Is this year more competitive?

[Erakis]

I am curious about this 2012-2013 cycle. I have seen a few things and heard some anecdotes that suggest that this is a more competitive year for MD applications and wanted to see if anybody else had thoughts.

First, earlier in the cycle, I had a close friend who applied to GW. She had a solid mcat, good GPA, undergrad degree from GW, and six years as a practicing PA. She was rejected and asked the adcom afterwards, and they just told her that this is a tough year.

I didn't think too much of that, then recently interviewed at Rochester, and they said that applications are up 18% this year from previous years.

UNC said that their applications were up too.

It's not exactly a solid sample, so I am curious to see if anyone else noticed this.

Thanks

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[Mavii]

Yes it is.

Next year will be even more competitive.

The year after that even more so.


tldr; who cares?

 

[mimelim]

Everyone complains that each year is more competitive than the last and can offer anecdotal evidence to support.

 

[darkjedi]

This should give you a sense of the general competitiveness of medical school applications

U.S. Medical School Applicants and Students 1982-1983 to 2011-2012

In the past few years it has gotten marginally more competitive each year, but not by a significant margin that you would notice, at least for non-top tier schools. Not to mention the new schools that have opened up.

 

[Erakis]

Everyone complains that each year is more competitive than the last and can offer anecdotal evidence to support.

I thought as much, hence the admission that I only had a few antecdotes. I assume when a school says "this is a competitive year" that is really means, "you are not what we are looking for." By saying things like that, they do tend to perpetuate the notion.

 

[mimelim]

I thought as much, hence the admission that I only had a few antecdotes. I assume when a school says "this is a competitive year" that is really means, "you are not what we are looking for." By saying things like that, they do tend to perpetuate the notion.

I've never told someone, "this is a competitive year", but I would translate that into, "you are nice, but there are a lot of nice people out there."

 

[487806]

This should give you a sense of the general competitiveness of medical school applications

U.S. Medical School Applicants and Students 1982-1983 to 2011-2012

In the past few years it has gotten marginally more competitive each year, but not by a significant margin that you would notice, at least for non-top tier schools. Not to mention the new schools that have opened up.

It's competitive because of the recession (and an increasing influx of nontrads). They always have enough money available to apply for a long, difficult journey in medicine. Imagine a sudden inflation. That won't be good.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Every year is more competitive than the last.

 

[MedPR]

Each year is not more competitive than the previous one. At my BU interview, they went over the amount of AMCAS applications over the years and it is not consistantly increasing.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Medical school admissions is stupid and is getting even more stupid each year.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I am curious about this 2012-2013 cycle. I have seen a few things and heard some anecdotes that suggest that this is a more competitive year for MD applications and wanted to see if anybody else had thoughts.

First, earlier in the cycle, I had a close friend who applied to GW. She had a solid mcat, good GPA, undergrad degree from GW, and six years as a practicing PA. She was rejected and asked the adcom afterwards, and they just told her that this is a tough year.

I didn't think too much of that, then recently interviewed at Rochester, and they said that applications are up 18% this year from previous years.

UNC said that their applications were up too.

It's not exactly a solid sample, so I am curious to see if anyone else noticed this.

Thanks

GW gets like 13000 applications a year, so it's super competitive in that sense even if the stats don't convey it.

For the most part, admission standards are where they were last year.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Each year is not more competitive than the previous one. At my BU interview, they went over the amount of AMCAS applications over the years and it is not consistantly increasing.

I didn't mean it in terms of number of applications, I meant in terms of scores, etc. MCAT scores have been going up.

 

[mwall003]

I didn't mean it in terms of number of applications, I meant in terms of scores, etc. MCAT scores have been going up.

Yes, there are more resources out there now-a-days that help boost applicant's scores. Another major factor is that has been an increase in applications over the past decade so that in turn drives the neurotic premed to study more for their MCAT. Some people will argue that the MCAT has become more lenient in terms of grading, but I believe MCAT scores have been going up every year because students are getting more prepared. A lot of the mid-aged/older docs I speak with said they studied at most a week to two weeks prepping for their MCAT.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

While it's true that the recession has a caused a jump in applications for all types of post-secondary education, it's a bit fallacious to assume that more applications = more competitive. The kind of person who decides to apply for a graduate/professional degree just because they can't find a job is also the kind of person who is extremely unlikely to be a serious contender in the admissions process. This is especially true for med school admissions where without years of preparation you don't stand a chance.

