MD Just got my 1st M3 evaluation - how damaging is it?

[VacheronConstantin]

I just finished my first 4 weeks of my third year - it was on a Surgical Oncology rotation. I took advice from my buddy M4s to take a lot of initiative, asks to do stuff in the OR, show eagerness to learn, and to take initiative on rounds with regards to presenting patients...etc. So I just received my evaluation, some were 3s and some were 4s on a 5 point scale (which was also what my classmate got)....with the following comment that will go on my MSPE...

"Vacheron really cared about patient care and doing procedures in the OR. He demonstrated enthusiasm, that at times, was overbearing".

With some self-reflection, my behavior was probably too aggressive in the OR and interrupted my attendings and slowed them down. I own up to it. In the future, I will seek feedback early and often, and also ask what is expected of me from the beginning with each attending. So 2 questions:

1) How damaging is this "overbearing" comment on my MSPE? The student coordinator has confirmed with me that it cannot be removed unless I go through an appeal process.

2) Is this worth bugging my clerkship director and try to appeal it?

My final grade was a Pass (roughly 50% of students get that)

Thank you!

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[Black Coffee 24/7]

ROFL Chill out, bro

It's your first rotation. Recalibrate and tone down on your gunning atmosphere. Nobody likes to be w/ a gunner.

However, the last comment does mean something that you can reflect on. It basically says that you lack social awareness and consideration for others.

 

[VacheronConstantin]

ROFL Chill out, bro

It's your first rotation. Recalibrate and tone down on your gunning atmosphere. Nobody likes to be w/ a gunner.

However, the last comment does mean something that you can reflect on. It basically says that you lack social awareness and consideration for others.

Yes I realize that now and I own up to it. But I can't go back in time....

So you don't think this is something I need to mention on my personal statement as a learning experience or anything?

 

[Gorne]

Yes I realize that now and I own up to it. But I can't go back in time....

So you don't think this is something I need to mention on my personal statement as a learning experience or anything?

No. Just chill out and stop annoying people.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Yes I realize that now and I own up to it. But I can't go back in time....

So you don't think this is something I need to mention on my personal statement as a learning experience or anything?

Feel free to mention it on your personal statement, and get auto rejected from all programs

Are you expecting all 5's and crap on your first clinical rotation?

Embrace the criticisms and self-improve yourself.

 

[VacheronConstantin]

Feel free to mention it on your personal statement, and get auto rejected from all programs

Are you expecting all 5's and crap on your first clinical rotation?

Embrace the criticisms and self-improve yourself.

I do own up to it. I am just asking how bad it will look on my MSPE since it means I am not a good team player.

 

[UnoMas]

I just finished my first 4 weeks of my third year - it was on a Surgical Oncology rotation. I took advice from my buddy M4s to take a lot of initiative, asks to do stuff in the OR, show eagerness to learn, and to take initiative on rounds with regards to presenting patients...etc. So I just received my evaluation, some were 3s and some were 4s on a 5 point scale (which was also what my classmate got)....with the following comment that will go on my MSPE...

"Vacheron really cared about patient care and doing procedures in the OR. He demonstrated enthusiasm, that at times, was overbearing".

With some self-reflection, my behavior was probably too aggressive in the OR and interrupted my attendings and slowed them down. I own up to it. In the future, I will seek feedback early and often, and also ask what is expected of me from the beginning with each attending. So 2 questions:

1) How damaging is this "overbearing" comment on my MSPE? The student coordinator has confirmed with me that it cannot be removed unless I go through an appeal process.

2) Is this worth bugging my clerkship director and try to appeal it?

My final grade was a Pass (roughly 50% of students get that)

Thank you!

I doubt programs will not interview you because of this. If get asked during interview, just spin it around into a positive vibe 'I just finally got to see Clinical Medicine after 6 weeks of Step studying, I was overexicted. It was my first rotation ever!!!' they laugh it off, you laugh it off. No harms done.

