Job Application 2020-2021

[psychfi]

I know I am early...I started my PostDoc end of August. With that being said, anyone else worried about applying for jobs...VA positions mainly.

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[summerbabe]

VA positions mainly

The good thing is that there will likely always be jobs at the VA. Whether you'll be happy in that job is a whole different ballgame since you're more likely to be looking at high turnover positions because interfacility transfers often snap up more desirable positions before they ever hit the competitive process.

I found a VA staff psychologist position following a VA postdoc and the process definitely sucked. USAJobs is terrible and I was getting calls about interviewing for positions 5+ month after applying while never being referred from HR to hiring managers for many others that I met qualifications for.

Timing is hard because you can't apply too early but you also can't wait too long because onboarding takes forever. Some sites may 'hold' positions longer for you to finish postdoc while others will want somebody to start ASAP and I think a lot depends on supply/demand in that local marketplace and whether it's a general position or something more specialized that you're a good fit for.

If you're interested/able to stay at your postdoc site (if you're doing a VA postdoc), some sites hire a lot of interns and postdocs when they have openings and you'll hopefully have the benefit of knowing more firsthand about specific clinics and places to avoid, if possible.

I'm also pretty sure I heard that the VA trainee match program they launched 2 years ago will be back this year but it's not super helpful if you're either geographically limited or looking for something very specific.

 

[WisNeuro]

You'll likely be in a good position jobs-wise. I'm willing to bet hiring picks up in healthcare in the 2nd half of 2021 to make up for all of the hiring freezes and layoffs. If you have to accept a job outside of the VA, you can just look at that as icing on the cake and thankful you didn't waste any more time there

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I know I am early...I started my PostDoc end of August. With that being said, anyone else worried about applying for jobs...VA positions mainly.

It's also important to realize that the average VA outpatient provider/psychotherapist position has change quite a bit in the past 5-8 years in terms of additional paperwork/documentation and juggling/struggling with multiple buggy software programs even during sessions. They just keep adding requirements (which routinely mandate multiple separate notes per encounter and usually no time built in for documentation). It's been do-able--though frustrating--as I've had to absorb the additions of each new requirement incrementally (rarely is one removed and they are steadily being added mostly for BS political or public relations reasons). I could not imagine being an intern or new hire at VA right now and trying to learn/implement it all at once while also trying to spare some cognitive resources for actual meaningful case review/formulation, treatment planning, a lit review.

 

[summerbabe]

as I've had to absorb the additions of each new requirement incrementally (rarely is one removed and they are steadily being added mostly for BS political or public relations reasons)

Ain't that the truth!

Recently, I walked through a new hire (who has 10+ years of non-VA LIP experience) through a very specific intake process via screensharing on Teams and between toggling between CPRS and MHA to input outcome measures, explaining differences between selecting visits and closing encounters, linking multiple notes to a specific visit, historical versus billable encounters, ins and outs of when to do and not do a CSRE, etc and I was probably more exhausted after that than if I had been doing the actual intake.

 

[cara susanna]

For what it's worth, I actually found the job application process a million times easier than the internship and post doc application process. And these were all VA jobs.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Ain't that the truth!

Recently, I walked through a new hire (who has 10+ years of non-VA LIP experience) through a very specific intake process via screensharing on Teams and between toggling between CPRS and MHA to input outcome measures, explaining differences between selecting visits and closing encounters, linking multiple notes to a specific visit, historical versus billable encounters, ins and outs of when to do and not do a CSRE, etc and I was probably more exhausted after that than if I had been doing the actual intake.

And...

Get ready to juggle the separate Behavioral Health Lab (BHL) software program on top of that sandwich--I was luckily voluntold to be part of the pilot at my site. Right now, I have to use it to enter (read aloud) PCL5 items during session.

 

[cara susanna]

I thought BHL was just for PCMHI

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I thought BHL was just for PCMHI

Not at our site. I was told we were the guinea pigs to iron it out prior to rolling it out system-wide....all rhe folks who have to use BHL here are not in PCMHI. Just goes to show how different VAs do things differently.

