Issues with my general chemistry teacher

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LawNonTrad

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I'm currently taking gen chem II at my community college and it ends next week. I took gen chem I during the prior five-week session and received an A.

Right now I'm struggling a bit in gen chem II although still in okay shape I guess. Here's the grading breakdown for the course:

Standard calculation:
Unannounced quizzes = 10%
3 exams = 45%
Comprehensive final = 25%
Laboratory = 20%

If Final Exam is better than our lowest exam grade:
Unannounced quizzes = 10%
2 best exams = 30%
Comprehensive final = 40%
Laboratory = 20%

If we miss an exam, the syllabus says that no make-ups will be given and the average of the other two exams will be used to replace the missing hour exam grade.

No exams or quizzes are curved.

Good.
We have 8-10 unannounced quizzes during the 5 week course and the prof drops our lowest two.
That's REALLY heavy on the exam dropping. Your prof, if anything, is being TOO nice.
The quizzes are open-book and are thus composed of far tougher questions than on exams.
...and you're complaining?
So far my quiz grades are 100, 60, 60, 60. Exams are given every Thursday including the last Thursday (final) Each exam is 50% multiple choice and 50% long answer. My first exam on thermodynamics and kinetics grade was a 103 (47.5 points from multiple choice plus 50 points long answer + 5 points for bonus question) and my second exam on chemical and ionic equilibrium was a 74.

I have some gripes about this course, however, and I feel that at least some of them are warranted. Many of my coursemates share these gripes:

The first and perhaps the most egregious example of unfairness in this course is the fact that two students were allowed to take a make-up exam for chemical and ionic equilibrium. This is actually the reason that the professor didn't return our equilibrium exams today. The prof told us that two students who weren't here last Thursday would be taking the equilibrium exam after class today and so the exams would not be returned to us until tomorrow. When I heard this in class today, I was pretty sure that make-up exams were not allowed in this course. Upon my return home, I dug around on my bedroom floor for the chem II syllabus handed out the first day of class, and it says in bold print and capital letters "NO MAKE-UP EXAMS WILL BE GIVEN - if you fail to take an hour exam, the average of the other two hour exams will be used to replace the missing hour exam grade."

That leads me into another point. The students who took the exam today received a tremendous advantage over the other 28 of us who took the exam on Thursday. They had three times as much time to study some of the material. How? Because we didn't finish ionic equilibrium material until last Tuesday afternoon and the exam was on Thursday morning. The two students who took make-up exam today had Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday to study for this exam as well. I don't know what reason the students gave for obtaining a make-up but it doesn't really matter. A no makeup policy means no make-ups. I know that I didn't feel great on Thursday morning but I still took the exam. I would have liked to have been able to take the exam on Monday afternoon (today) when I felt my best but I was relying on the syllabus which told us that there were NO make-ups. Additionally, the professor told us that he couldn't return our exams because of the make-ups; in other words, he was giving these two students the same exam that he had given us. The students have friends in the course and giving the same exam 4 days later leads to the possibility of these students having an additional unfair advantage taking the exam 4 days later.
Honestly, it's the professor's prerogative to make exceptions to policy. If you feel it was unfair, talk to the prof. If you still feel it is unresolved, speak with the chair (then dean, etc.)
That's all I have to say about the make-up really. I have a couple other gripes as well though.

First, the quizzes are supposed to help reinforce the material for our exams. The professor said that they are the best possible source for studying because exam questions are similar and that's why we will have them in our possession to study for exams. Well, we took the equilibrium quiz two weeks ago this Wednesday, and the professor didn't have it back to us a week later last Wednesday, so we weren't able to use it to study for the exam. We still haven't gotten that quiz back actually. This undoubtedly hurt the class average considerably. I think the class avg was about a 68 judging from what the professor said (although I will find out for sure tomorrow). This is down from an 84 average on the first exam. And he won't curve.
ok...? and your point is...? The entire class was hurt equally by this. Your previous complaint was definitely one of unfairness but in this case, it's something that, honestly, is quite acceptable in accelerated (i.e., summer) courses. The prof probably hasn't had time to get everything grade. Personally, I just live with that sort of thing. Life's like that.
There has also been at least one quiz (that I bombed with a 60) that the professor misled us about. He told us that there would be a quiz the following day (which he doesn't have to do, because the syllabus said they'll be unannounced) so we should be ready for it. I asked him after class (in front of two fellow students) what the quiz would be on, and he said thermochemistry only. Well lo and behold, we walk into class the next day, and the quiz is half thermochemistry and half kinetics. Now I wouldn't have had a problem with studying thermochemistry and kinetics had he told us it would be on both or simply to study everything, but I relied on his information and only studied thermochemistry.
Nothing is ever off-limits that you have learned. Keep that in mind. If you had already studied kinetics when you got to thermo, kinetics is fair game regardless of what the prof thought of at the moment you asked. The prof may have forgotten some of what was on the quiz or not written yet. It's fair game unless the whole class is told something and it is always acceptable to test on topics already covered (esp. in relationship to current topics of study).
There is also one other matter that I feel should be mentioned. There is a student in my chemistry lecture that we disaffectionately refer to as question girl. Since the first day of class three weeks ago, she has asked an average of 37.34 questions per 2 hour class session. I'm not kidding. There are only about 40-42 questions asked per class so 1 student out of 30 is asking over 90% of the questions. At least two people in the class keep track and we have pools about it. She obviously is not prepared for gen chem II but the most offensive part of the questions is how pointless some of them are. We will be working problems in class, and a typical question/answer session for her consists of something like this:

Question: Where did you get the oxidation state of sulfur from
Professor: From the problem.
Question: Ah, okay, yeah, so is it always -2?
Professor: No, it varies depending on what the problem gives you and what the sulfur is bonded with.
Question: No, I know what you're saying, but I'm just wondering if there's some hard and fast rule that I can memorize about these oxidation states.
Professor(growing a little impatient): No, you just have to look at the problem and it will either explicitly give it to you or you can determine it from the other things in the compound.

Now keep in mind that this is actually gen chem I material and we're using it in gen chem II to do other things like redox reactions, so she really shouldn't be asking about it.

