Job prospects after DO psych residency?

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toothless rufus

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Was wondering if there is a significant shriveling of employment opportunities (in the MD world) following a DO psych residency? Any problems geographically?(ie west coast, etc) Any problems by practice type?

Anyone know why DO salaries and benefits usually SUCK btw? They get the same money per resident right? Just greedy?

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Was wondering if there is a significant shriveling of employment opportunities (in the MD world) following a DO psych residency? Any problems geographically?(ie west coast, etc) Any problems by practice type?

Anyone know why DO salaries and benefits usually SUCK btw? They get the same money per resident right? Just greedy?

Severe disadvantage if you do a DO residency unless you want to teach at a DO school. Do an allo residency to have all the doors opened. DO residencies are usually a joke and will severely limit your chances
 
Severe disadvantage if you do a DO residency unless you want to teach at a DO school. Do an allo residency to have all the doors opened. DO residencies are usually a joke and will severely limit your chances

Sadly, I share this opinion, and also feel this to be the case regarding career-killing, but I want to be fair, and find out more.

Anyone out there with first-hand experience?
 
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The reason I ask is because I have an off-cycle interview offer to a place I really don't want to go to for reasons that are legion but am worried about going unmatched next year too, as well as the extreme financial mess looming over the next year. All told:not cool.
 
I think the answer to this question would vary widely based on your career goals. When one person asks if something will be a detrement to their career, a second person will superimpose said situation on their own career and answer accordingly. I'd give just a little more info on what a general range of your career goals are because they may or may not be compatible. I know you asked about geographics, though.
 
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I think the answer to this question would vary widely based on your career goals. When one person asks if something will be a detrement to their career, a second person will superimpose said situation on their own career and answer accordingly. I'd give just a little more info on what a general range of your career goals are because they may or may not be compatible. I know you asked about geographics, though.

Well, I am essentially looking for the possibility to work wherever I want in whatever I want. No academics though. First job in hospital with transition to eventual private practice or a part-time combination of both.

What a mess.
 
I don't see someone graduating from a DO residency being a problem whatsoever if the person wants to do clinical practice and they have all the other requirements done such as a state license, insurance, etc.

I do see the DO possibly posing some problems if someone wants to do some academic or research work.
 
I don't see someone graduating from a DO residency being a problem whatsoever if the person wants to do clinical practice and they have all the other requirements done such as a state license, insurance, etc.

I do see the DO possibly posing some problems if someone wants to do some academic or research work.

This reduces the black bile somewhat.

As of present, I have no academic or research aspirations.
 
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At least where I'm at, and I've heard this happens in most places, the institution is just happy to have a possible psychiatrist to work at their place.

I've only seen people turned off to hiring a psychiatrist if they know the psychiatrist's history and it's a poor one at that. Unfortunately, and this is true of most doctors whatever the field, even a bad doctor will have little problems finding work.
 
Whopper, was wondering what you think about possible difficulties getting clinical work at an academic institution. As in doing nothing academically or research oriented. Just wanting clinical work only.
 
Academic institutions are picky. Period. Usually any problems you have had in your past will be seen as reason not to hire you unless they need you in which case they will fall over themselves to provide reasons to why each misstep was excusable.

Otherwise you shouldn't have a problem. That being said, you should try and train at a program that offers a well rounded program. I will offer the disclaimer that as far as I know, I have met exactly 0 people from DO psych residencies.
 
Psychiatrists are among the most recruited physicians. Multiple sources forecast an increasing demand well into the future and there is much concern among these same sources that the supply will not be adequate, especially in child psych. I don't see any reason why doing a DO residency in psych would put you at any disadvantage in the job market. I would wager you will receive a plethora of job offers just like those in the MD residency programs. Academic jobs will be a tougher nut to crack, as pointed out before, but as long as you want to go into clinical practice, or even hang your own shingle, then there should be plenty of nuts to make you one fat squirrel!

I've followed your story for a while on here, and have rooted for you from the sidelines. I'm truly sorry plan A didn't work out, it doesn't seem fair, but thank goodness for plans B, C, D, E, and beyond. Sounds like you have been hard at work on those. Whatever you decide I sincerely wish you nothing but the best. You sound like a good person and that's not something I tend to think about most doctors...sometimes including myself.
 
Academic institutions are picky. Period. Usually any problems you have had in your past will be seen as reason not to hire you unless they need you in which case they will fall over themselves to provide reasons to why each misstep was excusable.

