Just a little warning...

[AFRadiolgist]

First, I want to say good luck to all of you who have applied to medical school and congratulations to those who have been accepted. I registered on this site (please excuse my misspelling of Radiologist) to offer a friendly warning to those of you who will be my future colleagues in the medical profession.

For those who have been or will be accepted to medical school, you will need to find a way to pay for it. Whatever you do, do not accept the HPSP (military) scholarship. Beg, borrow, or steal but don’t join the military medical service. Like me and the vast majority of my fellow military physicians, by agreeing to join the military medical corps, you will be making the biggest professional mistake of your lives.

For those who don’t heed my warning, here is what you can expect:

After an arduous journey lasting over a decade (including undergrad, med school, and residency) you are now a well-trained physician, the expert in your field, compassionate, caring, and ready to alleviate the suffering of many and cure others. You have endured long hours studying, slaving on the medical/surgical wards, and enduring an incredible amount of stress. You have learned from the masters in your field and have passed the multitude of exams including the MCAT, 3 parts of the USMLE, and your specialty board exams. Now YOU are the expert. YOU have the training and experience to alleviate suffering and to cure disease. YOU are at the top of your profession. Nurses, PAs, and medical/surgical techs follow YOUR expert guidance to successfully care for the sick. This is a team concept of patient care that works well in the civilian world.

Now you enter the world of military medicine (also called George Orwell’s medical corpse). Now, instead of the title Dr. Doe, you are now Captain Doe. You will have Major, Lt Colonel, and Colonel nurses, PAs, and other assorted non-physician types in charge, telling you how to run your clinic. You see, the military only recognizes rank, not competency or skill. You will point out in vain to these bureaucrats that you are the board certified physician and, for the patient’s sake, all medical related decisions should be yours to make. Your pleas will fall on deaf or hostile ears – only in the military would nurses, PAs etc. wield so much power over physicians and have so much say in patient care. You do your best to provide the standard of care in such difficult circumstances but not without significant stress.

Another class of denizens with which you will have to deal are the former physicians who occupy the top floor offices. They don’t see patients anymore. They are career, lifers, and for the most part losers who can’t hack it any more (if they ever could). They sit on high, pouring over paperwork, looking at your fitness test, and try to bully/threaten their fellow practicing doctors about the latest bureaucratic rule or the box which was not checked on AF Form 119089832.e.3. They will berate you about attending the latest military training or your poor score on your fit test and then threaten you with an as sundry of punishments, including, Oh my God!, a bad letter in your FILE!!!

You will be appalled by the fact that, due to the severe shortage of physicians in the military, in too many instances nurses and PAs are primarily responsible for the care of patients – including the type of sick patients that made your expert internal medicine preceptors sweat. You will see bad outcomes – all preventable – due to this situation. You see, the military doesn’t care who sees/treats the patients, as long as someone does. I routinely get preliminary reports/opinions on chest xrays written by sergeants (i.e. high school graduates)!! In the real world this would be a criminal act – practicing without a license. However, the military has its own standards which would not be acceptable in the civilian world. They can get away with this because there is no supervision and, by law, military members cannot sue for malpractice.

You will be deployed to the middle east for long periods of time away from your family where, if you’re lucky, you can apply your skills to help the sick and wounded. Or, as happens way too often, you will be some Colonel’s or General’s lackey, arranging visits for other generals or dignitaries, getting coffee, or doing some other menial task better suited for a high school graduate.

Yes, you too can have all of this. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line. At least you can’t say you weren’t warned. I wish I could say the same.

For additional perspective, see www.medicalcorpse.com

For those of you who believe this is all about money, think again. I earn more money now than I ever have. However, for the reasons stated above, no amount of money could keep me in the military beyond my commitment.

Dr Doe, MD, Maj, MC, USAF, MIL, Def, Dum, Shoot, Me, Now
Board Certified physician

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[dd128]

First, I want to say good luck to all of you who have applied to medical school and congratulations to those who have been accepted. I registered on this site (please excuse my misspelling of Radiologist) to offer a friendly warning to those of you who will be my future colleagues in the medical profession.