But every time she asks a question like this, not only do I die a little inside, but my concentration is also thrown. Most everyone in the class feels the same way about question girl. The professor also typically loses his concentration and we end up only getting through about 80% of the material that he planned to get through. This leaves us only 1-2 days sometimes to study new material for exams when the professor had budgeted 3 days.


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That said, how do I approach these issues with the professor? I feel like the mentality of the professors at this community college is that the goal is for students to get a C in the class so they can transfer it out, and their goal is to get as many students as possible as C or above. Well that's not my goal. I'm trying to get into medical school, so I need A's. Not C's, not B+'s, not even A'-s. And I should point out that I still think I can get an A in this course. As long as I get like a 90 on this next exam and an 85 on the final then I'm still in A range.
A "C" is average. Who cares that you hope to go to med school? Who really gives a rat's a**?! Seriously. The fact that you need an "A" is irrelevant. The prof isn't there to get you into med school. He's there to teach you chemistry. If you aren't performing at an "A" level, you shouldn't get an "A." Period. ("A" students, btw, will get "A"s regardless of the instructor. A poor instructor can't easily hold back a high-achieving student because those students tend to rise to the challenge. I have little sympathy for people who seem to feel entitled to an "A." In my classes, I tend to, if anything, ensure they don't get an "A.")
There is at least one other student who is upset as I am about these problems so I'm looking for a good way to approach these issues with the professor. I'm not looking to the professor for a future recommendation so I don't really care if he gets upset or not (although he generally has a pretty easygoing personality, so I'm not too worried anyway).
Honestly... the only complaint of yours that is of much validity other than the annoying girl in the class (and that's just life, so live w/ it...some people are annoying) is the one concerning some people getting special exemptions from syllabus guidelines. Honestly, though, that's kind of a privilege the professor possesses. It's his right to make an exception if he feels it is warranted.
 
no excuses. its community college.
 
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There will always be professors that students think are bad/unfair and will complain about it.

The simple truth is that is never going to stop and you need to learn to deal with "bad" professors. It's not like medical school will be an exception to that. I would not complain unless something seems really unfair, and what you have mentioned does not seem outrageous.

You said that you are in a good position to get an A. Just get the A and move on.
 
Apumic,

Thanks for the response. Your attitude seems to be that even if the professor contradicts something that he has clearly said, that it's still acceptable, because, well, he's the professor.

Would it be acceptable if the professor had given us exam #2 entirely on kinetics and thermochemistry when that was what exam #1 covered and the following subjects were chemical and ionic equilibrium? According to your post, it would be fair, because we're responsible for everything we learn up to that point and the professor is free to tell us one thing and then do another.

You also said it was the professor's prerogative to make exceptions to policy. How? The syllabus he handed us stated that there would be NO make-ups. It didn't have a special circumstances clause (like if you got poopfaced the night before and were hungover, of ir your pet cockatiel died), it says clearly that there are no make-ups. By giving the two students make-up exams, that affected the rest of the class negatively.

Regarding the fact that he didn't return the quiz to us before the exam, two students in class asked him on Monday and Tuesday of that week if he would be giving us that quiz back before the exam. On Monday he said yes, we will have it back the following day (Tuesday). On Tuesday he said oh yeah, sorry, he was busy, we will have it back the following day (Wednesday). No one bothered asking on Wednesday because he clearly didn't care. I agree with your point. EVERYONE in the class was equally hurt by it. That only matters if we're on a CURVE. We're not on a curve. What we get is what we get, so I'm not pacified by the fact that everyone was hurt equally. We shouldn't have been hurt.

And like I said, I will probably still get an A regardless. But the idea that even if I do get an A that I have nothing to bitch about is ridiculous. The grade is important to me, yeah, but so are principles. The professor shouldn't be saying one thing and doing another. It's not just about me -- it's about my classmates, even though we probably have different goals and aspirations.

Honestly, I don't know how anyone can think that the make-up exams are not outrageous. He gave us the syllabus the first day which clearly said that make-ups are not allowed. He also reinforced it verbally when he said that the summer session is TOO short to have make-up exams.

Everybody hurt equally? That's why we have curves. Except we don't.
 
Apumic,

Thanks for the response. Your attitude seems to be that even if the professor contradicts something that he has clearly said, that it's still acceptable, because, well, he's the professor.
The reality is that that is somewhat true (i.e., the prof is in charge in his own classroom and it is unlikely anyone "higher up" is going to oppose what he said).
Would it be acceptable if the professor had given us exam #2 entirely on kinetics and thermochemistry when that was what exam #1 covered and the following subjects were chemical and ionic equilibrium? According to your post, it would be fair, because we're responsible for everything we learn up to that point and the professor is free to tell us one thing and then do another.
Sure. You're responsible for everything prior. Courses are cumulative. If the prof feels that to do well in unit 4, unit 3's exam should not be limited to unit 3 topics. It is as much an entry exam for unit 4 as a completion exam for unit 3, therefore it should at least touch on unit 1-2 topics. This is especially true since thermodynamics (part of thermochemistry) and kinetics have quite a bit in common, therefore it is crucial you recall kinetics when studying thermo. I would say this is good practice as it encourages students to integrate their learning.
You also said it was the professor's prerogative to make exceptions to policy. How? The syllabus he handed us stated that there would be NO make-ups. It didn't have a special circumstances clause (like if you got poopfaced the night before and were hungover, of ir your pet cockatiel died), it says clearly that there are no make-ups. By giving the two students make-up exams, that affected the rest of the class negatively.

Regarding the fact that he didn't return the quiz to us before the exam, two students in class asked him on Monday and Tuesday of that week if he would be giving us that quiz back before the exam. On Monday he said yes, we will have it back the following day (Tuesday). On Tuesday he said oh yeah, sorry, he was busy, we will have it back the following day (Wednesday). No one bothered asking on Wednesday because he clearly didn't care. I agree with your point. EVERYONE in the class was equally hurt by it. That only matters if we're on a CURVE. We're not on a curve. What we get is what we get, so I'm not pacified by the fact that everyone was hurt equally. We shouldn't have been hurt.