Otherwise you shouldn't have a problem. That being said, you should try and train at a program that offers a well rounded program. I will offer the disclaimer that as far as I know, I have met exactly 0 people from DO psych residencies.

Haha! Convenient!

The academic thing is more just to know what options there are. I know I'll need to work in some type of a hospital first.


Psychiatrists are among the most recruited physicians. Multiple sources forecast an increasing demand well into the future and there is much concern among these same sources that the supply will not be adequate, especially in child psych. I don't see any reason why doing a DO residency in psych would put you at any disadvantage in the job market. I would wager you will receive a plethora of job offers just like those in the MD residency programs. Academic jobs will be a tougher nut to crack, as pointed out before, but as long as you want to go into clinical practice, or even hang your own shingle, then there should be plenty of nuts to make you one fat squirrel!

I've followed your story for a while on here, and have rooted for you from the sidelines. I'm truly sorry plan A didn't work out, it doesn't seem fair, but thank goodness for plans B, C, D, E, and beyond. Sounds like you have been hard at work on those. Whatever you decide I sincerely wish you nothing but the best. You sound like a good person and that's not something I tend to think about most doctors...sometimes including myself.

Aw shucks. Thank you! I think I'm blushing.:oops:

I am, as the Chinese saying goes, prepared to "eat bitter." (But only if its not career-suicide)
 
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I'm an OMS2 and have only shadowed, but having cumulatively spent weeks at both low-ranking MD and DO sites (always aiming high! :D), I really don't see a difference between the two, save for (1) DO residencies pay poorly and (2) the MD sites have a lot of non-native English speakers so it was frustrating trying to talk to some of them. Language aside, the FMGs didn't have a lot of cultural competency either. Obviously they're still adapting to life in the US, it's not their fault, but imagine having to explain things like, what rap music is, who Mulder and Sculley are, etc. It would slow things down, and it really impeded establishing that theraptuic patient/doctor connection. Sorry if any of that sounds hokey or racist.

In terms of the overall residency experience, rural is rural, so I didn't really see the difference Bumbletown DO Community Site and Bumbletown MD Community Site.

Furthermore, I find that in a big city, a few well known universities get all the interesting pathology. The other places (the lowest tier MD sites) take what's left over. I'd guess that's the same for all specialties. Some cities are pretty damn crowded in terms of medical training. What do you all think?

I emailed hospitals in the vicinity of where I might live in the future (PA, CO and NY) and they said pretty repeated Whopper's observation. They want someone who's bc/be. As far as they are concerned, if you did an ACGME/AOA residency in these United States, you have met the minimum requirements.

I've also never heard of a state board not issuing a license because they didn't think your residency was good enough, if that's what you were suggesting. I would imagine they would trust the people in charge of accrediting residencies to do that.

In summary, my opinion is that there is some overlap between ACGME and AOA sites, although the DO sites would share the bottom of the pile. Still, if you research a place and like it, regardless if it's DO or MD, then go for it. If you don't care about academics, then why care about labels?

Good luck and let us know how what you decide!
 
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What up toothless.

What about doing DO psych then MD fellowship? Is this a possible backdoor through the nonsense?
 
ILoveDrStill: That's reassuring. I do care about the training, an approximate 35k salary difference over the 4 yrs and vacation/holiday/sicktime/etc time. A rough total comparison of the sum of these is 44 versus 20 days.

But as I am much to my chagrin learning beggars cannot be choosers (and I always thought they kind of could be, if they just thought nice thoughts and did good deeds ;-)
 
What up toothless.

What about doing DO psych then MD fellowship? Is this a possible backdoor through the nonsense?

Hey.

As I understand it, to be eligible for MD fellowship, you must go through MD residency. Which is something else I was interested in that I will have to give up. (I'm not aware of any DO psych fellowships)
 
ILoveDrStill: That's reassuring. I do care about the training, an approximate 35k salary difference over the 4 yrs

I'm guessing that you started this thread because you have the chance to match into an AOA site right now. If you look at the opportunity cost of putting off being an attending for one year, that 35k is nothing. So if you like the place, go for it!

and vacation/holiday/sicktime/etc time. A rough total comparison of the sum of these is 44 versus 20 days.

Fair enough. An extra 22 days for 4 years, that is 5 days a year, sucks. But think big picture; if you really hate or love the place, 5 days isn't going to be that big of a difference.

