Israel OKs 1,600 new homes in east Jerusalem

[CYP4a]

Hey guys,

This is kind of related to the paper on Sux use and the Mossad hit. If the land in E. Jerusalem that was annexed by Israel in the 1967 war is not internationally recognized and the neighborhoods are widely seen as settlements then why does the international community not do anything about it? It seems that this wouldn't fly anywhere else. What is the reasoning? Camel, CF DAVID???

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[Planktonmd]

Hey guys,

This is kind of related to the paper on Sux use and the Mossad hit. If the land in E. Jerusalem that was annexed by Israel in the 1967 war is not internationally recognized and the neighborhoods are widely seen as settlements then why does the international community not do anything about it? It seems that this wouldn't fly anywhere else. What is the reasoning? Camel, CF DAVID???

History proved repeatedly that "the international community" is actually a joke and that it was never able to prevent injustice.
Do you know how many security counsel resolutions have been issued against Israel since 1947?
Roughly 220 resolutions!
Here is the list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

 

[cfdavid]

Hey guys,

This is kind of related to the paper on Sux use and the Mossad hit. If the land in E. Jerusalem that was annexed by Israel in the 1967 war is not internationally recognized and the neighborhoods are widely seen as settlements then why does the international community not do anything about it? It seems that this wouldn't fly anywhere else. What is the reasoning? Camel, CF DAVID???

It comes down to Israeli policy in terms of what they do in country, and what they feel they can get away with.

Relative to the U.S. not paying much more than lip-service to these issues is, in large part, because of the lobbying success of groups like AIPAC, here in the U.S. These are the organizations that Dr. Doze just made financial contributions to (and claims that he has in the past).

For a bit more understanding on the impact of such lobbies on U.S. foreign and economic policy, I'll refer you to the following paper written by a couple of Harvard and University of Chicago professors.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

They subsequently wrote an entire book on the matter, which is widely available.

http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268168793&sr=8-1

Certain things are "controversial", but stealing another people's land in what amounts to ethnic cleansing of certain geographic locations is not one of them.

 

[yasha83]

It comes down to Israeli policy in terms of what they do in country, and what they feel they can get away with.

Relative to the U.S. not paying much more than lip-service to these issues is, in large part, because of the lobbying success of groups like AIPAC, here in the U.S. These are the organizations that Dr. Doze just made financial contributions to (and claims that he has in the past).

For a bit more understanding on the impact of such lobbies on U.S. foreign and economic policy, I'll refer you to the following paper written by a couple of Harvard and University of Chicago professors.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

They subsequently wrote an entire book on the matter, which is widely available.

http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268168793&sr=8-1

Certain things are "controversial", but stealing another people's land in what amounts to ethnic cleansing of certain geographic locations is not one of them.

I applaud you for not including the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a link, this time.

 

[Planktonmd]

I applaud you for not including the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a link, this time.

If you are interested in reading the Protocols you can just do a google search.
You don't need him to give you the link.

 

[cfdavid]

I applaud you for not including the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a link, this time.

Wrong guy, but I'm not going to get suckered into another thread that you just want closed anyway.

 

[deleted126335]

Certain things are "controversial", but stealing another people's land in what amounts to ethnic cleansing of certain geographic locations is not one of them.

There are four wars being fought simultaneously:

1. An Israeli war for the security of Israel of Israel within pre 1967 borders.

2. An Israeli war for for Greater Israel- the settlements and the occupied territories.

3. A Palestinian war to destroy the state of Israel

4. A Palestinian war for an independent state alongside Israel in the West Bank and Gaza and ending the occupation.

For most Palestinians achieving #3 has been more important than #4. The proof is that they could have achieved #3 in 1948 and in 2000 without firing a shot.Yet these opportunities were not accepted because they would have left Israel intact as a Jewish state.

Historically #1 has been far more important than #2 to Israelis. The proof is multiple offers over the years to return the occupied territories for full peace and recognition which has been repeatedly rebuffed.


SInce the failure of the Taba peace talks, the second intifada, the suicide bombings Israelis have come to believe that #1 is not an attainable goal, so it is better to fight #2.

In short, more Israelis have come to believe that it is better to have no peace and all of the land than no peace and some of the land.

BTW history is replete with people "stealing" other peoples land. Winners write the history books. Take a look at old maps some time.

 

[Planktonmd]

BTW history is replete with people "stealing" other peoples land. Winners write the history books. Take a look at old maps some time.

This is a very accurate statement and it actually answers the OP's question.
People who have military power, nuclear weapons, and money write history.
This is why the "international community" is not going to do anything to protect the Palestinians.
All the other stuff you said is propaganda that can be found on any pro zionist web site.

 

[yasha83]

Wrong guy, but I'm not going to get suckered into another thread that you just want closed anyway.

