Judged By Other Moms

[bumblebee611]

Just as an fyi, your kids will remember. I certainly remember my mother not being around when I was really young and she was in the military. Do your best to make some time for them if you can. She did the best she could and I don't fault her for it, but those years totally sucked for everyone involved. Be aware that they'll suck and do your best to make them suck as little as possible.

I don't doubt this, but from my own experience--my father was a physician and was in training when I was very young, and I remember him not being around very much and how disappointing and frustrating that could be. My mom was a SAHM for much of the time I was young, though, and she was around all the time. But as an adult, I have a great relationship with my dad and a not-so-good one with my mom. It's not all about the quantity of hours you put in; the quality of those hours does mean something.

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[futuremdforme]

I get this egalitarian sentiment, but doesn't the fact that you mention—that the children of both stay at home moms and working moms by and large turn out well—undermine the claim that what stay at home moms do is highly valuable?

I mean, I'm all in favor of people doing what makes them happy without too much criticism, but the logic does not seem to work with your argument.

Well obviously I am letting my own bias peek through. I don't personally see an advantage to having the mom stay home unless she wants to but other people think that it is important. I imagine that it's similar to arguing whether your kids should be enrolled in activities vs being "free range." Both are probably fine but is one "better?"

 

[jdh71]

There is something to be said for if one doesn't feel "fed" in life by what they are doing (like perhaps someone needs that day to day working environment) then it will be tough to give your best back to others including family and children.

With that said it is possibly "selfish" to perhaps knowingly pick a specialty that will take you away from kids for very long periods of time, especially if the other parent doesn't have some kind of flexibility in hours and availability to raise children directly. Having kids and then having a nanny do all the heavy lifting seems to sort of miss the point (perhaps one should consider not having kids in that kind of situation). I think once you have kids it's not all about "you" anymore. So whe there are many workable set ups and paths forward that satisfy all parties there may be some career choices that are just plain "selfish" in certain contexts.

 

[PL198]

There is something to be said for if one does feel "fed" in life by what they are doing (like perhaps someone needs that day to day working environment) then it will be tough to give your best back to others including family and children.

With that said it is possibly "selfish" to perhaps knowingly pick a specialty that will take you away from kids for very long periods of time, especially if the other parent doesn't have some kind of flexibility in hours and availability to raise children directly. Having kids and then having a nanny do all the heavy lifting seems to sort of miss the point (perhaps one should consider not having kids in that kind of situation). I think once you have kids it's not all about "you" anymore. So whe there are many workae set ups and path forward that satisfy all parties there may be some career choices that are just plain "selfish" in certain contexts.

prepare for outcry. oh the misogyny

maybe not since you're an attending and we all know a little badge by someones name deems how reasonable and significant what they're saying is

 

[jdh71]

prepare for outcry. oh the misogyny

maybe not since you're an attending and we all know a little badge by someones name deems how reasonable and significant what they're saying is

Hm. You really think someone will find what I said so offensive?

 

[amichel]

There is something to be said for if one does feel "fed" in life by what they are doing (like perhaps someone needs that day to day working environment) then it will be tough to give your best back to others including family and children.

With that said it is possibly "selfish" to perhaps knowingly pick a specialty that will take you away from kids for very long periods of time, especially if the other parent doesn't have some kind of flexibility in hours and availability to raise children directly. Having kids and then having a nanny do all the heavy lifting seems to sort of miss the point (perhaps one should consider not having kids in that kind of situation). I think once you have kids it's not all about "you" anymore. So whe there are many workable set ups and paths forward that satisfy all parties there may be some career choices that are just plain "selfish" in certain contexts.

No. You don't get to tell people they shouldn't have kids. Sorry. Full stop.


** just so I don't get called names, note that I said nothing about misogyny and didn't even specify whether I was talking about men or women.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

There is something to be said for if one does feel "fed" in life by what they are doing (like perhaps someone needs that day to day working environment) then it will be tough to give your best back to others including family and children.

