Isn't it boring?

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ribcrackindoc

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What's the draw to anesthesiology??? It seems like it would be boring.

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ribcrackindoc... that is an odd way to ask a question on an anesthesia forum... but i will give you the benefit of the doubt, that maybe you are truly interested...

the draw in anesthesia: 1) i get to be in the OR and i don't have to deal w/ the crap on the floors (except for codes - and those are fun) 2) i get to use my hands a lot for procedures (intubations, lines, epidurals, spinals, bronchoscopies, local blocks, etc...) 3) i get to take care of the sickest people at their most criticial point (ie: take a sick ICU player and then add a surgical complication) 4) the lifestyle for the most part is pretty decent in larger programs 5) i will be making big bucks (>300,000) when i finish residency....

Now before i went into anesthesia, i was really worried that i would be bored to death - but now that i have been behind the curtain by myself making life and death decisions, I realize that most of good anesthesia is pre-emptive anesthesia (avoiding problems).... so your anesthesiologist who looks like he is relaxing is in fact running tons of scenarios through his head so as to avoid as many problems as possible...

I love my job
 
Tenesma,
Thanks for your reply. Is there call for anesthesiologists? How many hours per week do they work? I really like surgery but I'm not sure I'll be up for the long hours and crazy call schedule that they live through. Especially, how are the hours and lifestyle RELATIVE to the hours of a surgeon?
 
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Originally posted by Tenesma
ribcrackindoc... that is an odd way to ask a question on an anesthesia forum... but i will give you the benefit of the doubt, that maybe you are truly interested...

the draw in anesthesia: 1) i get to be in the OR and i don't have to deal w/ the crap on the floors (except for codes - and those are fun) 2) i get to use my hands a lot for procedures (intubations, lines, epidurals, spinals, bronchoscopies, local blocks, etc...) 3) i get to take care of the sickest people at their most criticial point (ie: take a sick ICU player and then add a surgical complication) 4) the lifestyle for the most part is pretty decent in larger programs 5) i will be making big bucks (>300,000) when i finish residency....

Now before i went into anesthesia, i was really worried that i would be bored to death - but now that i have been behind the curtain by myself making life and death decisions, I realize that most of good anesthesia is pre-emptive anesthesia (avoiding problems).... so your anesthesiologist who looks like he is relaxing is in fact running tons of scenarios through his head so as to avoid as many problems as possible...

I love my job

This is EXACTLY why I am going into anesthesiology. I will add a few more reasons- I like interacting with and settling the fears of anxious patients, I'm good at establishing rapport quickly, I love bioethical issues, and in the critical care population you see lots of 'em, I'm way more contemplative than most surgeons (my second choice) and anesthesia will give me lots of time to think.
 
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The pay is phenomenal, the hours are fantastic, and I love the people I work with. I have already been home several times by 10 a..m.


i would really appreciate it if you could elaborate more on your hours and what time you start working. also, if you don't mind, how much was your starting salary? thanks
 
Gas man, that sounds great! If you don't mind, I would like a few details. How far from Chicago are you? Have you done a fellowship? How much call do you take? I am really interested in all this since I am currently doing my prelim year, and I will start anesthesiology residency next year. Any advice on what I should be doing this year and how I can land a sweet job like yours would we well appreciated.
 
sounds like the dream job to me!! how much is malpractice usually? thanks for all the help and quick responses
 
Gas man have you completed your residency yet or not? Also how long is residency for anesthesia? Thanks for your info gas man!
 
1) How many patients are really that complicated (ICU pt who also develops complications during the surgery)? If they are THAT complicated, the surgeons would not even touch them in the first place! It does seem that trauma can be very exciting. But is it that stimulating after taking care the 58th patients who are morbidly obese and have diabetes + recent MI and are undergoing lap chole?

2) When CRNA's and residents are around, I do see quite a few attendings pulling out journals to read while drinking lots of coffee to stay awake. Is it really that stimulating?
 
Just wanted to spill my 2 cents...

Was talking about specialties the other day with an OB resident. Mentioned how one of the only downsides of anesthesiology is you can find nice, boring practices out there of B&B cases. Now, for many people, these would be perfect practice environments, but I can see how this wouldn't appeal to the 20 and 30-something's on this forum.

Her reply was that nearly everything in medicine can get boring and repetitive after you become proficient at it! Even as a (very well trained) resident, she found some procedures becoming routine and boring.
 
Thanks for the reply, it did help. Reaffirms the fact that this is a great field to go into.
 
Originally posted by The_Gas_Man
This may last for another 3-5 years due to the increased number of people entering anesthesiolgy residencies. As more people enter the field, competition increases, and salaries subsequently decrease.

