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heybrother

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We've done a few of these in the semi-recent ie. last 2 years so you might look for those to see if we can avoid repeating all the same points.

1. Can you survive on $110K. Yeah, you just switched from probably making $40-60K but there are people with wild circumstances who need to make money right away. ie. your spouse had a job where you trained but she loses it when you move.

2. $110K on $300K in collections is 36.6% of collections. 30% after $300K is literally a paycut for your efforts. Its sadly common, but its still worth discussing/fighting for. Every point you can get over 30% matters. Dtrack found a hilarious thread in another forum where an endocrinologist was wondering if 50% of collections was acceptable. This is unfortunately the world we live in where 40% is some sort of often unobtainable ceiling.

3. I've had some friends with some weird stories - people who weren't allowed to find out what their collections were. Another who was told some BS story about how 30% meant something different than "collections x 30%".

4. What other benefits are offered?

Ideally they should pay for your health insurance. Quality may be variable. If you have family they may offer to pay your portion of a family plan but not your family's portion. My practice looked at the offering from the APMA last year - there were some interesting offers that I thought were better than what we currently have, but their were some insane offerings where if your practice kicked in $400 for your health insurance you were going to owe another $1500 for your family a month.

401k availability? Match?

Do you pay for malpractice. You should NOT, but I've had friends be told they were supposed to pay it. Keep in mind your future boss will be motivated to buy you a crappy claims made policy that will require you to pay tail if you leave. Occurrence policies tie off and aren't associated with tail.

How much for CME? I went to ACFAS + the billing course this year. Probably should have gotten a crappier hotel down the street but I wanted to walk. I stopped counting at $2500 cause I mixed in some family stuff. Cheaper stuff is out there, but regardless. You will need CME and it would be nice to have the chance to go to quality events.

5. Non-compete? Distance? Time. These are total crap.

6. What services does the practice offer? DME? Do you receive a cut of that. Can you ask to push your own stuff ie. a different brand of DME or ask for a 3D-scanner?

7. Will you be starting from scratch? Will you be expected to go to fairs and events to market yourself (but really the practice)? When do they think you'll be seeing 20 patients a day.

8. Will you have to service nursing homes? Take hospital call? Take ER call?

9. Can you just be furloughed in the event of Covid worsening in the area with your boss taking over your patients?

10. Terms of leaving/quitting ie. you give notice do you owe 2 weeks or 3 months?

11. Where will you operate? ie. where will you get credentialed/do cases/main OR/surgery center etc. Will you show up at a surgery center and be told you can't use this or that screw because your boss owns the center or some crap like that or that you have to use the clinic built in OR and just use k-wires.

12. Is their onsite garbage/"compounds", anti-fungals, laser whatever that you will expected to push.

13. Are their satellite clinics that you'll be expected to cover or travel to?

14. What EHR. Can you dictate ie. are they paying for dragon?

15. Do they have some sort of "marketing pitch" ie. they are telling you that you need to learn "their way" or "their system" which normally involves some sort of sequential bullcrap plan for withholding care from patients and dragging things out ie. you get a orthotic this visit, a night splint the next visit, an injection the visit after etc.

16. How many DPMs work there? ie. how many other associates and such. I've heard some weird stories of practices with like way too many associates each seeing 12-15 patients a day (that makes no sense).

17. (added after posting) - PTO?

You won't be able to get most of these things, but they are worth thinking about cause some of them will be the thing that drives you crazy later.
 
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GreenHousePub

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You know with an offer like that it may be time to look at some opportunities that you might not be able to afford down the road.

Public health service, Indian health service, other local community organizations? See what you could start up before you are worried about taking a pay cut to do them.

This sounds like a typical gig that you are going to be leaving in 3 years anyway.
 
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dtrack22

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I recieved an offer of 110k with 30% once I bring in 300k. It’s a very busy office. Would you consider this a good offer?

“good offer” is relative. As far as a podiatry contract goes that is very “average.” As was already pointed out, while a $300k collection threshold sounds great, you begin taking a pay cut (in terms of % collections) on that first dollar over $300k. Which makes no sense. Why would you take a smaller cut once you’ve paid for yourself and reduced that initial risk the practice took on by hiring you?

