Is this considered abuse or am I just being thin-skinned?

[Dro133]

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Currently on my first core rotation, gen surg, and I think the impression that my team has of me is that I'm dumb. I think it's unfounded -- I'm a pretty quiet guy, and I don't really talk unless I know what I'm talking about, so I don't really shine too much on rounds, especially since it's my first real clinical experience and I'm still trying to find the lay of the land.

Anyways, today my chief asked me a question about a plan for a patient I've been following. I answered correctly, much to his surprise I suppose, and him and one of the interns start talking about how I must have overheard them talking about it earlier because that's the only way I would have gotten the answer right.

Is this considered bullying/abuse? Do they just think I'm dumb? Or are they just expressing surprise because I'm new and got the right answer to their question? Are they just shooting the **** at my expense? I don't hear them talking about the other med student that way (granted, he has one more rotation under his belt than I do and is stronger than me clinically).

Any opinions greatly appreciated.

 

[ERDOC555]

Currently on my first core rotation, gen surg, and I think the impression that my team has of me is that I'm dumb. I think it's unfounded -- I'm a pretty quiet guy, and I don't really talk unless I know what I'm talking about, so I don't really shine too much on rounds, especially since it's my first real clinical experience and I'm still trying to find the lay of the land.

Anyways, today my chief asked me a question about a plan for a patient I've been following. I answered correctly, much to his surprise I suppose, and him and one of the interns start talking about how I must have overheard them talking about it earlier because that's the only way I would have gotten the answer right.

Is this considered bullying/abuse? Do they just think I'm dumb? Or are they just expressing surprise because I'm new and got the right answer to their question? Are they just shooting the **** at my expense? I don't hear them talking about the other med student that way (granted, he has one more rotation under his belt than I do and is stronger than me clinically).

Any opinions greatly appreciated.

Definitely not abuse.

I think they were genuinely surprised that a student who doesn't talk much at all and who they likely didn't have a super high opinion of was able to answer a tough question correctly. I would also be shocked if someone who rarely talked gave me a perfect answer to a question that I thought was hard.

If you keep up answering questions correctly and impressing them, then eventually their perception will change and they'll likely realize that you're quiet and smart. But I can definitely see how they would be surprised based on their misconception of your confidence. Don't take it personally.

 

[Dro133]

Definitely not abuse.

I think they were genuinely surprised that a student who doesn't talk much at all and who they likely didn't have a super high opinion of was able to answer a tough question correctly. I would also be shocked if someone who rarely talked gave me a perfect answer to a question that I thought was hard.

If you keep up answering questions correctly and impressing them, then eventually their perception will change and they'll likely realize that you're quiet and smart. But I can definitely see how they would be surprised based on their misconception of your confidence. Don't take it personally.

Ah, thanks for sharing. I didn't see it from that perspective, but that makes sense. I also gave a presentation on a pre-defined topic today; I had the same chief look over it before hand and he said it was "better than he expected it would be", which I think confirms what you're saying. I just wish people didn't equate quiet to dumb, but I guess it's part of human nature/our culture.

 

[ERDOC555]

Ah, thanks for sharing. I didn't see it from that perspective, but that makes sense. I also gave a presentation on a pre-defined topic today; I had the same chief look over it before hand and he said it was "better than he expected it would be", which I think confirms what you're saying. I just wish people didn't equate quiet to dumb, but I guess it's part of human nature/our culture.

Yeah, it's unfortunate but that tends to be the trend in medicine as well as many other fields (especially business). Sometimes confidence is more acknowledged than competence :/

 

[mw18]

Quiet med students are unfairly treated by the process of rotations. There's a sweet spot between talking too much and thinking too much of yourself and being too quiet, but the more you talk the better you'll fare. Even and probably especially not just about medical things. But getting to know your team and offering your ideas when appropriate (this is key) is important.

 

[CaptainSSO]

It’s part of the game, man.

It doesn’t stop in residency.

I’m naturally quiet as well, but I’m in a procedural specialty and you’re basically expected to talk.

The better you get, the less you have to talk, because your skill will speak for you. But earlier in the game it helps you to talk, because people can relate to you more even if you’re currently still learning.