I've heard estimates of the golden age lasting 5-7, 7-10, and even 10-15 years. Those i trusted the most gave estimates of 7-10 years. They say it will last a while because alot of anesthesia residencies shut down and never reopened, and surgical volume is on the rise. Also there is a shortage of CRNA's that is expected to get worse, as alot of older CRNA's retire. I have heard that the salaries in anesthesia have always been pretty high, and aren't likely to go down too much, but that the "cush" jobs will be harder to find, and you will have to work more for your money.

I hope this is the case, I am still only in internship like gas, and have a few years to go before i can get into the market.
 
yeah i hope that it lasts more than 20 years because i'm just now starting my sophomore year in college. i guess i am thinking too much into the future though...
 
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This profession is far from boring except to the untrained eye. Every patient is different, and even a procedure you've done a thousand times can be a flail in your very next patient. Don't be fooled by what you see in the OR. This is a fast paced rewarding profession with many moments of potential disaster, and few moments of plain terror!
 
I wouldnt say gas is "exciting". This word is probably the most misused word, atleast in the context of anesthesiology. The primary goal of an anesthesiologist, is to work in silence, and to facilitate an uneventful surgical event. So when things do get "exciting", things arent quite going according to plan. At this point, the emotions of the anesthesiologist, would probably not be described by the word Excitement". More appropriate words to describe the anesthesiologist's frame of mind, would be... "anxious", "Terrified", or "scared".
I know, i'm going to hear that anesthesiologists should anticipate all possible outcomes and prepare thusly, and that these periods of sheer terror, are due to unpreparedness.
But, things happen so quickly in anesthesia, that even the most prepared anesthesiologist will be faced with these moments of terror, despite the best preparation.
If you ask me, anesthesiology allows you to visit various fields regularly, and gives you a bird's view of medicine, in various areas, such as the various surgical sub specialties, Obstetrics, Pediatrics, ICU exposure, Interventional radiology, etc.
So, when you think of anesthesiology, you shouldnt look forward to these "exciting" moments, but work to avoid them.
The best anesthesiologist is the one, that's least talked about...
 
That was a nice little glimpse into anesthesiology, ebaydove...
just brilliant..
I would add, that the word "exciting" was added into the gas vocabulary, just about the same time that salaries began heading up. I'm sure that it was pure coincidence, though ...
 
Originally posted by dimsum
That was a nice little glimpse into anesthesiology, ebaydove...
just brilliant..
I would add, that the word "exciting" was added into the gas vocabulary, just about the same time that salaries began heading up. I'm sure that it was pure coincidence, though ...

Anesthesia salaries have always been high, I think it is more a matter of people changing. They care less about hard core and sexy specialities like surgury, and began to look at medicine as more of a job, where try try to make as much money as you can with as much free time to enjoy it as possible.
 
Hi Naeblis,
a little correction to your note.....
anesthesia remuneration per procedure may have always been high, but dont assume that this is the same as salaries being high in anesthesia.
As recently as 1995, anesthesiologists were begging for 100k jobs, that were few, and far between...
this was due to the glut of anesthesiologists at the time.
That didnt mean that the remuneration was low. It was quite high, but was being made by people who owned the anesthesia practices, rather than the ones who were actually doing the procedures.
Owning an anesthesia practice is like having a nice kingdom.
In good times, everyone makes money. In bad times the practice owners make money, but the little anesthesiologists dont make money because there's too many available...

supply and demand..
 
I did an emergency medicine residency before changing to anesthesiology. Let me tell you, "excitement" as a reason to choose a specialty is not always a good one. "excitement" in the ER for me equalled "burn out" after just 3 years of residency.

I now (as an anesthesiology) resident come home every day and tell my husband how much I love my job. I LOVE being in the OR. I LOVE actually feeling like I made someone feel better and kept very, very bad things from happening to them.

I can't imagine how being a surgeon and doing your 1000+ hernia repair continues to be "exciting" -- but that's why I'm not a surgeon. I think that this is actually kind of a dumb question because if you can't see why someone is interested in our field than clearly you should be doing something else.
That 's why we all pick different specialties.
 
well said,
exciting, interesting, fulfilling is really in the eye of the beholder. I would imagine your average pathologist and ... pediatric neurosurgeon find VERY different things interesting...
 