If you keep getting the same comment, that's a whole different story tho...

 

[Apothecary Aquinas]

It's your first rotation. Recalibrate and tone down on your gunning atmosphere. Nobody likes to be w/ a gunner.

He basically said you are a gunner and he doesn't like gunners.

Kind of a side note here but since when does "gunner" simply mean overly enthusiastic/ambitious? Every definition I've seen, or can find for that matter, equates a gunner as someone who will essentially step on others to get ahead/throw them under the bus and who shows little care for the well being of his/her peers while also being overly ambitious to a fault. It's possible to be enthusiastic without being malignant and malicious to those around you. Annoying attendings/residents by "trying too hard" is hardly gunner behavior.

I just feel like there's been this massive increase in people dropping "GUNNER!" every time anyone shows any inclination of trying a little harder than everyone else. It's a bit disheartening, if I'm being honest, that even in professional school people are still so eager to throw around labels with negative connotations at those who they believe are "doing too much" or "studying too much", etc.

I've got mad respect for those who do their absolute best and really grind to come out ahead of the pack. Nothing gunner about wanting to be above average or even great for that matter.

EDIT: not necessarily totally directed at you guys. Just a trend that's been annoying me lately.

 

[VacheronConstantin]

Kind of a side note here but since when does "gunner" simply mean overly enthusiastic/ambitious? Every definition I've seen, or can find for that matter, equates a gunner as someone who will essentially step on others to get ahead/throw them under the bus and who shows little care for the well being of his/her peers while also being overly ambitious to a fault. It's possible to be enthusiastic without being malignant and malicious to those around you. Annoying attendings/residents by "trying too hard" is hardly gunner behavior.

I just feel like there's been this massive increase in people dropping "GUNNER!" every time anyone shows any inclination of trying a little harder than everyone else. It's a bit disheartening, if I'm being honest, that even in professional school people are still so eager to throw around labels with negative connotations at those who they believe are "doing too much" or "studying too much", etc.

I've got mad respect for those who do their absolute best and really grind to come out ahead of the pack. Nothing gunner about wanting to be above average or even great for that matter.

EDIT: not necessarily totally directed at you guys. Just a trend that's been annoying me lately.

My case - I did step on the toes of the residents. I basically wanted to be 1st assist, when it was their job. The damage is already done. I am just worried about this negative label on my MSPE. Do you think it will raise a red flag when interviewers review it?

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Kind of a side note here but since when does "gunner" simply mean overly enthusiastic/ambitious? Every definition I've seen, or can find for that matter, equates a gunner as someone who will essentially step on others to get ahead/throw them under the bus and who shows little care for the well being of his/her peers while also being overly ambitious to a fault. It's possible to be enthusiastic without being malignant and malicious to those around you. Annoying attendings/residents by "trying too hard" is hardly gunner behavior.

I just feel like there's been this massive increase in people dropping "GUNNER!" every time anyone shows any inclination of trying a little harder than everyone else. It's a bit disheartening, if I'm being honest, that even in professional school people are still so eager to throw around labels with negative connotations at those who they believe are "doing too much" or "studying too much", etc.

I've got mad respect for those who do their absolute best and really grind to come out ahead of the pack. Nothing gunner about wanting to be above average or even great for that matter.

EDIT: not necessarily totally directed at you guys. Just a trend that's been annoying me lately.

Enthusiasm doesn't equal gunning. Being a d-bag gunning is a lack of consideration for others. See OP's testimony of pushing residents aside to be first assist. ROFL

I knew it was something to that end.

Most gunners in med school lack social awareness and consideration for others.

For example, there are two ways to demonstrate enthusiasms - one way can be construed as gunning while the other way is considerate as enthusiasm.

Let's say that the attending just finished w/ the pt and asked the team to change the dressing. You're with the resident right now. Gunning is telling the attending "Hey, I got it. So-So resident can relax." Wrong move, here.

