DreamerCNM

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To the moms of SDN,

I was just talking with a woman from my neighborhood about life and work. She started badmouthing a woman we both know for studying medicine. She was saying that women like her are basically guilty of neglect, that if you know you won't be able to spend a lot of time with your kids you may as well not have them... She went on and on about kids being brought up by their nanny and how she feels so "bad" for them.

In my mind, I know that my kids will benefit more from having a happy, satisfied mom who loves her job than they will of having a cranky mom who's with them all the time. My kids will be younger than 8-9 by the time I'm an attending, and I'm sure they won't remember that they only saw me for 2-3 hours a day and on weekends when they were young. Still, her comments hit a soft spot in me and made me doubt my choices for a second.

It is so sad to see that women are each other's worst enemy, when we should be cheering each other on.

How do you all deal with criticism from other women about your career choice? Let's talk!
 

sloop

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Not a woman, but seriously, who gives a **** about this? In all seriousness, this woman is just jealous of the status and security women studying medicine will enjoy in the future. And about the kids—studying medicine does not prevent you from raising kids well unless you let it. Lots of kids grow up with a father who is seldom home because they are working some high-power job in any of a number of industries. Despite any moral outrage people might have about the time someone might spend home with her kids, the fact still remains that the children of independent, successful people are more likely to be independent and successful themselves. It is pretty foolish of this woman to think that other women are necessarily hurting their kids by pursuing high-powered, high-status careers. Just make sure the time you spend with your kids is good and that you make time to teach them the important life lessons and they will likely be fine.

Hell, I didn't spend much time with my mom in adolescence and young adulthood and it had nothing to do with my mom's work. I just was always doing my own thing and our interaction was limited. Still, the interaction I did have was good. I think people worry way too much about having this profound impact on their kid's development. A child's development is probably much more heavily influenced from their immediate environment and their peers than it is by their family, anyway. As a kid, you spend way more time at school and with friends than you do with your mother or father no matter what your parents do for a living.
 

Darth Doc

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People may talk behind my back, but no one tells me to my face I'm neglecting my kids. I make myself feel guiltier than anyone for the amount of time I'm away studying. Even so, I'm way happier than when I was a stay-at-home mom. I tried that and became really depressed. My kids are thriving. By the time I'm an attending, half of our kids will be in college.

Honestly, I avoid negative people whenever possible. My husband, family, and kids are supportive. All of my friends are professional men and women (or medical students who will be working busy lives and having kids).

Of my kids, all but one are girls. I want to be a role model for them that it's okay to be strong and do great and amazing things. Their kids won't suffer any more than they did. It's about the love you give them. We're closer now than we were before I started school.
 

NontradCA

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Tell her to fill her middle of ****ing the day time with some other things I see soccer moms doing:

Pilates
Getting 100 items in grocery store
Driving really bad
Ordering "2 pump" pumpkin spice lattes
#ing on social media how hard it is to be a mom
Organizing PTA events to bitch about life, not focusing on the kids
Trying out that new recipe for monkey bread
Down-talking a blue collar worker
Banging a blue collar worker

Or any other thing that doesn't involve you.
 

fancymylotus

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Tell her to fill her middle of ****ing the day time with some other things I see soccer moms doing:

Pilates
Getting 100 items in grocery store
Driving really bad
Ordering "2 pump" pumpkin spice lattes
#ing on social media how hard it is to be a mom
Organizing PTA events to bitch about life, not focusing on the kids
Trying out that new recipe for monkey bread
Down-talking a blue collar worker
Banging a blue collar worker

Or any other thing that doesn't involve you.
Take Pilates off that list immediately!
 
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DreamerCNM

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Tell her to fill her middle of ****ing the day time with some other things I see soccer moms doing:

Pilates
Getting 100 items in grocery store
Driving really bad
Ordering "2 pump" pumpkin spice lattes
#ing on social media how hard it is to be a mom
Organizing PTA events to bitch about life, not focusing on the kids
Trying out that new recipe for monkey bread
Down-talking a blue collar worker
Banging a blue collar worker

Or any other thing that doesn't involve you.
How true is the line on pumpkin spice lattes!
I realize how privileged I am to be in this position, but still, people's opinions can hurt.
 