Originally posted by dimsum
Hi Naeblis,
a little correction to your note.....
anesthesia remuneration per procedure may have always been high, but dont assume that this is the same as salaries being high in anesthesia.
As recently as 1995, anesthesiologists were begging for 100k jobs, that were few, and far between...
this was due to the glut of anesthesiologists at the time.
That didnt mean that the remuneration was low. It was quite high, but was being made by people who owned the anesthesia practices, rather than the ones who were actually doing the procedures.
Owning an anesthesia practice is like having a nice kingdom.
In good times, everyone makes money. In bad times the practice owners make money, but the little anesthesiologists dont make money because there's too many available...

supply and demand..

A big correction to your note. The people begging for the jobs were new grads, and since there was and oversupply of MDA's, they could get away with it. They could make new grads work 4-5 years w/io making partner. The ones who were making all the money were the ones who owned the practices, but remember these were other MDA's. So basically there were a few years where new MDA's were not making much, but the soon were back up to par. And prior to that period in the mid 90's, supply was close to demand, and the salaries were high back then. When I said historically i meant over the span of decades.

This period where the mda groups took advantage of new grads have given many groups a bad name. Many new grads no prefer salaried jobs at hospitals, but these are relatively rare. Most Mdas are parts of groups who contract with hospitals. Right now, most groups pay you like 150- 200k, and then you become a partner in a year or so and go to making like 300k+. When the shortage is over in 10 years, then you would make more like 130k for like 3 years and then make partner.
 
I don't know where people are getting their numbers from about this "slump" in mid nineties and MDA's not being to find jobs over 100k. That's not to say it didn't happen. However, most of what I hear of this time period is actually from non-MDA's talking about some anesthesiologist they knew through their sister's uncle's best friend.

After talking to several anesthesiologists it seems to me that there was a "hype" or a "scare" about the MDA market predictions (circa mid-90s). As a result practices scaled down on hiring and scared medical students stopped looking at the specialty. Whether this reflected true marketplace status quo - who knows.

I would encourage any MDA that looks at this board and was in practice for at least 10 years to come out and speak of how things seemed back then. We can continue to speculate, but I for once cannot find any solid evidence/numbers about what exactly transpired.
 
Originally posted by Krafty
I don't know where people are getting their numbers from about this "slump" in mid nineties and MDA's not being to find jobs over 100k. That's not to say it didn't happen. However, most of what I hear of this time period is actually from non-MDA's talking about some anesthesiologist they knew through their sister's uncle's best friend.

After talking to several anesthesiologists it seems to me that there was a "hype" or a "scare" about the MDA market predictions (circa mid-90s). As a result practices scaled down on hiring and scared medical students stopped looking at the specialty. Whether this reflected true marketplace status quo - who knows.

I would encourage any MDA that looks at this board and was in practice for at least 10 years to come out and speak of how things seemed back then. We can continue to speculate, but I for once cannot find any solid evidence/numbers about what exactly transpired.


Your pretty much right, and that scare was what caused so few us grads to go into anesthesia for a few years. It was mostly hype, but i have talked to docs who had just gotten out of training in that period, and they said that the groups of MDA's tried to take some advatage of the small oversupply, by not letting new grads become partners for 3-5 years, when the norm has been 1-3. Salaries are traditionally lower during this period, it is considered your buy in to the practice.
 
Please somone answer the question! hehe. What is the average workweek for anesthesiology? And what average salary corresponds to this average workweek?
 
sirvandy said:
Please somone answer the question! hehe. What is the average workweek for anesthesiology? And what average salary corresponds to this average workweek?

This is really not a very good question. Certain practice settings may have a huge difference in reimbursement or hospital subsidy. I am a practicing anesthesiologist with several colleagues at other groups throughout the country. My friends make anywhere from $140K (45 hours per week, 8 weeks off, as a new associate) to $650K (40 - 45 hours per week, 10 weeks off, as a partner). I also know friends who earn $500K working 70 hours per week, and others who earn $300K doing the same amount of work. One of my friends make almost $800K but has no vacations, and the hospital subsidizes his practice. You really can't look at the per hour rate because settings are different.

The average anesthesiologist makes about $280 - $320K in the average setting (45-50 hour week, 6 - 8 weeks off as a partner). What you do during those hours may be vastly different.
 
Everything and every specialty gets boring.

Im sure a CT surgeon doing his 70th CABG is bored out of his freakin mind. Ben Carson is probably also bored when he does his 3rd VP shunt of the day

Mike
 
mikeshana said:
Everything and every specialty gets boring.

Im sure a CT surgeon doing his 70th CABG is bored out of his freakin mind. Ben Carson is probably also bored when he does his 3rd VP shunt of the day

Mike

The issue of something being boring or uninteresting very relative.
That is what makes the world go around . We have different likes and dislikes.

CambieMD
 
Besides, isn't that the point of training?!?!?!!!!