With that said it is possibly "selfish" to perhaps knowingly pick a specialty that will take you away from kids for very long periods of time, especially if the other parent doesn't have some kind of flexibility in hours and availability to raise children directly. Having kids and then having a nanny do all the heavy lifting seems to sort of miss the point (perhaps one should consider not having kids in that kind of situation). I think once you have kids it's not all about "you" anymore. So whe there are many workable set ups and paths forward that satisfy all parties there may be some career choices that are just plain "selfish" in certain contexts.

the question just remains which parent should give up their dreams

 

[Mad Jack]

No. You don't get to tell people they shouldn't have kids. Sorry. Full stop.


** just so I don't get called names, note that I said nothing about misogyny and didn't even specify whether I was talking about men or women.

If neither parent is available the vast majority of the time, saying that perhaps having children would be a selfish act that was more about you than them, and that you were putting your own wants above their needs is correct. Children do need the love of a parent with some regularity, that's not something a nanny can provide.

 

[fancymylotus]

This is what grandparents are for. The end

 

[jdh71]

No. You don't get to tell people they shouldn't have kids. Sorry. Full stop.

Of course I do. Lol.

Stop me.

 

[jdh71]

the question just remains which parent should give up their dreams

Why should anyone necessarily give up a dream? It seems more than a little paternalistic to suggest that the only "good/valuable" adult day activity is working a job for 40 to 60 hours per week.

If *working* in medicine is your "dream". I might humbly suggest getting a better "dream".

If both folks in a couple are hard-charging-have-to-work-60-hours-per-week types then they should NOT have kids. The good thing is usually one person doesn't give a **** as much as the other.

 

[jdh71]

If neither parent is available the vast majority of the time, saying that perhaps having children would be a selfish act that was more about you than them, and that you were putting your own wants above their needs is correct. Children do need the love of a parent with some regularity, that's not something a nanny can provide.

The thing I might like best about you MJ is your ability to actually read and comprehend.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I do think it is incredibly ironic that feminists fought for women to have a choice to be in the workforce yet the result is a generation of professsional women who feel so incredibly guilty about being a stay at home mom even if that is exactly what they want.

 

[amichel]

Why should anyone necessarily give up a dream? It seems more than a little paternalistic to suggest that the only "good/valuable" adult day activity is working a job for 40 to 60 hours per week.

If *working* in medicine is your "dream". I might humbly suggest getting a better "dream".

If both folks in a couple are hard-charging-have-to-work-60-hours-per-week types then they should NOT have kids. The good thing is usually one person doesn't give a **** as much as the other.

What about people who have to work 60 hours a week to make ends meet? Should they not have kids either? Single parents? What about people with disabilities? They can't do everything "normal" parents do either.

 

[Mad Jack]

What about people who have to work 60 hours a week to make ends meet? Should they not have kids either? Single parents? What about people with disabilities? They can't do everything "normal" parents do either.

There's a big difference between choosing self-fulfillment over your children and doing everything you can to keep your children from starving.

 

[amichel]

There's a big difference between choosing self-fulfillment over your children and doing everything you can to keep your children from starving.

Maybe. But the result is the same. So why is it okay for one to have children but not the other?

 

[Mad Jack]

Maybe. But the result is the same. So why is it okay for one to have children but not the other?

In the real world, intent matters. If you shoot a man because you thought you would enjoy it, that is terrible. If you shoot a man because he was trying to kill your family, that is necessary. Both have the same result- a man is dead. But the intent is what makes one thing horrible and the other forgivable.

Look at it from the child's perspective. If you are working your ass off because you want to, not because you need to, your child will assume you love work more than you love them, or that you are trying to get away from them. Kids don't understand self-actualization and the like, they just perceive that you love your career more than you love them. If you are working because you have to, kids can see it. You can't hide that you're struggling, that you're doing what you need to to survive. They can tell you want to be with them more than working, but you both know that you must work because it is necessary. Kids are feeling creatures that need love and affection, that can see and feel what is going on around them. They aren't utilitarian automatons that only see outcomes. That's the difference.

