. Once you go on production after 15 months, best case scenario you'll be taking home around 160,000 a year which is around 13,000/month, which sounds like a lot but not after you start paying a mortgage and student loans.

I wouldn't sign any contract with a non-compete clause in it, on principle. It's a completely screwed up practice that institutions use to try and maintain their monopoly in a geographic area.

It's a pretty standard contract and you aren't going to go hungry. It's probably going to be slightly below average pay once you go on production, but there are many things that can make that very acceptable. I'd happily make 160k/year if it means I have time to see my patients and have a low stress work environment, without anybody bugging me to see more patients than I was comfortable, etc. It's not all about money and whether you stay in this job, money may have little to do with it, ultimately.

I hope you dont do your own taxes, this is not how the tax code works. Your tax bracket does not determine your tax for your whole income as you listed. Its progressive. if your student loans are anywhere around average its more then enough money. Certainly worth it if your debt is around your income amount.

If you do not agree, I recommend expanding your financial knowledge through WCI, FIRE, and Dave Ramsey.

 

[Doctorsoon2011]

I hope you dont do your own taxes, this is not how the tax code works. Your tax bracket does not determine your tax for your whole income as you listed. Its progressive. if your student loans are anywhere around average its more then enough money. Certainly worth it if your debt is around your income amount.

If you do not agree, I recommend expanding your financial knowledge through WCI, FIRE, and Dave Ramsey.

Attached is what real numbers with no state tax looks like. Bringing home 160K after maxing out HSA and 401K. Keep morgage low, pay off your loans. then your set, enjoy your comfortable living....

 

[VenusinFurs]

Something around $180K is a pretty typical starting salary for new grads in most parts of the country. You can't expect to be paid as much as established docs as a newb.

I do not think this is the case, even in 2016 when I had my first job I was making 195k as a base and that was considered quite low

 

[deleted87716]

I do not think this is the case, even in 2016 when I had my first job I was making 195k as a base and that was considered quite low

I'm just telling you what I know. I'm sure there are outliers at both extremes.

 

[goldsummer]

Here are some other offers I got just to see how they compare

Location: Rural
Contract length: 5 years
Base: 235,000 guaranteed for 18 months
WRVU conversion factor: 42$ (After guarantee period, if annual bonus target is achieved and the WRVU conversion factor exceeds 70% of cash collections per WRVU, the WRVU conversion factor will be reduced to 70% of the cash collections per WRVU) .... not sure what that means ...
Annual WRVU target: 5,595
non-compete: 30 miles for 1 year
Sign on: 15,000
Call: take your own call or find arrangement amongst other physicians under contract too

--> This one is slightly worse it seems? Annual RVU goal is much higher than other places, contract length is high, lower sign on, etc.... this is a rural area in need of PCP's though, maybe I can negotiate a much better contract?




Location: Big city
Contract length: 3 years
Base: 210,000 Guarantee for first 2 years
RVU: 42
Annual Goal RVU: 4500
Non compete: None!
Sign on: 30k
Relocation: 15,000
Loan repayment: 20k per year for up to 5 years, after that, "retention bonus" of 15,000k/year from each year on
Call schedule: on call for 1 week every 6 weeks... they said as they hire more PCP's this will reduce.

--> This organization seems like they offer the most money and bonuses, but its so big that im sure PCP's are nothing to them, easy to push around, easily replaceable, etc. One previous employee told me they were told to keep seeing more and more patients in 1 day, and they claimed they had bonuses that were never paid out (just one person, not sure if just disgruntled or not)

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

That first one sucks. That RVU conversion based on collections basically means that if the hospital doesn't collect what you bill, they will pay you less. The whole point of using RVUs is that you're supposed to be insulated from collections. Also having to arrange your own call is terrible. I have never seen that in an employed position before.

The second one sounds better. And don't worry about getting pushed around too much. If you were easy to replace, they wouldn't be offering so much sign on, loan repayment, and a yearly retention bonus. You offer those because you have to not out of the goodness of your heart.

Everywhere you work they are going to want you to see more patients, that's how money is made. But you can almost always dictate how many you will see in a day.

 

[goldsummer]

That first one sucks. That RVU conversion based on collections basically means that if the hospital doesn't collect what you bill, they will pay you less. The whole point of using RVUs is that you're supposed to be insulated from collections. Also having to arrange your own call is terrible. I have never seen that in an employed position before.

Oh wow. Thanks for translating that bit for me. They're so sneaky :/ I appreciate your input.