Is tuition costs an issue for you??

[geldrop]

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I really didn't think about it until now, but looking over some of the schools i was interested in attending... They cost a LOT. Tufts costs like 40k a year excluding books and housing. It also says students can incur debt of about 150-200k. That is a lot considering some schools are only about 15k a year tuition.

I don't even think the stafford subsidized & unsubsidized loan will cover it all if its THAT much. I remember there being a cap around 40k or something??? Anyone know off hand?

Have any of you spoken to physicians that are currently in debt and working at paying it off? Do they regret going to such an expensive school?

 

[wack]

I am terrified of tuition costs. Well maybe terrified is a strong word. However, I am very concerned. Currently I have been accepted into one state school ($13000), one state school out of state ($27000 first year, $17000 each additional year), and a couple of private schools, UofChicago and Emory (each around $32000 per year). I think all of the schools are very good and I think I could get a great education at each one, however the latter three are in larger cities which I think is somewhat preferrable. It is such a tough decision. My favorite is probably Chicago or Emory but they are so much money. I have talked to numerous doctors and all but one have said go to the cheapest school I can get into unless I am interested in academics. The one lone doctor said go to Emory (he was a Pitt grad). Of course I am fortunate to have such great choices, but this is an issue I have to deal with soon. This is a $100000 decision. Probably more with intrest. Additionally, I am 4-5 years older than most premeds which makes the choice tougher because my longterm earning power is probably reduced.

 

[Allygator89]

I think the cap is $38,500. $8,500, then $30K per year.... that is just from the government though.

 

[Mike59]

Originally posted by geldrop
I really didn't think about it until now, but looking over some of the schools i was interested in attending... They cost a LOT. Tufts costs like 40k a year excluding books and housing. It also says students can incur debt of about 150-200k. That is a lot considering some schools are only about 15k a year tuition.

I don't even think the stafford subsidized & unsubsidized loan will cover it all if its THAT much. I remember there being a cap around 40k or something??? Anyone know off hand?

Have any of you spoken to physicians that are currently in debt and working at paying it off? Do they regret going to such an expensive school?

Take those numbers with a grain of salt. It turns out that the gap between public and private tuitions is not that great. The avg debt for a private school grad is $120k (with living expenses) and for a public school grad, its $80k. Private schools cost so much that almost everyone qualifies for some sort of need based aid (and I'm guessing its need based scholarships that bring the avg down from numbers like $200k back toward $120k).

My top choices are private schools, but I'm leaving my public school acceptances open until FAFSA brings some closure to the matter.

I've spoken with several docs who warned me not to goto a private school because I'd never pay off the debt. I figure that for an extra $30-$50k, it would be worth the extra cash to be happier for 4 years, but once we're talking $75-100k more for the private school, I have to hesitate.

Just my financial aid reasoning $.02 😉

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Tuition rates should be a primary consideration for everyone, unless Mom, Dad or Uncle Sam are paying for med school. While I agree with those that say that you should "go where you will be happiest" you must also realize the long term implications of the debt.

Those average indebetedness stats that med schools provide us are for people that graduated around 2000-2001. Ours will be much higher. Unless you have an income source from somewhere, it is realistic to take the current tuition, multiply it by 4 and add living expenses. At $39,000 tuition and 12,000 living expenses, your debt load will be $204,000. If you factor in accrued interest, you will be approaching $225,000 at graduation. More if you consider the $12,000 living expenses to be unrealistic.

Most premeds do not understand how crippling this will be, especially if they are interested in going into some primary care field that doensn't pay particularly well. I caution everyone to look beyond the place that you think will make you the happiest.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Originally posted by Mike59
Private schools cost so much that almost everyone qualifies for some sort of need based aid (and I'm guessing its need based scholarships that bring the avg down from numbers like $200k back toward $120k).

For the typical application I suspect that this is absolutely NOT true. I don't think that there is much aid for us doc wannabes since we will all be so "rich" when we are done.

 

[md-student]

Tuition is very important. You have to eat!!!

With school being as stressful as it already is, you shouldn' t have to compound it with worrying about finances.