 

[jdh71]

What about people who have to work 60 hours a week to make ends meet? Should they not have kids either? Single parents? What about people with disabilities? They can't do everything "normal" parents do either.

What about all of them?? I think I was addressing a single point. You can start a new thread about the rest if you like. In a general sense though, yeah, if you can't actually raise a kid, then maybe you shouldn't have one. This isn't some kind of outrageous suggestion. Plus define "normal". *If* normal means "participating in the raising of your own children" then *if* you can't be "normal" then you shouldn't have kids. It's not like this isn't any thing but an option in the western world.

 

[PL198]

Hm. You really think someone will find what I said so offensive?

The feminists will find something to complain about in anything. I'm telling you if it said medical student next to your name after that comment, you would have been slaughtered.

 

[PL198]

the question just remains which parent should give up their dreams

How do you think gender roles start in the first place? Because they work. How does any stereotype work? By being true.
There's exceptions to every rule but that doesn't make the rule untrue. Gender roles work for large majorities of couples, hence how they are used


NY people are known as terrible drivers. Why is that? Because people from new York drive like they're insane! Earth shattering I know

 

[TheTao]

The feminists will find something to complain about in anything. I'm telling you if it said medical student next to your name after that comment, you would have been slaughtered.

And why is that when what she said is basic common sense IMHO??

BTW, a premed saying something like that would have been run off the board, LOL!!

 

[jdh71]

The feminists will find something to complain about in anything. I'm telling you if it said medical student next to your name after that comment, you would have been slaughtered.

So I suppose I should be thankful for that. But the outrage doesn't make any sense. Any person's time is a zero sum game. If you won't have time to raise kids don't have them. Plenty of medical specialties will allow for this even with residency factored in and plenty that won't.

 

[jw3600]

Personally, from what I see, being a stay-at-home mom is much harder than doing a residency and definitely earns my respect.

Raising children is stressful and time consuming but this statement is a complete crock of ****.

Full time live in nannies can be hired for 40-50k. The market has determined the value of that duty. Try getting someone to be a physician for 80 hours a week for that pay without the caveat of mandatory training for licensure. You have got to be ****ting me.

 

[jdh71]

Raising children is stressful and time consuming but this statement is a complete crock of ****.

Full time live in nannies can be hired for 40-50k. The market has determined the value of that duty. Try getting someone to be a physician for 80 hours a week for that pay without the caveat of mandatory training for licensure. You have got to be ****ting me.

I might suggest what is a complete crock of **** is reducing the importance or difficulties of someone jobs and duties to what they can get for that job on the open market. Hedge fund managers have the most important hardest jobs in the world then?

 

[jw3600]

I might suggest what is a complete crock of **** is reducing the importance or difficulties of someone jobs and duties to what they can get for that job on the open market. Hedge fund managers have the most important hardest jobs in the world then?

Fair point. There are a few factors that make the market for hedge fund managers not exactly a free market but I'll concede that. I would really like to here your evaluation of the statement that residency is easier than being a stay at home mom.

 

[bc65]

There are a few factors that make the market for hedge fund managers not exactly a free market but I'll concede that. I would really like to here your evaluation of the statement that residency is easier than being a stay at home mom.

I was home with my kids for a few months after they were born, and being home with them was harder than being at work as a surgeon. Whey you're with an infant, they make constant demands on you. The times when they nap are your only opportunities to take care of bodily functions, such as going to the bathroom and brushing your teeth. Showers require careful timing, usually having the baby dozing in a swing and hoping they don't wake up until you're done. At work, the most unreasonable patient is far more logical than an infant, who wants something, but you don't know what, and won't stop screaming until he gets it. At work, I almost always can go to the bathroom whenever I want. Not so when home with an infant. At work, I can almost always get something to eat, even during surgery. Not so when home alone with a newborn. Believe what you want, but why not report back with your expereinces after you have done both.

Full time live in nannies can be hired for 40-50k. The market has determined the value of that duty.