SDN also likes to exaggerate the rise in average applicant GPA and MCAT scores. While it has been rising, the rise has been extremely slow. A 0.01 point difference in applicant GPA and a 0.1 point difference in MCAT score is not a significant change over the previous year. Yes, they do eventually add up, but only when looking across decades.

 

[487806]

Every year is more competitive than the last.

Not always.

 

[darklabel]

It's competitive because of the recession (and an increasing influx of nontrads). They always have enough money available to apply for a long, difficult journey in medicine. Imagine a sudden inflation. That won't be good.

A note about that, while I commend non-trads for coming into this (especially the ones on SDN who have a job, wife, kids and busting out 3.7+ post-bacc), there are a lot of people without much of a clue about the process who just want to give it a try and see if they can get in. I doubt theres a huge increase in competitive non-trads because most don't have the time or resources to do it properly. It takes a certain special person to go back, do Pre-Med classes that usually weed out A LOT of premeds and get the grades to be competitive.

Remember, when it comes to real life, SDN doesn't really paint the whole picture.

 

[MedPR]

I didn't mean it in terms of number of applications, I meant in terms of scores, etc. MCAT scores have been going up.

Probably so, but still by negligible amounts. 10 years ago a 3.6/31 would've gotten you into a mid-tier school just like it will now.

 

[487806]

A note about that, while I commend non-trads for coming into this (especially the ones on SDN who have a job, wife, kids and busting out 3.7+ post-bacc), there are a lot of people without much of a clue about the process who just want to give it a try and see if they can get in. I doubt theres a huge increase in competitive non-trads because most don't have the time or resources to do it properly. It takes a certain special person to go back, do Pre-Med classes that usually weed out A LOT of premeds and get the grades to be competitive.

Remember, when it comes to real life, SDN doesn't really paint the whole picture.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[torshi]

Instead of thinking about it getting competitive just acknowledge the fact it's already. It's not going to jump proportionally higher in one year in terms of competitiveness. Relax, do well numbers wise and you will get in.

 

[SoulinNeed]

Probably so, but still by negligible amounts. 10 years ago a 3.6/31 would've gotten you into a mid-tier school just like it will now.

Yeah, but that's just half the battle. Now, you need more and more meaningful EC experiences. You've got to do more to stand out as an applicant. It wasn't this bad a decade ago.

And a 3.6/31 had a better chance of getting you into med school 10 years ago than it does now. Not saying it's still not a good score to get, but still.

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Yeah, but that's just half the battle. Now, you need more and more meaningful EC experiences. You've got to do more to stand out as an applicant. It wasn't this bad a decade ago.

And a 3.6/31 had a better chance of getting you into med school 10 years ago than it does now. Not saying it's still not a good score to get, but still.

Take a look back at the posts on SDN from the early 00s. They're pretty much indistinguishable from the ones you'll find today. Things haven't changed that much.

 

[Kaputt]

Probably so, but still by negligible amounts. 10 years ago a 3.6/31 would've gotten you into a mid-tier school just like it will now.

3.6/31 ten years ago would land you in the top tier. I remember seeing an MSAR from the late 90s/early 2000s in my school's pre-professional office/room...places like Pitt and Stanford had averages ~31. Harvard was the only place with an average >34.

Granted, those days were before Princeton Review, Kaplan, and Examkrackers started juicing the engines of the pre-med masses to get these ridiculously high MCAT scores everyone seems to get these days.

The process was still probably brutal 10 years ago, but the numbers were just different.

 

[alpinism]

10 years ago, the average MD matriculant had an MCAT of 29 and a cGPA of 3.62.

Back then a 33 MCAT would have made you competitive for WashU.

MCAT scores have been steadily rising over the years while GPAs have only increased a little.

 

[IlDestriero]

3.6/31 ten years ago would land you in the top tier. I remember seeing an MSAR from the late 90s/early 2000s in my school's pre-professional office/room...places like Pitt and Stanford had averages ~31. Harvard was the only place with an average >34.

Granted, those days were before Princeton Review, Kaplan, and Examkrackers started juicing the engines of the pre-med masses to get these ridiculously high MCAT scores everyone seems to get these days.

The process was still probably brutal 10 years ago, but the numbers were just different.

Absolutely correct. 20 years ago you could get into a top 20 school with those numbers. If I applied today, I'd be l drilling teeth for a living.