That’s a job you don’t stay at unless partnership is offered quickly and with a reasonable price tag. It probably won’t be either of those things...
 

Pronation

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Phenomenal post by heybrother and agree with everything. I wanted to expand on a couple things from his post. My comments in blue.

1. Can you survive on $110K. There's a reason the base is ridiculously low. It's because they know the practice doesn't have the patient load to pay you a higher guaranteed base salary and still siphon off 64% of your collections. The practice owner will lie through his teeth telling you about the patient load and how much you'll make after you hit "bonus". You can expect to make $110k your first year at this practice.

Do you pay for malpractice. You should NOT, but I've had friends be told they were supposed to pay it. Keep in mind your future boss will be motivated to buy you a crappy claims made policy that will require you to pay tail if you leave. Occurrence policies tie off and aren't associated with tail. I haven't heard of a podiatry private practice offering any associate/sucker an occurrence malpractice policy.

How much for CME? I went to ACFAS + the billing course this year. Probably should have gotten a crappier hotel down the street but I wanted to walk. I stopped counting at $2500 cause I mixed in some family stuff. Cheaper stuff is out there, but regardless. You will need CME and it would be nice to have the chance to go to quality events. Make sure to read the fine print on what the practice offers for CME. A lot of these cheap practice only offer to cover local/state CME events. IE - they aren't paying a dime for you to go to any ACFAS course.

5. Non-compete? Distance? Time. These are total crap. Yep, be careful with this one. If the practice has multiple locations, the non compete may squeeze you out entirely from that area of the state when you inevitably decide to leave.

7. Will you be starting from scratch? Will you be expected to go to fairs and events to market yourself (but really the practice)? When do they think you'll be seeing 20 patients a day. Good questions to ask. Unfortunately private practice owners will lie through their teeth. A good question to ask is how long they expect you to market the practice. IE - for how long are they going to be blocking off your schedule to force you to go out and give them free advertising

8. Will you have to service nursing homes? Take hospital call? Take ER call? The practice owner and "senior" partner(s) love to screw the associate on call. IE - Practice has 4 docs and call is 1 week every 4th week. This is fair. But then you'll find out that the senior doc conveniently doesn't have privileges at certain hospitals and so you'll be the backup call for that hospital while that doc is "on call". Complete BS.

13. Are their satellite clinics that you'll be expected to cover or travel to? Big one. If this is a practice with multiple locations, be sure it is in writing where you will be working. Otherwise I guarantee you will be driving all over the place.

16. How many DPMs work there? ie. how many other associates and such. I've heard some weird stories of practices with like way too many associates each seeing 12-15 patients a day (that makes no sense). This is probably the biggest one. Try to find out how many associates quit for a better gig (the owner will tell you that they were "bad" employees). Are there any other partners in the group or is it 1 owner and all associates? How much is buy in? There is a very simple reason for why some practices hire way too many associates - they know they are screwing the associates and expect them to quit once they realize how hard they're getting screwed. This way, when the associate quits, those 12 patients per day get dispersed throughout the practice until the next sucker gets hired.
 
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air bud

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Is there a sticky for questions to ask when looking at a new podiatry job? Let's make one.

Also, I think new grads should always negotiate an occurrence policy. Take whatever money they give you towards claims made, then you pay anything extra for occurrence. It will be maybe a few grand. 100 percent worth it. Non negotiable for hiring you. Protect yourself.
 

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Is there a sticky for questions to ask when looking at a new podiatry job? Let's make one.

There is one sticky created by @dtrack22 in 2016; I'm happy to make something more specific if you guys want.

 
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josebiwasabi

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Make sure you find out how they calculate what your collections are, make sure you can at least sit down quarterly with your office manager to review your billing and collections, and make sure DME is included as dispensing a custom Arizona brace can reimburse more than doing a triple arthrodesis (without the 90 day global!)
 

