Is this what research is really like?

[Mahhhuuse]

I currently work in a neuroscience lab as a freshman, which is focused around neuro-stimulation. And by god is it boring.

This describes what I do exactly during each of my shifts:
1. Start up computers, programs, and stimulators (i.e. turn things on)
2. Get rats from housing area into the lab area.
3. Put rats (around 5) into their individual training booths and plug them into the stimulator
4. Spend an hour watching the video monitors and matlab programs to make sure the rats are training
5. After an hour, take rats out, put them in housing area, get new rats, and repeat again.
6. Spend extra hour doing random work, like cleaning out cages, habituating cranky rats, or just studying.

Every single three hour shift shift, three days a week, for this semester and last semester. This schedule has literally not deviated in the slightest during my time in the time. My PI is completely and absolutely absent in every sense of the word. I've heard he is an incredibly nice guy, but I have actually never talked to him. The post-doc I work under is always in his office analyzing data or in a meeting. He pops by at least once every shift to make sure things are going okay, but other than a quick hello, he never really says anything. I have not learned any new techniques, no new pieces of information, nothing that I couldn't get from reading 1-2 papers about our type of stimulation. I, nor any undergrad, have been in a lab meeting.

Is this what real research is really like on the undergrad level? I was expecting monotony in a research lab, because discovering things take time, I get that. But this level of it? Is this what it's supposed to be like? Should I switch labs? I feel fortunate to be in any lab at all, don't get me wrong, but I cannot deal with this for the next three years.

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[Mahhhuuse]

And also: I have tried to come up with my own ideas, so I could at least head my own project and spend my own time analyzing stuff. But when I told my post-doc my ideas, he just said "Sounds interesting. Try talking to [other Ph.D student in the lab], she/he has some experience in that area". And when I try to talk to that particular student, they are always 'too busy' to talk to me.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Yes. Bench research is slow. I did a full year and my PI had been working on his project for years prior because getting a high 'n' takes a long time (for that project) and the journals had the paper under review and wanted a higher 'n'. I won't get published in the paper. But that's not what I cared about.

 

[Panteleimon]

Some labs are definitely worse than others. I did analytical chemistry last summer. Half the project was interesting, the other half was mind numbingly dull. I feel like a lot of undergraduate researchers are the drudge monkeys of the lab. The PIs just tell you what tricks you need to know, and you do them. It's like academic hazing or something...

 

[Brorthopedic]

You're a freshman in college, I've seen others with PhD's doing much less these days. It seems super laid back, bring some books and study if you're that bored.

 

[Nymphicus]

Some labs are like that. Some are not. But what you describe doesn't sound out of the ordinary. Someone has to feed the rats and wash the dishes...

 

[JMMTB]

I currently work in a neuroscience lab as a freshman, which is focused around neuro-stimulation. And by god is it boring.

This describes what I do exactly during each of my shifts:
1. Start up computers, programs, and stimulators (i.e. turn things on)
2. Get rats from housing area into the lab area.
3. Put rats (around 5) into their individual training booths and plug them into the stimulator
4. Spend an hour watching the video monitors and matlab programs to make sure the rats are training
5. After an hour, take rats out, put them in housing area, get new rats, and repeat again.
6. Spend extra hour doing random work, like cleaning out cages, habituating cranky rats, or just studying.

Every single three hour shift shift, three days a week, for this semester and last semester. This schedule has literally not deviated in the slightest during my time in the time. My PI is completely and absolutely absent in every sense of the word. I've heard he is an incredibly nice guy, but I have actually never talked to him. The post-doc I work under is always in his office analyzing data or in a meeting. He pops by at least once every shift to make sure things are going okay, but other than a quick hello, he never really says anything. I have not learned any new techniques, no new pieces of information, nothing that I couldn't get from reading 1-2 papers about our type of stimulation. I, nor any undergrad, have been in a lab meeting.

Is this what real research is really like on the undergrad level? I was expecting monotony in a research lab, because discovering things take time, I get that. But this level of it? Is this what it's supposed to be like? Should I switch labs? I feel fortunate to be in any lab at all, don't get me wrong, but I cannot deal with this for the next three years.

Well you are on the bottom of the totem pole... So you can't expect to be instantly running the lab. It does seem like every PI runs their lab slightly different. I'd recommend seeing what sophomores/juniors/seniors are doing in the lab as well as whether they are getting added to posters/papers. You could ask to meet with your PI to discuss how you can grow within your lab and see what he offers you. Also does what you study interest you?

From personal experience, I've worked in two labs. One had a lot of students in it so the PI knew very few students and only those that had worked there for 3 years had the opportunity to publish. When I asked a graduate student what the purpose of our study was, they responded if I knew what X was and when I didn't, they said that I really couldn't understand it until I had at least studied up on it - while giving me no guidance on where to go to learn more. This lab had a high turnover rate as you can see why.

The other lab is really small and our PI meets with us often, comes into the lab, brainstorms with us, shoots the breeze... We each head up separate projects, giving us ownership. Several students have submitted papers where they are first authors. Our PI knows our end goals and is supportive of us.
I think you can tell which lab I'm still a part of.

