Its one thing when people here talk about the job market...but concerning when there are published..

[Jhunter]

scientific journals about it too... what the hell? I saw a lot of recent threads on this issue and decided to do my own digging. I found so many informative articles and published journals of research....NCBI published a thorough study about the market...and you guessed it. It isn't looking good at all. What should pharmacists do to stay relevant and viable in this health industry now??
Here's the study: A Looming Joblessness Crisis for New Pharmacy Graduates and the Implications It Holds for the Academy

DrugTopics also posted something similar:http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.com/drug-topics/news/signs-weakening-pharmacist-job-market

Other articles I found:
Pharmacy schools turning out too many grads
The Pharmacy School Bubble Is About to Burst

Uhg, I also typed in google " can't find employment as a pharmacist" and other things similar to those lines, and google is just filled with people across the internet, sdn, job site forums, indeed, etc talking about how they cant find a job!
Here are some of them:Don't become a Pharmacist - Pharmacist Jobs | Indeed.com

Are there NEW PharmD GRADS (from 2010-Present) having trouble? - Pharmacist Jobs | Indeed.com

There are even more on sdn itself...

I am really beginning to worry. I noticed a lot of people here have had contact with older individuals in the field already too... I will try to talk to professionals and see if they will let me record them or help make an informative video about it too. Honestly, I think there are too many schools now that have no standards whatsoever. Keep yourselves informed please!

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[RandomDuck]

I wish these reports were out when my colleagues were in school. They graduated now but are currently unemployed for these very reasons. One is even going for an additional masters degree now, which isn't unheard of in this field anymore.

 

[Jhunter]

I can't even imagine if i were in their shoes..I'm glad for all this information now. I hope your friends find a job somewhere...at least.

 

[AHossain]

These are helpful. Also depressing lol


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[impatientcollegestudent]

Yup. I was like you this year. But now I'm thinking of going another healthcare (nurse practitioner or even anesthesiologist assistant like another thread here explained) route with actual stability and pay. The saturation has increased and the BLS reported that there will be no stop to it at all by lowering the employment rate below national average of ALL jobs...it's pathetic. It went from 14% growth to 3%.... within a few years...You got people on this forum saying they got in with 2.5s and they seriously ask why the market is saturated lol.

 

[pharmasaurusRex17]

What I find weird is that people know there is a surplus of pharmacists (at least in the major metropolis areas), but there are deficits of pharmacists in the more rural/less desirable areas. Graduating pharmacy school w/ a class of 260, all of us have jobs from what I know. Whether it be a regular job or residency or fellowship or pursuing another degree, at least all of us have somewhere to go. Actually, my class' job prospect rate is practically in the 95-100% range.

I honestly think yes, the articles are somewhat true, but you also have to ask the graduates of now too and look deeper into different areas. If you really put your mind to it and work hard and do everything you can, then yes, you'll be able to find a job. What I also notice is that most people want to take the easy way out and stay in a big city or metropolis area. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, at least anymore. You have to start from the bottom, maybe in a less desirable area, then save money and move up while looking for jobs once you have enough experience and connections.

I received 3 full time offers but declined them due to residency matching. Which means either people are not looking hard enough or they dont have the connection into the pharmacy world established.

 

[RandomDuck]

What I find weird is that people know there is a surplus of pharmacists (at least in the major metropolis areas), but there are deficits of pharmacists in the more rural/less desirable areas. Graduating pharmacy school w/ a class of 260, all of us have jobs from what I know. Whether it be a regular job or residency or fellowship or pursuing another degree, at least all of us have somewhere to go. Actually, my class' job prospect rate is practically in the 95-100% range.

I honestly think yes, the articles are somewhat true, but you also have to ask the graduates of now too and look deeper into different areas. If you really put your mind to it and work hard and do everything you can, then yes, you'll be able to find a job. What I also notice is that most people want to take the easy way out and stay in a big city or metropolis area. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, at least anymore. You have to start from the bottom, maybe in a less desirable area, then save money and move up while looking for jobs once you have enough experience and connections.

I received 3 full time offers but declined them due to residency matching. Which means either people are not looking hard enough or they dont have the connection into the pharmacy world established.