Jlaw

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Tell her to F off, this is your family not hers. Her kids wish their mom had half the ambition you do, or they will in a few years.
 

wjs010

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You should be a great mom and doc. You can do both :)
 

Señor S

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How do you all deal with criticism from other women about your career choice?
By ignoring it of course...but you can't ignore it because it's at least partly true. People go into medicine in large part to gratify their own egos, often at the expense of their marriages and families--and by the time they realize what they've lost it's already too late. And I do think that women will feel more deprived than men in this regard, at least in general.
 
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PL198

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It's amusing what people consider to be the daily activities of a "soccer mom"
They don't have any. They spend 90% of the day screwing around wasting time. But yeah homemakers, such a tough profession. It's really difficult sitting around home and watching TV all day and then whining about how hard your life is
 

ACSurgeon

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To the moms of SDN,

I was just talking with a woman from my neighborhood about life and work. She started badmouthing a woman we both know for studying medicine. She was saying that women like her are basically guilty of neglect, that if you know you won't be able to spend a lot of time with your kids you may as well not have them... She went on and on about kids being brought up by their nanny and how she feels so "bad" for them.

In my mind, I know that my kids will benefit more from having a happy, satisfied mom who loves her job than they will of having a cranky mom who's with them all the time. My kids will be younger than 8-9 by the time I'm an attending, and I'm sure they won't remember that they only saw me for 2-3 hours a day and on weekends when they were young. Still, her comments hit a soft spot in me and made me doubt my choices for a second.

It is so sad to see that women are each other's worst enemy, when we should be cheering each other on.

How do you all deal with criticism from other women about your career choice? Let's talk!
You realize her comments are motivated by jealousy and ignorance. Kids are resilient. They'll be just fine. Once they're older they'll appreciate what you've accomplished and respect you for it.
 

futuremdforme

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Everyone here judging this woman is exactly why women like her judge working moms! Both sides are defensive so they attack the other side.

Lots of women do medicine, and most of those women become moms at some point. Most of their kids are just fine, just like most kids of SAHMs are fine. Don't worry about impressing this lady, just do your thing and find other working moms to relate to.
 
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They don't have any. They spend 90% of the day screwing around wasting time. But yeah homemakers, such a tough profession. It's really difficult sitting around home and watching TV all day and then whining about how hard your life is
To be fair being a mom full time especially with babies and toddlers is one of the toughest jobs out there. It does not involve sitting back and watching tv all day. It involves lack of sleep and being overwhelmed because there is barely any time. I think both stay at home moms and working mothers have challenging jobs. No need for either side to talk smack about each other. My mother was a stay at home mom and she was always busy supporting us as kids and when we later went to school she ran the family business. There are positives in both career choices
 
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fancymylotus

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They don't have any. They spend 90% of the day screwing around wasting time. But yeah homemakers, such a tough profession. It's really difficult sitting around home and watching TV all day and then whining about how hard your life is


My mother left her full time (professional) career to raise us, and I can't remember a time where she sat around for hours doing nothing and channel surfing. As far as I'm concerned, she is totally entitled to complain to her friends about how difficult her life is, none of us would have made it very far without her. Hate to admit it as she drives me bananas, but it's the truth
 
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DreamerCNM

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To be fair being a mom full time especially with babies and toddlers is one of the toughest jobs out there. It does not involve sitting back and watching tv all day. It involves lack of sleep and being overwhelmed because there is barely any time. I think both stay at home moms and working mothers have challenging jobs. No need for either side to talk smack about each other. My mother was a stay at home mom and she was always busy supporting us as kids and when we later went to school she ran the family business. There are positives in both career choices

Absolutely. A bit less backstabbing and gossiping from both sides would be great.
 

PL198

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To be fair being a mom full time especially with babies and toddlers is one of the toughest jobs out there. It does not involve sitting back and watching tv all day. It involves lack of sleep and being overwhelmed because there is barely any time. I think both stay at home moms and working mothers have challenging jobs. No need for either side to talk smack about each other. My mother was a stay at home mom and she was always busy supporting us as kids and when we later went to school she ran the family business. There are positives in both career choices
no
 
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@PL198 Sounds like you are trolling so I will ignore.