And like I said, I will probably still get an A regardless. But the idea that even if I do get an A that I have nothing to bitch about is ridiculous. The grade is important to me, yeah, but so are principles. The professor shouldn't be saying one thing and doing another. It's not just about me -- it's about my classmates, even though we probably have different goals and aspirations.

Honestly, I don't know how anyone can think that the make-up exams are not outrageous. He gave us the syllabus the first day which clearly said that make-ups are not allowed. He also reinforced it verbally when he said that the summer session is TOO short to have make-up exams.

Everybody hurt equally? That's why we have curves. Except we don't.

Fair enough. You obviously feel pretty strongly about this, so go and talk w/ your prof. That is your right. If you approach is calmly and with well-reasoned points as you have here, then I think you may at least get listened to respectfully, although I don't know what kinds of changes you might expect at this point. Best of luck!
 
okay, first off, because i guess i can come off harsh, is that i feel for you.

however...
your grades should be a testament of you versus the material, not based on the other students' performance.

i think you should go to office hours (you haven't mentioned it). with what happened on the thermo/kinetics quiz, i'm not surprised. many teachers get annoyed when students just sit there going, "ok, what do i really need to know" or "is ______ going to be on the exam" or "do we need to know _______." you are solely responsible for knowing the material presented in class. these term classes are moving along pretty quickly, i'm feeling the burn too. i decided the pace is going to prepare me for med school/the good old firehouse ;)

and i disagree about the prof's attitude that he just wants the students to get a c. i found that my professors at CC enjoyed those classes more than when they taught (same professors at both schools) at my main school, because for the most part, the people there really value their education and are making a lot of sacrifices to pursue it.

nine words:
take a deep breath
and just
play the game
 
That only matters if we're on a CURVE. We're not on a curve. What we get is what we get, so I'm not pacified by the fact that everyone was hurt equally. We shouldn't have been hurt.

... important to me, yeah, but so are principles.

okay, i'm confused: if you are not on the curve, then how was everyone else hurt? it seems like you are utterly unaffected [grade-wise, not emotionally] by them taking a retake. i am positive that if you had a family emergency or what ever reason you find valid to miss an exam, you would really appreciate if this professor made an exception for you.

in the grand scheme of things, two people taking a make-up is irrelevant. pick your battles in life, you'll be happier.
 
The reality is that that is somewhat true (i.e., the prof is in charge in his own classroom and it is unlikely anyone "higher up" is going to oppose what he said). Sure. You're responsible for everything prior. Courses are cumulative. If the prof feels that to do well in unit 4, unit 3's exam should not be limited to unit 3 topics. It is as much an entry exam for unit 4 as a completion exam for unit 3, therefore it should at least touch on unit 1-2 topics. This is especially true since thermodynamics (part of thermochemistry) and kinetics have quite a bit in common, therefore it is crucial you recall kinetics when studying thermo. I would say this is good practice as it encourages students to integrate their learning.

Fair enough. You obviously feel pretty strongly about this, so go and talk w/ your prof. That is your right. If you approach is calmly and with well-reasoned points as you have here, then I think you may at least get listened to respectfully, although I don't know what kinds of changes you might expect at this point. Best of luck!

Thanks. We actually studied thermo BEFORE kinetics however. Thermo was unit 1 and kinetics was unit 2.

I do feel strongly about it. Sorry if I'm getting amped up and if anything I said was rude but I have strong views about fairness and it just struck me as B.S. As another kid in the class put it to me after, these two students who took the make-up got 2 bites at the apple. IN other words, not only did they get to take the exam 4 days later than everyone else, but if they're happy with their score on the equilibrium exam, then they can skip the third exam and simply have their scores averaged. That's the larger point I wanted to get at here, apumic. The score averaging in lieu of a make-up. I didn't feel great (physically or mentally) going into exam 2 and I'm sure a lot of people didn't. But I still took exam 2, DESPITE it being in my best interest to probably not take exam 2 on equilibrium. Why? Because of the averaging scores rule. If you miss an exam, the professor averages the scores of your other two. Well I received a 103 on exam 1, which was a 2 chapter test. I received a 74 on exam 2, which was a 4 chapter test. Exam 3, another 2 chapter test (this time on electrochemistry) is coming up this Thursday.

I would have been better off skipping exam 2 and simply pulling a 90+ on the far easier exam 3 (far less material). But I didn't, because I thought I had at least a decent grasp of it as well as the fact that if I was throwing up in bed sick on Thursday or my car died or something else extreme happened, I wouldn't be stuck with a 0 on one of the three hourly exams and a 52 exam avg (103 on exam 1, 0 on exam 2(skipped), and now 0 on exam 3). The two students who took the make-up exam are both intelligent students. One of them matched my 103 on the first exam. The other got a 95 or 100 from what I remember her saying. They knew what they were doing when they skipped Thursday's exam and e-mailed the professor to request a make-up. Those extra 4 days of study clearly benefited them. They knew they were safe because if the professor denied their make-up request, hey no skin off their backs. They could simply take their 0 for skipped exam #2 and study for the third exam this Thursday and the average of their exam #1 and #3 scores would replace the 0 for exam #2. Fortunately for them, the professor acceded to their request, and now assuming they did well on this equilibrium test (with 4 extra days to study compared to everyone else in the class, how could they not), they are free to skip exam #3 this week and start studying for the final. My, that sounds nice.

Regarding this statement of yours:

although I don't know what kinds of changes you might expect at this point.

I can think of a couple of things. Given the fact that the make-up students had four extra days to study for it and were allowed make-ups despite the fact that he explicitly they were NOT allowed, give everyone else the opportunity to take the avg of their exam 1 and exam 3 scores to replace their exam 2 score if it would result in a higher average than keeping the exam 2 score. That's the same opportunity they would have had had they decided to SKIP exam #2 as these make-up students did. That seems like the fairest outcome. Refusing to do something like this would cement the advantage that these two make-up students gained over everyone else in the class and encourage people to skip this Thursday's exam and go grab a doctor's note saying that they don't feel well today but will feel better on Monday. Even though electrochemistry is only 2 chapters, I'd obviously do better on the exam with an extra 4 days to study for it.
 