You are misunderstanding the difficulty and value of a job, with the scarcity of the skills that a job requires. Salaries are primarily determined by scarcity ( ie supply and demand) and not based on the importance of what's done. That's why the best basketball player, of little value to society, makes far more money that a preschool teacher or a cardiologist, who are demonstrably more important. Police and military personel are essential to the survival of our civilization, but the barrier to entry is low, almost anyone can qualify for those jobs, and they require few if any prior skills. So, the pay is low. Not becasue the job is not important, but because there are many people available and willing to do that job. Childcare has a similarly low barrier to entry, with essentially no education lever or skills needed to do it, although the quality of the work performed might vary widely, and work itself is valuable to society and priceless to the parents.

 

[jdh71]

Fair point. There are a few factors that make the market for hedge fund managers not exactly a free market but I'll concede that. I would really like to here your evaluation of the statement that residency is easier than being a stay at home mom.

Neither are easy. Perhaps the nicest thing about work is that it ends. It might be a 14 hour day but at some point it stops for awhile. The same can be said of residency it eventually ends. Time is on your side. You can't make the same case for parenting. It hard in different ways but arguably just as hard or harder in many ways.

After the birth of our second son my wife decided to stay home with him because we could afford it and in many ways because we sumu had no real choice in the matter with our first - SHE was the main source of income I'm those days while I was nose deep in books. And she loves her time being home with our second but it's also driving her a bit nuts. It's anecdotal for sure but she swears work was easier than this stay at home mom stuff (she's an RN and did hospital nursing supervisor work at university hospitals - so lots of stress with staffing and the ED and the OR and transfers into the facility for tertiary/quaternary care). She's planning to go back to work when our little guy is in preschool more for her own sense of sanity. So. What I can say is home all day with two kids is challenging. Thankfully no ones life is seriously at stake like my current job and I love it when get whole days with my kids but it's not easy. Maybe when they get a bit okder?? But I'm sure that will come with its own problems!

 

[DokterMom]

There is something to be said for if one doesn't feel "fed" in life by what they are doing (like perhaps someone needs that day to day working environment) then it will be tough to give your best back to others including family and children.

With that said it is possibly "selfish" to perhaps knowingly pick a specialty that will take you away from kids for very long periods of time, especially if the other parent doesn't have some kind of flexibility in hours and availability to raise children directly. Having kids and then having a nanny do all the heavy lifting seems to sort of miss the point (perhaps one should consider not having kids in that kind of situation). I think once you have kids it's not all about "you" anymore. So whe there are many workable set ups and paths forward that satisfy all parties there may be some career choices that are just plain "selfish" in certain contexts.

Curious how you would define the "heavy lifting" --

I am not, by virtue of my uterus, uniquely qualified to change this dirty diaper or that soiled one. And for the important things (important to me or to my child), I was always there. Frankly, there's a whole lot of tedium involved in raising children, and having "the boring work" done by someone else can free up the parent-child time for more meaningful activities -- long nature walks, cooking together, the 'hard' homework, and bedtime hugs.

 

[jdh71]

Curious how you would define the "heavy lifting" --

I am not, by virtue of my uterus, uniquely qualified to change this dirty diaper or that soiled one. And for the important things (important to me or to my child), I was always there. Frankly, there's a whole lot of tedium involved in raising children, and having "the boring work" done by someone else can free up the parent-child time for more meaningful activities -- long nature walks, cooking together, the 'hard' homework, and bedtime hugs.