For those who have been or will be accepted to medical school, you will need to find a way to pay for it. Whatever you do, do not accept the HPSP (military) scholarship. Beg, borrow, or steal but don’t join the military medical service. Like me and the vast majority of my fellow military physicians, by agreeing to join the military medical corps, you will be making the biggest professional mistake of your lives.

For those who don’t heed my warning, here is what you can expect:

After an arduous journey lasting over a decade (including undergrad, med school, and residency) you are now a well-trained physician, the expert in your field, compassionate, caring, and ready to alleviate the suffering of many and cure others. You have endured long hours studying, slaving on the medical/surgical wards, and enduring an incredible amount of stress. You have learned from the masters in your field and have passed the multitude of exams including the MCAT, 3 parts of the USMLE, and your specialty board exams. Now YOU are the expert. YOU have the training and experience to alleviate suffering and to cure disease. YOU are at the top of your profession. Nurses, PAs, and medical/surgical techs follow YOUR expert guidance to successfully care for the sick. This is a team concept of patient care that works well in the civilian world.

Now you enter the world of military medicine (also called George Orwell’s medical corpse). Now, instead of the title Dr. Doe, you are now Captain Doe. You will have Major, Lt Colonel, and Colonel nurses, PAs, and other assorted non-physician types in charge, telling you how to run your clinic. You see, the military only recognizes rank, not competency or skill. You will point out in vain to these bureaucrats that you are the board certified physician and, for the patient’s sake, all medical related decisions should be yours to make. Your pleas will fall on deaf or hostile ears – only in the military would nurses, PAs etc. wield so much power over physicians and have so much say in patient care. You do your best to provide the standard of care in such difficult circumstances but not without significant stress.

Another class of denizens with which you will have to deal are the former physicians who occupy the top floor offices. They don’t see patients anymore. They are career, lifers, and for the most part losers who can’t hack it any more (if they ever could). They sit on high, pouring over paperwork, looking at your fitness test, and try to bully/threaten their fellow practicing doctors about the latest bureaucratic rule or the box which was not checked on AF Form 119089832.e.3. They will berate you about attending the latest military training or your poor score on your fit test and then threaten you with an as sundry of punishments, including, Oh my God!, a bad letter in your FILE!!!

You will be appalled by the fact that, due to the severe shortage of physicians in the military, in too many instances nurses and PAs are primarily responsible for the care of patients – including the type of sick patients that made your expert internal medicine preceptors sweat. You will see bad outcomes – all preventable – due to this situation. You see, the military doesn’t care who sees/treats the patients, as long as someone does. I routinely get preliminary reports/opinions on chest xrays written by sergeants (i.e. high school graduates)!! In the real world this would be a criminal act – practicing without a license. However, the military has its own standards which would not be acceptable in the civilian world. They can get away with this because there is no supervision and, by law, military members cannot sue for malpractice.

You will be deployed to the middle east for long periods of time away from your family where, if you’re lucky, you can apply your skills to help the sick and wounded. Or, as happens way too often, you will be some Colonel’s or General’s lackey, arranging visits for other generals or dignitaries, getting coffee, or doing some other menial task better suited for a high school graduate.

Yes, you too can have all of this. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line. At least you can’t say you weren’t warned. I wish I could say the same.

For additional perspective, see www.medicalcorpse.com

For those of you who believe this is all about money, think again. I earn more money now than I ever have. However, for the reasons stated above, no amount of money could keep me in the military beyond my commitment.

Dr Doe, MD, Maj, MC, USAF, MIL, Def, Dum, Shoot, Me, Now
Board Certified physician

Yeah I'd been considering a HPSP because of all the "benefits" the recruiters give you. I got as far as MEPS and it took every once of self restraint I had to not run out screaming half way through. I have nothing but respect for our men in uniform, but I completely agree it's not a great place for physicians to learn medicine.

 

[Old Grunt]

First, I want to say good luck to all of you who have applied to medical school and congratulations to those who have been accepted. I registered on this site (please excuse my misspelling of Radiologist) to offer a friendly warning to those of you who will be my future colleagues in the medical profession.

For those who have been or will be accepted to medical school, you will need to find a way to pay for it. Whatever you do, do not accept the HPSP (military) scholarship. Beg, borrow, or steal but don’t join the military medical service. Like me and the vast majority of my fellow military physicians, by agreeing to join the military medical corps, you will be making the biggest professional mistake of your lives.