Ugh, I'm sick of people like this. Listen, OP. You've been outright coddled for most of your academic career, from the sounds of it, and now you're just upset that the teacher isn't adapting the course to make it easier for you. It is not the teacher's prerogative to ensure that 15% of the class gets an A, 20% gets Bs, 40% gets Cs, and everyone else gets lower. It happens a lot, sure. But he doesn't have to do that.

What your professor's job is, my friend, is to educate you and test how much of his material you understand, retain, and utilize. It may be that only 5% of your class gets As, and you know what? That's completely fine. Your professor will have done his job. I'll bet that 5% will know the material very well and will retain it better than the 95% who couldn't manage an A.

"A" students, btw, will get "A"s regardless of the instructor. A poor instructor can't easily hold back a high-achieving student because those students tend to rise to the challenge.

Apumic is right here. In fact, Apumic's entire response to your post was reasonable, on-point, and truthful. If you ARE an "A" student, you will be able to get an "A" grade, unless there are extenuating circumstances like illnesses or family emergencies. These people realize something that you apparently have not grasped:

NEVER RELY ON A CURVE.

They also realize that they need to study effectively and retain all relevant information in a course. This means that they go through the information and prioritize it effectively. Concepts and key equations is the thing - once those are down, it's just a matter of practice, practice, practice. That way, they're prepared for that unit's material, whether it's to integrate it into something new (i.e. enthalpy being used in spontaneity or oxidation states in electrochemistry) or, yes, to utilize it in a pop quiz.

I'm taking an accelerated course, same as you. For me, it's biology. Three quizzes a week, one midterm, and one final. I finished the first part last week, and I got an uncurved A, no problem. I fully intend to do so again for this part, despite having a professor who is widely regarded as the most difficult biology instructor at our school.

So what I'm saying here is that your professor's methods may seem 'unfair' to you, but they're not. They're just not what you're used to. If he's not required to warn you for these tests of his, why should he have to tell you what all they're about? If he's giving you all the material you need, why should he curve his exams? If his students are averaging low percentages, that's their problem, not his.

Stop complaining and put some more effort into your schoolwork, kiddo. No matter how you whine, it's not going to study itself.
 
okay, i'm confused: if you are not on the curve, then how was everyone else hurt? it seems like you are utterly unaffected [grade-wise, not emotionally] by them taking a retake. i am positive that if you had a family emergency or what ever reason you find valid to miss an exam, you would really appreciate if this professor made an exception for you.

in the grand scheme of things, two people taking a make-up is irrelevant. pick your battles in life, you'll be happier.

What are the odds of two people out of 30 having a family emergency that precludes them from taking an exam on exam day? I'll give you that it's >0%, but it's not very high.

You're right that there isn't a curve, but everyone else is hurt by them. Not because our grades were directly impacted by the allowance made for them, but because we didn't have the same opportunity that they had (4 extra days to study). I wouldn't have a problem with it if the syllabus and the professor had said something like "make-ups will only be given in extreme circumstances, i.e. family death or extreme illness documented by doctor note." He didn't say that and the syllabus didn't say it either. He said that we can't do make-ups in the summer session because of the scheduling problems so there will be no make-ups. Every student who didn't feel up to par on Thursday would have benefited from skipping the exam and trying to obtain a make-up. 4 extra days to study.

If I had a family emergency that prevents me from being able to take an exam, and the syllabus had language similar to that outlined above (no makeups under any circumstances), then sure I'd be grateful for getting to take it. But it wouldn't be fair to my classmates. It wouldn't be wrong of them to point out that the appropriate thing to do would be to follow the syllabus and average my other two grades. If I miss TWO exams due to emergencies then I could reason having a make-up, but with the syllabus already making an allowance for one missed exam (by averaging the other two), I think it is unfair and ridiculous. It is a summer course after all (5 weeks).

Syllabi are given out for a reason. If the professor needs to amend it, he amends it and passes it out again. if the professor can just do what he wants with no accountability, then why even have a syllabus? Just pass out a piece of paper with four words: "What I say goes."
 
Janieve,

If you read my post you would see that my main gripe is the b.s. make-up policy and not the lack of a curve.
 
You've wasted a lot of time on here which you could have used to study to get an A. My advice, stop wasting time.

Btw most community college science courses have no curve and are usually over complicated. This is at least at the community college by my house due to the fact that they are mostly students within the science scholars program which is more difficult to get into them half the universities in my state ( 3.5/1780 averages) and designed to be challenging along with free for those scholars. Just my 2 cents.
 
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God, STOP crying. Seriously. Judging by your username, LawNONTRAD, I'm assuming you are older than the average student taking gen chem. However, you are obviously NOT any more mature. Stop crying about a stupid syllabus and the fact that the prof. allowed exceptions (for probably good reasons. reasons that you are only assuming to be trivial). Like Seven of Nine said, if YOU had some sort of emergency - I'm sure you would have been extremely grateful the prof. allowed YOU a makeup and would NOT have said "oh but the syllabus says you don't give any makeups, so you don't have to let me make this exam up because my middle name is Principles."

Seriously though, like apumic said, if in the end you really deserve the A, you will get the A. For the meantime though, stop *****ing about a syllabus on an online forum/sounding like an 11 yo girl and maybe pick up, open, and read your textbook so you don't get another 60 on a quiz.
 
Janieve,

If you read my post you would see that my main gripe is the b.s. make-up policy and not the lack of a curve.

I was trying to respond only to your complaints about the professor. Your other topics seem to be primarily with other students - the ones who took the make-up exams and question girl in particular.

In terms of the professor giving a make-up exam to these two students, have you considered why he might have done this? In my biology class, we had two students with disabilities that made it so they needed to take the tests separate from the other students. The professor gave it to them separately. Also, there was a situation in one of my classes last term where a student was found to be stalking a few girls in the class right before the final. Guess what happened then? And let me tell you, when you're in any of those situations, you don't think about studying that much more or getting the answers to the questions.

