Job market currently?

[medician]

Hi everyone,

I am a med student in California all set to apply into RadOnc but have limited contact with graduating residents. What's recently scary to me: I have come across 2 people including a RadOnc practicing at a county hospital nearby who warn me about job options, esp in California. I know academic positions are always limited but what about good private practice positions(?) - and I'm not talking about an old hospital with run-down equipment but a nicer, private hospital.

So: to those who are graduating - what is the job situation like? I still haven't ruled out other fields and would hate to have to worry about getting a job (in a desirable location) when done with residency.

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[medgator]

I can't say I was looking at the west coast at all wrt job opportunities, but from what I've heard, it's definitely a tighter market along the west coast, as well as the eastern seaboard if you are looking at big cities (NYC, Chicago, Boston, DC etc.)

 

[Gfunk6]

The job market in the Bay Area is difficult to penetrate at present mainly due to its current saturation with Rad Onc practices (both private and academic). However, if you do your residency in the Bay Area (UCSF, Stanford, CPMC) you are much more likely to procure a job there. Jobs in the LA market are a bit easier to come by but obviously this is a much more densely populated area than SF.

If you are interested in a job in the midwest, southwest, or southeast parts of the US, the job market is wide open. My mailbox is flooded with practices recruiting from these locations.

 

[Helo]

d

 

[Gfunk6]

Thanks GFunk6! Has it always been like that, where West/East coast and major cities have been very difficult to penetrate, while the other regions you mentioned are wide open?

Always? I don't know, I lack proper perspective to answer that question. It has been that way for all the years I've been looking (~4 or so).

 

[Helo]

d

 

[G'ville Nole]

Thanks GFunk6! Has it always been like that, where West/East coast and major cities have been very difficult to penetrate, while the other regions you mentioned are wide open? My wife and I actually really prefer the smaller cities and don't need to be on the East/West coast, so I hope that 5-6 yrs down the line, those types of job opportunities would still be available.

My perspective goes back about 5-6 years (i.e. connections with those who have interviewed for jobs), but yes, it has traditionally been a tighter market on the eastern seaboard (big cities from Wash DC through Boston) and on the California coast. Bay area seems to have been tougher than SoCal, but the opportunities in SoCal are typically pretty low paying even before you factor in the higher cost of living. If you don't mind smaller cities in other regions, you will have no problem finding a job.

 

[OTN]

California is going to be tough. The streets must be paved with gold and crack, because everyone from there seems to want to do nothing else but return. Unfortunately, it seems more from Cali are interested in "lifestyle" fields, so radonc is particulary tough.

Having said that, I interviewed for a couple private practice positions in CA, and academic jobs are usually not too difficult to come by. The job market in the Midwest, Southeast, Southwest, and parts of the Northeast seems to be good. Depends on location, though.

Radonc is a great field, but one big downside is, because of its size, you might not be able to get a job exactly where you wish to live. For example, I couldn't find a single job in Colorado last year when I was looking. I couldn't be happier in Austin, though, so as long as you're somewhat open-minded you'll be fine.

 

[medgator]

For example, I couldn't find a single job in Colorado last year when I was looking. I couldn't be happier in Austin, though, so as long as you're somewhat open-minded you'll be fine.

And lo and behold, a couple jobs in CO popped up on the ASTRO job center (a PP position in Denver, and an academic position at UC) this year. It seems like it is definitely hit and miss, depending on the year you're looking for a job.

 

[Adawaal]

Is it really that surprising? Rad Onc is no different than any of the other specialties. It's easy to recruit to and fill spots in the most desirable places to live, much harder to recruit to Podunkville. If you want a job in Rad Onc, there are no problems whatsoever.

Definitely more jobs than docs currently from the daily flood of opportunities in my mailbox (real and virtual). We all get these, many from "the beautiful Ozarks," or "beautiful northern Minnesota," or "wild wonderful West Virginia." For most of us, it would take seven figure compensation to move to one of those small towns, but for the motivated doc they represent amazing opportunities to build a practice, often without the rigors of a competitive market with a half dozen facilities in town.

 

[Gfunk6]

We all get these, many from "the beautiful Ozarks," or "beautiful northern Minnesota," or "wild wonderful West Virginia." For most of us, it would take seven figure compensation to move to one of those small towns, but for the motivated doc they represent amazing opportunities to build a practice, often without the rigors of a competitive market with a half dozen facilities in town.

Amen brother

 

[deleted4401]

But I think the point is that the year you graduate, you just may not find a job in the place you want to live, which is different than being a hospitalist or something.

For example, looked like 1 job in Portland this year and 1 job in Seattle. But, 4 in DC area this year. If you had your heart set on the Pacific NW, you might just have to take something somewhere else and hope for the best.

S

 

[radonc]

dont forget that the name/stature of your residency program plays a role in not only the location or stature of your job, but also the timing at which you get an offer.

 

[deleted4401]

Please elaborate, radonc...

 

[radonc]

Please elaborate, radonc...

lets just say there are 2 applicants applying for the same job, whether it be academics or private practice:
one from mdacc (or mskcc/harvard/michigan)
another from baylor (or nyu/tufts/wayne state)

and lets keep all things the same (gender, pubs, research experience, etc). chances are the person from the top tier program will likely be offered the job before a person from a avg/above avg program, because the prestige of the residency program is a stamp of approval and even a marketing tool. while the top tier applicant may not take it, and the job may ultimately be offered to the second applicant, many chairman have this 'wait and see' policy before moving forward with the process. im not saying they are a better doctor, but name recognition is huge in our field (for example we use our technology to market to patients).

now of course there are exceptions, but this is what i have seen & experienced.

 

[bragmt]

I absolutely agree with you; however I would hardly put Michigan in with Harvard and MSKCC. Its no secret that all else being equal of course the residency name does matter.

 

[deleted4401]

I don't disagree. I just wanted to know if you were saying what I was thinking.

I guess in a field where the name of school matters so much (look at Harvard match list last 4 years on SDN), it would make sense that practices would act the same as the residency programs would. Not that I was a great candidate or anything like that, but I was told that a few of the places I interviewed at/was offered a job at, that they only looked at people from top residencies. Clearly, UPMC isn't one of them and I'm no superstar, but I did get some decent looks, so it is definitely worth applying.

Yet, there was one practice that continues to have an ad up on ASTRO that is known to be very prestige oriented that didn't respond to my email on multiple different occasions (essentially, every time they reposted the ad, I would send a note). The people in this field can be very arrogant, but when you are looking for a job, you just kind of have to eat it.

S