Scrantonicity

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I think that offer is as good as any you're going to find (strictly talking working private practice for another doctor). That's assuming there are other benefits, as mentioned above (at least CME + malpractice insurance and maybe at least a stipend for health insurance). Your first year, pretty much plan on making just the base salary. If you actually go above 300K, that'll be a nice surprise--but don't plan on it. You may come close, but it takes a while to get that patient base (let alone to get on insurance plans).

Anyways, after the first year, I think you could expect your salary to total anywhere from 140K to 160K the 2nd year (assuming you got a pretty good base of patients).

I think the wording on all of these offers are different, but on average--every contract that I've ever seen or heard about is designed to keep you pretty well below the $200K mark--you could probably call it around $175K once you're pretty far in and staying busy. More than that, and your contract may be "modified" to keep you in that sweet spot. This is why so many of us hate working for other podiatrists. The bigger salaries in private practice come from ownership of course.

You just have to decide if that's good enough for what you need--there are definitely benefits to just being an associate (especially if you're not taking much call and just working 8-5).
 
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hailey6565

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I think that offer is as good as any you're going to find (strictly talking working private practice for another doctor). That's assuming there are other benefits, as mentioned above (at least CME + malpractice insurance and maybe at least a stipend for health insurance). Your first year, pretty much plan on making just the base salary. If you actually go above 300K, that'll be a nice surprise--but don't plan on it. You may come close, but it takes a while to get that patient base (let alone to get on insurance plans).

Anyways, after the first year, I think you could expect your salary to total anywhere from 140K to 160K the 2nd year (assuming you got a pretty good base of patients).

I think the wording on all of these offers are different, but on average--every contract that I've ever seen or heard about is designed to keep you pretty well below the $200K mark--you could probably call it around $175K once you're pretty far in and staying busy. More than that, and your contract may be "modified" to keep you in that sweet spot. This is why so many of us hate working for other podiatrists. The bigger salaries in private practice come from ownership of course.

You just have to decide if that's good enough for what you need--there are definitely benefits to just being an associate (especially if you're not taking much call and just working 8-5).
If that is case when starting out as a new podiatrist would one recommend a new grad starting their own practice once graduating?
 
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PTPuser

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I know it's never too late...but yeah, if I could turn back time about 8 years....I would have told myself to man up and take the risk.

I know there's a lot of factors that goes into play but if you had to give an estimate, how much would a start up like that be? Equipment, office, supply etc like potential totally cost to get the doors open.
 
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SM761987

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I believe that some of the people that post on here underestimate the risk that goes into "just starting out on your own after residency before joining a pod group." Yes getting underpaid and working for a pod group does suck, however, many residencies do not provide equal training in practice management and billing/coding. A new grad may face a ton of challenges opening up on their own have to gain a good understanding of medicaid/medicare/commercial insurance plans/coverage, DME, and DM shoes just to name a few. There so much documentation involved that nowadays I think its definitely worthwhile to work for a group for at least a year to see how it's properly done. It's not the 80s/90s where docs could just write a paragraph with the date and signature and have no problems during their audits.

Also, lets not forget that salaries over the past 10-20 years did not increase at the same rate as tuition costs for both undergrad/grad/pod school. For new grads taking on a business loan without any real private practice experience would be more risk than just signing with a group. Now consider an increasing saturation of pods in the country every few years. There are definitely more pods being pumped into the market than are retiring/leaving the profession. Sure you can argue that the population is also much larger, but does anyone see it as relative? I remember when I was a college student reading up on podiatry, the reports all said that their would be a podiatrist shortage in the next 10 years and the job outlook is very good. Not sure how true that remains these days.

Im sure there are pods that are successful starting out on their own but all of you guys considering this should make sure you at minimum do the following

-understand the risks involved - what is your income expectation for the first year? second year? What if the practice doesn't take off after 3 years?
-understand your financial situation
-understand the city/town, patient population in which you are going to open in.
-understand podiatry/foot+ankle ortho in that community (# of pods in the area, what do they do - maybe one is retiring or nonsurgical that you could befriend)
-research the hospitals that you would want to be on staff on - (how many pods are there, are pods allowed to do ankle cases? take call? work at the wound care center at the hospital)
-obtain knowledge of documentation requirements for RFC, DME, DM shoes, etc

^ just to name a few.
 

air bud

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1. Work for a pod for a year, live like a resident.
2. Insist on an occurrence malpractice policy and pay difference of claims made that they pay for.
3. Leave after a year and set up on gig.