I have no desire one way or the other to see this thread closed, since I have enough self-control to not flame people on a somewhat-anonymous forum who happen to have dissenting points of view from myself. That is something you were unable to do in the previous thread, and your initially reasonable argument there took on water as you devolved into juvenile personal attacks and propaganda. Even in in your initial post in this thread, you couldn't help but call out Dr Doze for his own personal beliefs when he did nothing to provoke you, again no suckering was necessary, you do fine on your own.

 

[deleted126335]

This is a very accurate statement and it actually answers the OP's question.
People who have military power, nuclear weapons, and money write history.
This is why the "international community" is not going to do anything to protect the Palestinians.
All the other stuff you said is propaganda that can be found on any pro zionist web site.

What to you is propaganda are facts to me.

BTW to most of the international community the only thing that Palestinians are good for is fighting Israelis, and photographed losing.

Take a look some time at how Palestinians are treated in the rest of the Arab world.

 

[Planktonmd]

Take a look some time at how Palestinians are treated in the rest of the Arab world.

You are right, no one likes refugees.
Being born and raised in a refugee camp because some one chosen by god stole your house changes you, it makes you an undesirable refugee.
It happened to many people other than Palestinians throughout history, many people were forced to become refugees and as a result they were treated as subhumans and undesirables.
Do I need to give you examples?

 

[cfdavid]

This is a very accurate statement and it actually answers the OP's question.
People who have military power, nuclear weapons, and money write history.
This is why the "international community" is not going to do anything to protect the Palestinians.
All the other stuff you said is propaganda that can be found on any pro zionist web site.

Agreed on all points.

It's also why we must constantly revisit the history books to make sure that those "winners that write the books" didn't do so in a way that does not reflect the actual reality of that period, thereby leaving the less critically thinking amongst us to take "conventional wisdom" as fact.

 

[cfdavid]

I have no desire one way or the other to see this thread closed, since I have enough self-control to not flame people on a somewhat-anonymous forum who happen to have dissenting points of view from myself. That is something you were unable to do in the previous thread, and your initially reasonable argument there took on water as you devolved into juvenile personal attacks and propaganda. Even in in your initial post in this thread, you couldn't help but call out Dr Doze for his own personal beliefs when he did nothing to provoke you, again no suckering was necessary, you do fine on your own.

You refer to propaganda in this particular topic and others like it.
What you fail to admit (I think you know this intuitively) is the fact that the propaganda is so severely one-sided, which is generally why I like to expose others to dissenting points of view on these issues, so as not to take the "writers of the history books" at face value.

As for Doze and his beliefs, he's slandered me as an anti-semite. It's my belief that his views on these issues are not only extreme, but also a big part of the problem. So, I merely mentioned that some of his favorite political PACs are the same PACs that are mentioned in the Mearsheimer and Walt paper and book.

 

[deleted126335]

You are right, no one likes refugees.
Being born and raised in a refugee camp because some one chosen by god stole your house changes you, it makes you an undesirable refugee.
It happened to many people other than Palestinians throughout history, many people were forced to become refugees and as a result they were treated as subhumans and undesirables.
Do I need to give you examples?

Doesn't every religion believe that their beliefs are "most correct"?

Or does Jewish success throughout history in multiple societies despite adversity burn your ass that much?

Funny I don't remember a lot of german churches or restaurants or school buses torched in the aftermath of world war 2 by jews. I don't remember reading about those incidents happening in Poland or Russia either.

 

[deleted126335]

You refer to propaganda in this particular topic and others like it.
What you fail to admit (I think you know this intuitively) is the fact that the propaganda is so severely one-sided, which is generally why I like to expose others to dissenting points of view on these issues, so as not to take the "writers of the history books" at face value.

As for Doze and his beliefs, he's slandered me as an anti-semite. It's my belief that his views on these issues are not only extreme, but also a big part of the problem. So, I merely mentioned that some of his favorite political PACs are the same PACs that are mentioned in the Mearsheimer and Walt paper and book.

The truth is a complete defense for slander.

Extreme would be The Israeli government adopting policies towards the Palestinians that the duly elected representatives of the Palestinians (HAMAS) have toward Israelis.

 

[cfdavid]

The truth is a complete defense for slander.

Extreme would be The Israeli government adopting policies towards the Palestinians that the duly elected representatives of the Palestinians (HAMAS) have toward Israelis.

I really don't care what you think, quite frankly.

Regarding HAMAS, we all know what types of governments get elected when people are desparate and lose hope. This was the scenario in 1930's Germany, and guess who the people elected.......

 

[deleted126335]

I really don't care what you think, quite frankly.

Regarding HAMAS, we all know what types of governments get elected when people are desparate and lose hope. This was the scenario in 1930's Germany, and guess who the people elected.......

If that were true then you wouldn't respond. I do care what people like you and Plank think and say so I do respond and vote and donate to organizations that think differently.