I chose a state school over several private schools. Granted, the name wasn't as big as some of the privates, but it has not hampered my residency application process at all. You'll get a good education just about anywere.

 

[DrCarin]

Hey guys- I'm kind of new here. But thought I would add in- financial aid at the private schools really depends on what school you're wanting to go to from what I hear. Like at Wash U where I am an undergrad, they have a significant amount of money to throw around because they are trying to draw highly desirable applicants out to St. Louis, when they could be somewhere like Boston.

I'm also definitely worrying about the debt factor though. It's a difficult choice between a better school and maybe a better location, and being even more in debt. I've already got loans from my undergrad education, and maybe I should try to add to them as little as possible. But I'm from NY, where the in state tuition is going way up which totally sucks. Nor am I convinced that I have any desire to live in NY anyway. But all of the doctors that I talk to say NOT to go to a private school. Go to a good public school, and make sure you rock the USMLE exams so you still get a great residency (which is really what is going to make you a doctor). My mentor is a MD/PhD grad of Wash U and he says there really is no reason to waste money on private schools. So, really- who knows what you should do! It's a tough decision for everyone I think.

 

[TroutBum]

I dunno, I might have to disagree with some of you guys. I work at a hospital and have spoken to a bunch of docs about debt, and most I've spoken too have told me not to let tuition make the decision for you. Either way, it's a lot of debt. I'm trying to decide between a $32000/year private school and a $15000/year public school. I'm leaning towards private, if only because I think it would be worth the extra $17000 a year to be in a place I'd be much happier in, since in any case I'm still gonna be over $80000 in debt, minimum (once living expenses are added in).

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Originally posted by TroutBum
I dunno, I might have to disagree with some of you guys. I work at a hospital and have spoken to a bunch of docs about debt, and most I've spoken too have told me not to let tuition make the decision for you. Either way, it's a lot of debt. I'm trying to decide between a $32000/year private school and a $15000/year public school. I'm leaning towards private, if only because I think it would be worth the extra $17000 a year to be in a place I'd be much happier in, since in any case I'm still gonna be over $80000 in debt, minimum (once living expenses are added in).

Obviously everyone has to make their own decision on this matter, but let me just say that $80,000 in debt is not really a big deal. $200,000 is a big deal, unless you are planning on going into a highly paid speciality.

For me, if it is a situation between a private school that I would be very happy and a public one that I would make me miserable, its an easy decision. Go private. It becomes more complicated when you know you will be very happy at the private one, but think that you could be reasonably satisfied (kinda happy) at the public one. Having a spouse also complicates things.

 

[tBw]

I would say go where you will be happy and receive the education you desire...with several caveats.

People that say "ignore cost and go where you will be happiest" are ignoring the fact that the day-to-day cost of living, price and quality of apartments, and post med-school debt is *part* of the equation about where you will be happiest.

People that say "go to your state school if you can" ignore that financial aid is sometimes better at private schools and can end up costing no different there.

People who say "go to the cheapest" are underestimating the importance that this is 4 years of your life, it will be a stressful 4 years, and while debts can be repaid 4 years of stress and misery cannot.

in other words it's a balance. Of course tuition costs comes into it, but it's not the be all and end all. It's just part of the decision, even if a not-insignificant part. Wait and take a look at the FA packages different schools offer and then make your mind up...

 

[qweewq11]

No, but subject-verb agreement is 😉

 

[ermonty]

Originally posted by wack
I have talked to numerous doctors and all but one have said go to the cheapest school I can get into unless I am interested in academics. This is a $100000 decision. Probably more with intrest. Additionally, I am 4-5 years older than most premeds which makes the choice tougher because my longterm earning power is probably reduced.

Wack,

DITTO to every bit of that! I chose my state school (MCG) over UVa for the very reasons you mentioned. Medschool and getting into a good residency are more about individual effort. So for me, I couldn't justify going to MUCH more expensive UVa (even though I liked it the best of all schools that I got accepted to), when I can go to state school and kick a--, and still get into whatever field of medicine that I want.

ermonty

 

[PelicanMan]

For me personally.

I THINK IT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL COMES DOWN TO ONE QUESTION.



HOW IMPORTANT IS MONEY FOR YOU.