 

[Mahhhuuse]

Well you are on the bottom of the totem pole... So you can't expect to be instantly running the lab. It does seem like every PI runs their lab slightly different. I'd recommend seeing what sophomores/juniors/seniors are doing in the lab as well as whether they are getting added to posters/papers. You could ask to meet with your PI to discuss how you can grow within your lab and see what he offers you. Also does what you study interest you?

From personal experience, I've worked in two labs. One had a lot of students in it so the PI knew very few students and only those that had worked there for 3 years had the opportunity to publish. When I asked a graduate student what the purpose of our study was, they responded if I knew what X was and when I didn't, they said that I really couldn't understand it until I had at least studied up on it - while giving me no guidance on where to go to learn more. This lab had a high turnover rate as you can see why.

The other lab is really small and our PI meets with us often, comes into the lab, brainstorms with us, shoots the breeze... We each head up separate projects, giving us ownership. Several students have submitted papers where they are first authors. Our PI knows our end goals and is supportive of us.
I think you can tell which lab I'm still a part of.

My post-doc currently has 5 undergrads working underneath him, and the PI himself has maybe 3-4 grad students under him? Hard to tell sometimes, since he frequently is with doctoral students which aren't working underneath him.
The other undergrads in the lab honestly haven't done much of anything...I'm the youngest student in the lab, most of the others are juniors and seniors, and none are running their own project or doing anything that I'm not doing. Should this be a red flag?

Also, what we study does interest me, so staying in the lab if I can make it work would be best. Are PI's usually receptive to undergrads talking to them about opportunities to expand within the lab? Like would my doctoral student feel like I am 'going over his head', so to speak?

 

[gyrfalcon]

Every single three hour shift shift, three days a week, for this semester and last semester. This schedule has literally not deviated in the slightest during my time in the time. Is this what real research is really like on the undergrad level? I was expecting monotony in a research lab, because discovering things take time, I get that. But this level of it?

Hint: It's not about you. Research labs exist to produce papers, primarily for the PI, and secondarily for the grad students who are seeking their own research careers. Academic research is brutally competitive and there is no room for wasted time. Teaching you how to become a researcher is waaaay down on the priority list, because PIs usually assume that undergrads are looking for some application filler rather than really being interested in the science.

Bench research takes a very long time and often has some finicky steps that can cause the entire experiment to fail, wasting months/years of work. As a new undergrad research assistant, your first task is to prove to the rest of the lab that you are not going to screw up their experiments by being lazy, untrustworthy, or not following instructions. It sounds like you are on your way to doing that. You should expect to spend 6-12 months in most labs doing repetitive work before you are given anything more complicated. It might also be helpful to realize that although this work is boring for you, it is absolutely necessary in the big scheme of things and people are undoubtedly thankful for your assistance.

Now that you have been there for 9 months, it is about time to ask for something a little more intellectually challenging to work on. You should absolutely go talk to the PI. Make an appointment and go talk to him face to face. If you want your own small project to work on then ask for it or at least to be put on a path that will lead to that. If you just want to learn new things then that's also fine, just make it clear to him. Remember to keep in mind that his #1 job is to maintain the productivity of the lab. If you can ask for something that is *likely to be useful* without costing much of his grad students' and postdocs' time then you will likely get it. "I could help postdoc X finish her experiment quicker if I was trained how to Y" or "I enjoy working in this lab and I plan to stay until I graduate. Before that day arrives, I would like to run a small experiment here from start to finish. Do you have a project that you would like to see done, that would be suitable for me to work towards?"

 

[Petrichor1]

that is a matter of initiative and time. Undertaking an independent project can be a lot to do with (esp, with mouse studies) and if you don't get the results you are hoping, it can be very time wasting effort.

 

[Panteleimon]

A friend of mine got into a competitive summer position at a local research/education hospital. There were days she literally did nothing. When she did, it was looking for trends on excel. However, if you want to expand, I recommend reading the Prince and The Art of War; these books will be indispensable in taking over your lab.

 

[Salt Salt]

Ask your PI if you can get on a paper anytime soon, or quit. Don't buy into this "be humble/you belong at the bottom of the totem pole" stuff.

Even if it's true that an undergrad "belongs at the bottom of the totem pole" or is not entitled to do anything but scut work, there are thousands of undergrads out there who managed to get into labs with actual mentorship, learning, and productivity. Be one of these undergrads.


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[JMMTB]

Ask your PI if you can get on a paper anytime soon, or quit. Don't buy into this "be humble/you belong at the bottom of the totem pole" stuff.

Even if it's true that an undergrad "belongs at the bottom of the totem pole" or is not entitled to do anything but scut work, there are thousands of undergrads out there who managed to get into labs with actual mentorship, learning, and productivity. Be one of these undergrads.


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Trick is to find a lab where there isn't a totem pole. If you can find a PI that has recently been hired, they might not have any post-docs/grad students yet so you could be heading up your own project soon.

 

[Panteleimon]

Depends on the scho

Trick is to find a lab where there isn't a totem pole. If you can find a PI that has recently been hired, they might not have any post-docs/grad students yet so you could be heading up your own project soon.