I mean that's the problem being addressed in the study as well. Graduates don't want to move to barren towns in the middle of nowhere. Even in some towns in Texas, I hear of people having to move far far out from their homes to their jobs. Getting offers from employers that are very far away is a bad sign. Like it definitely isn't a good sign? You know? Also, graduates are employed but the pharmacy school sites never ask what they are actually employed as. They just survey the students and ask if they are employed, and that can mean anything pharmacy or non-pharmacy related. Also, they don't ask if it's full time or part time or not. I have three friends in the east coast area who went to school with me in undergrad. They had low marks and decided their "dream" was pharmacy...well now I'm working in a hospital as well as attending medical school (in the east coast as well) and they beg me every week if I know of any pharmacists or anyone to give them a connections. All the jobs in the east coast and west coast are completely dried up. There are none left. And the sad part is, it's happening in the Midwest and south areas now. It's not just going to stop? New pharmacy schools that try to reel in literally anyone every year pop up. And students here get defensive about it? Idk how they can be in such denial? My colleagues are literally trying to go masters now, still living with their parents, have insane amounts of debt that now their parents are helping with to pay off...for what? For nothing man...the saturation issue is deep and schools know about this. They told me that their deans and professors all pushed them very hard to go for residency because that's the only way to get a job anymore for the majority. Or to at least have an advantage over millions of other honestly speaking low standard grade students. Cmon? Seriously? The field is so saturated now that the 4 year programs are turning into 5 or 6 year programs because students must do residency. What if you don't get into residency? A lot of students don't...what do they do? Lemme tell you. They float. FLOATERS is a key word in the pharmacy world now and that is whole heartedly not a good thing at all. They get employed a year a later after moving several states or what not and it doesn't stop there. They will have to hold down two part time jobs. The honest truth is there is employment but it's all part time now. There literally are no great full time positions anymore, definitely not here in the east coast. If anyone is even thinking of going to pharmacy school, don't even think about about applying to east coast or west coast cities. You guys won't be staying here after graduation, because there is no work here at all. Like...? Why are people in such denial...

 

[impatientcollegestudent]

What I find weird is that people know there is a surplus of pharmacists (at least in the major metropolis areas), but there are deficits of pharmacists in the more rural/less desirable areas. Graduating pharmacy school w/ a class of 260, all of us have jobs from what I know. Whether it be a regular job or residency or fellowship or pursuing another degree, at least all of us have somewhere to go. Actually, my class' job prospect rate is practically in the 95-100% range.

I honestly think yes, the articles are somewhat true, but you also have to ask the graduates of now too and look deeper into different areas. If you really put your mind to it and work hard and do everything you can, then yes, you'll be able to find a job. What I also notice is that most people want to take the easy way out and stay in a big city or metropolis area. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, at least anymore. You have to start from the bottom, maybe in a less desirable area, then save money and move up while looking for jobs once you have enough experience and connections.

I received 3 full time offers but declined them due to residency matching. Which means either people are not looking hard enough or they dont have the connection into the pharmacy world established.

How hard is it to build connections that can hook you up with full time jobs though?

 

[UGAZ]

I've said this many times and I am telling you again. If you want to know how bad or good the job market where you live is, it is not that hard. All you have to do is picking up the phone and start calling around for jobs. Call Walgreens District managers....say you're a licensed pharmacist looking for work and see what they say. That's all. Same goes with hospitals. If they show no interest or ask you to fax resume and then you hear nothing...that is a very bad sign.
Pharmacy is super saturated now and it's going to get a lot worse.

 

[AHossain]

I've said this many times and I am telling you again. If you want to know how bad or good the job market where you live is, it is not that hard. All you have to do is picking up the phone and start calling around for jobs. Call Walgreens District managers....say you're a licensed pharmacist looking for work and see what they say. That's all. Same goes with hospitals. If they show no interest or ask you to fax resume and then you hear nothing...that is a very bad sign.
Pharmacy is super saturated now and it's going to get a lot worse.

I actually went to my local pharmacist here and asked him if he had time to talk to me since I was a prospective student. He mentioned the whole saturation issue and how moving is the ideal option to find a job nowadays. Building strong networks with trustworthy people form the get go is key. He also mentioned that there are thousands of new grads every year and the older pharmacists are actually not retiring at all. I asked him if he was considering it, and he said he was before years ago, but now with all the saturation he feels safe and secure to just stay in his position for a long time now. This is concerning since old pharmacists aren't retiring and new ones won't be able to replace them anytime soon.