For those who don’t heed my warning, here is what you can expect:

After an arduous journey lasting over a decade (including undergrad, med school, and residency) you are now a well-trained physician, the expert in your field, compassionate, caring, and ready to alleviate the suffering of many and cure others. You have endured long hours studying, slaving on the medical/surgical wards, and enduring an incredible amount of stress. You have learned from the masters in your field and have passed the multitude of exams including the MCAT, 3 parts of the USMLE, and your specialty board exams. Now YOU are the expert. YOU have the training and experience to alleviate suffering and to cure disease. YOU are at the top of your profession. Nurses, PAs, and medical/surgical techs follow YOUR expert guidance to successfully care for the sick. This is a team concept of patient care that works well in the civilian world.

Now you enter the world of military medicine (also called George Orwell’s medical corpse). Now, instead of the title Dr. Doe, you are now Captain Doe. You will have Major, Lt Colonel, and Colonel nurses, PAs, and other assorted non-physician types in charge, telling you how to run your clinic. You see, the military only recognizes rank, not competency or skill. You will point out in vain to these bureaucrats that you are the board certified physician and, for the patient’s sake, all medical related decisions should be yours to make. Your pleas will fall on deaf or hostile ears – only in the military would nurses, PAs etc. wield so much power over physicians and have so much say in patient care. You do your best to provide the standard of care in such difficult circumstances but not without significant stress.

Another class of denizens with which you will have to deal are the former physicians who occupy the top floor offices. They don’t see patients anymore. They are career, lifers, and for the most part losers who can’t hack it any more (if they ever could). They sit on high, pouring over paperwork, looking at your fitness test, and try to bully/threaten their fellow practicing doctors about the latest bureaucratic rule or the box which was not checked on AF Form 119089832.e.3. They will berate you about attending the latest military training or your poor score on your fit test and then threaten you with an as sundry of punishments, including, Oh my God!, a bad letter in your FILE!!!

You will be appalled by the fact that, due to the severe shortage of physicians in the military, in too many instances nurses and PAs are primarily responsible for the care of patients – including the type of sick patients that made your expert internal medicine preceptors sweat. You will see bad outcomes – all preventable – due to this situation. You see, the military doesn’t care who sees/treats the patients, as long as someone does. I routinely get preliminary reports/opinions on chest xrays written by sergeants (i.e. high school graduates)!! In the real world this would be a criminal act – practicing without a license. However, the military has its own standards which would not be acceptable in the civilian world. They can get away with this because there is no supervision and, by law, military members cannot sue for malpractice.

You will be deployed to the middle east for long periods of time away from your family where, if you’re lucky, you can apply your skills to help the sick and wounded. Or, as happens way too often, you will be some Colonel’s or General’s lackey, arranging visits for other generals or dignitaries, getting coffee, or doing some other menial task better suited for a high school graduate.

Yes, you too can have all of this. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line. At least you can’t say you weren’t warned. I wish I could say the same.

For additional perspective, see www.medicalcorpse.com

For those of you who believe this is all about money, think again. I earn more money now than I ever have. However, for the reasons stated above, no amount of money could keep me in the military beyond my commitment.

Dr Doe, MD, Maj, MC, USAF, MIL, Def, Dum, Shoot, Me, Now
Board Certified physician

Thanks for taking the time to post this. It reinforces what many of us who have been there and done that tell people considering the HPSP. "Don't do it for the money". As you well know, the DOD gets all that money back from you by cramming it up your *** a nickle at a time.

I enjoyed my time in uniform, but I was an Infantryman and the BS tends to end on the line. I would loath to be part of the DOD paperwork machine chock full of REMFs and oxygen thieves that physicians have to deal with.

At any rate, I hate seeing newly minted undergrads taking the bait. There is no such thing as free money and once they realize that, they make for demotivated military physicians and soldiers deserve better.

 

[Dr.D-man]

First, I want to say good luck to all of you who have applied to medical school and congratulations to those who have been accepted. I registered on this site (please excuse my misspelling of Radiologist) to offer a friendly warning to those of you who will be my future colleagues in the medical profession.