 

[sliceofbread136]

It’s tough being a quiet person in ms3, rotation grades definitely skew more towards people with more loud personalities. I think this is especially true in surgery. Honestly I wouldn’t try and change how you act, just do your best to learn how things work, take thorough h+ps and come up with independent plans (use UpToDate for help). Hope for the best and be ready for the shelf

 

[Mad Jack]

Currently on my first core rotation, gen surg, and I think the impression that my team has of me is that I'm dumb. I think it's unfounded -- I'm a pretty quiet guy, and I don't really talk unless I know what I'm talking about, so I don't really shine too much on rounds, especially since it's my first real clinical experience and I'm still trying to find the lay of the land.

Anyways, today my chief asked me a question about a plan for a patient I've been following. I answered correctly, much to his surprise I suppose, and him and one of the interns start talking about how I must have overheard them talking about it earlier because that's the only way I would have gotten the answer right.

Is this considered bullying/abuse? Do they just think I'm dumb? Or are they just expressing surprise because I'm new and got the right answer to their question? Are they just shooting the **** at my expense? I don't hear them talking about the other med student that way (granted, he has one more rotation under his belt than I do and is stronger than me clinically).

Any opinions greatly appreciated.

Chill out, it's nbd

 

[Dro133]

It’s part of the game, man.

It doesn’t stop in residency.

I’m naturally quiet as well, but I’m in a procedural specialty and you’re basically expected to talk.

The better you get, the less you have to talk, because your skill will speak for you. But earlier in the game it helps you to talk, because people can relate to you more even if you’re currently still learning.

Should I be more talkative during procedures? I have a hard time straddling that line between asking too many questions/being too quiet. Maybe I should just pepper in a few questions here and there...

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

 

[Redpancreas]

Currently on my first core rotation, gen surg, and I think the impression that my team has of me is that I'm dumb. I think it's unfounded -- I'm a pretty quiet guy, and I don't really talk unless I know what I'm talking about, so I don't really shine too much on rounds, especially since it's my first real clinical experience and I'm still trying to find the lay of the land.

Anyways, today my chief asked me a question about a plan for a patient I've been following. I answered correctly, much to his surprise I suppose, and him and one of the interns start talking about how I must have overheard them talking about it earlier because that's the only way I would have gotten the answer right.

Is this considered bullying/abuse? Do they just think I'm dumb? Or are they just expressing surprise because I'm new and got the right answer to their question? Are they just shooting the **** at my expense? I don't hear them talking about the other med student that way (granted, he has one more rotation under his belt than I do and is stronger than me clinically).

Any opinions greatly appreciated.

Not abuse. Get out of your head and practice mindfulness.

 

[MSTPlease]

Should I be more talkative during procedures? I have a hard time straddling that line between asking too many questions/being too quiet. Maybe I should just pepper in a few questions here and there...

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Depends. I think if the resident and attending are just shooting the breeze, then feel free to chime in if you have something relevant/interesting to say. This is part of "working well with the team." Don't be offended though if you get cut off/talked over because something related to the procedure needs to be said because that trumps anything you could be saying (and you should stop talking as soon as you sense that's what's happening).

Questions are good if they are at an appropriate time (i.e. not during the most difficult part of the surgery, not when something is going wrong, not if the attending doesn't seem to like having you asking questions) and if the questions aren't super obvious things you could just be looking up on your own or stuff you should already know. Sounds like that won't actually be an issue for you so avoid the opposite end of asking questions that sound like you're just asking to make yourself sound smart.

 

[deleted480308]

Not even a little bit abuse

Relax

 

[IMApplicant18]

It’s tough being a quiet person in ms3, rotation grades definitely skew more towards people with more loud personalities. I think this is especially true in surgery. Honestly I wouldn’t try and change how you act, just do your best to learn how things work, take thorough h+ps and come up with independent plans (use UpToDate for help). Hope for the best and be ready for the shelf

Truth × 10.

Attendings are so busy that unless you make an effort to display knowledge and initiative - you will just be another nameless M3 with an average eval.

I had classmates who I thought were extremely annoying - yet had comments on their eval like "eager learner, hard-worker, sought learning opportunities"...etc.

M3s are really expected to know nothing at their stage of training - showing off you are trying hard means a lot.

 

[Donald Juan]

Those comments in the OP sound like something I would say jokingly to a med student. Are you sure they aren't just screwing with you a little bit?