I have been accepted at a cheap instate school that I liked. and to Boston University (one of the most expensive med schools).

For me tuition is a factor in my decision but its in the bottom of my priorities.

I don't care how much debt you have and I dont' care what specialty you go into.

Even if you end up with 300,000 dollars debt, and your a pediatrician. You will be able to pay off the debt. Maybe it will take a long time, but do you really think you will be living like a bum because of this. No. You are still going to be in the upper class of society. I think that one should go to the best medical that fits them. That will make them happiest. Now for some people, having a small debt after med schools makes them very happy. Then I think that they should go to the cheap school. I'm sorry that im ranting, but it just seems to me that tooo many damn people are going into medicine for the money. I know that I am an idealist and I expect some harsh comments.

I can't decide for people where to go to med school, but my advice would be to go to the one that makes you happiest, whatever that may be.

thanks

 

[johnstoner]

sometimes being in a lot of debt can affect happiness so go to a school that makes you happy whether its a cheap school that makes you happy b/c you have no stress in terms of money matters or a "name" school because you like the "reputation" and are willing to shell out a lot of benjamins to go there.

happiness is all relative.

 

[PelicanMan]

EXACTLY

 

[jwin]

these numbers have been done countless times on sdn, but no one seems to pay any attention to them, so here we go again.

starting salary for peds: 120K
take home pay per month: (assuming 33% total taxes which is a low estimate) $6,700

loan repayment per month on 150K: ~2700 per month (depending on what you do with your interest accumulation during residency deferrement)

$6700-2700=4000 per month

4000 per month=not a very big salary--the equivalent of a before taxes $62K salary a year.

yes i know that many people live on less, but few of them have 7 years of training and education.

paying 2700 dollars a month till you are 42 years old is a serious committment. most of us are making financial committments that are going to still be affecting us 20 years from now.

 

[owen_osh]

Originally posted by jwin
loan repayment per month on 150K: ~2700 per month

According to the financial aid manual I got at Northwestern, we can expect monthly payments of $125 for every $10,000 owed. So the total monthly payment should be more like $1875.

 

[jwin]

out of 150K, only 34K can be subsidized, therefore 116K will be unsubsidized which amounts to 29K per year, as i mentioned most people defer their loans for the 3.5 years allowed during residency for economic hardship.

1st year loans by time of repayment: 48K
2nd year by time of repayment: 44K
3rd year by time of repayment: 41K
4th: 38K
unsubsidized loan total: 34K

total amount when repayment begins: 205K

monthly payment: 2500 per month

sorry i was off my 200 but i am still closer than your northwestern figure. be careful of the figures the schools give you, they are not always right. get a simple finance book and look, it is straight from the formulas.

 

[DW]

Originally posted by jwin
out of 150K, only 34K can be subsidized

Not necessarily. Some schools I've interviewed at make up to 22 K available in subsidized loans (Perkins and institutional loans).

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

But all of the doctors that I talk to say NOT to go to a private school. Go to a good public school, and make sure you rock the USMLE exams so you still get a great residency (which is really what is going to make you a doctor). My mentor is a MD/PhD grad of Wash U and he says there really is no reason to waste money on private schools.

I like this answer, and your mentor is a wise man.

 

[wack]

Sorry I just had to respond to those who said that people worried about tuition must be money hungry scum. That is a load of ____. However, I must admit that I have considerred the same line of reasoning. Life would be so much easier if I could just think that way. If you go to a high priced school as good as it may be you will have debt that drastically effects your choice of specialty and practice location. Say for example you decide that you want to be a FP in a rural area. Good luck trying to pay back 250000 in debt when you don't even start working until you are 34. The other thing is that the bottom is falling out of medicine. Reimbursements are dropping year on year and malpractice is skyrocketing. Medicine will be different in the 21st century and I am betting against it being pretty (financially). The loans that you are taking out now are based on medicine's current earning power not what I am predicting it will be in the future. My point is that a person can do a lot of good with 100 to 150k. Even if you go into a high paying specialty like ortho you could do more volunteer/shriner type work or hell just donate 100k to charity over your lifetime. That money could make a lot of difference in lives other than your own. However, going to UChicago would be an amazing experience. Sigh.