Contrast this all with a MSG job that I know exists and is interviewing people right now ( sorry apps closed).

Work for a large MSG, take over for an existing retiring pod. 290k base, Benny's, bonus at like 5800 threshold expected first year income of 350k or so. PS coming fresh out of fellowship is not getting you this job I promise. The crazy thing is this job was actually publicly posted.

Also screw working as an associate.
 
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Utvolsdpm

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Had a shower thought this morning - does anyone else think that the job posts looking for an “ethical individual” is code word for sucker? I’ve seen a few of these where someone gets hired and then are told to do unethical things...

I would never ever work for a pod that you don’t know very well personally
 
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dtrack22

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Had a shower thought this morning - does anyone else think that the job posts looking for an “ethical individual” is code word for sucker? I’ve seen a few of these where someone gets hired and then are told to do unethical things...

I would never ever work for a pod that you don’t know very well personally

yeah I mean you could end up not only joining these guys as an associate, but buying in for $600k after a year there. Only to find out....

Washington Podiatrists under state investigation for illegal kickback scheme
 
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heybrother

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Yikes. I've told this story before, but day #1 of PP I was taken to a meeting about "hardware" at which I was pitched using a company's hardware and then if I started an "insurance company" they would buy "esoteric" policies from me with the hardware money and not call the policies in therefore allowing me to keep the money. I was going to need to put down a few tens of thousands of dollars to start with and pay for my own yearly audits and what not.

"Would you like to come back to a second meeting and sign a non-disclosure agreement?"
"Thanks for the steak. No thanks. I don't have any money...... (whispers) and I don't want to go to jail"
 
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CutsWithFury

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1. Work for a pod for a year, live like a resident.
2. Insist on an occurrence malpractice policy and pay difference of claims made that they pay for.
3. Leave after a year and set up on gig.


Contrast this all with a MSG job that I know exists and is interviewing people right now ( sorry apps closed).

Work for a large MSG, take over for an existing retiring pod. 290k base, Benny's, bonus at like 5800 threshold expected first year income of 350k or so. PS coming fresh out of fellowship is not getting you this job I promise. The crazy thing is this job was actually publicly posted.

Also screw working as an associate.

Good advice. I will jump on poster's comment on the MSG job because I know which gig he is talking about.

The MSG job sounds nice right? What you don't know is that the previous DPM did not do any rearfoot or ankle surgery. The bylaws of the main hospital in town excludes DPMs from doing ankle surgery despite the state scope saying DPMs can do any ankle surgery they like (even TARs). There is a foot and ankle ortho who controls everything. It would probably require a lawyer and the state podiatry medical association to make some serious sweeping changes to practice the way "you were trained".

Do you still want this job? The problem with podiatry and jobs is that the experiences are not universal. There are some hospital jobs out there where DPMs are doing everything foot and ankle and practice with complete autonomy and there are other gigs like the above one where you have to compromise your training and interests just to get paid like a doctor. There are also some feel good stories out there where DPMs were not given everything right off the bat but then had to work for it and change ortho's mind and win them over. There are also DPM hospital gigs where DPMs are solely wound care and diabetic limb salvage slaves. Again, just reiterating, that all hospital based experiences are not universal.

These are things you need to consider and understand. This is the reality of our profession.
 
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Pronation

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Good advice. I will jump on poster's comment on the MSG job because I know which gig he is talking about.

The MSG job sounds nice right? What you don't know is that the previous DPM did not do any rearfoot or ankle surgery. The bylaws of the main hospital in town excludes DPMs from doing ankle surgery despite the state scope saying DPMs can do any ankle surgery they like (even TARs). There is a foot and ankle ortho who controls everything. It would probably require a lawyer and the state podiatry medical association to make some serious sweeping changes to practice the way "you were trained".