For those who have been or will be accepted to medical school, you will need to find a way to pay for it. Whatever you do, do not accept the HPSP (military) scholarship. Beg, borrow, or steal but don’t join the military medical service. Like me and the vast majority of my fellow military physicians, by agreeing to join the military medical corps, you will be making the biggest professional mistake of your lives.

For those who don’t heed my warning, here is what you can expect:

After an arduous journey lasting over a decade (including undergrad, med school, and residency) you are now a well-trained physician, the expert in your field, compassionate, caring, and ready to alleviate the suffering of many and cure others. You have endured long hours studying, slaving on the medical/surgical wards, and enduring an incredible amount of stress. You have learned from the masters in your field and have passed the multitude of exams including the MCAT, 3 parts of the USMLE, and your specialty board exams. Now YOU are the expert. YOU have the training and experience to alleviate suffering and to cure disease. YOU are at the top of your profession. Nurses, PAs, and medical/surgical techs follow YOUR expert guidance to successfully care for the sick. This is a team concept of patient care that works well in the civilian world.

Now you enter the world of military medicine (also called George Orwell’s medical corpse). Now, instead of the title Dr. Doe, you are now Captain Doe. You will have Major, Lt Colonel, and Colonel nurses, PAs, and other assorted non-physician types in charge, telling you how to run your clinic. You see, the military only recognizes rank, not competency or skill. You will point out in vain to these bureaucrats that you are the board certified physician and, for the patient’s sake, all medical related decisions should be yours to make. Your pleas will fall on deaf or hostile ears – only in the military would nurses, PAs etc. wield so much power over physicians and have so much say in patient care. You do your best to provide the standard of care in such difficult circumstances but not without significant stress.

Another class of denizens with which you will have to deal are the former physicians who occupy the top floor offices. They don’t see patients anymore. They are career, lifers, and for the most part losers who can’t hack it any more (if they ever could). They sit on high, pouring over paperwork, looking at your fitness test, and try to bully/threaten their fellow practicing doctors about the latest bureaucratic rule or the box which was not checked on AF Form 119089832.e.3. They will berate you about attending the latest military training or your poor score on your fit test and then threaten you with an as sundry of punishments, including, Oh my God!, a bad letter in your FILE!!!

You will be appalled by the fact that, due to the severe shortage of physicians in the military, in too many instances nurses and PAs are primarily responsible for the care of patients – including the type of sick patients that made your expert internal medicine preceptors sweat. You will see bad outcomes – all preventable – due to this situation. You see, the military doesn’t care who sees/treats the patients, as long as someone does. I routinely get preliminary reports/opinions on chest xrays written by sergeants (i.e. high school graduates)!! In the real world this would be a criminal act – practicing without a license. However, the military has its own standards which would not be acceptable in the civilian world. They can get away with this because there is no supervision and, by law, military members cannot sue for malpractice.

You will be deployed to the middle east for long periods of time away from your family where, if you’re lucky, you can apply your skills to help the sick and wounded. Or, as happens way too often, you will be some Colonel’s or General’s lackey, arranging visits for other generals or dignitaries, getting coffee, or doing some other menial task better suited for a high school graduate.

Yes, you too can have all of this. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line. At least you can’t say you weren’t warned. I wish I could say the same.

For additional perspective, see www.medicalcorpse.com

For those of you who believe this is all about money, think again. I earn more money now than I ever have. However, for the reasons stated above, no amount of money could keep me in the military beyond my commitment.

Dr Doe, MD, Maj, MC, USAF, MIL, Def, Dum, Shoot, Me, Now
Board Certified physician

This is really quite sad. It is admirable that you are willing to share your insight and help prevent people from ending up in your position.

 

[TheMemoirist]

I'd just like to say thanks again. Like other posters here, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences. I had briefly considered the military scholarships, but I always unsure. Now that you've shared your thoughts and experiences, I know I was justified in having my reservations.

 

[Dmizrahi]

Thank you very much for posting this, I was considering a military scholarship and after reading that i've successfully deleted the email from my inbox.

Thanks again!

 

[Old Grunt]

Thank you very much for posting this, I was considering a military scholarship and after reading that i've successfully deleted the email from my inbox.