Also there are DO psych fellowships. Check out MSU and UNMDNDJDJD whatever that acronym is!

Like Medfoolschool said, we're all pulling for you!
 
Hey.

As I understand it, to be eligible for MD fellowship, you must go through MD residency. Which is something else I was interested in that I will have to give up. (I'm not aware of any DO psych fellowships)

Untrue, though the pool of AOA graduates going into fellowship in the allopathic world would be very, very small -- in addition to probably having a demographic skewed toward general practice rather than further specialization.
 
I'm guessing that you started this thread because you have the chance to match into an AOA site right now. If you look at the opportunity cost of putting off being an attending for one year, that 35k is nothing. So if you like the place, go for it!

Thank you, This is absolutely true.

Let's just say that the idea of going unmatched next year is a real possibility that I don't feel like the risk is worth taking if there is any alternative. Add to that that I am recently married and do not wish to become a terrible burden
.

Fair enough. An extra 22 days for 4 years, that is 5 days a year, sucks. But think big picture; if you really hate or love the place, 5 days isn't going to be that big of a difference.

Again: a great way to look at this

Also there are DO psych fellowships. Check out MSU and UNMDNDJDJD whatever that acronym is!

Like Medfoolschool said, we're all pulling for you!

Thank you. :)



Untrue, though the pool of AOA graduates going into fellowship in the allopathic world would be very, very small -- in addition to probably having a demographic skewed toward general practice rather than further specialization.

Thank you! This is an unexpected surprise. I'm not sure I want a fellowship, but have been feeling the tug for a couple of them. I'm sure its not easy, but its nice to know
.
 
When you go on your interview, ask them for as much info as you can on what their grads end up doing. :)

Did you apply to DO psych residencies originally? If you applied to DO Psych already and didn't match then this bird in the hand might be the best thing to take. If you didn't apply to any DO psych places in the original match, it might be worth considering applying to them next time in the hope that you might end up at one of the better DO psych residencies.
I don't know a lot about the DO programs, but based on what I saw from rotating at Henry Ford's program, the training seemed on par with a lot of the middle tier MD programs (no, not a research powerhouse, but good clinical exposure and some research experiences for those who really want it). I think it would be unfair to say all DO residencies are horrible.
 
This thread has gotten me a bit worried...I'm starting mes school this august at a osteopathic program and have hopes of going into psychiatry..eveyonr has been thing me all doing that DOs and MDs are the same...but this thread clearly points out that I'm already at a big disadvantage...i want to do my residency in a solid program in a nice busy city where my wife and I can enjoy life after the tough years of medical school...so basically because ill.be a DO I.will land a mediocre residency in the middle of nowhere...my motivation for giving medical school.my effort and energy is slowly a painful death..excuse my grammar I'm typing on my phone
 
This thread has gotten me a bit worried...I'm starting mes school this august at a osteopathic program and have hopes of going into psychiatry..eveyonr has been thing me all doing that DOs and MDs are the same...but this thread clearly points out that I'm already at a big disadvantage...i want to do my residency in a solid program in a nice busy city where my wife and I can enjoy life after the tough years of medical school...so basically because ill.be a DO I.will land a mediocre residency in the middle of nowhere...my motivation for giving medical school.my effort and energy is slowly a painful death..excuse my grammar I'm typing on my phone

Its a little bit scary how misinformed you are considering you are already entering a DO program. I guess if it was the only place you got in and really had no interest in a DO program than you may not care but if you actually chose a DO program you should be aware of how residency works for DO's. They can choose to join an allopathic residency (normal residency programs that use the match and have traditionally MD's) and also they are eligible for DO residencies that are run by DO programs and considered sub-par residencies USUALLY. They are not available to MD's so its typically easy to get into a DO residency.

We are talking about a DO residency and not being a DO in general.

I would do some reading to learn about DO school and its differences.
 
I was under the impression that if one completed an AOA residency, then pursued an ACGME fellowship, then it is allowed.... however, one would never be able to sit for the fellowship boards.... hence, you'd never be board eligible despite being "fellowship trained."
 
Its a little bit scary how misinformed you are considering you are already entering a DO program. I guess if it was the only place you got in and really had no interest in a DO program than you may not care but if you actually chose a DO program you should be aware of how residency works for DO's. They can choose to join an allopathic residency (normal residency programs that use the match and have traditionally MD's) and also they are eligible for DO residencies that are run by DO programs and considered sub-par residencies USUALLY. They are not available to MD's so its typically easy to get into a DO residency.