Do you still want this job? The problem with podiatry and jobs is that the experiences are not universal. There are some hospital jobs out there where DPMs are doing everything foot and ankle and practice with complete autonomy and there are other gigs like the above one where you have to compromise your training and interests just to get paid like a doctor. There are also some feel good stories out there where DPMs were not given everything right off the bat but then had to work for it and change ortho's mind and win them over. There are also DPM hospital gigs where DPMs are solely wound care and diabetic limb salvage slaves. Again, just reiterating, that all hospital based experiences are not universal.

These are things you need to consider and understand. This is the reality of our profession.

So what you're saying is would I want to be doing TARs (of which I am trained in doing as I did them often in residency) or would I rather be cutting into pus and whittling on foot ulcers? If it's doing TARs at a scummy private practice or the latter at a hospital/MSG then I'll take the job that pays more (way more) and with much better benefits. I wouldn't even think twice about not doing half of the crap I got extensive training in for a good/proper salary. That is indeed the reality of our profession. Money talks.

If you asked me this question when I was a student or 1st year resident then my response would have been much different...
 
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CutsWithFury

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So what you're saying is would I want to be doing TARs (of which I am trained in doing as I did them often in residency) or would I rather be cutting into pus and whittling on foot ulcers? If it's doing TARs at a scummy private practice or the latter at a hospital/MSG then I'll take the job that pays more (way more) and with much better benefits. I wouldn't even think twice about not doing half of the crap I got extensive training in for a good/proper salary. That is indeed the reality of our profession. Money talks.

If you asked me this question when I was a student or 1st year resident then my response would have been much different...

I think many would follow your lead and others would not based on their own interests/ desire. This is what I would call a paradox IMHO.
 
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dtrack22

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despite the state scope saying DPMs can do any ankle surgery they like (even TARs).

IF you get the ankle/rearfoot endorsement on your state license...

not sure if podiatrists had to cut a deal with the medical board (ie ortho) or if they created that hurdle on their own. I would hope it’s the former, but assume it’s the latter
 

Scrantonicity

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I believe that some of the people that post on here underestimate the risk that goes into "just starting out on your own after residency before joining a pod group." Yes getting underpaid and working for a pod group does suck, however, many residencies do not provide equal training in practice management and billing/coding. A new grad may face a ton of challenges opening up on their own have to gain a good understanding of medicaid/medicare/commercial insurance plans/coverage, DME, and DM shoes just to name a few. There so much documentation involved that nowadays I think its definitely worthwhile to work for a group for at least a year to see how it's properly done. It's not the 80s/90s where docs could just write a paragraph with the date and signature and have no problems during their audits.

Also, lets not forget that salaries over the past 10-20 years did not increase at the same rate as tuition costs for both undergrad/grad/pod school. For new grads taking on a business loan without any real private practice experience would be more risk than just signing with a group. Now consider an increasing saturation of pods in the country every few years. There are definitely more pods being pumped into the market than are retiring/leaving the profession. Sure you can argue that the population is also much larger, but does anyone see it as relative? I remember when I was a college student reading up on podiatry, the reports all said that their would be a podiatrist shortage in the next 10 years and the job outlook is very good. Not sure how true that remains these days.

Im sure there are pods that are successful starting out on their own but all of you guys considering this should make sure you at minimum do the following

-understand the risks involved - what is your income expectation for the first year? second year? What if the practice doesn't take off after 3 years?
-understand your financial situation
-understand the city/town, patient population in which you are going to open in.
-understand podiatry/foot+ankle ortho in that community (# of pods in the area, what do they do - maybe one is retiring or nonsurgical that you could befriend)
-research the hospitals that you would want to be on staff on - (how many pods are there, are pods allowed to do ankle cases? take call? work at the wound care center at the hospital)
-obtain knowledge of documentation requirements for RFC, DME, DM shoes, etc

^ just to name a few.


These are all very good points--I guess it's easy to say I should have opened my own practice in retrospect, now that I DO know everything that's involved. I probably would have felt quite overwhelmed had I started out like that.
 