True. I worked with a visiting prof. last year and it was great. He treated us like peers and would often just talk to us for hours about research design, navigating the political world of publishing, and a lot more.

 

[bananafish94]

Ask your PI if you can get on a paper anytime soon, or quit. Don't buy into this "be humble/you belong at the bottom of the totem pole" stuff.

Even if it's true that an undergrad "belongs at the bottom of the totem pole" or is not entitled to do anything but scut work, there are thousands of undergrads out there who managed to get into labs with actual mentorship, learning, and productivity. Be one of these undergrads.


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The end goal of working in a lab should not be to get on a paper. Getting published depends entirely on the policies of the lab, the relationship you have with the PI, and serendipity. Most premeds will not have a publication. But having longitudinal commitment in research labs is nothing to shake a stick at.

 

[Salt Salt]

Trick is to find a lab where there isn't a totem pole. If you can find a PI that has recently been hired, they might not have any post-docs/grad students yet so you could be heading up your own project soon.

This was my experience! Worked in a tiny lab, learned a TON of stuff, and got published after two months.

Definitely didn't deserve an experience that good. So I hate to see people who are smarter than me and who have a way better work ethic get stuck in bad research experiences


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[Holmwood]

Let's just say not all labs are going to net you a poster/pub, no matter how hard you work....
PIs are busy people, especially with a big lab. So I understand how difficult it may be to contact him.

As others have said, if you wanted to move to a smaller lab, you'll have more work to do. Probably more opportunities as well.
For now, you're going to have to find ways to contact your PI and see if he's open to letting you tack on more responsibilities. Demonstrating that you know the research WELL is a good start to building that trust.

It might not get you a pub or first-authorship poster in the short term, but you might get to do some other meaningful stuff. Maybe you'll get to train newbies. Maybe he'll let you present at SfN or some other big conference with the project leader. Maybe he'll let you write a review paper. . .

If things turn south, try and squeeze as much out of the current lab. A LOR at the least.

 

[MaxPlancker]

You need to find a PI and group that puts teaching and mentoring a priority. Not all labs want to just push out papers; there are people who are really appreciative of the mentorship they got when they were in your shoes. Be up front with the PI about what they expect from you AND what you expect from them.

 

[Salt Salt]

The end goal of working in a lab should not be to get on a paper. Getting published depends entirely on the policies of the lab, the relationship you have with the PI, and serendipity. Most premeds will not have a publication. But having longitudinal commitment in research labs is nothing to shake a stick at.

I didn't say the end goal of lab work is getting on papers. I simply said that the prospect of a paper (or poster or *something* to show for their work) would be the only thing to make it worth sticking around.

Longitudinal commitment simply to demonstrate that one is capable of longitudinal commitment is a terrible reason to stay involved in a lab that is essentially using an undergrad like a cheaper robot. There's way too much cool research, mentoring opportunities, chances to learn new skills and exercise one's creativity in the lab, and (yes) potential to get put on papers to justify sticking with a lab simply because it happened to be the first one the OP has worked in. Just my $0.02!


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[JDunc]

I'm a graduate student pursuing a M.S. and PhD. I would say in my experience some labs are like that. In your case though, take what you can get research experience wise. You're a freshman in college. If you were a junior or senior I would say to find a different PI that would let you be more involved. It is also key to find a PI and lab that makes it a priority to teach undergrads the proper way to perform quality research.

When I did undergrad research I was independent. My PI gave me literature to read and his lab notebook to see what has been done. He wanted to see if I had what it took to pick up where he left off. He obviously assisted me when I had questions but ultimately his goal was to make me into a scientist. If you can find someone like this it will help your critical thinking skills which in turn could help with the MCAT.

Obviously this is all my opinion. There is some good advice and such in previous posts before mine. If you have any questions feel free to shoot me a message! Good luck!


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[MDProspect]

I don't know how neuroscience labs operate, but I had an enjoyable experience in both of my chemistry-related research opportunities. The trick is to find a field of study that you would be interested in. Then consider asking yourself whether you are there to get published or do you actually want to learn and get hands-on experience. If it's the latter, then consider choosing a smaller lab that isn't a publication factory and where your PI will have time for questions.

 

[aegistitan]

Sounds like your lab is a waste of time. Go ask for your own project. If not, stay until you find another lab to switch to. I recommend a molecular biology lab because as a premed that will expose you to different assays that are covered extensively on the MCAT - at least in a molecular biology lab you will get that exposure even if you sit on your ass for 2 years

 

[takeurmeds02]

Yes. This is bench research. It sucks. I couldn't do it.

 

[rsrs3739]

I worked on an animal ID project one summer. All I did was compare thousands of pictures of dolphins and record matching ones on Excel spreadsheet. I wanted to shoot myself.
Then I switched to a genetics lab the following fall semester where I got to learn molecular techniques like PCR and genetic sequencing. It was a lot better and I stuck with it until graduation

 

[osckey]

PIs will generally place you in a position where you can't catastrophically screw up their experiment as a green volunteer. It's going to take time before you graduate to the big leagues: pippeting until your thumb falls off.