We are talking about a DO residency and not being a DO in general.

I would do some reading to learn about DO school and its differences.

Haha no I'm fully aware of everything you just mentioned, trust me I know what's going on in my life and in my future...i am however fairly misinformed about DO psych residencies being "sub-par"...ill take the complex and usmle both, but I was kinda hoping to learn more about cranial manipulation after graduating.. Look, I'm not stupid...i know what bring a DO is all about, and I know what psych is about, I worked in a clinic for years...but I never met a DO psych...not that they would be be any different but I haven't had the chance to speak with any of them regarding matching..the one DO psych I actually do know went to michigan state, but because michigan is so DO friendly I can't really take that into consideration when relating it to my own experience bring in the south with no DO school even in my state of north carolina.
 
Haha no I'm fully aware of everything you just mentioned, trust me I know what's going on in my life and in my future...i am however fairly misinformed about DO psych residencies being "sub-par"...ill take the complex and usmle both, but I was kinda hoping to learn more about cranial manipulation after graduating.. Look, I'm not stupid...i know what bring a DO is all about, and I know what psych is about, I worked in a clinic for years...but I never met a DO psych...not that they would be be any different but I haven't had the chance to speak with any of them regarding matching..the one DO psych I actually do know went to michigan state, but because michigan is so DO friendly I can't really take that into consideration when relating it to my own experience bring in the south with no DO school even in my state of north carolina.

Getting an MD psych residency as a DO has historically not been a problem. The OP is in a unique situation.
 
Haha no I'm fully aware of everything you just mentioned, trust me I know what's going on in my life and in my future...i am however fairly misinformed about DO psych residencies being "sub-par"...ill take the complex and usmle both, but I was kinda hoping to learn more about cranial manipulation after graduating.. Look, I'm not stupid...i know what bring a DO is all about, and I know what psych is about, I worked in a clinic for years...but I never met a DO psych...not that they would be be any different but I haven't had the chance to speak with any of them regarding matching..the one DO psych I actually do know went to michigan state, but because michigan is so DO friendly I can't really take that into consideration when relating it to my own experience bring in the south with no DO school even in my state of north carolina.

You still are not getting it are you? Either you are covering your tracks or you just do not make sense. Why would this thread have you "worried" as someone who has not even started DO school yet? There is a simple answer--do an allopathic residency and none of this applies to you. Then you are "equal" in the eyes of any job you get (give or take).

You can do a residency in manipulation (I am not even a DO but believe this is true) and after that could pursue allopathic psych residency. Worrying now just makes no sense as you have control of NOT doing a DO residnecy.

I would definetly not-they are in general really really subpar as it just propogates the worst doctors. It draws from a pool of DO's who are generally a lower quality student. Then it takes those who apply and accept DO programs which is part because they were the bottom students and could not get allopathic and some actually wanted it. Then it concentrates those bottom of the barrel folk and that is who is training you. Highly not reccomended IMO.

Totally nothing against DO's who are competitive applicants and go to allo residency. Nothing different than MD quality in my eyes.
 
You still are not getting it are you? Either you are covering your tracks or you just do not make sense. Why would this thread have you "worried" as someone who has not even started DO school yet? There is a simple answer--do an allopathic residency and none of this applies to you. Then you are "equal" in the eyes of any job you get (give or take).

You can do a residency in manipulation (I am not even a DO but believe this is true) and after that could pursue allopathic psych residency. Worrying now just makes no sense as you have control of NOT doing a DO residnecy.

I would definetly not-they are in general really really subpar as it just propogates the worst doctors. It draws from a pool of DO's who are generally a lower quality student. Then it takes those who apply and accept DO programs which is part because they were the bottom students and could not get allopathic and some actually wanted it. Then it concentrates those bottom of the barrel folk and that is who is training you. Highly not reccomended IMO.