Lol. You don't need to apologize or rationalize to me your lack of hands on raising of your own child. If you don't think there is something important for both you and your child in you doing that "boring work" then I humbly suggest you don't get it and never will. Just bringing a child into the world doesn't make you a parent. It's more than a bit odd to suggest only the things YOU seem fun are "good parenting". Oh? You hugged your kid?! Good for you. Have a cookie. All in or don't have them. You can disagree. It's a fee country and any uterus that wants to can or cannot have or produce offspring but you'll never convince me your style is "parenting". (Which may save you a lot of hate reply energy)

 

[DokterMom]

Lol. You don't need to apologize or rationalize to me your lack of hands on raising of your own child. If you don't think there is something important for both you and your child in you doing that "boring work" then I humbly suggest you don't get it and never will. Just bringing a child into the world doesn't make you a parent. It's more than a bit odd to suggest only the things YOU seem fun are "good parenting". Oh? You hugged your kid?! Good for you. Have a cookie. All in or don't have them. You can disagree. It's a fee country and any uterus that wants to can or cannot have or produce offspring but you'll never convince me your style is "parenting". (Which may save you a lot of hate reply energy)

Say that after you've met my children -- There was no lack of 'hands on' and no lack of 'parenting'. Just not 24-7.

You know -- Kind of like you, since I see you have a job.

 

[charmiedermie]

To the moms of SDN,

I was just talking with a woman from my neighborhood about life and work. She started badmouthing a woman we both know for studying medicine. She was saying that women like her are basically guilty of neglect, that if you know you won't be able to spend a lot of time with your kids you may as well not have them... She went on and on about kids being brought up by their nanny and how she feels so "bad" for them.

In my mind, I know that my kids will benefit more from having a happy, satisfied mom who loves her job than they will of having a cranky mom who's with them all the time. My kids will be younger than 8-9 by the time I'm an attending, and I'm sure they won't remember that they only saw me for 2-3 hours a day and on weekends when they were young. Still, her comments hit a soft spot in me and made me doubt my choices for a second.

It is so sad to see that women are each other's worst enemy, when we should be cheering each other on.

How do you all deal with criticism from other women about your career choice? Let's talk!

You need to really read Jessica Kirkland's post online on Anna Duggar about raising your daughters to think they breathe fire. Next time you are questioned about this, you say that you didn't want yourself or your children, to end up in a situation, like Anna Duggar, where they are trapped and 100% dependent on a man.

People may talk behind my back, but no one tells me to my face I'm neglecting my kids.

Isn't it always this way? What would you say if they said it to your face?

 

[jdh71]

Say that after you've met my children -- There was no lack of 'hands on' and no lack of 'parenting'. Just not 24-7.

You know -- Kind of like you, since I see you have a job.

Did you change diapers?

 

[charmiedermie]

They don't have any. They spend 90% of the day screwing around wasting time. But yeah homemakers, such a tough profession. It's really difficult sitting around home and watching TV all day and then whining about how hard your life is

Educate yourself on what staying at home and raising your children unpaid involves.

I always hear all this talk about how women are not supportive of other women. I believe it's worth trying to improve that issue, but there is more to it than that.

If a man were to decide to go into nursing, another man may comment in a derogatory way about the sexuality of said man. In that case, it usually isn't perceived as not being supportive...it is just an ignorant comment. However, when a derogatory comment is made by a woman about another woman, it is then 'not supportive'. I understand that there are certain societal issues that may dictate that women should be more supportive of one another based on the fact that most societies exist with a power differential in favor of males, but I believe there is more to it than that.

There will always be people who make such comments. It is best to try to work toward preventing the comments or better yet, changing the mindset that causes the comments to be made. However, I believe the best course of action is for the person who is at the receiving end of the derogatory comment to just try their best to not take the comment to heart. Being the better person by proving that one is secure with who they are and not letting those comments get to them is the ultimate high road.

Not as secure: "Someone made a comment that makes me think I can't be a doctor and a mother...hmmm, that makes me upset and now I question my life goals."

Secure: "Someone made a comment about women not being able to be a doctor and a mother. I'm good at planning things and am pretty dynamic and goal oriented. I know that others have made it work and I believe I can be both a good physician and a good mother, regardless of what that person thinks or says."

I like the second one.

Men see being classified as feminine as a weaker, lower class position. They think of it as a judgement on their sexual orientation, strength, whatever. Women should defend other women's choices and not morally judge them for it, since men already do.

 

[Dral]

Educate yourself on what staying at home and raising your children unpaid involves.