Enthusiasm and consideration for others are acted in this way: "That's sound fun. I'll just tag along So-So resident and see what I can learn." Two dressings needed to be done. Observe the resident changing the first dressing. "Hey, So-So resident. Do you mind if I change the second dressing, so you can finish the SOAP note on EPIC?"

Words will get back to the attending from the resident that this person is FREAKING AWESOME!

Do you see the subtle difference?

 

[Apothecary Aquinas]

My case - I did step on the toes of the residents. I basically wanted to be 1st assist, when it was their job. The damage is already done. I am just worried about this negative label on my MSPE. Do you think it will raise a red flag when interviewers review it?

I still stand by my original comment given the previous context, however, had I had this info before I probably would have felt differently. That being said, as an MS1 I'm not exactly the person that could give you any real insight to your fears. However, as a third party looking in I'd have to guess you'll be fine. The comment the physician left wasn't that bad and it's your first rotation. If I were in your shoes I'd do my best to correct my behavior and do better next time. One pass isn't going to raise eyebrows anywhere... at least from my limited perspective. Good luck!

 

[Goro]

I do own up to it. I am just asking how bad it will look on my MSPE since it means I am not a good team player.

That's not what it means.

o·ver·bear·ing
ˌōvərˈberiNG/
adjective

1. unpleasantly or arrogantly domineering.
   "his overbearing, sometimes ruthless desire to succeed"
   synonyms: domineering, dominating, autocratic, tyrannical, despotic, oppressive, high-handed, bullying;
   informalbossy
   "his overbearing wife"

 

[Apothecary Aquinas]

Enthusiasm doesn't equal gunning. Being a d-bag gunning is a lack of consideration for others. See OP's testimony of pushing residents aside to be first assist. ROFL

I knew it was something to that end.

Most gunners in med school lack social awareness and consideration for others.

For example, there are two ways to demonstrate enthusiasms - one way can be construed as gunning while the other way is considerate as enthusiasm.

Let's say that the attending just finished w/ the pt and asked the team to change the dressing. You're with the resident right now. Gunning is telling the attending "Hey, I got it. So-So resident can relax." Wrong move, here.

Enthusiasm and consideration for others is acted in this way: "That's sound fun. I'll just tag along So-So resident and see what I can learn." Two dressings needed to be done. Observe the resident changing the first dressing. "Hey, So-So resident. Do you mind if I change the second dressing, so you can finish the SOAP note on EPIC?"

Words will get back to the attending from the resident that this person is FREAKING AWESOME!

Do you see the subtle difference?

No, I totally agree with you that not considering others and stepping on feet to get what you want would probably make someone a gunner. And I did see OP's update, which yah, might have made him a gunner in that situation/rotation. We agree on that.

What I was referring to though in my original post was 'pre-update'. Given OP's original post which stated "...take a lot of initiative, asks to do stuff in the OR, show eagerness to learn, and to take initiative on rounds with regards to presenting patients", there's nothing in that to imply he was 'gunning' in the sense of being a d-bag to others or drastically overstepping boundaries. That's all I meant.

But again, I was speaking a little more general too. I can't count how many times people have been called a gunner simply because they say they're shooting for a 260+ on STEP1, want to start research early, etc. etc. So I'm probably projecting a little of that into my response as well.

 

[GoldenFish]

I just finished my first 4 weeks of my third year - it was on a Surgical Oncology rotation. I took advice from my buddy M4s to take a lot of initiative, asks to do stuff in the OR, show eagerness to learn, and to take initiative on rounds with regards to presenting patients...etc. So I just received my evaluation, some were 3s and some were 4s on a 5 point scale (which was also what my classmate got)....with the following comment that will go on my MSPE...

"Vacheron really cared about patient care and doing procedures in the OR. He demonstrated enthusiasm, that at times, was overbearing".