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[impatientcollegestudent]

I actually went to my local pharmacist here and asked him if he had time to talk to me since I was a prospective student. He mentioned the whole saturation issue and how moving is the ideal option to find a job nowadays. Building strong networks with trustworthy people form the get go is key. He also mentioned that there are thousands of new grads every year and the older pharmacists are actually not retiring at all. I asked him if he was considering it, and he said he was before years ago, but now with all the saturation he feels safe and secure to just stay in his position for a long time now. This is concerning since old pharmacists aren't retiring and new ones won't be able to replace them anytime soon.


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I did this very same thing as well and got similar responses from graduates and pharmacists. Honestly, people here are getting defensive about facts. It's freaking weird. I advice everyone here to have a true one and one with the people in the actual work field to see for themselves. The pharmacists will be genuine with you.

 

[vm26]

Yup. I was like you this year. But now I'm thinking of going another healthcare (nurse practitioner or even anesthesiologist assistant like another thread here explained) route with actual stability and pay. The saturation has increased and the BLS reported that there will be no stop to it at all by lowering the employment rate below national average of ALL jobs...it's pathetic. It went from 14% growth to 3%.... within a few years...You got people on this forum saying they got in with 2.5s and they seriously ask why the market is saturated lol.

would go with NP/CRNA/PA...

 

[pharmasaurusRex17]

How hard is it to build connections that can hook you up with full time jobs though?

It's actually not hard haha; or maybe I joined the right organizations for what I was personally looking for. Because of it and the school itself, it pulled me to open up a whole new world that I never thought I would realize. Because of it, I have friends and colleagues all over the US as well

 

[EastBay80]

It's actually not hard haha; or maybe I joined the right organizations for what I was personally looking for. Because of it and the school itself, it pulled me to open up a whole new world that I never thought I would realize. Because of it, I have friends and colleagues all over the US as well

This is called luck!

 

[Jhunter]

I mean that's the problem being addressed in the study as well. Graduates don't want to move to barren towns in the middle of nowhere. Even in some towns in Texas, I hear of people having to move far far out from their homes to their jobs. Getting offers from employers that are very far away is a bad sign. Like it definitely isn't a good sign? You know? Also, graduates are employed but the pharmacy school sites never ask what they are actually employed as. They just survey the students and ask if they are employed, and that can mean anything pharmacy or non-pharmacy related. Also, they don't ask if it's full time or part time or not. I have three friends in the east coast area who went to school with me in undergrad. They had low marks and decided their "dream" was pharmacy...well now I'm working in a hospital as well as attending medical school (in the east coast as well) and they beg me every week if I know of any pharmacists or anyone to give them a connections. All the jobs in the east coast and west coast are completely dried up. There are none left. And the sad part is, it's happening in the Midwest and south areas now. It's not just going to stop? New pharmacy schools that try to reel in literally anyone every year pop up. And students here get defensive about it? Idk how they can be in such denial? My colleagues are literally trying to go masters now, still living with their parents, have insane amounts of debt that now their parents are helping with to pay off...for what? For nothing man...the saturation issue is deep and schools know about this. They told me that their deans and professors all pushed them very hard to go for residency because that's the only way to get a job anymore for the majority. Or to at least have an advantage over millions of other honestly speaking low standard grade students. Cmon? Seriously? The field is so saturated now that the 4 year programs are turning into 5 or 6 year programs because students must do residency. What if you don't get into residency? A lot of students don't...what do they do? Lemme tell you. They float. FLOATERS is a key word in the pharmacy world now and that is whole heartedly not a good thing at all. They get employed a year a later after moving several states or what not and it doesn't stop there. They will have to hold down two part time jobs. The honest truth is there is employment but it's all part time now. There literally are no great full time positions anymore, definitely not here in the east coast. If anyone is even thinking of going to pharmacy school, don't even think about about applying to east coast or west coast cities. You guys won't be staying here after graduation, because there is no work here at all. Like...? Why are people in such denial...

Honestly...everyone visiting this sub forum should take some time to actually read this. This guy just preached the damn truth and warned you all. Seriously...everything he just said is absolutely non-arguable. Probably one of the best posts I've read sadly...

 

[EastBay80]

Honestly...everyone visiting this sub forum should take some time to actually read this. This guy just preached the damn truth and warned you all. Seriously...everything he just said is absolutely non-arguable. Probably one of the best posts I've read sadly...

Agree.

