It's Halftime in Amercia...

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If the economy stays where it is Mitt Romney is going to get slaughtered in the general. Obama/Hilary was tough but in no way were they doing the damage to the party that's currently occurring in the GOP primary. Barbara Bush just called this race the worst campaign she's ever seen and she's like 118 years old. Romney had to outspend Santorum 5 to 1 in Ohio to squeak out a 1 % win and that's not a strategy that will be available to him this fall. I think this Onion headline sums it up pretty well

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If the economy stays where it is Mitt Romney is going to get slaughtered in the general. Obama/Hilary was tough but in no way were they doing the damage to the party that's currently occurring in the GOP primary. Barbara Bush just called this race the worst campaign she's ever seen and she's like 118 years old. Romney had to outspend Santorum 5 to 1 in Ohio to squeak out a 1 % win and that's not a strategy that will be available to him this fall. I think this Onion headline sums it up pretty well

JmdOt.png

I've been convinced he'll get slaughtered too, but last night one of the exit poll questions for Santorum voters was "who will you vote for in the general election if Romney wins the nomination?". The answer invariably was Romney. I still don't doubt he'll lose in the general, but as non-polarizing as Obama wants to be, he's become so. I think it might be closer than I previously thought. (I also think the polarizing aspect is primarily due to all the (in my opinion) RIDICULOUS "socialist" talk and prejudice as much as anything. I am NOT saying if you disagree with Obama you're racist. I'm saying that we all know there is a large segment of the mostly red state populations that will distrust him for the wrong reasons REGARDLESS of policies.
 
I've been convinced he'll get slaughtered too, but last night one of the exit poll questions for Santorum voters was "who will you vote for in the general election if Romney wins the nomination?". The answer invariably was Romney. I still don't doubt he'll lose in the general, but as non-polarizing as Obama wants to be, he's become so. I think it might be closer than I previously thought. (I also think the polarizing aspect is primarily due to all the (in my opinion) RIDICULOUS "socialist" talk and prejudice as much as anything. I am NOT saying if you disagree with Obama you're racist. I'm saying that we all know there is a large segment of the mostly red state populations that will distrust him for the wrong reasons REGARDLESS of policies.

There are plenty of people of all colors that care about race. Obama got 95% of the African American vote in the 2008 general election. How come people only rarely talk about race influencing African American voters? Recently Samuel L. Jackson openly stated that he voted for Obama because he was black. If a white hollywood actor said he voted against Obama because he was black I think that the media coverage would be a little bit different, don't you?
 
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There are plenty of people of all colors that care about race. Obama got 95% of the African American vote in the 2008 general election. How come people only rarely talk about race influencing African American voters? Recently Samuel L. Jackson openly stated that he voted for Obama because he was black. If a white hollywood actor said he voted against Obama because he was black I think that the media coverage would be a little bit different, don't you?

Hmmm, I agree with the following article in that race shouldn't be the primary motivator behind choosing a candidate, but there's a significant difference between black Americans with a long history of oppression voting for Obama because of race vs. say white West Virginia democrats voting for Hillary because they're unapologetically racist

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http://jonathanturley.org/2012/02/2...r-an-abdication-of-the-civil-rights-movement/

African Americans For Obama: Is An Appeal To Race A Celebration or An Abdication of The Civil Rights Movement?

President Barack Obama this month launched “African Americans For Obama.” This video shows Obama with an articulate and moving message tied to African American month, but is it the right message? There is no question this is a direct appeal to race as a unifying theme with supporters — a move that would be denounced if tried by his white opponents. In the video, Obama states “I don’t think there’s a better time than Black History Month” for this effort, but some view this as the worst time for an open injection of race as a motivating factor in politics

It has long been a touchstone of American politics that appeals to race are dangerous and divisive. That certainly does not mean that race is not a factor in politics. However, the common open references to race that marred prior elections in the sixties and even the seventies were considered things of the past. If African Americans are united by their racial bond with Obama, does that mean that other candidates can appeal openly to white communities? Clearly other communities organize around their common identities from Cubans to Koreans to Italians. However, organizing solely on the basis for skin color should raise some legitimate concerns and objections, in my view. Indeed, we have strongly condemned past candidates who made even veiled references to race.