To OP, your neighbor lady crossed the line. I personally hate it when people tell me how I am doing a bad job raising my son, especially when they say it in a judgmental tone. I am a full time employee and also a full time student, so I don't get to spend every hour of every minute of my day with him. Tough luck kiddo, we need to eat so mother needs to work. But at the end of the day as long as my child knows I love him and care for him, and as long as I take time to teach him good morals and spend as much time as I can with him, that is what counts. Besides, there are a lot of full time mothers who are so bad at motherhood their kids would be better off at daycare or with a nanny all day! And don't get me started on full time mothers who home-school their kids but can barely spell themselves! (I have nothing against homeschooling, except when idiots do it)
 
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DokterMom

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They don't have any. They spend 90% of the day screwing around wasting time. But yeah homemakers, such a tough profession. It's really difficult sitting around home and watching TV all day and then whining about how hard your life is
You are a *******. Shut the hell up until you know what you are talking about.
Watch out; allo is particularly "report" happy and you'll get tossed on probation for stuff like this....
@Dr. Death -- Fancy's right, no matter how accurate and insightful your observation was, it needs to be phrased diplomatically and professionally, such as: "Your ignorance and narrow-mindedness on the subject is appalling." Or perhaps: "I would expect nothing less from a poster with your history of misogynistic views."
 

TheTao

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To the moms of SDN,

I was just talking with a woman from my neighborhood about life and work. She started badmouthing a woman we both know for studying medicine. She was saying that women like her are basically guilty of neglect, that if you know you won't be able to spend a lot of time with your kids you may as well not have them... She went on and on about kids being brought up by their nanny and how she feels so "bad" for them.

How do you all deal with criticism from other women about your career choice? Let's talk!
I purposely waited until my daughter graduated high school before pursing med school admissions seriously. For me, I looked at a husband that traveled almost weekly and a non existent support system (though my mother had retired), and decided that I wouldn't be comfortable not being there for my kid as much as I thought I needed to be. But that doesn't mean my career as a Scientist and often part-time student, made me available for everything either.

The fact is that ANY parent male or female that works outside the home, can't possibly be there for EVERYTHING in a kid's life no matter what their career is. And to have a "life" outside of the home, isn't neglect IMHO. OTOH, having strangers play the role Nanny's play in raising a kid(s) wouldn't have worked for me personally, so it depends on what each woman's comfort level is with having someone else play such a large role in their kid's life.

I also think a considerable amount of thought needs to be given to the needs of each kid(s) before embarking on something like med school because I've seen that not every kid adapts well to having a Mother as busy as a Physician Mom is/can be. And I can think of a few instances especially with girls, where they rebelled against having a busy Mom in some of the most unpleasant of ways. I can also recall a mother that lost custody of her kids to her husband after she went to med school. Can these things happen to women in other careers? Of course but for me, if my kid hadn't turned out as well as she has and I had pursued med school or a PhD program too, I'd always wonder if my decisions played a role in that. I just wasn't willing to risk that (especially raising a minority girl), but I don't judge other women who have their support systems in place and successfully pursue medical school/a career in medicine anyway.
 

TheTao

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Women need to stop judging each other and attributing opinions you don't agree with as based on jealously and ignorance, because doing so is also ignorant.

Not every kid is as "resilient" as people (who are often trying to justify their own choices) make them out to be. And having successfully raised a kid myself and also having had a career around children, I certainly think there are best ages for kids to have a mother with a very busy career like being in med school. The background of the mother also seems to come into play, with "bootstrapping Moms" seemingly better able to handle multiple challenges like raising kids and attending school, IMHO.

IMHO, ages <6 and > 14, seem a best general guess for ideal age for kids based on the 10+ years of experiences I have working directly with/around children. But again, it ultimately depends on the child. And yes, there are exceptions to everything (my kid probably would have been one) but human behavior at certain age ranges has been proven over thousands of years.
 
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DokterMom

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@DreamerCNM -- You already know that your neighbor is a judgmental witch (sp.) But as you also know, she's pressing on a sore spot for women, and using one of society's most effective coercive techniques -- shaming other women -- to defend her own choice and reassure her that the options she didn't take (for whatever reason) were bad.