Thanks again!

You'll be deleting more e-mails. In fact, short of getting a restraining order, you'll be getting e-mails from recruiters for the forseeable future.

 

[175961]

haha.....i was just cruising around the net reading up on this method of paying for med school. i was a little...scared, for lack of a better word, about going into the military just for the money. needless to say, after reading this i'm convinced that i dont wanna do it just for that reason.

 

[dizzyorange]

Thanks for the info AFRadiologist. I had heard similiar things from my buddy in the Marines (he's not a doc but he works with one). It's quite unfortunate how our armed forces operate, but it's really nothing new. I'd imagine it was even worse 10 or 20 years ago. I too briefly considered one of those scholarships but the money is worth almost next to nothing when compared to time. If you do a long residency, you'll be in your early 30's by the time you start "practicing" fully. Every year counts. Imagine starting being "fully paid" in your late 30's instead of your early to mid 30's. The difference is huge in my opinion.

 

[Begaster]

Is there a way to volunteer (well, work, but non-contractually) for the army as a specialist without all this bureaucratic bull****?

 

[Menomena]

Yes, I even met with an AF recruiter about this program! Thank you for sharing your insight.

 

[DiverDoc86]

Thank you for posting this! ...very useful. I had considered taking the offer up, but was dissuaded by my parents and the fact that I want to be a doctor and nothing less because I want autonomy. (my mom is a nurse)

 

[Old Grunt]

Is there a way to volunteer (well, work, but non-contractually) for the army as a specialist without all this bureaucratic bull****?

You can always be a civilian employee of the DOD. Lot's of Docs do that. It's not a bad gig b/c I don't think you have much malpractice (if any insurance) if you treat soldiers (I am not 100% sure about that though), and always have the autonomy to leave.

 

[Begaster]

You can always be a civilian employee of the DOD. Lot's of Docs do that. It's not a bad gig b/c I don't think you have much malpractice (if any insurance) if you treat soldiers (I am not 100% sure about that though), and always have the autonomy to leave.

Would that include working in overseas combat zones? I don't know if I'll think the same way in the 10+ years it'll take me to become an attending, but I currently have this odd urge to spend a year or so treating front-line soldiers.

 

[Old Grunt]

Would that include working in overseas combat zones? I don't know if I'll think the same way in the 10+ years it'll take me to become an attending, but I currently have this odd urge to spend a year or so treating front-line soldiers.

I would suspect not. If you are not under the UCMJ, you can't be ordered to go anywhere. However, as always, you should look into that on your own. Don't take my word for it.

 

[armybound]

This is the type of stuff that makes my user name no longer applicable.

 

[Bacchus]

You'll be deleting more e-mails. In fact, short of getting a restraining order, you'll be getting e-mails from recruiters for the forseeable future.

You know what I told the recruiter that was contacting me? I respect those that have served and are currently serving. However, I do not and will not plan a life in the military. Please stop contacting me. After the second email with that reply I have been recruiter free.

Now that I think back on it, I did go to a presentation by a recruiter where I had to sign an attendance sheet so he could "get the food paid for." Do you think this was a ploy to weasel out contact info from my univ?

 

[hairlessmexican]

yeah military is not for mommy's boys.

 

[Bacchus]

The above account makes the military for no one. Essentially, you're being limited when you have full practice (civilian side) in your specialty. 8 years of hell -- you think people want to be limited?

 

[[pj]]

Now that I think back on it, I did go to a presentation by a recruiter where I had to sign an attendance sheet so he could "get the food paid for." Do you think this was a ploy to weasel out contact info from my univ?

Most likely.

I've had a recruiter call my house almost on an annual basis. He hasn't actually called recently, but it was pretty consistent for a while, even after I told him I wasn't interested.

 

[Bacchus]

Most likely.

I've had a recruiter call my house almost on an annual basis. He hasn't actually called recently, but it was pretty consistent for a while, even after I told him I wasn't interested.

My mom told them stop calling, he's in college and refused to give them my cell phone number (Thanks mom!).

 

[[pj]]

My mom told them stop calling, he's in college and refused to give them my cell phone number (Thanks mom!).

That's so sweet.