Totally nothing against DO's who are competitive applicants and go to allo residency. Nothing different than MD quality in my eyes.

just curious...what do you consider a "worst doctor"...a "lower quality student"...."bottom of the barrel folk".....please elaborate, are you making these classifications based on board scores, word of mouth, or just your own little brain sitting on your high horse?

and when you say "Totally nothing against DO's who are competitive applicants and go to allo residency. Nothing different than MD quality in my eyes.".............so non-competitive DO's who chose an osteo residency are clearly less qualified than MDs in "your eyes"? So you would actually look down on another physician? No matter where they came from or who they are....a nurse, a PA, a technician..from harvard or from an island i would try my BEST to NEVER look at anyone as being "below" myself, or even "above" me. Some of the nation's best doctors didnt even get trained here...in fact foreign trained doctors who were born in foreign countries have the lowest mortality rates so i just don't believe one doctor can be better than another based on where they trained.

im not disgusted with what your saying because you think some DO program make lower quality doctors...im disgusted because i can only imagine how far that judgmental mindset goes in your life. in other words, you got some issues dude. i seriously hope that being a doctor will never make me into that arrogant prick that i see so often around.

i apologize for hijacking this thread, please carry on.
 
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Oh come on, you are not that naive or in denial. Everyone knows the majority of DO students are students who could not get into MD schools. I have lots of friends and everyone of them tried MD. For various reasons such as screwing up freshman year of college or something v. not being able to score a decent mcat score or do well in sciences.

The average gpa is a lot lower and avj board scores are 24.

I do not want to start an MD or DO war but please just be realistic. Lower caliber means someone who is not at the same academic caliber as the average MD acceptee. Lets be real, undergrad is not that difficult with some effort and a decent GPA and an mcat of 27 really is not that hard. So when people cannot score that, especially after multiple attempts, I consider that sub-par.

Not my opinion, statistically they are below the average for academic measures compared to average MD candidate.
 
Oh come on, you are not that naive or in denial. Everyone knows the majority of DO students are students who could not get into MD schools. I have lots of friends and everyone of them tried MD. For various reasons such as screwing up freshman year of college or something v. not being able to score a decent mcat score or do well in sciences.

The average gpa is a lot lower and avj board scores are 24.

I do not want to start an MD or DO war but please just be realistic. Lower caliber means someone who is not at the same academic caliber as the average MD acceptee. Lets be real, undergrad is not that difficult with some effort and a decent GPA and an mcat of 27 really is not that hard. So when people cannot score that, especially after multiple attempts, I consider that sub-par.

Not my opinion, statistically they are below the average for academic measures compared to average MD candidate.

I guess one could make the same argument about psychiatrists.
 
I guess one could make the same argument about psychiatrists.

I totally agree. On average they are the sub-par medical students or people who were below average in some large respect. I think it is changing as lifestyle is becoming a bigger draw and psych is more in demand but historically and currently it attracts a much lower caliber of student. No arguements there. Same goes for family, IM and peds. Psych may be one of the worst group of residents statistically. Clearly this is not always the case as is with DO's-there are some people who preferred DO school for one reason or another and some great applicatns who prefer psych over any other "competitive" field.

You are spot on though!
 
Oh come on, you are not that naive or in denial. Everyone knows the majority of DO students are students who could not get into MD schools. I have lots of friends and everyone of them tried MD. For various reasons such as screwing up freshman year of college or something v. not being able to score a decent mcat score or do well in sciences.

The average gpa is a lot lower and avj board scores are 24.

I do not want to start an MD or DO war but please just be realistic. Lower caliber means someone who is not at the same academic caliber as the average MD acceptee. Lets be real, undergrad is not that difficult with some effort and a decent GPA and an mcat of 27 really is not that hard. So when people cannot score that, especially after multiple attempts, I consider that sub-par.

Not my opinion, statistically they are below the average for academic measures compared to average MD candidate.

your a little man.
 
The average gpa is a lot lower and avj board scores are 24.

FWIW, I think the average was 3.45/26.5 last year (still lower, but not a 24). And a 27 definitely doesn't equal an acceptance, I had a 3.7/29 and am going to a DO school this fall. Competition is going up every year, and it's a crapshoot if you are on the cusp academically. I have a couple friends who got in MD this year with a 3.8/28 and a 3.5/30 so I think we're pretty similar...I certainly don't feel like I'm "lesser" and I doubt they'd think that either. You'll say n=1, and I suppose I can't argue, but I believe there's some overlap amongst MD/DO students in terms of "caliber"...but yes, I also recognize there are some on both sides of the "average." At the end of the day, I'm extremely excited to be starting at a DO school...I don't mean to be combative, so please don't read this that way.

This thread really got sidetracked, sorry to the OP, and good luck!
 