Those are just situations I've encountered - what about other ones? Perhaps the students who took the make up tests were in a car accident, or perhaps they were family and there was a family emergency. It could be that they didn't have a choice but to miss the exam, and the professor probably has to abide by university rules in terms of allowing them to sit the exam they missed. All it takes most of the time is for the student to talk to the department head and they get to take the test.

And if it's the potential academic dishonesty you're so concerned over, talk to the dean of student affairs or schedule a meeting with your professor to address your concerns. Okay? You're presumably a mature person, underneath all that bitchiness. Deal with it the mature way.
 
In terms of the professor giving a make-up exam to these two students, have you considered why he might have done this? In my biology class, we had two students with disabilities that made it so they needed to take the tests separate from the other students. The professor gave it to them separately.

I have two documented learning disabilities so you don't want to go down this road. I had extra time all through middle and high school and am taken the exams under regular conditions now. I'm sure that these students don't have disabilities, however, because they were taking exam 1 with us at the normal place and time. Maybe they need special accommodations for equilibrium problems but not for thermochemistry/kinetics? I find that hard to believe.

Also, there was a situation in one of my classes last term where a student was found to be stalking a few girls in the class right before the final. Guess what happened then? And let me tell you, when you're in any of those situations, you don't think about studying that much more or getting the answers to the questions.

No exceptions to me means no exceptions. What you describe is horrible and if I were teaching this course I would have a make-up policy and would let these students take one. But the professor told us that there were no make-ups. I really don't think it's a coincidence that they were sick on the day that the toughest exam of the 5 week session was held.

Those are just situations I've encountered - what about other ones? Perhaps the students who took the make up tests were in a car accident, or perhaps they were family and there was a family emergency.

Perhaps they were. But with two unrelated students?

It could be that they didn't have a choice but to miss the exam, and the professor probably has to abide by university rules in terms of allowing them to sit the exam they missed. All it takes most of the time is for the student to talk to the department head and they get to take the test.

It's department policy not to give make-ups during summer sessions, so...

And if it's the potential academic dishonesty you're so concerned over, talk to the dean of student affairs or schedule a meeting with your professor to address your concerns. Okay? You're presumably a mature person, underneath all that bitchiness. Deal with it the mature way.

That's only a small percentage of it, but the fact remains that they were afforded an opportunity that the rest of us were not. I have a feeling that I won't be feeling well this Thursday. I think I'll need to take the exam on Monday.
 
God, STOP crying. Seriously. Judging by your username, LawNONTRAD, I'm assuming you are older than the average student taking gen chem. However, you are obviously NOT any more mature. Stop crying about a stupid syllabus and the fact that the prof. allowed exceptions (for probably good reasons. reasons that you are only assuming to be trivial).

Syllabi are stupid. Right on broseph premed. Why even have them? Let's abolish them.

Like Seven of Nine said, if YOU had some sort of emergency - I'm sure you would have been extremely grateful the prof. allowed YOU a makeup and would NOT have said "oh but the syllabus says you don't give any makeups, so you don't have to let me make this exam up because my middle name is Principles.

Sure I would have been grateful but I wouldn't have expected it given that it's not in the syllabus, and I wouldn't have been mad had he DENIED my request.

eriously though, like apumic said, if in the end you really deserve the A, you will get the A. For the meantime though, stop *****ing about a syllabus on an online forum/sounding like an 11 yo girl and maybe pick up, open, and read your textbook so you don't get another 60 on a quiz.

You and others joke about these principles and say that it doesn't matter. You're wrong. It does. I don't care if I do get an A. The professor is still lame and breaking rules.

I've been through high school, college and law school and I've never had a professor like this. I've gotten C's in courses before but it didn't bother me because the professor stuck to the syllabus and I didn't do well in the course. It was my fault. I don't blame professors for grades. I've never questioned a professor about a grade or an exam before in my life. I'm not one of those people that gets a 95 on a test and then goes up there and argues with the professor for 15 minutes to try and get two extra points. I accept that I got the questions wrong and move on.

This is different. He violated his own rules and it gave two students an unfair advantage over the rest of us and I do intend on taking it up with people.
 
I'm with the person who said if you're not on a curve, who cares about people making up tests? I locked my keys in the car one time when I stopped at the store on the way to my astronomy final, and I about had a heart attack in a huge, very public parking lot because I thought I'd fail the class. Luckily, I was allowed to take it that afternoon, despite the syllabus.

**** happens. In this situation I wouldn't even look twice at 2 people making up exams. As an AP chem teacher, I can tell you you'd be better off doing practice problems. :thumbup:
 
Now you've wasted 30 more minutes of which could have been used to study.
 
I'm currently taking gen chem II at my community college and it ends next week. I took gen chem I during the prior five-week session and received an A.

Right now I'm struggling a bit in gen chem II although still in okay shape I guess. Here's the grading breakdown for the course:

Standard calculation:
Unannounced quizzes = 10%
3 exams = 45%
Comprehensive final = 25%
Laboratory = 20%

If Final Exam is better than our lowest exam grade:
Unannounced quizzes = 10%
2 best exams = 30%
Comprehensive final = 40%
Laboratory = 20%

If we miss an exam, the syllabus says that no make-ups will be given and the average of the other two exams will be used to replace the missing hour exam grade.

No exams or quizzes are curved.

We have 8-10 unannounced quizzes during the 5 week course and the prof drops our lowest two. The quizzes are open-book and are thus composed of far tougher questions than on exams. So far my quiz grades are 100, 60, 60, 60. Exams are given every Thursday including the last Thursday (final) Each exam is 50% multiple choice and 50% long answer. My first exam on thermodynamics and kinetics grade was a 103 (47.5 points from multiple choice plus 50 points long answer + 5 points for bonus question)(class avg 85) and my second exam on chemical and ionic equilibrium was a 74(27.5 points from multiple choice plus 46 points long answer)(class avg 68).