One answer could be that blacks have a shared history of oppression that whites lack. This history gives them a special bond not found in other communities. I do believe that argument has merit. Yet, this is a significant change in the long-standing aversion to open appeal to race as a unifying theme.

It is an interesting issue that is worthy of debate among people of good faith. It is not just limited to politics (though that tends to be the most unnerving). There is a growing movement toward incorporating race and gender distinctions in public policies. I have previously written about how we have reinforced segregation principles in our schools and prisons (here and here and here). I do see the distinction drawn by those who see a clear distinction for African Americans and I find aspects of that argument quite compelling. However, in the long struggle to remove race from politics, this troubles some of us.

On the social level, there is also a growing trend toward voluntary segregation. There is an array of race-based dating sites, the most prominent being BlackPeopleMeet which advertises widely. Once again, the question is the likely response to a dating date for white people. Unlike religious dating sites which deal with communities with established religious practices and limitations in dating, a race-based dating site offers a form of voluntary segregation.

It creates an interesting contrast in how our laws treat real and virtual meeting spaces. The Civil Rights Act prohibits discrimination or segregation in places of public accommodation. Thus, a public restaurant cannot adopt the exclusionary practices as the place “where Black people eat” or “where White people eat.” Yet, presumably these sites are restricted to members of particular races. These are perfectly legal as associations, of course.

I also realize that associations have long been defined on exclusionary groups from Italian-Americans to Irish-Americans to share cultural norms and practices. Moreover, I do not question the right of people to choose racially exclusive associations — as much as I abhor them. I understand that people feel that they need the shared experiences and culture in such sites. I support the right to have such sites and association regardless of my dislike for racial exclusionary practices. However, I believe this trend — particularly in politics — undermines rather than advances the cause of men like Martin Luther King and the successes highlighted during Black History month. To that end, I think that the President is being irresponsible in organizing part of his campaign along racial lines. More than anyone else, a president should be a unifying figure in our country. I did not vote for Obama because he was black and I do not believe that people should support or oppose him on that basis now. What is fascinating is that Obama doesn’t even need to organize along race. He has always received overwhelming support in the black community. Yet, his campaign has decided to take this step despite the inevitable criticism for “playing the race card.” While race will continue to play a role for many citizens in their voting, the President should stick to “Americans For Obama” rather than organize citizens according to their race in my view.

What do you think?
 
Hmmm, I agree with the following article in that race shouldn't be the primary motivator behind choosing a candidate, but there's a significant difference between black Americans with a long history of oppression voting for Obama because of race vs. say white West Virginia democrats voting for Hillary because they're unapologetically racist

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People can vote for whoever they want and on whatever basis they choose. Regardless if we think it is absurd. If they don't want to vote for Obama because he's black, that's their racist prerogative according to my interpretation of freedom and voting. If someone only voted FOR Obama because he's black it's the flip side of the same coin.

Yea yea, I'm defending racists.:scared:
 
Hmmm, I agree with the following article in that race shouldn't be the primary motivator behind choosing a candidate, but there's a significant difference between black Americans with a long history of oppression voting for Obama because of race vs. say white West Virginia democrats voting for Hillary because they're unapologetically racist

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When you hold a group of people to lower standard of behavior, you are perpetuating the very thing that you are professing to abhor.
 
When you hold a group of people to lower standard of behavior, you are perpetuating the very thing that you are professing to abhor.

Being Black has helped Obama much more than hurt him. IMHO, Obama's race is the very reason why he will get re-elected. No white President as bad as Obama would stand a chance.