 

[hairlessmexican]

The above account makes the military for no one. Essentially, you're being limited when you have full practice (civilian side) in your specialty. 8 years of hell -- you think people want to be limited?

lol

 

[Old Grunt]

You know what I told the recruiter that was contacting me? I respect those that have served and are currently serving. However, I do not and will not plan a life in the military. Please stop contacting me. After the second email with that reply I have been recruiter free.

Now that I think back on it, I did go to a presentation by a recruiter where I had to sign an attendance sheet so he could "get the food paid for." Do you think this was a ploy to weasel out contact info from my univ?

Yes.

If you go to a State University, they might have access to your contact info due to some laws that were recently passed.

As I said before, there is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to the DOD.

 

[Old Grunt]

yeah military is not for mommy's boys.

The military is not for a lot of people, that doesn't make them bad people or sissies.

Where/when did you serve?

 

[Dmizrahi]

My mom told them stop calling, he's in college and refused to give them my cell phone number (Thanks mom!).

Thats funny, I'm pretty sure my dad told them I was dead...(not kidding)

 

[Yourmother]

Thanks for taking the time to post this. It reinforces what many of us who have been there and done that tell people considering the HPSP. "Don't do it for the money". As you well know, the DOD gets all that money back from you by cramming it up your *** a nickle at a time.

I enjoyed my time in uniform, but I was an Infantryman and the BS tends to end on the line. I would loath to be part of the DOD paperwork machine chock full of REMFs and oxygen thieves that physicians have to deal with.

At any rate, I hate seeing newly minted undergrads taking the bait. There is no such thing as free money and once they realize that, they make for demotivated military physicians and soldiers deserve better.

I had a blast in the Army.....as a 19 year old. Back then, I could take all the garbage they threw at me. I didn't know any better and just did what they said.

I can't imagine going back, being older and wiser.

I don't care if they threw me a 0-3 commission. They had better throw me a bigger bone.

 

[MaximusD]

First, I want to say good luck to all of you who have applied to medical school and congratulations to those who have been accepted. I registered on this site (please excuse my misspelling of Radiologist) to offer a friendly warning to those of you who will be my future colleagues in the medical profession.

For those who have been or will be accepted to medical school, you will need to find a way to pay for it. Whatever you do, do not accept the HPSP (military) scholarship. Beg, borrow, or steal but don't join the military medical service. Like me and the vast majority of my fellow military physicians, by agreeing to join the military medical corps, you will be making the biggest professional mistake of your lives.

For those who don't heed my warning, here is what you can expect:

After an arduous journey lasting over a decade (including undergrad, med school, and residency) you are now a well-trained physician, the expert in your field, compassionate, caring, and ready to alleviate the suffering of many and cure others. You have endured long hours studying, slaving on the medical/surgical wards, and enduring an incredible amount of stress. You have learned from the masters in your field and have passed the multitude of exams including the MCAT, 3 parts of the USMLE, and your specialty board exams. Now YOU are the expert. YOU have the training and experience to alleviate suffering and to cure disease. YOU are at the top of your profession. Nurses, PAs, and medical/surgical techs follow YOUR expert guidance to successfully care for the sick. This is a team concept of patient care that works well in the civilian world.

Now you enter the world of military medicine (also called George Orwell's medical corpse). Now, instead of the title Dr. Doe, you are now Captain Doe. You will have Major, Lt Colonel, and Colonel nurses, PAs, and other assorted non-physician types in charge, telling you how to run your clinic. You see, the military only recognizes rank, not competency or skill. You will point out in vain to these bureaucrats that you are the board certified physician and, for the patient's sake, all medical related decisions should be yours to make. Your pleas will fall on deaf or hostile ears – only in the military would nurses, PAs etc. wield so much power over physicians and have so much say in patient care. You do your best to provide the standard of care in such difficult circumstances but not without significant stress.

Another class of denizens with which you will have to deal are the former physicians who occupy the top floor offices. They don't see patients anymore. They are career, lifers, and for the most part losers who can't hack it any more (if they ever could). They sit on high, pouring over paperwork, looking at your fitness test, and try to bully/threaten their fellow practicing doctors about the latest bureaucratic rule or the box which was not checked on AF Form 119089832.e.3. They will berate you about attending the latest military training or your poor score on your fit test and then threaten you with an as sundry of punishments, including, Oh my God!, a bad letter in your FILE!!!