You'll need to come to terms with your own decision and know that you are doing what is best for your own family -- family meaning spouse, children and you. That last part frequently gets overlooked or minimized, and it absolutely shouldn't. Staying at home to raise kids full-time is not for everyone. (I found the loss of brain cells intolerable.) There are families of every shape and configuration that thrive, and others of that same configuration that wither. There are ambitious working moms with enormously talented, independent and resourceful kids, and others with neurotic drugged-out messes -- sometimes in the same family. There are dedicated, nurturing SAH moms with enormously talented, secure and compassionate kids, and others with hateful, entitled messes -- sometimes in the same family.

My own mother was a highly educated professional who left the workforce to stay at home and raise children. She admitted that her decision was due to societal pressures, abut always said that she didn't regret it. But I never completely believed her, and often suggested she would be happier and more fulfilled if she went back to work. She was a true pioneer - briefly - and I always wonder what she would have achieved had she remained in the workforce.

I chose to work full-time while raising my own kids. They saw their mother happy, challenged, and successful in her career and learned that they should demand the same satisfaction from their own future careers. They saw their parents sharing the home workload and learned that in successful families, everyone pitches in and that running the household is everybody's job, not mom's. They learned to cook, to wash dishes and clothes, vacuum. They learned that hiring people to do some things (yard work and housecleaning) makes sense, because the extra family time was well worth the money.

And to anyone who says a full-time working mom isn't raising her own kids, I'd retort that you haven't met mine. While they were sometimes exposed to somewhat different value systems through nannies and daycare, they have absolutely internalized the core values they were raised with. And furthermore - they know why. They recognize that different good people hold different priorities, and that they will need to decide for themselves what their own priorities are. Just as we all do --

"Well, that's an interesting assumption." can be a very effective conversation-ender.
 

DokterMom

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OTOH, having strangers play the role Nanny's play in raising a kid(s) wouldn't have worked for me personally, so it depends on what each woman's comfort level is with having someone else play such a large role in their kid's life.
"Strangers"? Certainly not!

Parents need to vette a nanny like no other employee and must have absolute confidence in the person they choose for such a critical job. The woman who was my older son's nanny for the first two years of his life was like a sister to me. She was kind, loving, rational and intelligent, and she absolutely adored kids. She was wonderful with him and my son was very lucky to have her. If I'm being perfectly honest, there were times I felt twinges of jealousy because of their closeness. But it was so obviously in everyone's best interests. I knew what her values were because they were the same as mine.

Calling her a "stranger"? Horrors! That word just doesn't fit.
 
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Not a mom at this point, but I hate the backhanded judgmental comments that come from people who are stay at home parents. As in "oh I totally support working mothers, but I just wouldn't be comfortable with a stranger raising my kids". That's not support. That's barely tolerance combined with holding yourself in superiority over others. Or "I don't know how you do it, I barely have time to get the housework done as is". As if all working parents either pay someone to do all cooking and cleaning (yah right) or live in slovenly pits and feed their children McDonald's for every meal. Looking after kids is a hard job. Of course it's hard (I did the swim lessons/daycare thing for several years, so although I don't totally get it, I mostly do) But it's not the same as having a job (I'm not even going to say it's harder or easier), so I'm not sure why people insist on saying that. I think if someone wants to stay home, great. I also get that some people are forced to stay home by the price of daycare. But can't they just try to be content with that choice/circumstance and stop subtle (or not so subtle) judging others.

OP: I'll give you yet another anecdotal example - my mom worked full time for most of my life. I had nannies (whom I loved! Just went to visit one and her children, who are named after my sister and I, the other day) but I was never confused about who was raising me. I have a better relationship with my parents that nearly everyone I know who had stay and home moms. Finally, I am so darn proud of my mom's career and she's definitely a role model for my own life. That woman who said that to you was probably bitter about her own life. Not worth your time or worry.

PS what I don't understand (and maybe I'm missing something so if someone explains it to me I'll be happy to alter my opinion) is people who stay home after all kids are in school.
 
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TheTao

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"Strangers"? Certainly not!......Calling her a "stranger"? Horrors! That word just doesn't fit.
I think you're too sensitized to what the word stranger means generally speaking. In the context of this thread topic, I mean someone that you're not related to having open access to your family and children. And that's not something I would ever have been comfortable with, but if you are/were, more power to you!

BTW, of course you "vette" people who will be around your children/family, that goes without saying.
 