Bush only won re-election because the nation didn't fully understand the debt situation. We are all now well-educated on debt and Entitlements.
 
There are plenty of people of all colors that care about race. Obama got 95% of the African American vote in the 2008 general election. How come people only rarely talk about race influencing African American voters? Recently Samuel L. Jackson openly stated that he voted for Obama because he was black. If a white hollywood actor said he voted against Obama because he was black I think that the media coverage would be a little bit different, don't you?

I wonder if there really was a significant "white guilt" vote in 2008, and what those race-motivated voters will do this time around.

95% of black people voting for Obama looks bad on the surface, but I'm not so ready to cast stones at people of a ethnic minority who were excited to see one of their own as a solid candidate for the first time in history.

If nuttos like Farrakhan or Jesse Jackson ever got 95% of the black vote, I'd be less philosophical about it.


An awful lot of moderates and independents voted for Obama because they couldn't stomach the thought of 4 more years of McBush with a side of Sarah Palin. SO FAR Romney doesn't have any of that baggage. That's a lot of moderate non-party-line voters in swing states who voted anti-incumbent last time, who (if it's Romney not Santorum) won't have the same reason to be disgusted with the GOP nominee.

Point being, on a macro scale, I don't see where Obama is going to find MORE supporters this time around, and there are groups where he'll surely have less support.

Neither Obama nor Romney have even started nationally campaigning yet.
 
You're probably losing people with the name calling. Doesn't represent the profession real well to lurkers either. I'm not sayin I'm above it, I'm just sayin

You're right.
 
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Being Black has helped Obama much more than hurt him. IMHO, Obama's race is the very reason why he will get re-elected. No white President as bad as Obama would stand a chance.

Agree completely. Has become politically incorrect to point out that Obama doesn't understand math or economics.
 
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Could someone explain to me what exactly Obama has done that is so out of the mainstream (for politicians that is)?

Anyone who thinks McCain wouldn't have continued the Bush bailouts to the same extent Obama did is deluding himself (Romney would have done the same too had he won the election in 2008). So the deficit would be the same if not worse.

The Obama healthcare bill is an implementation of a Heritage foundation idea that was enacted by Romney in MA. Truth is, it does almost nothing, so it neither costs the government a significant amount of money nor does it solve anything. Most of the people deriding it as Obamacare have no clue what it does (including a lot of doctors sadly). The individual mandate is actually a conservative idea that makes sense but wont be defended by Obama (he initially didn't want it).

On national defense, Obama has been as hawkish as the rest even if he sometimes uses peaceful rhetoric.

Aside from Supreme Court nominees, let's be honest: there would have been no difference between a President McCain or Romney and Obama.
 
Being Black has helped Obama much more than hurt him. IMHO, Obama's race is the very reason why he will get re-elected. No white President as bad as Obama would stand a chance.

Bush only won re-election because the nation didn't fully understand the debt situation. We are all now well-educated on debt and Entitlements.

I disagree. First, I think every person you ask will have a different opinion on what's an "entitlement" and what's a necessary social support system. You also won't find agreement on what's best: government support to prevent financial collapse or the government support that will most likely be necessary if there IS a financial collapse (I'm talking about micro and macro. Individuals and corporations/systems that employ people).

Obama's opinions on these matters (social and/or financial) are well respected by a LOT of very intelligent people, and the opposite is also true. The only people that are outright wrong as far as I can tell are the people who claim that all the answers are obvious. Economically you could argue that we might as well let people that can't support themselves die. It would save us LOTS of money. And yes people WOULD die (charities are NOT going to save all the poor and disabled).
It's also in no way obvious how much we need to limit the powers of big businesses that could easily monopolize and gouge us if we left them to their own devices. I like Ron Paul a lot because of his honesty his stance on many issues, but the way this country works is way too complicated for the government to take a hands-off approach.