 

[member978]

Also going through the job application process here - starting off with applying for academic jobs. A little unsure about my fit and chances with the types of programs hiring, and potentially there are fewer schools hiring due to financial trouble. Still giving it a try and will wait to see how it shakes out. I am currently in a VA postdoc and so if academic jobs dont work out, next I'll starting searching for VA jobs.

 

[summerbabe]

Still giving it a try and will wait to see how it shakes out. I am currently in a VA postdoc and so if academic jobs dont work out, next I'll starting searching for VA jobs.

Check out VA MIRECC jobs or research postdocs if you any of them align with your research interests.

 

[IWillSurvive]

I thought BHL was just for PCMHI

same...

 

[IWillSurvive]

Not at our site. I was told we were the guinea pigs to iron it out prior to rolling it out system-wide....all rhe folks who have to use BHL here are not in PCMHI. Just goes to show how different VAs do things differently.

We are rolling out the MH Checkup, which actually sounds useful if veterans will actually complete the measures before sessions. Not holding my breath on that one...

 

[IWillSurvive]

It's also important to realize that the average VA outpatient provider/psychotherapist position has change quite a bit in the past 5-8 years in terms of additional paperwork/documentation and juggling/struggling with multiple buggy software programs even during sessions. They just keep adding requirements (which routinely mandate multiple separate notes per encounter and usually no time built in for documentation). It's been do-able--though frustrating--as I've had to absorb the additions of each new requirement incrementally (rarely is one removed and they are steadily being added mostly for BS political or public relations reasons). I could not imagine being an intern or new hire at VA right now and trying to learn/implement it all at once while also trying to spare some cognitive resources for actual meaningful case review/formulation, treatment planning, a lit review.

THIS, all of this. I feel like I am constantly saying this to coworkers. And at our site, they are now tying our performance appraisals to whether we have every expected thing documented in the chart (safety plan for every veteran we encounter in MH, comprehensive risk assessment for everyone in MH, Treatment Plan, etc). If I were the veteran, I would quit therapy before it ever began due to all the required documentation taking up sessions on the front end. Also, when they updated the performance appraisal standards, they were initially saying more than 2 late encounters in a performance period would equal less than fully successful or whatever the lingo is... and exceptional would mean you had zero! There were definitely some lively conversations with leadership in response to this...

I will say, I think your experience in VA depends highly on what VA you are employed at and the clinic/specialty area within that VA. Specialty program psychologists seem to enjoy their work alot more than BHIP psychologists from my experience...

 

[AcronymAllergy]

THIS, all of this. I feel like I am constantly saying this to coworkers. And at our site, they are now tying our performance appraisals to whether we have every expected thing documented in the chart (safety plan for every veteran we encounter in MH, comprehensive risk assessment for everyone in MH, Treatment Plan, etc). If I were the veteran, I would quit therapy before it ever began due to all the required documentation taking up sessions on the front end. Also, when they updated the performance appraisal standards, they were initially saying more than 2 late encounters in a performance period would equal less than fully successful or whatever the lingo is... and exceptional would mean you had zero! There were definitely some lively conversations with leadership in response to this...

I will say, I think your experience in VA depends highly on what VA you are employed at and the clinic/specialty area within that VA. Specialty program psychologists seem to enjoy their work alot more than BHIP psychologists from my experience...

CSRE and safety plan for every single MH patient? That seems...excessive. And unnecessary.

I would agree that VA positions will probably always be there, just not always in great locations. I've seen/heard more 100% telehealth positions being offered, which negates the need to relocate, but I'm not sure how much longer that trend will continue. And just me personally, I'd find it difficult to acclimate to VA from either a non-VA position or internship/postdoc if it were done entirely virtually; I'd have an easier time if I'd already been in a VA position for a few years.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

From my persepective, VA MH care is currently characterized by what you might call 'process/procedure tyranny' and elimination of individual provider autonomy and decision-making--which is, obviously, anathema to the process of well-implemented psychotherapeutic practices. The computer(ized) system has become a taskmaster to the clinician (rather than a helpful tool) and some days I find myself hoping that the day that the system collapses under its own wweight comes sooner rather than later.

One prototypical exemplar of this pathology is how 'MHSuite' 'Treatment Planning' is instantiated in a system that has absolutely zero team process.