I have some gripes about this course, however, and I feel that at least some of them are warranted. Many of my coursemates share these gripes:

The first and perhaps the most egregious example of unfairness in this course is the fact that two students were allowed to take a make-up exam for chemical and ionic equilibrium. This is actually the reason that the professor didn't return our equilibrium exams today. The prof told us that two students who weren't here last Thursday would be taking the equilibrium exam after class today and so the exams would not be returned to us until tomorrow. When I heard this in class today, I was pretty sure that make-up exams were not allowed in this course. Upon my return home, I dug around on my bedroom floor for the chem II syllabus handed out the first day of class, and it says in bold print and capital letters "NO MAKE-UP EXAMS WILL BE GIVEN - if you fail to take an hour exam, the average of the other two hour exams will be used to replace the missing hour exam grade."

That leads me into another point. The students who took the exam today received a tremendous advantage over the other 28 of us who took the exam on Thursday. They had three times as much time to study some of the material. How? Because we didn't finish ionic equilibrium material until last Tuesday afternoon and the exam was on Thursday morning. The two students who took make-up exam today had Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday to study for this exam as well. I don't know what reason the students gave for obtaining a make-up but it doesn't really matter. A no makeup policy means no make-ups. I know that I didn't feel great on Thursday morning but I still took the exam. I would have liked to have been able to take the exam on Monday afternoon (today) when I felt my best but I was relying on the syllabus which told us that there were NO make-ups. Additionally, the professor told us that he couldn't return our exams because of the make-ups; in other words, he was giving these two students the same exam that he had given us. The students have friends in the course and giving the same exam 4 days later leads to the possibility of these students having an additional unfair advantage taking the exam 4 days later.

That's all I have to say about the make-up really. I have a couple other gripes as well though.

First, the quizzes are supposed to help reinforce the material for our exams. The professor said that they are the best possible source for studying because exam questions are similar and that's why we will have them in our possession to study for exams. Well, we took the equilibrium quiz two weeks ago this Wednesday, and the professor didn't have it back to us a week later last Wednesday, so we weren't able to use it to study for the exam. We still haven't gotten that quiz back actually. This undoubtedly hurt the class average considerably. I think the class avg was about a 68 judging from what the professor said (although I will find out for sure tomorrow). This is down from an 84 average on the first exam. And he won't curve.

There has also been at least one quiz (that I bombed with a 60) that the professor misled us about. He told us that there would be a quiz the following day (which he doesn't have to do, because the syllabus said they'll be unannounced) so we should be ready for it. I asked him after class (in front of two fellow students) what the quiz would be on, and he said thermochemistry only. Well lo and behold, we walk into class the next day, and the quiz is half thermochemistry and half kinetics. Now I wouldn't have had a problem with studying thermochemistry and kinetics had he told us it would be on both or simply to study everything, but I relied on his information and only studied thermochemistry.

There is also one other matter that I feel should be mentioned. There is a student in my chemistry lecture that we disaffectionately refer to as question girl. Since the first day of class three weeks ago, she has asked an average of 37.34 questions per 2 hour class session. I'm not kidding. There are only about 40-42 questions asked per class so 1 student out of 30 is asking over 90% of the questions. At least two people in the class keep track and we have pools about it. She obviously is not prepared for gen chem II but the most offensive part of the questions is how pointless some of them are. We will be working problems in class, and a typical question/answer session for her consists of something like this:

Question: Where did you get the oxidation state of sulfur from
Professor: From the problem.
Question: Ah, okay, yeah, so is it always -2?
Professor: No, it varies depending on what the problem gives you and what the sulfur is bonded with.
Question: No, I know what you're saying, but I'm just wondering if there's some hard and fast rule that I can memorize about these oxidation states.
Professor(growing a little impatient): No, you just have to look at the problem and it will either explicitly give it to you or you can determine it from the other things in the compound.

Now keep in mind that this is actually gen chem I material and we're using it in gen chem II to do other things like redox reactions, so she really shouldn't be asking about it.

But every time she asks a question like this, not only do I die a little inside, but my concentration is also thrown. Most everyone in the class feels the same way about question girl. The professor also typically loses his concentration and we end up only getting through about 80% of the material that he planned to get through. This leaves us only 1-2 days sometimes to study new material for exams when the professor had budgeted 3 days.


-------

That said, how do I approach these issues with the professor? I feel like the mentality of the professors at this community college is that the goal is for students to get a C in the class so they can transfer it out, and their goal is to get as many students as possible as C or above. Well that's not my goal. I'm trying to get into medical school, so I need A's. Not C's, not B+'s, not even A'-s. And I should point out that I still think I can get an A in this course. As long as I get like a 90 on this next exam and an 85 on the final then I'm still in A range.

There is at least one other student who is upset as I am about these problems AND willing to talk about them so I'm looking for a good way to approach these issues with the professor. I'm not looking to the professor for a future recommendation so I don't really care if he gets upset or not (although he generally has a pretty easygoing personality, so I'm not too worried anyway).

I don't see why you are complaining about this if the class is not curved (i.e. them doing well doesn't hurt you).

The rest of this stuff is just college. You have to deal with people asking a ton of questions, pop quizzes on things you have gone over, and C's being the norm. Keep in mind that a grade of C is for average students; A's are reserved for those who are stand-out students.
 
I don't want to sound harsh but did you ever stop and think that life is not always fair. I had to step into a UC with a bunch of seasoned students that have had a bunch of science classes before in high school and even received tutoring in some of them. I barely graduated from high school lol. first day of g-chem I felt like I was learning a different language. I dealt with it, worked hard, received an A in a class that had an average lower than yours, developed a great relationship with the prof and even got a LOR from him. Lesson: work hard and dont complain ... you should go through your college career believing that noone cares about your problems in college .... your the only advocate you have and your the only person that can help yourself and you do that by working hard and smart. and telling the professor will not help you in any way. believe me.
 
what a weird thread.
 