Anyway, just because you might think it's obvious that one candidate is terrible does absolutely NOT mean that other people see it that way. Everyone weighs the issues and the candidate's stances on those issues to different degrees and they vote accordingly (in theory). I doubt very much that Obama's race is the deciding factor in his electability.
I at least TRY to respect other positions unless someone's blatantly lying like just about everyone on Fox, and to a less blatant degree the MSNBC crew.
 
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Could someone explain to me what exactly Obama has done that is so out of the mainstream.

The problem is Obama IS mainstream. Mainstream wants a lot of free stuff and not pay for it. Mainstream has gotten us 15 trillion dollars in debt. Obama is the Barry Bonds of mainstream debt spending with trillion plus dollar deficits for as far as we can see. It's an unsustainable system and when we needed a hero to make us sacrifice, all we got was Obama handing out even more free candy.
 
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Money and math are not popularity contests. The problem is Obama IS mainstream. Mainstream wants a lot of free stuff and not pay for it. Mainstream has gotten us 15 trillion dollars in debt. Obama is the Barry Bonds of mainstream debt spending with trillion plus dollar deficits for as far as we can see. It's an unsustainable system and when we needed a hero to make us sacrifice, all we got was Obama handing out even more free candy.

None of the alternatives except possibly Ron Paul would have done anything differently on the debt.

Also, quite frankly, our debt isn't a problem. With rock bottom interest rates and holding debt in our own currency, we can easily afford debt right now. In the future, yes, we'll need to cut back, but not now.

We need short term stimulus and long term fiscal responsibility or the economy will stink for decades.

If someone's in hypotensive shock you don't yell at them to cut back on salt because it's bad for you - you give them saline.

Why is the difference between short term emergency interventions and long term measures so hard for you to understand? As doctors/soon-to-be doctors we should have some familiarity with these kinds of things.
 
None of the alternatives except possibly Ron Paul would have done anything differently on the debt.

Yeah, more or less, unfortunately.

Also, quite frankly, our debt isn't a problem. With rock bottom interest rates and holding debt in our own currency, we can easily afford debt right now. In the future, yes, we'll need to cut back, but not now.

Interest rates can't stay low forever. NOW is the time to get the budget balanced and create a solid plan for long term debt reduction. BEFORE interest rates rise and even low rates like 3-5% result in annual interest payments of $750 billion PER YEAR.

Do the math. Our existing debt is $15 trillion. That's not going away without a balanced budget. Five more years of "stimulus" and deficits will swell that by a few $trillion ...

If interest rates are 5% by 2020, we'll owe the better part of a $trillion each year in interest alone.

Which would you rather do? Make moderate voluntary cuts and suffer small tax increases now, or wait until a trillion dollars in annual interest forces us to impose real Greece-style austerity measures AND openly devalue our currency?

We need short term stimulus beer money and long term fiscal responsibility I'll live within my means later or the economy my current social life will stink for decades.

Spoken like a college kid with his first credit card, paying tuition with student loans.


Why is the difference between short term emergency interventions and long term measures so hard for you to understand? As doctors/soon-to-be doctors we should have some familiarity with these kinds of things.

Ooh, flirting with Burnett's Law there. :)

Here's why: because the deficit spending isn't short term, and there's no end in sight. It started in the Reagan years, ironically an effort to outspend the Soviets so they'd foolishly wreck THEIR economy trying to keep up.

As noted a dozen times already, the problem didn't start with Obama. He's just the latest to dig the hole deeper.


I think you also overestimate the real impact of "stimulus" spending when it comes to creating meaningful, sustainable economic growth. Stimulus is just another kind of bubble - the ride up ain't bad, but the downside's a bitch.
 
Only thing I respect is math and evidence when it comes to the economy, and quite frankly the arguments for immediate deficit reduction seem to make far more assumptions than the arguments for immediate stimulus.

I agree with you that politicians have no credibility when it comes I long term plans, but that just means we need make an effort to enforce long term responsibility.