DokterMom

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I think you're too sensitized to what the word stranger means generally speaking. In the context of this thread topic, I mean someone that you're not related to having open access to your family and children. And that's not something I would ever have been comfortable with, but if you are/were, more power to you!

BTW, of course you "vette" people who will be around your children/family, that goes without saying.
Sensitized to it? Absolutely. But whether you intended it or not, when you wrote:

"OTOH, having strangers play the role Nanny's play in raising a kid(s) wouldn't have worked for me personally, so it depends on what each woman's comfort level is with having someone else play such a large role in their kid's life."
...there is some implied judgement in the word, and even in the sentiment. See @amichel 's post above for a well-worded description.

Quite simply, I would never employ a nanny in whom I could not place absolute trust for the lives and well-being of my children. And neither would any other caring parent.
 
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HoboCommander

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Women in high powered careers tend not to want to have children usually, so it's not really a big issue either way. But it's interesting to hear both sides argue over it. Personally, from what I see, being a stay-at-home mom is much harder than doing a residency and definitely earns my respect.
 
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PL198

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Women in high powered careers tend not to want to have children usually, so it's not really a big issue either way. But it's interesting to hear both sides argue over it. Personally, from what I see, being a stay-at-home mom is much harder than doing a residency and definitely earns my respect.
ok
 

bc65

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But yeah homemakers, such a tough profession. It's really difficult sitting around home and watching TV all day and then whining about how hard your life is
I won't quote what was said about this comment, but I share the sentiments.

During my wife's first pregnancy, our obstetrician, who has 3 kids, told us that there were days when she was home with her infant when her husband would come home from work and she would realize that she hadn't had time yet to brush her teeth, let alone shower. We rolled our eyes at each other behind her back. It turned out, she was right. It was the same for us. Some days the baby cries, eats, poops, cries, diaper change, then baby falls asleep in your arms. You move, baby wakes up and cries. So you don't move. Paternity leave was much busier than being a surgeon, and having a newborn at home resulted in more sleep deprivation than my surgery internship, which I did in the days before there was an 80 hour work limit.
 

frosted_flake

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Tell her to fill her middle of ****ing the day time with some other things I see soccer moms doing:

Pilates
Getting 100 items in grocery store
Driving really bad
Ordering "2 pump" pumpkin spice lattes
#ing on social media how hard it is to be a mom
Organizing PTA events to bitch about life, not focusing on the kids
Trying out that new recipe for monkey bread
Down-talking a blue collar worker
Banging a blue collar worker

Or any other thing that doesn't involve you.
I just laughed SO hard...
 

DokterMom

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I won't quote what was said about this comment, but I share the sentiments.

During my wife's first pregnancy, our obstetrician, who has 3 kids, told us that there were days when she was home with her infant when her husband would come home from work and she would realize that she hadn't had time yet to brush her teeth, let alone shower. We rolled our eyes at each other behind her back. It turned out, she was right. It was the same for us. Some days the baby cries, eats, poops, cries, diaper change, then baby falls asleep in your arms. You move, baby wakes up and cries. So you don't move. Paternity leave was much busier than being a surgeon, and having a newborn at home resulted in more sleep deprivation than my surgery internship, which I did in the days before there was an 80 hour work limit.
:claps: So nice to hear a male surgeon say that. :claps: And when you're busy at work doing surgeries, at the end of an exhausting day, you at least have the satisfaction of knowing that, most days, you made a significant positive contribution to other people's lives.

Staying home with a newborn, your finest moment is when that precious child finally drifts off to sleep. Not that it's not rewarding. But talk about delayed gratification...
 
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Barker Posey

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Just this thread alone shows the variety of strongly-held opinions on the subject, and very few who have lived either life. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to care for my kids when they were young. I worked, but from home and on my own schedule, for the most part. I was exhausted, messy and occasionally brain dead, but never spent a day eating bon bons in front of the TV. Now that they're older and I'm in med school, I know my kids feel my absence acutely, because they are old enough to tell me so. I also know that they are proud of me for pursuing a career they see as honorable, and inspired to do their school work, because that's a time when we can all hang out. There is no balance. I feel mediocre at everything I do, but somehow, 3 years in, my kids are prospering. I'm learning to accept imperfection in all of us, and I've never been happier.
 

Prince090

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Everybody thinks they are right while others are wrong.