I mean that's the problem being addressed in the study as well. Graduates don't want to move to barren towns in the middle of nowhere. Even in some towns in Texas, I hear of people having to move far far out from their homes to their jobs. Getting offers from employers that are very far away is a bad sign. Like it definitely isn't a good sign? You know? Also, graduates are employed but the pharmacy school sites never ask what they are actually employed as. They just survey the students and ask if they are employed, and that can mean anything pharmacy or non-pharmacy related. Also, they don't ask if it's full time or part time or not. I have three friends in the east coast area who went to school with me in undergrad. They had low marks and decided their "dream" was pharmacy...well now I'm working in a hospital as well as attending medical school (in the east coast as well) and they beg me every week if I know of any pharmacists or anyone to give them a connections. All the jobs in the east coast and west coast are completely dried up. There are none left. And the sad part is, it's happening in the Midwest and south areas now. It's not just going to stop? New pharmacy schools that try to reel in literally anyone every year pop up. And students here get defensive about it? Idk how they can be in such denial? My colleagues are literally trying to go masters now, still living with their parents, have insane amounts of debt that now their parents are helping with to pay off...for what? For nothing man...the saturation issue is deep and schools know about this. They told me that their deans and professors all pushed them very hard to go for residency because that's the only way to get a job anymore for the majority. Or to at least have an advantage over millions of other honestly speaking low standard grade students. Cmon? Seriously? The field is so saturated now that the 4 year programs are turning into 5 or 6 year programs because students must do residency. What if you don't get into residency? A lot of students don't...what do they do? Lemme tell you. They float. FLOATERS is a key word in the pharmacy world now and that is whole heartedly not a good thing at all. They get employed a year a later after moving several states or what not and it doesn't stop there. They will have to hold down two part time jobs. The honest truth is there is employment but it's all part time now. There literally are no great full time positions anymore, definitely not here in the east coast. If anyone is even thinking of going to pharmacy school, don't even think about about applying to east coast or west coast cities. You guys won't be staying here after graduation, because there is no work here at all. Like...? Why are people in such denial...

I believe this is true and the most popular situation happening to most new grads.

 

[pharmasaurusRex17]

I guess it's happening to those who refuse to move unfortunately. Majority of my class is from out of state, which is probably why we all got full time in pretty large cities. The upper half of my class is also the type to work 2-3 jobs, and do all these other things, on top of research, and whatnot. That and we're all 23-24 and not tied down compared to most PharmD students.

A lot of my friends back south in CA have found full time jobs pretty easily as well in areas like Berkeley, SF, Saratoga, Napa/Sonoma, Vallejo, Fairfield..., but they graduated from schools like USC, UCSF.

My little brother is also in his 2nd year of med school at age 19, and he's seen a lot of the pharm students at his school get jobs right out full time on the east coast in Buffalo, outskirts NYC, Pittsburgh, Philly, etc.

What I guess I mean is instead of complaining, why not work hard and go above and beyond? I mentor students this way and underclassmen. I tell them yes the market is hard, but I also coach them on how to network, activities, research, and have gotten countless of my interns jobs at the hospitals around greater Boston and outskirts Boston. I don't expect less from them, and I'm harsh but I explain to them why. That way they understand, and they push hard to compete against those who come from higher tier schools. If I could, I'd coach and do a ton of things (Granted I am one of those energizer bunny types) for many people on here, it's more so if they ask for help and take time to talk to me like a lot of my students have.

 

[EastBay80]

I guess it's happening to those who refuse to move unfortunately. Majority of my class is from out of state, which is probably why we all got full time in pretty large cities. The upper half of my class is also the type to work 2-3 jobs, and do all these other things, on top of research, and whatnot. That and we're all 23-24 and not tied down compared to most PharmD students.

A lot of my friends back south in CA have found full time jobs pretty easily as well in areas like Berkeley, SF, Saratoga, Napa/Sonoma, Vallejo, Fairfield..., but they graduated from schools like USC, UCSF.

My little brother is also in his 2nd year of med school at age 19, and he's seen a lot of the pharm students at his school get jobs right out full time on the east coast in Buffalo, outskirts NYC, Pittsburgh, Philly, etc.