Compare the economic analyses of the WSJ editorial page over the last decade with those of Paul Krugman and tell me which one has more credibility. His model of a liquidity trap for our current situation explains what is happening far better than the arguments made by proponents of austerity.

Interest rates can stay low as long as there is insufficient demand - as has been shown during this downturn. People have predicted an increase in interest rates every few months and have been wrong every time so far.

I do think the example of distributive shock is appropriate - intravascular volume may be normal or high, but we need to keep blood pumping to the heart or we're screwed so better to add saline now. We shouldn't overload the patient, but deal with the immediate crisis first.

If austerity crashes the economy, it can actually add to the deficit (look at Europe).

If the evidence were on your side I wouldn't be arguing with you - I have no investment in any particular theory, just don't like faith-based economics.

And for the record, the college student analogy is completely inaccurate. You can't apply micro principles directly to macro.
 
Only thing I respect is math and evidence when it comes to the economy, and quite frankly the arguments for immediate deficit reduction seem to make far more assumptions than the arguments for immediate stimulus.

I agree with you that politicians have no credibility when it comes I long term plans, but that just means we need make an effort to enforce long term responsibility.

Compare the economic analyses of the WSJ editorial page over the last decade with those of Paul Krugman and tell me which one has more credibility. His model of a liquidity trap for our current situation explains what is happening far better than the arguments made by proponents of austerity.

Interest rates can stay low as long as there is insufficient demand - as has been shown during this downturn. People have predicted an increase in interest rates every few months and have been wrong every time so far.

I do think the example of distributive shock is appropriate - intravascular volume may be normal or high, but we need to keep blood pumping to the heart or we're screwed so better to add saline now. We shouldn't overload the patient, but deal with the immediate crisis first.

If austerity crashes the economy, it can actually add to the deficit (look at Europe).

If the evidence were on your side I wouldn't be arguing with you - I have no investment in any particular theory, just don't like faith-based economics.

And for the record, the college student analogy is completely inaccurate. You can't apply micro principles directly to macro.

Your post is another example of why I know that we will get 4 more years of Obama and significant inflation during his second term. Once the inflation monster rears its ugly head that dollar in your pocket will be worth 25 cents. Simply look at the price of Gold to see the real value of the U.S. Dollar the last 10 years.
 

That reminds me - 10 years ago and longer, when the US dollar beat the Canadian dollar handily, the cheap (poor) younger me would get Canadian money from the ATM. Lap dances were $20 in USD or CAD. So, with the exchange, my lap dances were functionally $13. Hey, they were working for the money, so I let them work! A few caught on, but what could they say?
 
Only thing I respect is math and evidence when it comes to the economy,

[...]

Interest rates can stay low as long as there is insufficient demand - as has been shown during this downturn. People have predicted an increase in interest rates every few months and have been wrong every time so far.

I'm not attempting to predict WHEN interest rates will rise, only stating that they will. This is clearly self-evident. Interest rates fluctuate over time, they always have, they always will. Currently they're being held near zero. They will rise, eventually. We don't need to ponder the details of why interest rates will be raised. Voluntary, involuntary, it doesn't matter. For the purposes of my question to you, it doesn't matter exactly when or how quickly it happens - maybe in 2 years, maybe in 10, maybe slow, maybe fast.


Since you respect math, my question for you is this:

What's going to happen when the average effective interest rate on our national debt rises to a modest 3-5%, and annual interest costs exceed $500 billion?

I'm not asking you to predict the year it will happen ... only your interpretation of the consequences when it does. Or do you think
1) interest rates will never rise?
2) sustained economic growth and increased tax receipts will make that interest cost manageable?
3) something else?

What do you think the federal budget will look like in 2015 or 2020 or 2025 when the federal debt is $20 trillion (or more) and interest rates are 5%?
 
I know it's hard for the left/liberals to stick with the facts but at least keep the discussion civil.