Professional women look down upon sahm.
Sahm feel sorry for professional women.

This is going on for decades now. Trying to rationalize one's life choices is inherent to human beings.
 

HoboCommander

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Everybody thinks they are right while others are wrong.

Professional women look down upon sahm.
Sahm feel sorry for professional women.

This is going on for decades now. Trying to rationalize one's life choices is inherent to human beings.
there is no disagreement here at all. every single woman i know who has gone through both residency and raising 2-3 kids at home agrees that being a mom is much harder.
 

sloop

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Everyone here judging this woman is exactly why women like her judge working moms! Both sides are defensive so they attack the other side.

Lots of women do medicine, and most of those women become moms at some point. Most of their kids are just fine, just like most kids of SAHMs are fine. Don't worry about impressing this lady, just do your thing and find other working moms to relate to.
I get this egalitarian sentiment, but doesn't the fact that you mention—that the children of both stay at home moms and working moms by and large turn out well—undermine the claim that what stay at home moms do is highly valuable?

I mean, I'm all in favor of people doing what makes them happy without too much criticism, but the logic does not seem to work with your argument.
 

KHE

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I have learned, as a 41 year old man with two boys, 11 and 7 that there is NOTHING in this world more judgmental than mothers, ESPECIALLY when discussing other mothers.
 

Dral

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I always hear all this talk about how women are not supportive of other women. I believe it's worth trying to improve that issue, but there is more to it than that.

If a man were to decide to go into nursing, another man may comment in a derogatory way about the sexuality of said man. In that case, it usually isn't perceived as not being supportive...it is just an ignorant comment. However, when a derogatory comment is made by a woman about another woman, it is then 'not supportive'. I understand that there are certain societal issues that may dictate that women should be more supportive of one another based on the fact that most societies exist with a power differential in favor of males, but I believe there is more to it than that.

There will always be people who make such comments. It is best to try to work toward preventing the comments or better yet, changing the mindset that causes the comments to be made. However, I believe the best course of action is for the person who is at the receiving end of the derogatory comment to just try their best to not take the comment to heart. Being the better person by proving that one is secure with who they are and not letting those comments get to them is the ultimate high road.

Not as secure: "Someone made a comment that makes me think I can't be a doctor and a mother...hmmm, that makes me upset and now I question my life goals."

Secure: "Someone made a comment about women not being able to be a doctor and a mother. I'm good at planning things and am pretty dynamic and goal oriented. I know that others have made it work and I believe I can be both a good physician and a good mother, regardless of what that person thinks or says."

I like the second one.
 
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bc65

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Oct 16, 2013
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Attending Physician
Stay at home parenting is overrated, in my experience.

Our first child was cared for by a nanny for a month, which was highly unsatisfactory. A grandmother took over, supplemented by preschool starting at age 2. For our second child, we found a wonderful daycare/preschool on a medical center campus 10 minutes from home and 5 minutes from my wife's work. We were able to have our child go there despite not being employees. Almost all the parents were physicians, and parents were in and out all day. There were 6 rooms, segregated by age, and covered ages 6 weeks through pre-k. They were open 6 am to 6 pm, M-Fri. It was the best care imaginable, far better than staying home with a parent or grandparent. Better socialization and enrichment, and caregivers fully focused on the children, and not also trying to keep the house in order. Our child loved it. The caregivers loved the kids, and cried every time a child graduated to the next room. Speaking only for myself, our child got far better care and attention in pre-school than they got at home from us. The focus was entirely on them, and they were being exposed to a designed curriculum of experiences from 6 weeks of age and beyond, rather than haphazard distracted babysitting at home. ( And before anyone makes snarky comments, try doing it yourself first and see how you do.)
 
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Apr 23, 2015
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The medical director where I work had five kids! As far as I can tell, everybody is in awe.

Your neighbor's probably jealous
 
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KHE

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Jun 14, 2005
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I always hear all this talk about how women are not supportive of other women. I believe it's worth trying to improve that issue, but there is more to it than that.