You will be appalled by the fact that, due to the severe shortage of physicians in the military, in too many instances nurses and PAs are primarily responsible for the care of patients – including the type of sick patients that made your expert internal medicine preceptors sweat. You will see bad outcomes – all preventable – due to this situation. You see, the military doesn't care who sees/treats the patients, as long as someone does. I routinely get preliminary reports/opinions on chest xrays written by sergeants (i.e. high school graduates)!! In the real world this would be a criminal act – practicing without a license. However, the military has its own standards which would not be acceptable in the civilian world. They can get away with this because there is no supervision and, by law, military members cannot sue for malpractice.

You will be deployed to the middle east for long periods of time away from your family where, if you're lucky, you can apply your skills to help the sick and wounded. Or, as happens way too often, you will be some Colonel's or General's lackey, arranging visits for other generals or dignitaries, getting coffee, or doing some other menial task better suited for a high school graduate.

Yes, you too can have all of this. All you have to do is sign on the dotted line. At least you can't say you weren't warned. I wish I could say the same.

For additional perspective, see www.medicalcorpse.com

For those of you who believe this is all about money, think again. I earn more money now than I ever have. However, for the reasons stated above, no amount of money could keep me in the military beyond my commitment.

Dr Doe, MD, Maj, MC, USAF, MIL, Def, Dum, Shoot, Me, Now
Board Certified physician

I'll take my chances.

 

[Piyush]

I dunno about the US, but I am guessing it should be same as Canada. I work in the medical unit right now, and find that things run quite well. A friend just finished his med school and things are looking good for him. The way medical units are set up are that the whole chain of command is medical personnel, right from the stretching lugging private to the CO who is usually a Lt. Colonel or Colonel. So, really, it should not matter that you have high ranking officers above you. Its true that there might be nurses and PAs who are higher ranks than a fresh MD graduate, but that is because those nureses and PAs graduated their classes a long time ago, and have worked up to those ranks. That is very much similar to the civilian world, where a fresh doc is not going to get to boss the whole hospital around, it just wont work that way. The experiences of the rest of the staff counts quite a bit as compared to a fresh MD grad. The chain of command is present no matter where you work. If you work in a hospital or clinic, the chances are fairly good that for your first few years of the career, there will be a chief of specialty that will be barking down you ears. As you get older, your reputation and autonomy will certainly grow. But thats true in the military too, because, you will go up in ranks. If you work private practice, then certainly you dont have a boss, but most likely, you wont have a large staff either, and you are open to a lot of legal actions.

The point being, dont join the military for the money, but join it to serve the country. The military is not for everyone, and if you are considering a military aid for your medical school, join up as a medic, medA, field medic or some other non-commissioned rank, or as a Lt, or 2Lt at some baseline commissioned rank, and check out the military that way. I think some of you will find more appreciation for the work, responsibility, discipline, and power of medical personnels in the military. You should keep in mind, that being an elite trade, the medical units dont have the same enforcement of discipline and forced respect as say an infantry or artillery unit. And think of it in military terms, that it takes about ten years for a new commission to get to captain, and you are going to start at that rank, and pay scale, and you would be climbing up the ranks faster than others as the medical chain of command tends to have a high turn over rate.

Hope that convinces someone to give the military a shot without signing up the rest of their lives to the military and then judging for themselves on how they fit in the military. Its best to start off with a non-commissioned rank and see how the military, and the medical units operate. I was apprehensive of joining the CF, but I have found it to be one of the best decisions I had made.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Piyush.