Scrantonicity

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I know there's a lot of factors that goes into play but if you had to give an estimate, how much would a start up like that be? Equipment, office, supply etc like potential totally cost to get the doors open.

Honestly I've not crunched the numbers, since I never did take the idea seriously enough to look into it that far. If I were to take an educated guess though (based on talks with other pods), I would say it's safe to say you'd be looking at a $200K loan so that you could buy all the supplies, pay your rent, and pay your employees--and maybe have SOME wiggle room until you get going...I'm sure some could get by with $100K or less, but you'd really have to be pinching it.

Hard to want to take on another 200K when you're already 300K in the hole from school--so there's the conundrum.
 
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PTPuser

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Honestly I've not crunched the numbers, since I never did take the idea seriously enough to look into it that far. If I were to take an educated guess though (based on talks with other pods), I would say it's safe to say you'd be looking at a $200K loan so that you could buy all the supplies, pay your rent, and pay your employees--and maybe have SOME wiggle room until you get going...I'm sure some could get buy with $100K or less, but you'd really have to be pinching it.

Hard to want to take on another 200K when you're already 300K in the hole from school--so there's the conundrum.

Does it make sense for brand new grads who want to open their own shop supplement their income and while building their patient roster to work side jobs like i.e. nursing home visits, and mobile health etc? I guess my example would be like opening your office 4 days a week in the beginning to build patients and use the other 2 days of the week to do side gigs with atleast one off day.
 
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Does it make sense for brand new grads who want to open their own shop supplement their income and while building their patient roster to work side jobs like i.e. nursing home visits, and mobile health etc? I guess my example would be like opening your office 4 days a week in the beginning to build patients and use the other 2 days of the week to do side gigs with atleast one off day.

Questions like this lead me to believe we are at critical saturation. Critical saturation leads to an employers market = lower salaries. Critical saturation leads to ubiquitous questionable business practices such as cash-based modalities with no clinical evidence. Got to make money somewhere. Critical saturation leads to painful side hustles such as nursing homes and mobile gigs. I still have not met anyone who told me "I got into podiatry so I could work nursing homes." There will be two signals that show us we have reached a point of no return. The first will be when there is significant competition for these nursing home and mobile positions. The second will be when higher and higher percentages of residency graduates cannot find a job. Coronavirus probably sped that up.

In response to PT, I haven't opened up on my own, but you do what you have to do.
 

dtrack22

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Does it make sense for brand new grads who want to open their own shop supplement their income and while building their patient roster to work side jobs like i.e. nursing home visits, and mobile health etc?

for some loans doing the above is basically a requirement. the bank requires you to have a source of income in order to approve the loan you need in order to have income. So to satisfy this, you work for a mobile podiatry company and show the bank this income so they’ll give you money to start your practice. And then sure, do it 1-2 days a week even after you open your doors since you will have weeks where you only have 10 patient encounters. That nursing home money will help.
 
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air bud

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Questions like this lead me to believe we are at critical saturation. Critical saturation leads to an employers market = lower salaries. Critical saturation leads to ubiquitous questionable business practices such as cash-based modalities with no clinical evidence. Got to make money somewhere. Critical saturation leads to painful side hustles such as nursing homes and mobile gigs. I still have not met anyone who told me "I got into podiatry so I could work nursing homes." There will be two signals that show us we have reached a point of no return. The first will be when there is significant competition for these nursing home and mobile positions. The second will be when higher and higher percentages of residency graduates cannot find a job. Coronavirus probably sped that up.

In response to PT, I haven't opened up on my own, but you do what you have to do.
critical saturation....or no respect?

wait, visit the prepod forums, they totally know what they are talking about.
 

DYK343

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critical saturation....or no respect?

wait, visit the prepod forums, they totally know what they are talking about.

No respect from our own. Some exceptions but for the most part It's DPMs who do this to DPMs.

I was going to get on at another hospital to increase my OR availability as I am running out of OR time due to high case load. The only and long term DPM there changed all the laws which would prevent me from doing what I am trained to do there. This was done immediately after I applied. This DPM is a 1yr residency trained DPM with poor surgical skills (I've salvaged plenty of his cases...). That provider basically made it pointless for me to go there due to new laws that he had set up to protect himself.

