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Does going to an Ivy league for undergrad increase your chances of getting into medical school?
Does going to an Ivy league for undergrad increase your chances of getting into medical school?
As a population those who graduate from an Ivy League schools have drive, determination to be identified as excellent, excellent HS grades and test scores (which are correlated with overall book smarts), and have worked hard enough and behaved well enough to earn a diploma. I would suspect that proportionally, they are more likely that the population of all college graduates in a given year to have parents who attended an Ivy League institution and as a group they have a higher median family income than all college graduates nationwide.
I suspect that having the book-smarts and/or family connections and/or family money to be admitted to an Ivy League school and the work ethic and self-control to avoid being kicked out of one might be indicative of the characteristics that will make it likely to be admitted to a medical school.
So it is not going to an Ivy League that makes it more likely to get into med school but that going says something about your book-smarts and other characteristics. A group of applicants who choose Stanford and Duke over Havard & Princeton may have an equal chace of getting into med school as those who go to Ivy League schools.
That said, there is something to be said about "fit". Not every excellent high school senior who has what it takes to go on to medical school can or should go to an Ivy League school. Some are better suited for smaller schools, bigger schools, schools outside of the northeastern US, etc. Hundreds of colleges send graduates to medical school each year. One particular athletic league does not have a monopoly on admissions.
Furthermore, just matriculating at an Ivy will not get you in. If you have lackluster grades at an Ivy, minimal exposure to medicine, poorly written essays, or an otherwise weak application, you will not get in.
I go to a top public school, and I feel that because of that, I am better prepared for the rigor that is med school. You sink or swim here, there is no hand holding, no sucking on the teet. I feel like Ivys do not help students prepare for the real world, and that the earlier you learn, the better equipped you will be.
I feel like Ivys do not help students prepare for the real world
and your basis for this is... ?
LizzyM's post was pretty much the definitive one in this thread (and on this topic, for crying out loud). Please, think twice before insulting vast swaths of schools and students that aren't you. It's the same sort of ugliness that gives rise to the pointless "state school" ridicule that infects so many at those private schools.
Does going to an Ivy league for undergrad increase your chances of getting into medical school?
I have yet to see a medical school website list undergraduate prestige as a criteria that is considered for applicants, so that should answer your question.
Riiiiiiiight because no one has every been accepted into an ivy league school because of who his parents are.If you were an adcom faced with 13,000 apps, wouldn't you use whatever means at your disposal to predict which students will succeed? I GUARANTEE that any Ivy or other top school grad with a 3.4 and 32 MCAT WILL excel in med school. You just cannot say that about all undergrad schools.
This is not related to how you perform as a student. I'm not even going to get into your comment about late deadlines etc. because that does not exist at my school (top 10) and really highlights your lack of understanding/bitterness(?) about elite schools. I get thrown to your fabled wolves everyday in my classes because I am surrounded by some of the best students in the US. Also, its great to have advisors to recommend paths/courses so you make the best decisions. That is not babying, that is being intelligent about your future and maximizing your options, options that you may not realize existed without an advisor's help.I'm not talking about academic rigor. Im talking about the idea it top public schools, you must simply fight and work harder to do the things you want to do, and push for your dreams. No ridiculously late drop deadlines, no grade inflation, no advisors that lead you every single baby step along the way.
Don't get me wrong. I am not bitter towards Ivy schools (I did not apply to any private chool as an undergrad). Perhaps my understanding is off, but all of my understanding comes from firends who attend those institutions. And from what I can gather, that is how I feel.
I guess I just get irked when Ivy students assume that they are with the brightest and smartest kids in the nation becuase of the school. There are many of other students who are just (if not more) qualified to attend, but who do not have the connections or monetary resources to be part of the institution.
And though I will admit that lots of Ivy students have competed hard to get into thier school, once in, it is made eaiser for students to succeed.
Don't get me wrong. I am not bitter towards Ivy schools (I did not apply to any private chool as an undergrad). Perhaps my understanding is off, but all of my understanding comes from firends who attend those institutions. And from what I can gather, that is how I feel.
I guess I just get irked when Ivy students assume that they are with the brightest and smartest kids in the nation becuase of the school. There are many of other students who are just (if not more) qualified to attend, but who do not have the connections or monetary resources to be part of the institution.
And though I will admit that lots of Ivy students have competed hard to get into thier school, once in, it is made eaiser for students to succeed.
Going to Yale might help when it comes time to apply to Yale's medical school, but don't expect the admissions committee at SUNY Downstate to loose their minds because you went to an ivy league.
Riiiiiiiight because no one has every been accepted into an ivy league school because of who his parents are.
"Top public" schools do not have a monopoloy on a lack of hand holding--you really don't know what you're talking about. That is all I have to add to this conversation.I go to a top public school, and I feel that because of that, I am better prepared for the rigor that is med school. You sink or swim here, there is no hand holding, no sucking on the teet. I feel like Ivys do not help students prepare for the real world, and that the earlier you learn, the better equipped you will be.
Gross generalizations are a terrible thing. On the other hand, a disproportionate number of people who have made disparaging comments about my undergrad to my face within the first 10 minutes of meeting me (!) have been Berkeley grads/students. And now I really am done.I don't know what it is about UC Berk in particular, but all the "public schools are the best in the world" snobbishness comes from people from UC Berk. People from UCLA are always pretty chill, they have no jealousies about Caltech. People from UNC Chapel Hill might be rivals with Duke, but they hardly make as many pompous statements. It might have something to do with UC Berk kids thinking they are Harvard because of their #1 public ranking.
I don't know what it is about UC Berk in particular, but all the "public schools are the best in the world" snobbishness comes from people from UC Berk. People from UCLA are always pretty chill, they have no jealousies about Caltech. People from UNC Chapel Hill might be rivals with Duke, but they hardly make as many pompous statements. It might have something to do with UC Berk kids thinking they are Harvard because of their #1 public ranking.