Syllabi are stupid. Right on broseph premed. Why even have them? Let's abolish them.
U mad, brah? :mad:
Sure I would have been grateful but I wouldn't have expected it given that it's not in the syllabus, and I wouldn't have been mad had he DENIED my request.
What makes you think that the 2 students felt entitled to their make-ups? Did you ask them how they went about asking the prof? Did you ask what the circumstances were? No, on both accounts.
You and others joke about these principles and say that it doesn't matter. You're wrong. It does. I don't care if I do get an A. The professor is still lame and breaking rules.
I'm not "joking" about any principles. Obviously the prof. had a good reason to "break the rules" and give the students a make-up, YOU are just "lame" and not digging deep enough to find out why, and instead ranting on a forum like a child. "WAHHH, they had more time to study then I did!! WAHHHH!!! I want more time! If only I had more time!! I could have gotten better than a 74, I just know it!!! NOT FAIR!!!!" < Pretty accurate, imo.
I've been through high school, college and law school and I've never had a professor like this. I've gotten C's in courses before but it didn't bother me because the professor stuck to the syllabus and I didn't do well in the course. It was my fault. I don't blame professors for grades. I've never questioned a professor about a grade or an exam before in my life. I'm not one of those people that gets a 95 on a test and then goes up there and argues with the professor for 15 minutes to try and get two extra points. I accept that I got the questions wrong and move on.
This is irrelevant.
This is different. He violated his own rules and it gave two students an unfair advantage over the rest of us and I do intend on taking it up with people.
So go "take it up with people." Nothing will come of it except for the fact that you will make yourself look unbelievably foolish and neurotic. Syllabi aren't set in stone and can obviously change due to extenuating circumstances and whatnot. And I guess that is why your argument fails.
 
To those telling me that I've wasted time that I could have spent studying, I've already done every odd-numbered electrochemistry problem in the textbook as well as a practice exam off of cramster. I understand the material. I don't know what else I can do at this point.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe polling SDN wasn't the smartest idea. I know that I posted the situation on Facebook (albeit in a shorter post) this afternoon and 4 out of the 5 people who responded agreed with me that it was b.s. The last person agreed that it was unfair but told me to forget about it. I'm not claiming that it adversely impacts us because there's a curve. I think I've been clear that there isn't one. I'm saying that the two make-up takers received an advantage that the rest of us did not receive and could not expect to receive given what we heard from the professor and read in the syllabus. I've already said twice that I wasn't feeling well on Thursday. I wish I could have skipped the exam, e-mailed the professor and taken the exam today. I certainly would have done better and not missed so many easy multiple choice (that I knew the right answer to but selected the wrong answer because I was sweating buckets into my tissues toward the end and just wanted to get the hell out of there). But I had no expectation that this would even be possible given what I had been told up to that point.
 
U mad, brah? :mad:

What makes you think that the 2 students felt entitled to their make-ups? Did you ask them how they went about asking the prof? Did you ask what the circumstances were? No, on both accounts.

Yeah, um, how would you recommend I do that tactfully? It's honestly none of my business, because even if it's a good excuse, it's still not allowed by the syllabus.

Obviously the prof. had a good reason to "break the rules" and give the students a make-up YOU are just "lame" and not digging deep enough to find out why, and instead ranting on a forum like a child.
Sorry, I guess I should dig deeper into the circumstances. Maybe I should hire a private investigator and have them follow the two makeup students. The investigator can fish through their refuse and recyclables to find the important data. What do you think?

"WAHHH, they had more time to study then I did!! WAHHHH!!! I want more time! If only I had more time!! I could have gotten better than a 74, I just know it!!! NOT FAIR!!!!" < Pretty accurate, imo.
Actually I know that I could have gotten a better score given the fact that I already said I didn't feel well when taking the exam but unlike the two make-up exam takers, I didn't have the option of a make-up. But that's not the point. If the professor hadn't allowed anyone to make up this test, I wouldn't even have made this post. That's my major gripe and if he had followed the syllabus then it would have been a moot point. I'm not the only one in the class that feels this way. Most were upset upon hearing the news that 2 students got to take a make-up.

So go "take it up with people." Nothing will come of it except for the fact that you will make yourself look unbelievably foolish and neurotic. Syllabi aren't set in stone and can obviously change due to extenuating circumstances and whatnot. And I guess that is why your argument fails.
Okay. So would it be okay for everyone in the class to skip the exam this Thursday and go get doctor's notes? We could have the make-up exam on Monday afternoon. Make an exception once and you're bound by it. You can't get involved in the minutiae of excuses. Someone's sick, excused. Someone's mother died, excused.
 
Yeah, um, how would you recommend I do that tactfully? It's honestly none of my business, because even if it's a good excuse, it's still not allowed by the syllabus.
The syllabus can change. /thread
Sorry, I guess I should dig deeper into the circumstances. Maybe I should hire a private investigator and have them follow the two makeup students. The investigator can fish through their refuse and recyclables to find the important data. What do you think?
From your last few posts, I wouldn't be surprised if you were serious.
Actually I know that I could have gotten a better score given the fact that I already said I didn't feel well when taking the exam but unlike the two make-up exam takers, I didn't have the option of a make-up. But that's not the point. If the professor hadn't allowed anyone to make up this test, I wouldn't even have made this post. That's my major gripe and if he had followed the syllabus then it would have been a moot point. I'm not the only one in the class that feels this way. Most were upset upon hearing the news that 2 students got to take a make-up.
I KNOW! I definitely could have done better on that last test, if only I: [fill in arbitrary excuse that explains three consecutive 60's and a 74]
Again the syllabus can change. It is a guide for the course and not set in stone. /thread
Okay. So would it be okay for everyone in the class to skip the exam this Thursday and go get doctor's notes? We could have the make-up exam on Monday afternoon. Make an exception once and you're bound by it. You can't get involved in the minutiae of excuses. Someone's sick, excused. Someone's mother died, excused.
You should try this. Maybe, wait until a day when you're "feeling well." And the prof. CAN in fact "get involved in the minutiae of excuses." If they want, they can excuse a death in the family. But they don't have to excuse a "doctor's note" since it is because of poor planning of the appointment by the student. Again your logic fails. Whiners gonna whine.
 