I honestly dont blame him. If I roll in and start doing lots of cases and start getting more referrals its just smart business on his part. But its also annoying for someone who is looking to just increase OR block time.

I think were very well liked in the medical community. DPMs are our biggest enemy.
 
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SM761987

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Questions like this lead me to believe we are at critical saturation. Critical saturation leads to an employers market = lower salaries. Critical saturation leads to ubiquitous questionable business practices such as cash-based modalities with no clinical evidence. Got to make money somewhere. Critical saturation leads to painful side hustles such as nursing homes and mobile gigs. I still have not met anyone who told me "I got into podiatry so I could work nursing homes." There will be two signals that show us we have reached a point of no return. The first will be when there is significant competition for these nursing home and mobile positions. The second will be when higher and higher percentages of residency graduates cannot find a job. Coronavirus probably sped that up.

In response to PT, I haven't opened up on my own, but you do what you have to do.

AGREE WITH THIS. I posted in the past about looking at the real roots of this problem - The Podiatry Schools. To save a part of the profession and handle saturation, I firmly believe that practicing pods need to push the relevant national/state organizations to get all the podiatry schools to reduce class sizes. They will fight back because they want their tuition money. We need to stop looking at the quick immediate benefits and look at the long term. Those pods ages 60+ and maybe even 50+ with the most say holding higher positions may not give a crap because it may not be relevant during their practicing lifetime but those under these ages need to step up (including myself)

We won't have a job offers thread if there are no jobs to begin with.
 

CutsWithFury

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No respect from our own. Some exceptions but for the most part It's DPMs who do this to DPMs.

I was going to get on at another hospital to increase my OR availability as I am running out of OR time due to high case load. The only and long term DPM there changed all the laws which would prevent me from doing what I am trained to do there. This was done immediately after I applied. This DPM is a 1yr residency trained DPM with poor surgical skills (I've salvaged plenty of his cases...). That provider basically made it pointless for me to go there due to new laws that he had set up to protect himself.

I honestly dont blame him. If I roll in and start doing lots of cases and start getting more referrals its just smart business on his part. But its also annoying for someone who is looking to just increase OR block time.

I think were very well liked in the medical community. DPMs are our biggest enemy.

This is very common practice in the area I practice at. Glad you got a taste of my world.
 
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El-Rami

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With people bringing up saturation as an issue, is it likely that someone entering podiatry school this year or the next will have trouble finding employment upon completion of his/her residency? Or is this a longer term issue?
 

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With people bringing up saturation as an issue, is it likely that someone entering podiatry school this year or the next will have trouble finding employment upon completion of his/her residency? Or is this a longer term issue?

Podiatry isn’t saturated in the sense that the need for our services/practice model has been satisfied across the country. Outside of a few major metro areas, there are cities in every state where you could make a very good living as a podiatrist.
Podiatry jobs that pay “well,” or even just treat you fairly, is the “saturated market” here.
 
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El-Rami

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Podiatry isn’t saturated in the sense that the need for our services/practice model has been satisfied across the country. Outside of a few major metro areas, there are cities in every state where you could make a very good living as a podiatrist.
Podiatry jobs that pay “well,” or even just treat you fairly, is the “saturated market” here.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.
 
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MusicManMike

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I am in the opinion that if you want a job that’s worth the time and sacrifice you’ve made (meaning MGMA-median salary in the very least + benefits), you need to contact places on your own. Avoid job postings.

You never know when a MSG, hospital or Ortho group is considering adding podiatry to their services. Call these places and ask... what you got to lose?
 
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CutsWithFury

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I am in the opinion that if you want a job that’s worth the time and sacrifice you’ve made (meaning MGMA-median salary in the very least + benefits), you need to contact places on your own. Avoid job postings.

You never know when a MSG, hospital or Ortho group is considering adding podiatry to their services. Call these places and ask... what you got to lose?
That is how I got my job.
 