 

[Mike59]

Originally posted by wack
Say for example you decide that you want to be a FP in a rural area. Good luck trying to pay back 250000 in debt when you don't even start working until you are 34.

What are you smoking?? If we all chose FP, most of us would start our residency at 25-28 years of age?!?🙄

 

[wack]

Yeah you will because you are a trad student, but I will graduate at 30 years and 9 months of age. Residency pays little and lasts at least 3 years. Imagine owning a $200,000 home with a single income of ~$40000. But you can't live in the home you have to pay rent. Most people won't finish residency ( get a real job) until they are 29 or 30 and that is when you actually have earning power. I am not bashing people for taking on the debt, I will probably be one of those people taking on the big debt. However, I refuse to take it lightly and you shouldn't either. Financially, you have to be prepared for the unexpected. What if I get married or have kids, etc. Just stuff to think of.

 

[Deuce 007 MD]

Originally posted by wack
. My point is that a person can do a lot of good with 100 to 150k.

Seriously, I know a family that took 70k and opened up a subway sandwich shop, with the earning from one store they opened up two more. They've made enough money to buy a half a million dollar home, and put 4 kids threw USC (university of spoiled children) undergrad. Now that's alot of chedder. Save your money go public, just rock the boards and classes you'll get your res.

 

[joshua_msu]

I have deposits in at two schools. One is my state school, and judging by the projected budget, I willl have to borrow around 160K for tuition and living expenses. The other school is private, and I will have to borrow around 200K for my four years. I am almost positively going to the private school, because I will like it so much better that it is worth the extra cost. I figure it like this, I could wait till next year and reapply to a school that is cheaper in my home state, or the school that is in my hometown and save alot of money by living at home, but it doesnt really pay off in the end. I would be one year older after finishing my residnecy, so right there, is decreased earning power that makes up for the 40K or so more I will spend. I figure I will be working for around 40 years, so I will make enough in my lifetime in order to pay my dues.

 

[Slinkie]

I had opted to go to a private undergrad on the East Coast because I felt that I wouldn't be happy at a public school, and I would rather take out the loans than be miserable. However, now I am headed to a public state school. I think the school told us during the interview their average grad has debt of $70k or so, which is significantly lower than a private school. I will definately miss the East Coast for the next four years... But after I graduate/finish residency I will feel less pressure to look for a highest paying job and just do whatever makes me happy. And I will also be less stressed about sinking deeper into debt when I want to take on more loans to buy a home or whatever else I want to do....

 

[tBw]

once I get my first loan check I can head to vegas and turn it into enough money for the rest of school and repayment at the black jack table. I can't believe no one else has thought of this 😉

 

[Mike59]

Originally posted by the boy wonder
once I get my first loan check I can head to vegas and turn it into enough money for the rest of school and repayment at the black jack table. I can't believe no one else has thought of this 😉

It's been done. Unfortunately, those students are no longer in med school due to fraud charges from the IRS😱

 

[Neuronix]

This is one more reason why I decided upon MD/PhD. I have no state school (Delaware) and my state has no partnerships with neighboring schools to lower tuition (unless you come back here and do primary care. Yeah right.).

I have met some people who have put their federal loan/grant money into the stock market. I think this was more common when the stock market was hot. They never got caught. I still don't recommend you do it though 🙂

 

[mws99]

Originally posted by joshua_msu
I have deposits in at two schools. One is my state school, and judging by the projected budget, I willl have to borrow around 160K for tuition and living expenses. The other school is private, and I will have to borrow around 200K for my four years. I am almost positively going to the private school, because I will like it so much better that it is worth the extra cost.

I'm in pretty much the same situation. It seems to me that the difference between public and private school's budgets is only about $10000-$12000 a year. That doesn't seem like a lot of money to me over the course of my career.
Also I went to a crappy state school for undergrad and now I regret not paying the extra money and going to the best school I got into. I'm not going to make that same mistake again for med school.

 

[NUcat]

It's not just the subsidized stafford loans that can be subsidized, Northwestern subsidizes the interest on institutional loans while you're in school using its endowment so it's numbers are right.