 

[MaximusD]

I dunno about the US, but I am guessing it should be same as Canada. I work in the medical unit right now, and find that things run quite well. A friend just finished his med school and things are looking good for him. The way medical units are set up are that the whole chain of command is medical personnel, right from the stretching lugging private to the CO who is usually a Lt. Colonel or Colonel. So, really, it should not matter that you have high ranking officers above you. Its true that there might be nurses and PAs who are higher ranks than a fresh MD graduate, but that is because those nureses and PAs graduated their classes a long time ago, and have worked up to those ranks. That is very much similar to the civilian world, where a fresh doc is not going to get to boss the whole hospital around, it just wont work that way. The experiences of the rest of the staff counts quite a bit as compared to a fresh MD grad. The chain of command is present no matter where you work. If you work in a hospital or clinic, the chances are fairly good that for your first few years of the career, there will be a chief of specialty that will be barking down you ears. As you get older, your reputation and autonomy will certainly grow. But thats true in the military too, because, you will go up in ranks. If you work private practice, then certainly you dont have a boss, but most likely, you wont have a large staff either, and you are open to a lot of legal actions.

The point being, dont join the military for the money, but join it to serve the country. The military is not for everyone, and if you are considering a military aid for your medical school, join up as a medic, medA, field medic or some other non-commissioned rank, or as a Lt, or 2Lt at some baseline commissioned rank, and check out the military that way. I think some of you will find more appreciation for the work, responsibility, discipline, and power of medical personnels in the military. You should keep in mind, that being an elite trade, the medical units dont have the same enforcement of discipline and forced respect as say an infantry or artillery unit. And think of it in military terms, that it takes about ten years for a new commission to get to captain, and you are going to start at that rank, and pay scale, and you would be climbing up the ranks faster than others as the medical chain of command tends to have a high turn over rate.

Hope that convinces someone to give the military a shot without signing up the rest of their lives to the military and then judging for themselves on how they fit in the military. Its best to start off with a non-commissioned rank and see how the military, and the medical units operate. I was apprehensive of joining the CF, but I have found it to be one of the best decisions I had made.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Piyush.

This post was useful...

However, the reality is that as a medical student or as a premed going into medical school, you have no choice but to become a commissioned officer through the HPSP/USUHS route.

I think that the major clash is that most individuals going into medicine develop a strong sense of self-worth that your typical 18-19 y/o recruit doesn't have. Coming in at this level makes it difficult to take orders for many beginning physicians who believe that they have ALREADY sacrificed a great deal to get to where they are.

I think the problem is that the military recruiters paint a pretty picture to recruit you and fill their quota and then physicians are severely let-down when they see the reality... that military medicine is just as haphazard and messed-up as civilian life with significantly less pay and limited autonomy. My recruiter has done an excellent job of telling me the negatives of the military, so I think I am going to be more acclimated from the get-go. Time will tell.

That said, I think it is extremely unwise when the OP paints a picture of an undermanned physician corps but then proceeds to undermine its future on this site. I can see painting a more accurate picture so that people can make better decisions, but bitching and complaining and making near-derogatory blanket statements is irresponsible, IMO.

 

[patzan]

I'll take my chances.

keep in mind, also, that joining the military does not make financial sense either.

By joining the military, I could have saved myself the $200K I have in debt. After residency, say you have a 4 year commitment. Perhaps the OP could say better, but I doubt that the military salary is competitive with private practice and that it would be >$50K lower for each of the 4 years. For a radiologist, where one can easily make $400K/yr starting out, you can make the difference up very quickly if you have the patience to carry some debt.

 

[BigRedder]

keep in mind, also, that joining the military does not make financial sense either.

By joining the military, I could have saved myself the $200K I have in debt. After residency, say you have a 4 year commitment. Perhaps the OP could say better, but I doubt that the military salary is competitive with private practice and that it would be >$50K lower for each of the 4 years. For a radiologist, where one can easily make $400K/yr starting out, you can make the difference up very quickly if you have the patience to carry some debt.

That's not entirely fair, considering that $200K in debt adds up to a whole lot more with interest. Also, not everyone in medicine makes $400K starting out. Most make less than $200K, and many make less than $150K.

 

[patzan]

That's not entirely fair, considering that $200K in debt adds up to a whole lot more with interest. Also, not everyone in medicine makes $400K starting out. Most make less than $200K, and many make less than $150K.

as a radiologist, you can pay that off in a single year.

I think to make the argument I'm going for, I'd need to know more about the income gap, but I suspect it's significant in either case.

 

[SgtDoc]

Check this out...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=493136

My girlfriend made a spreadsheet comparing 3 different military routes...the "guard" would be similar to not doing the military at all, except you would miss out on pay in med school and $50k tuition payoff.