Just got back from the recruiter

[halethsonofhama]

So I got back from the recruiter and he told me a few things that contradicted what I've heard on this forum. Even when I told him I have heard otherwise he insisted that he was right.

--- The the main issue was in regards to matching.

According to people here on SDN, I would only rank military residencies while an MS4. If I don't get in, then I would do a transitory year. A year later I would reapply for military residencies OR I could appeal to get a civilian residency (but this is rare).

According to the Recruiter, I would apply to both civilian residencies and Military residencies as an MS4. If I match to a military residency, I have to take it. If not, I would be free to take a civilian residency if accepted. If I don't get in anywhere I would have to go through a transitory year (which he described as just an internship). I would then repeat the process next year.

--- Another issue dealt with matching stats

SDN consensus states that residencies choose people with prior military experience, ROTC or from USHS over students who only are involved in the HPSP. Therefore the high matching percentage I see on the GME website is not what it actually. It would be much lower for me since I am just in the HPSP.

The Recruiter says that this is not true. Even when I pushed him he insisted the above was false.


Usually I would just attribute this to this guy being a lying recruiter..... buuuut he didn't seem too pushy and actually seemed like he was trying to give me the best information he could.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[backrow]

According to people here on SDN, I would only rank military residencies while an MS4. If I don't get in, then I would do a transitory year. A year later I would reapply for military residencies OR I could appeal to get a civilian residency (but this is rare).

Not sure what gave you this idea. As an HPSP applying to residencies you would apply to the military match with one of your choices being 'civilian deferment.' If you were selected "deferred" in the military match then you would continue your civilian applications. If not, then you would have matched in one of the military programs.

SDN consensus states that residencies choose people with prior military experience, ROTC or from USHS over students who only are involved in the HPSP. Therefore the high matching percentage I see on the GME website is not what it actually. It would be much lower for me since I am just in the HPSP.

Again, not necessarily true. Those with prior experience (not to include ROTC/service academy/USUHS) do get bonus points on their application, so yes, those people would have a slight advantage. Otherwise people are on a pretty level playing field except for the possibly slight advantage that USUHS people spend all their time in military hospitals and MAY have a bit more time to spend with their potential program as compared to someone from a civilian school who can only rotate a few times.

 

[DocArmy]

For issue number 1: you are both somewhat correct. For example purposes, we'll use Neurology. Say you apply to all of the AF Neurology programs, but don't match into one of them. Meanwhile, the AF decides it will need 10 more Neurologists than it has residency slots for. You will be notified that you have been selected for a civilian deferral for Neurology. At that point, you would take your civilian match Neuro spot and be on your way.

This means that, to hedge your bets, you need to apply to both the military and civilian matches. You won't have time to apply after the military match is over with and you don't want to scramble. (All of the above happened to an MSIV at my school this year)

If you don't get in to either, you could choose a different specialty that has openings, or you would do a transition year and either reapply and join the previous year's class, or go on to Flight Surgeon GMO, after which you could reapply or do your time and go civilian.

If you apply and don't match military AND they don't need any extras, then you can change specialties to an open slot, or do a GMO and reapply/finish your time.

Issue number 2: The Air Force does the match via a board selection, whereas the Army does a computerized match. In the Army, you rank each of the hospitals for your chosen field and they rank all of their applicants and a computer shoots out the match list. If you don't match, and they don't need any extras (much higher likelihood in the Army) then you can choose a specialty with an open slot, do GMO and reapply or GMO and get out. But your match is determined by the hospital's match list, not by a selection board,

In the Air Force(as I understand it) your file goes before a selection board that uses a point system to fill slots. 10 possible points for an HPSP student (2-first 2 years of school/top of class, etc; 3 for boards and dean's letter, I think; and 5 for your clerkship years and audition rotation). You can present a poster for an extra point or publish a research paper for 1 or 2. Prior service or a GMO is also worth points. So, you can see how it would make it easier for a prior service person to edge out an HPSP applicant. I'm sure the board is allowed their discretion and the points may just get you in the pool, but I don't know much more than the above.


Hope that helps. The Army information was gleaned from a talk from Dr. Buising, the Army GME director. So it should be fairly accurate. The Air Force information has come from other student's dealings and what I've been told by upperclassmen.

 

[backrow]

Issue number 2: The Air Force does the match via a board selection, whereas the Army does a computerized match. In the Army, you rank each of the hospitals for your chosen field and they rank all of their applicants and a computer shoots out the match list. If you don't match, and they don't need any extras (much higher likelihood in the Army) then you can choose a specialty with an open slot, do GMO and reapply or GMO and get out. But your match is determined by the hospital's match list, not by a selection board,

In the Air Force(as I understand it) your file goes before a selection board that uses a point system to fill slots. 10 possible points for an HPSP student (2-first 2 years of school/top of class, etc; 3 for boards and dean's letter, I think; and 5 for your clerkship years and audition rotation). You can present a poster for an extra point or publish a research paper for 1 or 2. Prior service or a GMO is also worth points. So, you can see how it would make it easier for a prior service person to edge out an HPSP applicant. I'm sure the board is allowed their discretion and the points may just get you in the pool, but I don't know much more than the above.


Hope that helps. The Army information was gleaned from a talk from Dr. Buising, the Army GME director. So it should be fairly accurate. The Air Force information has come from other student's dealings and what I've been told by upperclassmen.