As a patient, I'd like to go to a doc who has done so many of X that he or she considers them "boring". Perhaps "routine" is a better word for it.
 
ribcrackindoc said:
What's the draw to anesthesiology??? It seems like it would be boring.

Anesthesia is boring if it is done correctly. Easy intubation, in a healthy patient, for routine surgery.
An unanticipated difficult airway is NOT boring-- just listening to the pulse ox going down down down is enough to give me PVCs
The multiple trauma emergency intubation in a c-collar in the ED is NOT boring-- especially when you factor in the bloody airway and the full stomach.
The AAA rupture that flatlines after induction when all you have is the 20G IV from an OSH is NOT boring.
The laboring woman who is wheeled into the OR with the OB resident's arm up her cooter holding in the prolapsed cord is NOT boring.
The 2 yr old who goes into laryngospasm after a routine hernia repair and turns as blue as your scrubs is NOT boring.
Figuring out how to anesthetize a patient with epidermolysis bullosa without tearing their skin off is a complete pain in the ass, but is NOT boring.
I could go on, but in general, the attitude that your patient may try to die RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, EVERY TIME YOU GO IN THE OR, is not out of place in anesthesia. Even with the best preparation, no anesthesia can really be called 'routine'.
I have never been bored.
--mir
 
Awsome post man. Even the routine lap chole can turn into a nightmare.

I have found, in my limited experience, anesthesia in practice to be an art. From a "painless" IV stick to a smooth induction, to flawlessly balanced hemodynamics and anesthetic depth, to a smooth awakening, its all about taking pride in your personal efforts. Man I'm stoked about next year.
 
manixter said:
Anesthesia is boring if it is done correctly. Easy intubation, in a healthy patient, for routine surgery.
An unanticipated difficult airway is NOT boring-- just listening to the pulse ox going down down down is enough to give me PVCs
The multiple trauma emergency intubation in a c-collar in the ED is NOT boring-- especially when you factor in the bloody airway and the full stomach.
The AAA rupture that flatlines after induction when all you have is the 20G IV from an OSH is NOT boring.
The laboring woman who is wheeled into the OR with the OB resident's arm up her cooter holding in the prolapsed cord is NOT boring.
The 2 yr old who goes into laryngospasm after a routine hernia repair and turns as blue as your scrubs is NOT boring.
Figuring out how to anesthetize a patient with epidermolysis bullosa without tearing their skin off is a complete pain in the ass, but is NOT boring.
I could go on, but in general, the attitude that your patient may try to die RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, EVERY TIME YOU GO IN THE OR, is not out of place in anesthesia. Even with the best preparation, no anesthesia can really be called 'routine'.
I have never been bored.
--mir


Cool post!

CambieMD
 
Your wages are high, yes. However, isn't malpractice insurance astronomical with such a position? Or is that a benefit provided by a hospital? (I would think a hospital would try no to because the costs are so outrageous)

My first post on this forum- I normally post on computer enthusiast forums but I figured that wouldn't enrich my future occupational path as much. I'm only in my freshman year of undergrad but I've wanted to do anesthesiology since soph. year of high school. neurology and bionic surgery also caught my eye.

Anyway, hello! I hope to learn a lot here!
 
Orpheus333 said:
Your wages are high, yes. However, isn't malpractice insurance astronomical with such a position? Or is that a benefit provided by a hospital? (I would think a hospital would try no to because the costs are so outrageous)

My first post on this forum- I normally post on computer enthusiast forums but I figured that wouldn't enrich my future occupational path as much. I'm only in my freshman year of undergrad but I've wanted to do anesthesiology since soph. year of high school. neurology and bionic surgery also caught my eye.

Anyway, hello! I hope to learn a lot here!


Hi Orpheus,

Welcome to the forum! We have a lot of great med students, residents, and attending physicians that post here on a regular basis, so I'm sure you will learn a lot if you read what they have to say for a while. I know I have. For future reference, you are probably better off starting a new thread with a question like yours rather than bumping a thread that died almost a year ago if you want to get a response. People will more likely get defensive about anesthesia being boring than answer your question, based on the title.

You should read through the FAQ's at the top of this forum...I'm sure the answer to your question about malpractice is discussed at length in there.

Good to see a fellow Wisconsinite on the board...so where in WI are you located?
 
your avatar is amazing


STEVE HOLT!!!!!!
 