 

[cfdavid]

Doesn't every religion believe that their beliefs are "most correct"?

Or does Jewish success throughout history in multiple societies despite adversity burn your ass that much?

Funny I don't remember a lot of german churches or restaurants or school buses torched in the aftermath of world war 2 by jews. I don't remember reading about those incidents happening in Poland or Russia either.

No, the vitriol is a bit more subtle. It comes in the form of blond hair/blue eyed (i.e. Germanic looking) villains in Hollywood. It comes in sadistic movies produced by Jews (just stating the facts) which depict German prisoners of war being bludgeoned with baseball bats and scalped in movies like Inglorious Basterds.....

It also comes in the form of a never ending stream of lawsuits against companies having anything to do with the German war movement (or not), which have amounted to billions of dollars over the years.

A different kind of "revenge", but revenge nontheless.

 

[Planktonmd]

If that were true then you wouldn't respond. I do care what people like you and Plank think and say so I do respond and vote and donate to organizations that think differently.

for the record and before this thread gets closed: I have nothing against any religion or belief system, and I never hated or liked anyone based on the way they worship whatever it is they want to worship.
This whole discussion has nothing to do (in my opinion at least) with religion, color or race.
But it is always the case with some people, whenever they have nothing to say their preferred strategy is to accuse others of hating them for their religion or race.
It's a very easy way out of every challenge.

 

[deleted126335]

for the record and before this thread gets closed: I have nothing against any religion or belief system, and I never hated or liked anyone based on the way they worship whatever it is they want to worship.
This whole discussion has nothing to do (in my opinion at least) with religion, color or race.
But it is always the case with some people, whenever they have nothing to say their preferred strategy is to accuse others of hating them for their religion or race.
It's a very easy way out of every challenge.

Says the man who previously cited the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

 

[Planktonmd]

Says the man who previously cited the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

I never said that the protocols of Zion had anything to do with Judaism.
You are the one who assumed that this is what I meant and got upset!
I wonder why???

 

[EternalMD]

another announcement of new homes and settlements?? i'm shocked

 

[IN2B8R]

If that were true then you wouldn't respond. I do care what people like you and Plank think and say so I do respond and vote and donate to organizations that think differently.

Dr. doze: here, let me stir your pot a little: no self respecting American gives a flyin' f*ck to what zionist entity you donate money to Just wanted to say that to you before this thread closes....

 

[deleted126335]

I never said that the protocols of Zion had anything to do with Judaism.
You are the one who assumed that this is what I meant and got upset!
I wonder why???

Because that "book" has been a "justification" of antisemitism. THAT'S WHY.

 

[deleted126335]

Dr. doze: here, let me stir your pot a little: no self respecting American gives a flyin' f*ck to what zionist entity you donate money to Just wanted to say that to you before this thread closes....

Actually I think that one or two people do. Hence the reference to those types of organizations multiple times.

 

[IN2B8R]

Actually I think that one or two people do. Hence the reference to those types of organizations multiple times.

No, really, man, no one gives a **** or two...

 

[deleted126335]

No, really, man, no one gives a **** or two...

No, man you might want to review the three threads related to Israel, jewish influence and lobbying including this one. Some people do care which is why I chose to stir their pots make additional donations.

 

[IN2B8R]

No, man you might want to review the three threads related to Israel, jewish influence and lobbying including this one. Some people do care which is why I chose to stir their pots make additional donations.

Well, then, since you are in a such a damn good giving mood, I'll send you my bank account number where you can donate some of your good money to me. I love Israeli's and absolutely, positively hate all Palestinians

 

[EternalMD]

No, man you might want to review the three threads related to Israel, jewish influence and lobbying including this one. Some people do care which is why I chose to stir their pots make additional donations.

jews giving away money?? surely you are kidding

 

[cfdavid]

No, man you might want to review the three threads related to Israel, jewish influence and lobbying including this one. Some people do care which is why I chose to stir their pots make additional donations.

The fact that you have, and continue, to donate to those organizations is only important to me in so much as it confirms that, while you may believe I'm an anti-semite (and have reiterated said belief on this thread), I believe you to be a Jewish extremist.

And while I'm writing, I'll state in no uncertain terms (like Plank did) that I do not, and have never, hated anyone based upon their race or religion. In fact, I don't consider myself to HATE anyone.

I do, however, dislike extremists of all varieties and just as you like to "stir" my pot, I enjoy posting credible references that counter your beliefs and the beliefs of the organizations that are apparently so dear to your heart.

Now let's end this tit-for-tat, and let the OP and others that may be interested in this topic read from the various sources already linked, and which have quite a bit to do with the OPs question.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I am locking this thread before it degenerates furthur. I understand that a few of you have very strong opinions about this sort of subject but there is no sense arguing the same stuff OVER and OVER again.

I suggest either taking this to PM's or discussing these issues in an unmoderated forum.

Closing.