Obama is a disaster for this country. 4 more years of him? Wait until you see the graph of Gold in 2016 after Obama runs the country off a cliff. Inflation? Gas Prices? Just think Jimmy Carter and you have a good idea what we are facing with Obama.

IMHO, Obama is the worst president of my lifetime. There were some pretty bad ones but history will prove Obama to be the worst, especially if he gets 4 more years of rule in the White House.
 
COMMENTARY | Breitbart.com has released what is the first in a series of videos that show President Barack Obama's radical past, in this case depicting a 30-year-old future president literally embracing a law professor named Derrick Bell, who had some unusual racial theories.
The occasion was a protest meeting at Harvard revolving around the denial of tenure to Regina Austin, an African American law professor. Professor Bell had conducted a hunger strike and had threatened to resign unless Austin was granted tenure. Obama, then a 30-year-old law student, spoke at a rally, and in the video he urged the protestors to "open their hearts and minds" to the words of Professor Bell.
Bell, according to an article in the Blaze, was a proponent of what he called "racial realism" in approaching the law. To summarize, he suggested that no matter what the law actually said, its effect was to perpetuate a society that was permanently and irredeemably racist. Bell, who was a civil rights attorney in the 1960s, held the opposite view from Dr. Martin Luther King, who talked about judging people by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.
According to Bell, it was all about the color of someone's skin.
Bell approached the law in the same manner as Jeremiah Wright. As a University of Chicago law professor, Obama used Bell's writings in the courses he taught, according to Breitbart.com. Bell is another scary mentor of Obama's who identify was kept hidden during the 2008 campaign.
The video itself does not have the effect that some of the Wright videos, released in the 2008 campaign, had. Bell is seen as an elderly man who does not speak in the footage released. But one knowing the racial ideas of Bell makes young Obama's embrace of him off putting to say the least.
Bell, by the way, is the author of a science fiction story, "The Space Traders," which depicts a race of aliens who offer the United States enough gold to retire the national debt, a way to clean up all pollution, and a limitless supply of energy. The quid pro quo is that America should sell all blacks into slavery. The story, made into an HBO movie, depicts American whites as agreeing to the proposition.
 
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None of the alternatives except possibly Ron Paul would have done anything differently on the debt.

Yes, we all know this. Do terrible alternatives somehow make a horrible president good?? :rolleyes:

Why is the difference between short term emergency interventions and long term measures so hard for you to understand? As doctors/soon-to-be doctors we should have some familiarity with these kinds of things.

Why is it so hard for you to understand "EMERGENCY!!! EMERGENCY!!!" measures are the politicians way of getting you to believe complete nonsense. So if we just go broker faster, that will make us rich again?? :rolleyes:

Go ask the guy who grew up on a reservation how wonderful a government run central planned community is. :rolleyes:
 
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COMMENTARY | Breitbart.com has released what is the first in a series of videos that show President Barack Obama's radical past, in this case depicting a 30-year-old future president literally embracing a law professor named Derrick Bell, who had some unusual racial theories.
The occasion was a protest meeting at Harvard revolving around the denial of tenure to Regina Austin, an African American law professor. Professor Bell had conducted a hunger strike and had threatened to resign unless Austin was granted tenure. Obama, then a 30-year-old law student, spoke at a rally, and in the video he urged the protestors to "open their hearts and minds" to the words of Professor Bell.
Bell, according to an article in the Blaze, was a proponent of what he called "racial realism" in approaching the law. To summarize, he suggested that no matter what the law actually said, its effect was to perpetuate a society that was permanently and irredeemably racist. Bell, who was a civil rights attorney in the 1960s, held the opposite view from Dr. Martin Luther King, who talked about judging people by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.
According to Bell, it was all about the color of someone's skin.
Bell approached the law in the same manner as Jeremiah Wright. As a University of Chicago law professor, Obama used Bell's writings in the courses he taught, according to Breitbart.com. Bell is another scary mentor of Obama's who identify was kept hidden during the 2008 campaign.
The video itself does not have the effect that some of the Wright videos, released in the 2008 campaign, had. Bell is seen as an elderly man who does not speak in the footage released. But one knowing the racial ideas of Bell makes young Obama's embrace of him off putting to say the least.
Bell, by the way, is the author of a science fiction story, "The Space Traders," which depicts a race of aliens who offer the United States enough gold to retire the national debt, a way to clean up all pollution, and a limitless supply of energy. The quid pro quo is that America should sell all blacks into slavery. The story, made into an HBO movie, depicts American whites as agreeing to the proposition.