Thewonderer said:
1) How many patients are really that complicated (ICU pt who also develops complications during the surgery)? If they are THAT complicated, the surgeons would not even touch them in the first place! QUOTE]


Wrong. We see folks with crappy EF's, non functioning kidneys with sky high labile bp's that flip on a dime, transplant disasters (70 units of blood and 70 units of ffp), SIRS, old crusties with 4 MI's and multiple bypasses who still smoke, 500-600 lb monsters just waiting to crumple, you name it, frequently. If these folks need the operation versus death (or high probablility of life shortening morbidity) then they get the operation. Surgeons touch them all the time. They just need a good wingman up top.
 
Orpheus333 said:
Your wages are high, yes. However, isn't malpractice insurance astronomical with such a position? Or is that a benefit provided by a hospital? (I would think a hospital would try no to because the costs are so outrageous)

My first post on this forum- I normally post on computer enthusiast forums but I figured that wouldn't enrich my future occupational path as much. I'm only in my freshman year of undergrad but I've wanted to do anesthesiology since soph. year of high school. neurology and bionic surgery also caught my eye.

Anyway, hello! I hope to learn a lot here!

Anesthesia malpractice is pretty reasonable...usually 20-30 K per year..thats the simplistic answer, since your question has so many variables.
Learn to use the search function and you can find answers to alotta your questions...We posted a long thread on malpractice and how it works some time ago.

And welcome to the sdn anesthesia forum, Orpheus. We all learn alot about our trade here...who practices, how they practice, what cases are like, what we worry about, what we enjoy.
And you can learn alot about the practice of anesthesia here too.
 
Krafty said:
I don't know where people are getting their numbers from about this "slump" in mid nineties and MDA's not being to find jobs over 100k. That's not to say it didn't happen. However, most of what I hear of this time period is actually from non-MDA's talking about some anesthesiologist they knew through their sister's uncle's best friend.

After talking to several anesthesiologists it seems to me that there was a "hype" or a "scare" about the MDA market predictions (circa mid-90s). As a result practices scaled down on hiring and scared medical students stopped looking at the specialty. Whether this reflected true marketplace status quo - who knows.

I would encourage any MDA that looks at this board and was in practice for at least 10 years to come out and speak of how things seemed back then. We can continue to speculate, but I for once cannot find any solid evidence/numbers about what exactly transpired.

I came out of residency in 1996...typical starting salaries were half what they are now with partnership tracks twice as long as they are now.

A "good" deal back then was 150K with a 2-3 year partnership...and the explanations above are accurate...the partners were making 3-4 times your salary....a buddy of mine a year ahead of me went to Las Vegas and was making 300...everyone thought he was the king...
 
Wrong. We see folks with crappy EF's, non functioning kidneys with sky high labile bp's that flip on a dime, transplant disasters (70 units of blood and 70 units of ffp), SIRS, old crusties with 4 MI's and multiple bypasses who still smoke, 500-600 lb monsters just waiting to crumple, you name it, frequently. If these folks need the operation versus death (or high probablility of life shortening morbidity) then they get the operation. Surgeons touch them all the time. They just need a good wingman up top.[/QUOTE]

I am amazed all that time at how sick some patients are. These patients are put under all the time and do welll so no one thinks about all of the things that can go wrong.

CambieMD

p.s.
Has your name been changed to anesthesia, also. " Are you anesthesia?"
 
It does and can get boring sometimes...
 
Anaesthesia is often boring to look at but not boring to do. A lot of an anaesthesiologist's work is done is his mind, figuring out what to do next, thinking about what could happen if everything went on without your intervention and so on. Apart from that a lot of procedures are just fun.
 
This is on old thread, but I wanted to add my two cents.

Whenever people ask about anesthesia being boring I think two things.

1. No job is ever 100% never boring. Anesthesia is one of them. I am bored sometimes, but it is a very tolerable boring - if you know what I mean. At least I am sitting down.

2. What is really boring to me, and many other people but they just won't admit it, is listening to a different person complain every 10 to 15 minutes, then me having to document the whole meeting, and do it again - and I have to do this from 8 to 5 every day, writing scripts, listening to endless complaints about stuff that I really have no idea but make crap up just so the patient will think their rash is going to be fine. This is very boring to me. How boring is adjusting blood pressure and cholesterol medicine?
 
wait until third year of med school where it will all become clear. for me, boring was IM rounds that began at 5 am, pre-rounds at 4 am, endless discussions of some elaborate differential diagnosis of diseases that the patient doesn't have because all my patients could be boiled down to assessment = ____________________ secondary to non-compliance. then endless visits to radiology, pathology, check the ER for brewing possible admissions, the dreaded over head pages to the ER for new admissions...until 6 or 7 pm. dragging myself home to bed to wake up and do it again the next day....for 6 or 7 days out of the week.... now that was boring. its not like "House"
 
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