15%??? Thats 1 out of every 7 students!!! So, you're saying that yale DOESN'T accept a lot of students with connections?Keep telling yourself that. Actually, Yale admissions office recently published statistics that fewer than 15% of each class has a family member who went to Yale and the numbers (GPA and SATs) for those students are actually HIGHER than the average for the non-legacy students.
But if it makes you feel better, keep telling yourself that all the Ivy League kids are there because of connections.
Whatever gets you through the night.
15%??? Thats 1 out of every 7 students!!! So, you're saying that yale DOESN'T accept a lot of students with connections?
Of course you would be extremely qualified if you're parents were able to completely plan your future for you and educate you on what you have to do in order to be successful early on. In that case you wouldn't have to worry about planning for your self, you could just do what they recommend and become that qualified person. I'm just saying that 15% is a lot of people with connections.not saying it's a lot or a little. did you miss the part about how the legacy students are AS qualified or MORE qualified than the other students?
Of course you would be extremely qualified if you're parents were able to completely plan your future for you and educate you on what you have to do in order to be successful early on. In that case you wouldn't have to worry about planning for your self, you could just do what they recommend and become that qualified person. I'm just saying that 15% is a lot of people with connections.
I think that people from Berkeley get a lot of credit. It's very well known all over the country, particularly in the sciences. Lots of people from out of state try to get into Berkeley every year and would be psyched to go there.People from Berkeley deserve more credit. I don't go to Berkeley so don't flame me.
Don't get me wrong. I am not bitter towards Ivy schools (I did not apply to any private chool as an undergrad). Perhaps my understanding is off, but all of my understanding comes from firends who attend those institutions. And from what I can gather, that is how I feel.
I guess I just get irked when Ivy students assume that they are with the brightest and smartest kids in the nation becuase of the school. There are many of other students who are just (if not more) qualified to attend, but who do not have the connections or monetary resources to be part of the institution.
And though I will admit that lots of Ivy students have competed hard to get into thier school, once in, it is made eaiser for students to succeed.
BUT THIS IS NOT UNIQUE TO IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS!!!! so it is silly to criticize them for it when ALL schools do it.
What is so hard to understand about that?
Quote from Yale President Levin:
"It's important to understand that being a legacy does not guarantee admission to Yale College. But the pool of legacy applicants is substantially stronger than the average of the rest of the pool. The grades and test scores of the legacies we admit are higher than the average of the rest of the admitted class, and the legacies that matriculate achieve higher grades at Yale than non-legacy students with the same high school grades and test scores."
So perhaps it is actually MORE difficult to get accepted as a legacy if you are competing against a more qualified pool.
I am sure the presidents of UVA, Berkeley, Michigan, UNC, etc, would say about the same thing.
I don't know why this bother me so much. It is the illogical and uninformed nature of the arguments that makes them so vexing. (and the Ivy-envy is pretty annoying too.)
I'm done.
People from UCLA are always pretty chill, they have no jealousies about Caltech. .
I'm not talking about academic rigor. I'm talking about the idea it top public schools, you must simply fight and work harder to do the things you want to do, and push for your dreams. No ridiculously late drop deadlines, no grade inflation, no advisors that lead you every single baby step along the way. Its great that many people at Ivys have the luxury of these accommodations, but there is nobody to baby you though the real world. I have many friends at Ivys and top private institutions that tell me about these things every time we get together. All I am saying is that the earlier that you have the experience of getting thrown to the wolves, the more prepared you will be able to deal with your medical career in the future.
I don't know what it is about UC Berk in particular, but all the "public schools are the best in the world" snobbishness comes from people from UC Berk. People from UCLA are always pretty chill, they have no jealousies about Caltech. People from UNC Chapel Hill might be rivals with Duke, but they hardly make as many pompous statements. It might have something to do with UC Berk kids thinking they are Harvard because of their #1 public ranking.
At Cornell most curves are set to a 2.7/3.0 (B- to B). No Ivy League school inflates grades in science courses.I don't know anything about grade inflation or grade deflation, but at my university, which isn't Ivy league, all the classes are curved and the average is always set to a 2.7. Are Ivy League schools average set higher than this or not curved?
well if we just look at numbers, i think the answer is a resounding yes.Does going to an Ivy league for undergrad increase your chances of getting into medical school?
At Cornell most curves are set to a 2.7/3.0 (B- to B). No Ivy League school inflates grades in science courses.
Most students aren't overtly cutthroat but there's a tacit competitiveness in most classes that grade on a curve. The aptitude and work ethic of the kids in my classes seem to be clustered around around the top, in stark contrast to what I've seen at my state's flagship....
The diverse spectrum of intelligence at public schools is the main difference from top-ranked universities. I think some medical schools take this into consideration and view Ivy League undergrads as pre-vetted, safer admits for having already passed through a stringent admissions filter. Others probably don't give a ****.
It's also disingenuous to suggest that all liberal arts classes are inflated. In my experience, it's a quite a big deal to get an A in classics or philosophy.
A 3.0 average sounds pretty inflated (its a whole 0.3 more than other schools).There is really no argument for people who say that there is no grade inflation at these schools or other top private schools. Someone a while back posted the average gpa's from public and private schools and the average gpa for private ones is ALOT higher.
Grade inflation is not arguable, its a fact.
Also when a school has grade inflation, and then deflates their grades, that just puts them back to a normal grading distribution or maybe even higher then a normal one but still lower then their previous grade inflation.
Well don't get your panties in a bunch because core pre-med classes like orgo are set at 2.7 and some engr/physics classes are set at 2.3A 3.0 average sounds pretty inflated (its a whole 0.3 more than other schools).