With some self-reflection, my behavior was probably too aggressive in the OR and interrupted my attendings and slowed them down. I own up to it. In the future, I will seek feedback early and often, and also ask what is expected of me from the beginning with each attending. So 2 questions:

1) How damaging is this "overbearing" comment on my MSPE? The student coordinator has confirmed with me that it cannot be removed unless I go through an appeal process.

2) Is this worth bugging my clerkship director and try to appeal it?

My final grade was a Pass (roughly 50% of students get that)

Thank you!

1) It can be hard to know how to behave on your first rotation, especially one where you know you need to be proactive and take initiative, like surgery. It's understandable in my book to come off as overbearing at first, even if that's not how you usually are. Just re-calibrate. Honestly, just be yourself, but at the same time act interested, engaged, don't skirt on any learning opportunities (eg you can guys can go, it's getting late, but were about to go see this patient in the ED) and you'll do fine.

This might not even make it in to your final MSPE depending on how they formulate it. Take it as a blessing to get this feedback so early on.

2) No, absolutely not. Your evaluator was almost certainly right. Lol.

 

[VacheronConstantin]

1) It can be hard to know how to behave on your first rotation, especially one where you know you need to be proactive and take initiative, like surgery. It's understandable in my book to come off as overbearing at first, even if that's not how you usually are. Just re-calibrate. Honestly, just be yourself, but at the same time act interested, engaged, don't skirt on any learning opportunities (eg you can guys can go, it's getting late, but were about to go see this patient in the ED) and you'll do fine.

This might not even make it in to your final MSPE depending on how they formulate it. Take it as a blessing to get this feedback so early on.

2) No, absolutely not. Your evaluator was almost certainly right. Lol.

I asked the Dean's office - and the comment for sure go on there. The Q is how damaging is it?!?! I am just so depressed that my M3 is off to a bad start.

 

[a5ie5lavida]

Are you even reading what people are saying to you?

 

[ciestar]

Granted I am also an MS3 finishing my first rotation, but, I think this is less damaging than you’ve convinced yourself. THANKFULLY it is your first rotation and it is an adjustment. You now know better, but you are in trouble if this were to happen again. Definitely seek out feedback throughout your next rotation.

 

[IMreshopeful]

I asked the Dean's office - and the comment for sure go on there. The Q is how damaging is it?!?! I am just so depressed that my M3 is off to a bad start.

Your evaluation was not that bad
You need to fix the mistakes you made going forward
Read what people are actually telling you

 

[UnoMas]

You are done for, get ready for FM in rural Alaska titrating metformin and hctz for artic seals and polar bears


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[DocWinter]

My god man, stop it already. Stop reaching out to your school, stop over analyzing the comment, stop worrying about your matching future with a generally positive and constructive feedback on your eval.

It’s becoming.... what’s the word...

 

[ortnakas]

This is pretty mild as far as negative comments go. I wouldn’t add emphasis to it on your application— it’s not a big enough red flag to warrant a mention on your personal statement— but I would do some self-reflection to make sure you don’t keep making the same mistakes.

 

[evilbooyaa]

My god man, stop it already. Stop reaching out to your school, stop over analyzing the comment, stop worrying about your matching future with a generally positive and constructive feedback on your eval.

It’s becoming.... what’s the word...

Overbearing?

OP - If this happens once it's not a big deal. Nobody is going to judge you for first rotation overexcitedness. Hopefully you've learned your lesson and will stop doing this in future rotations. A MS3 who kicked residents out of the case so he/she could first-assist. That's classic. I literally have never heard that before. I'm surprised you passed without more negative comments with some actions like that lmao.

If all of your rotations mention that you're overbearing, then that's bad. If just one does, then that's OK. Stop panicking. Stop reaching out to your school for sure - nobody wants to be labeled as the annoying PITA.