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Totally nothing against DO's who are competitive applicants and go to allo residency. Nothing different than MD quality in my eyes.

very hard to say what 'quality' means, especially in psych. much much more than scores.
 
It's doubtful that anyone here is that acquainted with any AOA psych graduates, since up until a couple years ago there were only a handful of them (which is still true, by the way) and most of those (4 of them) were/are dually accredited programs that take people through the ACGME match, too. Compound this with the fact that any DO-only programs probably take 2-3 people a year, they're currently probably putting out <12 graduates per year. To say that they propogate the worst DOs and that only bad DOs go into these residencies would be pure speculation. Sure, you can assume that better applicants would opt for "bigger and better opportunities", but that's conforming more to your own criteria than to the applicants'. People's reasons for attending DO school is varied. Likewise, their reasons for entering the AOA match is varied -- just like someone may rank a community program higher a big university program. If you approach it from the other end, of course you'd think that the only reason someone would end up at these other programs is because they couldn't make it somewhere else, despite the fact that clearly everyone has different goals.
 
It's doubtful that anyone here is that acquainted with any AOA psych graduates, since up until a couple years ago there were only a handful of them (which is still true, by the way) and most of those (4 of them) were/are dually accredited programs that take people through the ACGME match, too. Compound this with the fact that any DO-only programs probably take 2-3 people a year, they're currently probably putting out <12 graduates per year. To say that they propogate the worst DOs and that only bad DOs go into these residencies would be pure speculation. Sure, you can assume that better applicants would opt for "bigger and better opportunities", but that's conforming more to your own criteria than to the applicants'. People's reasons for attending DO school is varied. Likewise, their reasons for entering the AOA match is varied -- just like someone may rank a community program higher a big university program. If you approach it from the other end, of course you'd think that the only reason someone would end up at these other programs is because they couldn't make it somewhere else, despite the fact that clearly everyone has different goals.

Agreed. I've been on a year of rotations now with 3rd year MD students from various schools, and I certainly haven't felt, or seemed, inferior to them.

As stated above, reasons for applying to the DO match are varied, but geography is a huge factor. If there was a DO psych program with a child fellowship in the Sarasota/Bradenton area, I would seriously consider it, because my family and I really love the area and have enjoyed our time here so far, and could see ourselves settling here. Now, there's not one here, but there is a brand new FM and IM residency, which matched a number of students, each of whom, I'm sure, have their own reasons for coming here. There's a guy in my class who has lived here his whole life, I'm sure he'd like to stay here if he could...for example.
 
Agreed. I've been on a year of rotations now with 3rd year MD students from various schools, and I certainly haven't felt, or seemed, inferior to them.

As stated above, reasons for applying to the DO match are varied, but geography is a huge factor. If there was a DO psych program with a child fellowship in the Sarasota/Bradenton area, I would seriously consider it, because my family and I really love the area and have enjoyed our time here so far, and could see ourselves settling here. Now, there's not one here, but there is a brand new FM and IM residency, which matched a number of students, each of whom, I'm sure, have their own reasons for coming here. There's a guy in my class who has lived here his whole life, I'm sure he'd like to stay here if he could...for example.

Maybe you already know this but I just stumbled on noticing that they're opening a program next year in Largo. Not sure if that's too far from Bradenton, since all I know is it's in the Tampa area.
 
Maybe you already know this but I just stumbled on noticing that they're opening a program next year in Largo. Not sure if that's too far from Bradenton, since all I know is it's in the Tampa area.

Interesting. I have some classmates that have been rotating up in Largo and really liked their experience there.

Unfortunately, I'm not applying to the DO match. We've moved back to Virginia (our home state) and are hoping to wind up there or somewhere close. Although, if I didn't match for some reason (god forbid, I'm a decent applicant with no red flags), I would consider the DO match next year.

Also, I want to do C&A, and want to wind up at a program with a C&A fellowship, if possible...but thanks for the info, I'll pass it along!
 
Whopper, was wondering what you think about possible difficulties getting clinical work at an academic institution. As in doing nothing academically or research oriented. Just wanting clinical work only.
Incidentally, I recently overheard some attendings talking about how absolutely crummy the salaries are for attendings at top tier academic places.
Even if it turns out that a place like Harvard wouldn't give you the chance to live like a resident in exchange for the privilege of being able to tell people you're Harvard faculty, I think you'll manage as a private practice doc or something. One of the nice things about psych is the freedom it gives us to practice how we want.
 