Is this an issue that's important to you? Politicians do meet a lot of people in a lifetime and often don't agree with all of the views of each of the hundreds of thousands of people whose hands they shake, or who they hug in this case.
 
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What a truly convincing picture....BHO hugging a bigot while surrounded by what appears to be dozens of cheering women and minorities. Seriously, get a clue. This "story" is already off the front page of both fox and drudge because not even they believe it be anything newsworthy enough to rile up their base
 
Go ask the guy who grew up on a reservation how wonderful a government run central planned community is. :rolleyes:

I didn't grow up in the southwest, but a great lakes region reservation. My Tribe maintains it's tribal soverignty on our own treaty land, with our own courts and laws.This is how tribes are able to have casino's on their land. = Not government run.


I would really like to sift through your posts and see how many facts there are. I won't though because it would take awhile.

Won't do any good. These folks just want to stroke eachothers hatred. If you make a serious point they will ignore it and move right along. Their 'facts' are cafeteria style, they take what they like; ignore and dismiss what they don't.

You really think they would be happy if Obama had went with the Simpson-Bowles plan or any republican suggestion for that matter? They would just have different talking points and cartoons.

It's easy to do what they do when truth and consequences are less important than their self-created self-reinforced bubble of ideology and beliefs. They won't even sign on to traditionally republican ideas if Obama is the one suggesting them. The Dems had to fight FOR the payroll TAX CUT! FFS about which Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said. "We're dumb, but we're not stupid."

It's not about making things better or saving the economy or helping the struggling middle class to these folks. It's about Obama personally. They know how terrible GW was and had to listen to everybody make fun and complain for years. Now with the Dem in office, it's their turn. They have just taken the hyperbole, rhetoric, and propoganda dials and cranked them to 11.
 
It's not about making things better or saving the economy or helping the struggling middle class to these folks. It's about Obama personally. They know how terrible GW was and had to listen to everybody make fun and complain for years. Now with the Dem in office, it's their turn. They have just taken the hyperbole, rhetoric, and propoganda dials and cranked them to 11.

Narc and Blade are actually hardcore libertarian (except when it comes to abortion / oppression of gays/women) Ron Paulites. It's a whole new level of dog-eat-dog insanity compared to standard GOP talking points.
 
libertarian Ron Paulites... a whole new level of dog-eat-dog insanity.

:rolleyes: Those silly libertarians that don't understand the value of a 15 trillion dollar debt :rolleyes:

except when it comes to abortion / oppression of gays/women.

So it's not only math that you can't do, you can't read either? :rolleyes: Figures.

I'm pro-abortion and completely indifferent if gays get married. :rolleyes:

While you are at it why did you leave out my KKK and Skinhead memberships? :rolleyes:
 
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Your post is another example of why I know that we will get 4 more years of Obama and significant inflation during his second term. Once the inflation monster rears its ugly head that dollar in your pocket will be worth 25 cents. Simply look at the price of Gold to see the real value of the U.S. Dollar the last 10 years.

You know that it would actually be to our benefit for the dollar to be devalued, right? It would both decrease the size of our debt and also make our products more competitive on a global market. The only reason China is still one of the top manufacturers in the world is because they artificially depress their currency.