I KNOW! I definitely could have done better on that last test, if only I: [fill in arbitrary excuse that explains three consecutive 60's and a 74

The 100(class avg: 60) and 3 60s (class avg 30) on my quizzes were on kinetics and thermochemistry stuff and they were all prior to exam 1. Ergo, not consecutive. I don't know how I did on the equilibrium quiz because he never returned to us. But hey, don't let me stop you from talking out of your butt and insulting someone who has never taken chemistry before. :) If you want to make cheap personal attacks on my grades then keep going, we're laughing over here.

You should know that there are a couple of former AP chem students in my class who earned 4s on the exam and declined the credit so they could retake in college. They're earning 60s on the quizzes too. They must be dumb too, right? We're all dumb. :)
 
If they want, they can excuse a death in the family. But they don't have to excuse a "doctor's note" since it is because of poor planning of the appointment by the student. Again your logic fails. Whiners gonna whine.

Lordy, where do you find the space to store all of these straw men?

Anyway, it wasn't the doctor's note that the professor would be excusing. it would be the illness that the doctor's note confirms, unless you're saying that students who get sick on exam days have only themselves to blame because of poor planning. Damn bacteria and virus, go away and come again some other day!

Yeah?
 
If you were truly sick (not just a head cold), you have the right to be pissed off that you took the exam while others got to take a make-up. You could just ask the professor if he could clarify the make-up policy, which will draw his attention to it not jiving with the syllabus, and then just hope that it will be applied more consistently down the line.

I wouldn't push it any further than this, though. Nothing can be gained from that. He's not going to revoke their tests, nor is he going to add points to yours. As others have already said, any extra points they might have gained does not hurt your score in any way. Honestly, I would just let the whole thing go.

As for the other issues, there's nothing you can do. I've been in countless classes with annoying students who ask too many questions. The professor can ask whatever they want on quizzes. Take it as a lesson not to listen to what they tell you the quiz will be on, and make sure you know all of the content that was covered prior to the quiz.
 
Man, this is a useless thread. as useless as trolling threads, not as fun.

Just get used to it, life isn't fair. I'm sure everybody here had at least a teacher like this before, you don't see anybody else crying here.
 
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:laugh:
 
I won't continue the quoting-war because I don't want you to cry anymore than you have already done in this thread.

Good luck with your issues about your general chemistry teacher. Sounds like a very serious violation of the rules by the prof. Update back with his punishment.
 
Honestly chman, I think that this class is at least as difficult as it would be a a four-year school because there is no curve. All the exams I took in college and law school with were always a bit easier, because as long as I performed in the top 15-20% of those who took the exam, I'd be getting a curved A or at least a B. Here's that's not the case. At this school a 94 is an A. No 75s turning into A's, no 82's turning into A's, no 86's turning into A's. This summer course sequence goes at the same pace as the summer chemistry sequences at four year schools do and they use the same textbooks. When I pull my A out of this course I don't think it's particularly fair that some people will look at it and say that it's not a real A.
 
Excuse me while I play you a song on the World's Smallest Violin. +pity+
 
I think this thread could be a good lesson to us all---When you publicize your concerns at length on SDN, you run the risk of getting eaten alive by [well-meaning?] pre-meds...precious.

LawNonTrad, IMO, just talk with your prof.---be honest and clear about your concerns.
 
I guess I should consider myself lucky that my school is not +/- and that all my classes only curved up, never down.
 
Too lazy to read the novel you've posted up, but do you actually know the circumstances behind the two students making up a test? Sometimes the situation warrants a bend in the rules
 
Hey LawNonTrad, if I were in your situation, I would try my best to get that A (and from one of your posts, it seems you are studying hard to make that happen). I wouldn't approach the prof about it until after the class ends. Why? You never want a prof upset with you while you are still taking the class, and there is little chance that he/she would change anything (trust me, prof would not like your recommendations on how to fix his course administration...). Anyway, you already did well in gen chem I, and you will do well in gen chem II if you work your butt off.

You said yourself the A is what matters, so don't get caught up in the drama...
 
Just curious, would you guys report cheating in this class if you witnessed it? I mean it doesn't affect my grade if someone else cheats, and according to some in this thread that is the appropriate barometer for whether something is serious or not) so wouldn't I just be bitching if I told the professor about it?
 
Just curious, would you guys report cheating in this class if you witnessed it? I mean it doesn't affect my grade if someone else cheats, and according to some in this thread that is the appropriate barometer for whether something is serious or not) so wouldn't I just be bitching if I told the professor about it?

No.

And don't hate on the make up policy being bent.

That stuff has no bearing on you. If it comes up to where you miss a test and you aren't allowed to make it up, you have a major problem. But if you're able to get there for every test, and someone has something come up, you should hope that the professor allows them to make it up. If you want to be a physician, compassion and understanding are important qualities. And it's just being a decent human being.
 
Have you considered that perhaps you were not made for medicine? When speaking to patients, brevity and conciseness are key. I gave up reading your unbelievably long post half way through...and your responses are almost as bad

Yeah, life is unfair. Get used to it. Work past it. That's part of the path you have chosen.
 
Yeah, life is unfair. Get used to it. Work past it. That's part of the path you have chosen.

:thumbup:. Except you don't have to be a doctor to realize that point. Life is unfair for everyone don't whine too much and get back to studying and doing the even problems and the extra hard ones the teacher gave for fun.
 
i haven't read all of the posts above, but i will say that professors can do whatever the heck they please. it's life; get used to it. judging from your username, you shouldn't have to realize that from an 18 year old like me (no offense)
 
Have you considered that perhaps you were not made for medicine? When speaking to patients, brevity and conciseness are key. I gave up reading your unbelievably long post half way through...and your responses are almost as bad

Yeah, life is unfair. Get used to it. Work past it. That's part of the path you have chosen.
ah the you-will-make-a-bad-doctor card.. this thread is now complete.
 

I think this sums up everything. It's so beautiful...

You know how many 89.5-89.99's I've gotten where the prof wouldn't bump me up to an A?? It's not fair, but at the end of the day it's their class, their choice. If they're breaking college rules, then talk to the Dean... if you just don't like his syllabus and grade breakdown, tough cookies. Use it as a challenge to beast his class, then be proud of the fact you climbed Mt Everest.
 
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