Not entirely accurate. All of the services do their selections the exact same way: at the Joint Service Graduate Medical Education Selection Board (JSGMESB) (or some collection of those names, ha). For the intern match they have made some recent (past 3yrs or so) changes that make it a bit more like the real "match", but your applications are still scored the same was as before.

The actual scoring sheet has been linked on here before, but I'm too lazy to look at it. The scoring (as best my memory serves me is as follows)
0-2: 1st 2yrs and Step 1
0-3: 3rd/4th year and Step 2
0-5: Intern year (max of 3 I believe for a current intern) - doesn't apply to intern match
0-5: GMO tour - again doesn't apply to intern match
0-5: Potential for Success (who knows what this really means)
BONUS POINTS
0-2: Prior active duty service
0-4: Research (1 pt for poster, up to 4 for multiple peer reviewed articles)

Each application is scored by a member from each of the services.

 

[AF M4]

So I got back from the recruiter and he told me a few things that contradicted what I've heard on this forum. Even when I told him I have heard otherwise he insisted that he was right.

--- The the main issue was in regards to matching.

According to people here on SDN, I would only rank military residencies while an MS4. If I don't get in, then I would do a transitory year. A year later I would reapply for military residencies OR I could appeal to get a civilian residency (but this is rare).

According to the Recruiter, I would apply to both civilian residencies and Military residencies as an MS4. If I match to a military residency, I have to take it. If not, I would be free to take a civilian residency if accepted. If I don't get in anywhere I would have to go through a transitory year (which he described as just an internship). I would then repeat the process next year.

--- Another issue dealt with matching stats

SDN consensus states that residencies choose people with prior military experience, ROTC or from USHS over students who only are involved in the HPSP. Therefore the high matching percentage I see on the GME website is not what it actually. It would be much lower for me since I am just in the HPSP.

The Recruiter says that this is not true. Even when I pushed him he insisted the above was false.


Usually I would just attribute this to this guy being a lying recruiter..... buuuut he didn't seem too pushy and actually seemed like he was trying to give me the best information he could.

Your gut feeling is likely correct: your specific recruiter may well be a nice guy trying to give you the best information he can to help you make a decision.

So what.

Look, you're doing a very wise thing here, trying to weigh the odds of matching into particular specialties. But - to use an example from current events here - even the most carefully set up applecart can be overturned by one nutcase dictator who one day decides that his oatmeal ain't cooked right and starts offing civilians. A month ago, no one knew that we would be sending Tomahawks into Libya today, and that includes the President who gives the orders to launch the missiles.

The point is, unexpected things can and will happen. If going to residency on time is of central importance to you, then the HPSP scholarship is not a good choice. When you sign on the dotted line, you are putting your career into your service branch's hands, and your service branch will do what it believes is best for that service, not for your career. Think very carefully on how stressful that will be for you both now and in the future.

Good luck.

 

[Roberie]

With regard to prior service points and USUHS vs. HPSP students, I seem to recall reading on the scoring sheet that USUHS students are given no extra points (unless, of course, they served in the military prior to attending USUHS). As mentioned, i realize being a USUHS student might bestow other advantages.

 

[Easy C]

One the Military Match Happens much earlier than the civilian match so you can't 'technically' apply to both matches at the same time because the Military Matches comes out in November or December and the civilian Match a few months later. So you could be applying to both but the Military match happens first.

Backrow, I dont know where you were told that for one of your residency choices you could put civilian deferment? I think you can only do this with EM, but for all others a civilian deferment request would need to be submitted after having not matched and put into a transitional year. (See Page 7 in pdf found here for residency locations, http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=792439, post #15)

Now the points system everyone likes to point out. The points system is not used for PGY-1. For those residencies that are categorical: IM, EM, Peds, FM ect., when you match you are granted an intern year and go straight into residency, its part of the GME contract of taking that spot. For those that are non-categorical, you get an intern year in that specialty but for PGY-2 you then fight for the residency spots using the points system. The points system scoring guide can be found in this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=782788

And more about which residencies need to apply to PGY-2 using the points system and those that dont can be found here: http://www.mods.army.mil/medicaleducation/userlogon/PublicFactSheet_2005.htm

Wheew, sorry just trying to cross reference previous posts and resources. And I am also only reffering to the Army.

I also recommend: http://www.militarygme.org/index.html
for more general information about residency spots and locations.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

One the Military Match Happens much earlier than the civilian match so you can't 'technically' apply to both matches at the same time because the Military Matches comes out in November or December and the civilian Match a few months later. So you could be applying to both but the Military match happens first.

Backrow, I dont know where you were told that for one of your residency choices you could put civilian deferment? I think you can only do this with EM, but for all others a civilian deferment request would need to be submitted after having not matched and put into a transitional year. (See Page 7 in pdf found here for residency locations, http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=792439, post #15)

Now the points system everyone likes to point out. The points system is not used for PGY-1. For those residencies that are categorical: IM, EM, Peds, FM ect., when you match you are granted an intern year and go straight into residency, its part of the GME contract of taking that spot. For those that are non-categorical, you get an intern year in that specialty but for PGY-2 you then fight for the residency spots using the points system. The points system scoring guide can be found in this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=782788

And more about which residencies need to apply to PGY-2 using the points system and those that dont can be found here: http://www.mods.army.mil/medicaleducation/userlogon/PublicFactSheet_2005.htm

Wheew, sorry just trying to cross reference previous posts and resources. And I am also only reffering to the Army.

I also recommend: http://www.militarygme.org/index.html
for more general information about residency spots and locations.

Just think this should be highlighted