What I guess I mean is instead of complaining, why not work hard and go above and beyond? I mentor students this way and underclassmen. I tell them yes the market is hard, but I also coach them on how to network, activities, research, and have gotten countless of my interns jobs at the hospitals around greater Boston and outskirts Boston. I don't expect less from them, and I'm harsh but I explain to them why. That way they understand, and they push hard to compete against those who come from higher tier schools. If I could, I'd coach and do a ton of things (Granted I am one of those energizer bunny types) for many people on here, it's more so if they ask for help and take time to talk to me like a lot of my students have.

Whoever already in should continue. If they're willing to move or to be floater and not picky, they'll be fine. However, whoever just starts pre-pharm should consider stopping or switching if possible.
I believe it'll getting worse and worse.
Not many starters go to this forum, unfortunately, to be informed early on.

 

[LoveWillSaveTheDay]

I guess it's happening to those who refuse to move unfortunately. Majority of my class is from out of state, which is probably why we all got full time in pretty large cities. The upper half of my class is also the type to work 2-3 jobs, and do all these other things, on top of research, and whatnot. That and we're all 23-24 and not tied down compared to most PharmD students.

A lot of my friends back south in CA have found full time jobs pretty easily as well in areas like Berkeley, SF, Saratoga, Napa/Sonoma, Vallejo, Fairfield..., but they graduated from schools like USC, UCSF.

My little brother is also in his 2nd year of med school at age 19, and he's seen a lot of the pharm students at his school get jobs right out full time on the east coast in Buffalo, outskirts NYC, Pittsburgh, Philly, etc.

What I guess I mean is instead of complaining, why not work hard and go above and beyond? I mentor students this way and underclassmen. I tell them yes the market is hard, but I also coach them on how to network, activities, research, and have gotten countless of my interns jobs at the hospitals around greater Boston and outskirts Boston. I don't expect less from them, and I'm harsh but I explain to them why. That way they understand, and they push hard to compete against those who come from higher tier schools. If I could, I'd coach and do a ton of things (Granted I am one of those energizer bunny types) for many people on here, it's more so if they ask for help and take time to talk to me like a lot of my students have.

Agree 100%.

 

[RandomDuck]

Whoever already in should continue. If they're willing to move or to be floater and not picky, they'll be fine. However, whoever just starts pre-pharm should consider stopping or switching if possible.
I believe it'll getting worse and worse.
Not many starters go to this forum, unfortunately, to be informed early on.

People who are already in are going and trying alternative routes as well. But pre-pharmers are going in knowing heavily what the field is like now.

 

[OxToCA]

I wish these reports were out when my colleagues were in school. They graduated now but are currently unemployed for these very reasons. One is even going for an additional masters degree now, which isn't unheard of in this field anymore.

A few of my MSc classmates in pharmaceutical science are pharmacists that want to do things like work in biotech, be professors, go into business, etc. There are some awesome jobs out there in industry for PharmD's with the right training and experience, like being a Medical Science Liaison for a pharmaceutical company (what I want to do) which can pay 170+/year.

 

[Amicable Angora]

I know people have been saying that there are jobs out there, that they are likely in rural or undesirable areas. That's good and all, but it's really hard to robotically preplan your life out that far ahead. Sure, you can say "after I graduate, I am going to go work in XYZ place," for a couple years then move on, but saying is different than doing.

It's like how everyone makes New Year resolutions and then the majority fall through. Furthermore, the future really can't be predicted. You could find your future partner, you could end up breaking up with your SO during school, you could end up doing a residency instead, etc. etc. With a residency, suddenly your schooling becomes 5, maybe even 6 years.

While you might think doing a residency would help your chances to secure one of these boonie jobs, it's not always the case. Then there's always the issue of doing a residency to end up in retail. I think we can agree that the majority of people would not want to spend an extra year's worth of schooling to end up in a retail position in an undesirable location. It's a waste of time and money. Then you already raise some more eyebrows when you apply with a residency to one of these jobs. Management can smell your intention of leaving at a moment's notice for a better opportunity a mile away. So you might even disqualify yourself from these jobs.

Then the long suffering and burning starts as you start working at a place where you know no one, have no access to modern day amenities (the luxury kinds, I don't mean water, electricity, although some places are like that...). Then there's always the chance that the market crashes even further and you can't transfer out. You try to go back to somewhere desirable like Cali for example, and they won't hire you because they think you were just jerking off in the middle of nowhere.

Before you know it, 10 years have gone by between the time you started pharmacy school and your career will have gone nowhere. I personally know someone who ended up in a situation like this, so this is a very real scenario that you could easily run into.