 

[BarcaBest23]

You were trying to first assist over residents? Not enough initiative, def should have taken the knife from the attending and shown them how its done. Surely that would have gotten you honors

 

[UnoMas]

You were trying to first assist over residents? Not enough initiative, def should have taken the knife from the attending and shown them how its done. Surely that would have gotten you honors

If I ever tried to steal first assists from my residents, especially the PGY2 and 3, they'll be first-assisting in my Rectal Reconstruction later that same day. The balls on this guy, gotta give him that. Kudos to his residents for being so frigging nice!!

 

[MSTP18]

My case - I did step on the toes of the residents. I basically wanted to be 1st assist, when it was their job. The damage is already done. I am just worried about this negative label on my MSPE. Do you think it will raise a red flag when interviewers review it?

Asking to be 1st assist on your first clerkship of MS3 is bananas. Did you actually think anyone would be ok with that? If that's indicative of what you were doing then I think you actually got a really generous eval.

 

[Moose A Moose]

Lmao. I wish more attendings put people like you in their place. You have no idea how obnoxious your behavior is to your fellow rotating medical students as well.

Brush yourself off. You’ll be fine.

Also: most MPSEs will only show positive comments.

 

[Oso]

I don’t know what’s worse - working with obnoxious people or hearing obnoxious people complaining about how they were called out for being obnoxious.

There have been some really annoying threads by brand new m3’s recently... may god help us all

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You must have seriously pissed this guy off for him to write that on the MSPE. I've never heard of anyone getting a comment like this even when they did poorly. I have no idea how it will impact you though

 

[Lnsean]

My case - I did step on the toes of the residents. I basically wanted to be 1st assist, when it was their job. The damage is already done. I am just worried about this negative label on my MSPE. Do you think it will raise a red flag when interviewers review it?

It's your first one...you get kind a a freebie. Now if the rest of your rotations and evals have similar tones and feedback then there would be serious red flags for PDs. Tone it down a bit. There are ways to look good without making others look bad. It's distasteful and it will show.

 

[Kgizzle]

Kind of a side note here but since when does "gunner" simply mean overly enthusiastic/ambitious? Every definition I've seen, or can find for that matter, equates a gunner as someone who will essentially step on others to get ahead/throw them under the bus and who shows little care for the well being of his/her peers while also being overly ambitious to a fault. It's possible to be enthusiastic without being malignant and malicious to those around you. Annoying attendings/residents by "trying too hard" is hardly gunner behavior.

I just feel like there's been this massive increase in people dropping "GUNNER!" every time anyone shows any inclination of trying a little harder than everyone else. It's a bit disheartening, if I'm being honest, that even in professional school people are still so eager to throw around labels with negative connotations at those who they believe are "doing too much" or "studying too much", etc.

I've got mad respect for those who do their absolute best and really grind to come out ahead of the pack. Nothing gunner about wanting to be above average or even great for that matter.

EDIT: not necessarily totally directed at you guys. Just a trend that's been annoying me lately.

Spoken like a true gunner

 

[mvenus929]

I don’t know what’s worse - working with obnoxious people or hearing obnoxious people complaining about how they were called out for being obnoxious.

There have been some really annoying threads by brand new m3’s recently... may god help us all

We got a lovely talk about learner mistreatment during orientation. Basically, pimping isn’t allowed, because asking questions of students can be seen as embarrassing and humiliating. Started seeing it in my interns last year too—this new generation is going to be interesting.

 

[UnoMas]

We got a lovely talk about learner mistreatment during orientation. Basically, pimping isn’t allowed, because asking questions of students can be seen as embarrassing and humiliating. Started seeing it in my interns last year too—this new generation is going to be interesting.