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Laciniate

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I am in the opinion that if you want a job that’s worth the time and sacrifice you’ve made (meaning MGMA-median salary in the very least + benefits), you need to contact places on your own. Avoid job postings.

You never know when a MSG, hospital or Ortho group is considering adding podiatry to their services. Call these places and ask... what you got to lose?

Curious about the most effective way to go about this... who specifically you are trying to call up? Office manager vs. HR vs. Department secretaries?

And are you suggesting cold calling vs. emailing vs. also I guess mailing your CV/Cover letter/etc and seeing what response you get?
 

CutsWithFury

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Curious about the most effective way to go about this... who specifically you are trying to call up? Office manager vs. HR vs. Department secretaries?

And are you suggesting cold calling vs. emailing vs. also I guess mailing your CV/Cover letter/etc and seeing what response you get?

do all of the above. email, call. show genuine interest. have your story straight for when they ask..."why you? why here?"
 
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heybrother

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And remember, if you apply for a job in the south you need to indicate you are a Christian.


(JK. Applied for a private practice job. Obvious had an about me. Get a call back saying my resume didn't really say anything about myself like whether I was a Christian. Then he offered me 17% collections and I told him I'd definitely be in touch. Also he hired someone within a year which I think is why dtrack is always quoting PT Barnum. Too fun not to share.)
 
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CutsWithFury

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Just be aware that you will likely not hear back from multiple places. Unfortunately, professionalism isn’t always common especially in response to simple inquiries.

Agree these places don't care...really the don't. If they think you can make them money they will get in touch with you.
 
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G0dFather

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You never know when a MSG, hospital or Ortho group is considering adding podiatry to their services. Call these places and ask... what you got to lose?


Its sad that these are the prospects for something like this .... Its sad that one needs to do this ... to have to sell your degree like this not only brings down its value but shows how little national associations are doing to inform others about the DPM but they are ready to slam you for dues!
 
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CutsWithFury

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Its sad that these are the prospects for something like this .... Its sad that one needs to do this ... to have to sell your degree like this not only brings down its value but shows how little national associations are doing to inform others about the DPM but they are ready to slam you for dues!

This is a fact. National organizations have slacked. It would be helpful if they started a campaign directed at hospitals and their CEOs showing how having an on staff podiatrist would be productive. But they won’t because that would screw 99.99% of the profession that is private
 
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G0dFather

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This is a fact. National organizations have slacked. It would be helpful if they started a campaign directed at hospitals and their CEOs showing how having an on staff podiatrist would be productive. But they won’t because that would screw 99.99% of the profession that is private


RIIIGHTT!!! ... imagine that !! ... and it is waaaaaaaaaaay cheaper and more affordable than educating the public ( we know how great that effort has been, the " todays podiatrist" BS that has been circulated back to just other podiatrists LOL) ... i mean come on ! you cant seriously budget for this !!?? a ONCE yearly campaign to educate top hospital admins about the business of this specialty and its profit margins for their respective systems... that alone will do wonders for the profession... what a shame !
 
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Podiatry isn’t saturated in the sense that the need for our services/practice model has been satisfied across the country. Outside of a few major metro areas, there are cities in every state where you could make a very good living as a podiatrist.
Podiatry jobs that pay “well,” or even just treat you fairly, is the “saturated market” here.

Sure, for now. There are 35k orthopedic surgeons in the US. Graduating 600 pods a year for 30 year careers gives a running average of 18,000 practicing pods at any given time. Add in the 2000 or so foot and ankle ortho pods and that’s 20,000 dedicated foot/ankle surgeons. Obviously many pods do very little or no surgery, but their aspirations to do so have never been higher and graduates coming out now have a surgically focused training and surgically focused expectations. New graduates are replacing retiring pods who for the most part existed in a different time with different training. Many meet a different reality. Nonetheless, 20,000 foot and ankle surgeons (plus General ortho, sports ortho, ortho trauma, and the ortho hand guy who is on call this week all do some foot and ankle in their practice too) is a lot. I recant my statement, our profession is not at critical saturation, but the surgical aspect of our profession is probably close.
 
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