Men see being classified as feminine as a weaker, lower class position. They think of it as a judgement on their sexual orientation, strength, whatever. Women should defend other women's choices and not morally judge them for it, since men already do.

Correct...that's what I implied (other than the sexual orientation part).

Oddly, a woman referring to another woman as being 'sooooo butch' for deciding to play football would also be construed as not being supportive...and a man ridiculing another man weightlifter as 'just being a meathead' wouldn't be taken as not being supportive.

 

[PL198]

Educate yourself on what staying at home and raising your children unpaid involves.

Men see being classified as feminine as a weaker, lower class position. They think of it as a judgement on their sexual orientation, strength, whatever. Women should defend other women's choices and not morally judge them for it, since men already do.

if you think a surgical residency is easier than doing a bunch of household errands, playing delivery man with the kids to soccer practice ,music lessons, school etc and then feeding them, you're nuts.

It's possible to recognize that parenting is extremely important(hence why I agree with JDH that when 2 parents work 60+ hours a week and have a kid, that's neglectful), without saying insane stuff like being a stay at home mom is more difficult than a surgical residency. Millions of people manage to be stay at home moms just fine, meanwhile surgical residency attrition rates are probably like low double digits. But yeah it's totally because the surgical residents are such pansies, if only they could learn from the "homemakers." Give me a break.

 

[DokterMom]

Did you change diapers?

Of course.

 

[DokterMom]

if you think a surgical residency is easier than doing a bunch of household errands, playing delivery man with the kids to soccer practice ,music lessons, school etc and then feeding them, you're nuts.

It's possible to recognize that parenting is extremely important(hence why I agree with JDH that when 2 parents work 60+ hours a week and have a kid, that's neglectful), without saying insane stuff like being a stay at home mom is more difficult than a surgical residency. Millions of people manage to be stay at home moms just fine, meanwhile surgical residency attrition rates are probably like low double digits. But yeah it's totally because the surgical residents are such pansies, if only they could learn from the "homemakers." Give me a break.

I'd challenge him to stay home and take care of a young child or two 24-7 for a full week if it wasn't for the safety and well-being of the poor children.

 

[amichel]

Lol. You don't need to apologize or rationalize to me your lack of hands on raising of your own child. If you don't think there is something important for both you and your child in you doing that "boring work" then I humbly suggest you don't get it and never will. Just bringing a child into the world doesn't make you a parent. It's more than a bit odd to suggest only the things YOU seem fun are "good parenting". Oh? You hugged your kid?! Good for you. Have a cookie. All in or don't have them. You can disagree. It's a fee country and any uterus that wants to can or cannot have or produce offspring but you'll never convince me your style is "parenting". (Which may save you a lot of hate reply energy)

Wow, how rude.

 

[jdh71]

Of course.

Then it doesn't sound like you actually avoided all that "boring" stuff you were snobbing out about earlier.

 

[amichel]

Did you change diapers?

No. She probably had 24 hour help to change diapers 365/year.

*end sarcasm*

 

[fancymylotus]

Jdh, you know I love you and this is not me being a total bitch, but your wife could afford to stop working for the time being and still maintain the same lifestyle you had previously, (I'm assuming), due to your work circumstances and geographic location.

I could not stop working and maintain my lifestyle in metro NYC even when Kaus is an attending unless we get really lucky w his job offers....or move.

 

[jdh71]

I'd challenge him to stay home and take care of a young child or two 24-7 for a full week if it wasn't for the safety and well-being of the poor children.

Who me? I've done that. What would make you think I would be unable?

 

[jdh71]

Wow, how rude.

Yes. And?

 

[bc65]

Lol. You don't need to apologize or rationalize to me your lack of hands on raising of your own child. If you don't think there is something important for both you and your child in you doing that "boring work" then I humbly suggest you don't get it and never will. Just bringing a child into the world doesn't make you a parent. It's more than a bit odd to suggest only the things YOU seem fun are "good parenting". Oh? You hugged your kid?! Good for you. Have a cookie. All in or don't have them

So then, you're saying that since you aren't home with the kids any more, since you now work, the above applies to you now, right?