If a man were to decide to go into nursing, another man may comment in a derogatory way about the sexuality of said man. In that case, it usually isn't perceived as not being supportive...it is just an ignorant comment. However, when a derogatory comment is made by a woman about another woman, it is then 'not supportive'. I understand that there are certain societal issues that may dictate that women should be more supportive of one another based on the fact that most societies exist with a power differential in favor of males, but I believe there is more to it than that.
This is going to sound sexist and misogynistic but this is TRUE. It is the way women are hard wired and the way they are socialized from a young age. Can anyone identify a more obnoxious, gossipy, judgmental towards their peers person than a pre-teen or teenage girl? Unfortunately for many, this carries over into adulthood.


Young boys get together and discuss the size of their genitalia and come up with the most disgusting ways to insult each others mothers.
Young girls will get together and spend their time chatting and gossiping about every other girl in the school and how horrible they are.

Most women never outgrow that.

If a bunch of men go out to dinner and one guy pulls out at the last minute, this is how the conversation goes:

"Hey.....where the hell is Jim?"
"Jim couldn't make it. Had to work late."
"Are you serious? What a fuc**ng pus*y that guy is!"

And then we start eating wings, drinking beer and Jim is not mentioned again for the rest of the night.

When that goes down with a bunch of women, the women at the lunch IMMEDIATELY start tearing down the one who couldn't make it and will do so for a good three and a half hours. They will tear down her weight, her clothes, her husband, her bratty, stupid children, the fact that she's such a bitch etc. etc. And they will do all of that EVEN IF the missing woman is attractive, stylish and his nice kids. In fact, they'll probably tear her down MORE.
 
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DokterMom

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Sadly, there's some truth in this. However, a better class of women DO outgrow it, though often it's not until they're over 30 or even 40. I think it's more socialization than innate hard-wiring as we're trained from infancy not to hit each other and to use our words instead. For women, the only socially-acceptable means of aggression is the verbal snipe -- so of course we perfect it.

And if you haven't heard guys gossiping every bit as much, then you have a better class of friend than my husband does. (Though that's a distinct possibility...)
 
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Silmaril

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What this lady said was extremely harsh and illogical, which does indicate that her tirade sprang from jealousy and/or regret. If she was happy and secure in her role as a stay-at-home mother, she wouldn't feel the need to tear someone else's life choices apart. There are plenty of stay-at-home mothers who are perfectly satisfied with their situation. Women studying medicine will combat the negative attitudes by continuing to become doctors and also raise successful, well-adjusted, happy children - as they are doing now. The accusations will die out soon enough.

I have faced a couple of (much friendlier) criticisms already (although I am still pre-med), which I take as an opportunity to discuss real issues that women (and parents in general) face in medicine. What people say isn't going to change my dream, but I can usually find something useful to take away from the conversation.

The MD mothers (and mothers-to-be) who I see at my hospital are incredibly inspirational, and seeing them perform gave me the last push I needed to pursue medicine, myself. There is something about seeing a pregnant vascular surgery resident continue to show up every day to confidently do her thing that says, "NO EXCUSES." But that's just my opinion.

This article (although older) from the AMA Journal of Ethics, written by a surgeon-mother, is inspiring:

http://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/2008/07/mnar1-0807.html

...Despite any moral outrage people might have about the time someone might spend home with her kids, the fact still remains that the children of independent, successful people are more likely to be independent and successful themselves.
This.
 

Mad Jack

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Jul 27, 2013
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To the moms of SDN,

I was just talking with a woman from my neighborhood about life and work. She started badmouthing a woman we both know for studying medicine. She was saying that women like her are basically guilty of neglect, that if you know you won't be able to spend a lot of time with your kids you may as well not have them... She went on and on about kids being brought up by their nanny and how she feels so "bad" for them.

In my mind, I know that my kids will benefit more from having a happy, satisfied mom who loves her job than they will of having a cranky mom who's with them all the time. My kids will be younger than 8-9 by the time I'm an attending, and I'm sure they won't remember that they only saw me for 2-3 hours a day and on weekends when they were young. Still, her comments hit a soft spot in me and made me doubt my choices for a second.

It is so sad to see that women are each other's worst enemy, when we should be cheering each other on.

How do you all deal with criticism from other women about your career choice? Let's talk!
Just as an fyi, your kids will remember. I certainly remember my mother not being around when I was really young and she was in the military. Do your best to make some time for them if you can. She did the best she could and I don't fault her for it, but those years totally sucked for everyone involved. Be aware that they'll suck and do your best to make them suck as little as possible.