Incidentally, I recently overheard some attendings talking about how absolutely crummy the salaries are for attendings at top tier academic places.
Even if it turns out that a place like Harvard wouldn't give you the chance to live like a resident in exchange for the privilege of being able to tell people you're Harvard faculty, I think you'll manage as a private practice doc or something. One of the nice things about psych is the freedom it gives us to practice how we want.

True. I have heard this as well. I am only concerned about where I may want to end up geographically. I have no huge concern about "name" places, except in that regard. Remains a moot point anyway; I did not get the spot. Hope my posting here didn't play a role. Didn't even occur to me.

Back to business as usual.
 
FWIW, I think the average was 3.45/26.5 last year (still lower, but not a 24). And a 27 definitely doesn't equal an acceptance, I had a 3.7/29 and am going to a DO school this fall. Competition is going up every year, and it's a crapshoot if you are on the cusp academically. I have a couple friends who got in MD this year with a 3.8/28 and a 3.5/30 so I think we're pretty similar...I certainly don't feel like I'm "lesser" and I doubt they'd think that either. You'll say n=1, and I suppose I can't argue, but I believe there's some overlap amongst MD/DO students in terms of "caliber"...but yes, I also recognize there are some on both sides of the "average." At the end of the day, I'm extremely excited to be starting at a DO school...I don't mean to be combative, so please don't read this that way.

This thread really got sidetracked, sorry to the OP, and good luck!

I agree. Medical school acceptance is not "easy" for anyone, as there are far more qualified applicants with good scores, or good enough scores, than there are positions available in medical school. Amongst similar applicants with similar scores, some will be interviewed and some won't, and it is difficult for an applicant to predict where they are going to end up in the shuffle. Applying to medical school can thus seem like a random process, and unless you can afford to pay the money for 30 secondary applications to up your chances, you could end up applying to 10-20 schools and not being accepted at any of them. Getting into medical school is really really hard -- and I think that for many people choosing a DO school is much preferable than reapplying to MD schools. I was very lucky that I only applied to medical school once but I would never, ever want to do that year over again.
 
This thread is insane and I had to register to make my first post. I am a DO, and currently at an osteopathic psychiatry residency program. On this years PRITE I was in the 94th percentile amongst all psychiatry residents, osteopathic and allopathic. I know several DO attendings at MD academic institutions, but to be fair, the ones I know went to MD residencies.

As far as finding a job in general, I can assure you there is zero difficulty because I am getting unsolicited job offers. There are many reasons people go to osteopathic medical school, and many reasons why they stay there for residency. Please keep an open mind.
 
Remains a moot point anyway; I did not get the spot. Hope my posting here didn't play a role. Didn't even occur to me.
Sorry to hear that things didn't work out. I hope it turns out to be a blessing in disguise and you end up with something better next year. That's what happened to me. I wound up in a program that I really liked but that I had totally overlooked my first year of applying.
I'm not an expert on the issue of geographical demand for psychiatrists, but my perception is that psych is in demand in most areas. There are only a few places like Boston that I've heard are pretty much saturated where you might have problems.
 
This thread is insane and I had to register to make my first post. I am a DO, and currently at an osteopathic psychiatry residency program. On this years PRITE I was in the 94th percentile amongst all psychiatry residents, osteopathic and allopathic. I know several DO attendings at MD academic institutions, but to be fair, the ones I know went to MD residencies.

As far as finding a job in general, I can assure you there is zero difficulty because I am getting unsolicited job offers. There are many reasons people go to osteopathic medical school, and many reasons why they stay there for residency. Please keep an open mind.

Open mind indeed. There is quite a bit of misinformation on this thread.
It's a shame some of these posts were made by an individual who is not even training in an AOA program.
 
Open mind indeed. There is quite a bit of misinformation on this thread.
It's a shame some of these posts were made by an individual who is not even training in an AOA program.

I think this happens because there is such a small amount of information out there about the DO psych programs. Many of the programs don't even have websites explaining the rotations and opportunities, so people tend to either assume the worst or base their impressions on word of mouth/rumors. Personally I would welcome it if those of you who have firsthand knowledge of the DO programs would stay here and educate everyone else about what they're like.
As I mentioned, I did rotate at one place as a med student, but most of the DO programs are a mystery to me.
 
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