 

[Smurfette]

Who me? I've done that. What would make you think I would be unable?

Given she quoted PL198, pretty sure that's who she was referring to.

 

[DokterMom]

Then it doesn't sound like you actually avoided all that "boring" stuff you were snobbing out about earlier.

All of it? Of course not. I just raised my children while also enjoying a demanding career, and utilized the best combination of additional resources I could find (spouse, nanny, day care) to get everything done well - or well enough. Like the med students on this forum who decide to have children will do.

My point is that there's a lot of parenting work that can be done by others without sacrificing much of anything that's truly important to a child's well-being -- like diapers between 7:30 am and 7:00 pm. I believe family mealtime is important, so made sure to be home to eat breakfast and dinner with my kids almost every night. Who cooked that meal was considerably less important, though I made sure both kids learned how to cook and often cook with them now. Helping with 'the hard homework' was something I considered important, so I had the afternoon teen babysitter help them get through the easy stuff and saved the hard stuff for myself. Bedtime stories were very important, so always Mom or Dad. Housecleaning and yard work? Outsourced all but the 'everyone should know how to' stuff -- Discussions about current affairs, politics, religion, values and the arts? Very important, frequent and in-depth. Reality TV -- not so much.

Did I 'cherry pick' parenting? You bet. And I raised some great kids.

 

[Mad Jack]

Jdh, you know I love you and this is not me being a total bitch, but your wife could afford to stop working for the time being and still maintain the same lifestyle you had previously, (I'm assuming), due to your work circumstances and geographic location.

I could not stop working and maintain my lifestyle in metro NYC even when Kaus is an attending unless we get really lucky w his job offers....or move.

You don't need to be a SAHM to be a good mother. You working 40 hours isn't going to obliterate your relationship with your children, particularly with your relatively supportive extended family.

 

[jdh71]

Jdh, you know I love you and this is not me being a total bitch, but your wife could afford to stop working for the time being and still maintain the same lifestyle you had previously, (I'm assuming), due to your work circumstances and geographic location.

I could not stop working and maintain my lifestyle in metro NYC even when Kaus is an attending unless we get really lucky w his job offers....or move.

Of course she could. She has the luxury to do what she wants. Which is a nice thing.

But we wouldn't have had a second child of she wouldn't have stayed home. We both decided we wanted that. And it's been fantastic.

You know that's all the more reason to move from godforsaken locales.

 

[jdh71]

So then, you're saying that since you aren't home with the kids any more, since you now work, the above applies to you now, right?

No. I have a wife who is currently home. Do you have trouble with reading?

 

[jdh71]

All of it? Of course not. I just raised my children while also enjoying a demanding career, and utilized the best combination of additional resources I could find (spouse, nanny, day care) to get everything done well - or well enough. Like the med students on this forum who decide to have children will do.

My point is that there's a lot of parenting work that can be done by others without sacrificing much of anything that's truly important to a child's well-being -- like diapers between 7:30 am and 7:00 pm. I believe family mealtime is important, so made sure to be home to eat breakfast and dinner with my kids almost every night. Who cooked that meal was considerably less important, though I made sure both kids learned how to cook and often cook with them now. Helping with 'the hard homework' was something I considered important, so I had the afternoon teen babysitter help them get through the easy stuff and saved the hard stuff for myself. Bedtime stories were very important, so always Mom or Dad. Housecleaning and yard work? Outsourced all but the 'everyone should know how to' stuff -- Discussions about current affairs, politics, religion, values and the arts? Very important, frequent and in-depth. Reality TV -- not so much.

Did I 'cherry pick' parenting? You bet. And I raised some great kids.

I think history has shown that time and again kids often turn out fine despite bad parenting. So I wouldn't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on the back too much. It all could simply be confirmation bias.

Like I told you quite a few posts back you don't need to apologize or rationalize to me about this. If this saves you any more time.