If our national debt were in yen or gold it would be a different story, but it's in dollars. As long as we can continue to borrow at reasonable interest rates, a little bit of inflation is actually a good thing (not to mention that the price of gold is being artificially inflated by fear mongering, which is why it's out of line with the CPI - or if you prefer your inflation measures without government fingerprints, the MIT billion price index).
 
Oh boy. Hey Einstein, as a doctor to be or whatever you are, why is it so hard for you to understand "EMERGENCY!!! EMERGENCY!!!" measures are the politicians way of getting you to believe complete nonsense. So if we just go broker faster, that will make us rich again??

Who said I'm listening to any politicians on this matter? I'm mainly reading economists, particularly Paul Krugman. Most politicians don't understand economics at all, and most pundits are just as bad. There's a difference of opinion between freshwater and saltwater schools of economics right now, and as far as I can see it the freshwater people have been wrong with every prediction they've made.

I usually consider myself liberal, but that's mainly because I'm allergic to religion. The core of my philosophy is skepticism and questioning as many assumptions as possible. You should be a little bit more self-critical and re-examine some of your central tenets, you may find them appealing but it's better to fit your theory to facts than the facts to your theory.
 
Narc and Blade are actually hardcore libertarian (except when it comes to abortion / oppression of gays/women) Ron Paulites. It's a whole new level of dog-eat-dog insanity compared to standard GOP talking points.

I actually have some respect for Paul's libertarianism - there's a logic to it that's lacking from most other political ideologies. My main disagreement with him (aside from gold standard wackiness) is that he is only interested in freedom from the federal government. I'm actually a bit mad at the liberal pundits for making such a big deal of Rand Paul's views on segregation - they're the logical conclusion of his basic philosophies, not an endorsement of racism (he believes the federal government has no right to interfere with the running of a business).

Personally, I don't particularly care if it's the federal government, the state government, or a corporation that's oppressing me, I'd like them all off my back, and the best way to do that is to use them to keep each other in check. Call me a civil libertarian maybe.
 
:rolleyes: Those silly libertarians that don't understand the value of a 15 trillion dollar debt :rolleyes:

I'm for long-term deficit reduction, not idiotic, panicked austerity i.e. cut 10 trillion in 5 years in the middle of a weak consumer recovery, which will worsen unemployment significantly just like what's happening in Greece.

But by all means, after Paul drops out feel free to vote for the guy whose tax plan is going to worsen the debt by $3 trillion.. And please keep ignoring the fact that it was Boehner who pulled out of the $4 trillion reduction deal he struck with Obama last year because of the cry baby GOP caucus

So it's not only math that you can't do, you can't read either? :rolleyes: Figures.

Grow the **** up, man

I'm pro-abortion and completely indifferent if gays get married. Got anymore lies? :rolleyes:

Congrats, so between you, blade, and ron paul that makes one out of three.


I actually have some respect for Paul's libertarianism - there's a logic to it that's lacking from most other political ideologies.

It sounds good until you realize that true libertarianism, if employed consistently, leads to a number of abhorrent positions like A. Rand's view on the Civil Rights act, in which existing social infrastructure sets up serious discrimination if unregulated by the state since there was no preexisting, fair libertarian utopia in place beforehand, B. the willingness to let old and poor people just die in the street because of a 'f*ck you, got mine, maximal John Galt freedom wooo!!!11' mentality, C. the destruction of obviously useful things like the FDA, EPA, NIST, DoE, cause hell, who really wants clean air, water, safe medicines, and powerplants that don't explode, right. (yes, there are agencies that have problems, and no, that doesn't mean shut them down completely is the solution), D. Isolationism taken to the extreme- I'm for reducing military expenditures but RP's plan to pull our troops out of every single base around the world is as insane as his gold standard plan

Libertarianism, like utilitarianism, is one of those things that sounds good on the surface (decriminalize non-violent drug offenses) until you really think about the implications of what you're proposing (elderly poverty before and after implementation of a social safety net)
 
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