Well that sucks, I generally tend to dislike the rotations that I don't get asked anything. How else do I test my knowledge? How do I know what's important and what's not? It was embarrassing at first but once I know that everyone on the team kinda expects me to know nothing, I have nothing to lose. These pimping sessions are what I look forward to everyday showing up to the hospital.
These snowflakes need to grow thicker skin. I don't really care if you treat me like a pest but please teach me something.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Well that sucks, I generally tend to dislike the rotations that I don't get asked anything. How else do I test my knowledge? How do I know what's important and what's not? It was embarrassing at first but once I know that everyone on the team kinda expects me to know nothing, I have nothing to lose. These pimping sessions are what I look forward to everyday showing up to the hospital.
These snowflakes need to grow thicker skin. I don't really care if you treat me like a pest but please teach me something.

I get anxious when I get pimped due to my nature of trying to be perfect. But, honestly, I need to be told and tested by someone about the common stuff that I need to look for in clinical medicine in certain rotations.

 

[UnoMas]

I get anxious when I get pimped due to my nature of trying to be perfect. But, honestly, I need to be told and tested by someone about the common stuff that I need to look for in clinical medicine in certain rotations.

I used to be like that but think about it, if you already have all the answers, the attendings and residents might as well hand you the pager and go take a nap. Don't be just make sure you learn it the first time and don't say the wrong thing twice

 

[Oso]

We got a lovely talk about learner mistreatment during orientation. Basically, pimping isn’t allowed, because asking questions of students can be seen as embarrassing and humiliating. Started seeing it in my interns last year too—this new generation is going to be interesting.

Wut th fuq

 

[URHere]

I agree with everyone else. You made some mistakes with how you acted on that clerkship, but that single comment isn't going to have much of an impact on you, assuming that you can change your behavior (If you have similar comments from multiple clerkships, that would be an issue).

One thing I recommend is sitting down with your senior resident at the beginning of a rotation and asking them about expectations. Things like "how many patients do you think I should carry? What kind of things can I help you do during the day (calling consults, dressing changes, etc)? Are there any specific things you don't want me doing at my level of training?" If they mention doing something you have never done before just ask if you can observe one with them first. This gives you an idea of how you can be most helpful and it shows your senior that you can listen to what they want, and then step into that role.

 

[mistafab]

Yah bra - the eval isn’t that damaging. The behavior is.

Fix the behavior now and you’ll be good to go!

 

[DBV]

I just finished my first 4 weeks of my third year - it was on a Surgical Oncology rotation. I took advice from my buddy M4s to take a lot of initiative, asks to do stuff in the OR, show eagerness to learn, and to take initiative on rounds with regards to presenting patients...etc. So I just received my evaluation, some were 3s and some were 4s on a 5 point scale (which was also what my classmate got)....with the following comment that will go on my MSPE...

"Vacheron really cared about patient care and doing procedures in the OR. He demonstrated enthusiasm, that at times, was overbearing".

With some self-reflection, my behavior was probably too aggressive in the OR and interrupted my attendings and slowed them down. I own up to it. In the future, I will seek feedback early and often, and also ask what is expected of me from the beginning with each attending. So 2 questions:

1) How damaging is this "overbearing" comment on my MSPE? The student coordinator has confirmed with me that it cannot be removed unless I go through an appeal process.

2) Is this worth bugging my clerkship director and try to appeal it?

My final grade was a Pass (roughly 50% of students get that)

Thank you!

My first evaluation was a B- on peds. Lowest one in my 150ish person class so low it didnt appear in the anonymous published class data. Had comments about arguing with an attending and questioning my professionalism. Fast forward 2 years and I'm at my #1 residency choice at a top 5 program. No you being called a gunner doesnt matter.

 

[DarknightX]

My case - I did step on the toes of the residents. I basically wanted to be 1st assist, when it was their job. The damage is already done. I am just worried about this negative label on my MSPE. Do you think it will raise a red flag when interviewers review it?

Really poor judgement on your part. The residents take care of the patients, answer pages, write the notes, and take call. Getting to scrub cases is their reward for all the scut they have to do. To try to take a case away from a resident shows you have a lack of self awareness and you really don’t have an understanding of how the learning process works in surgery.

Even as a resident, you don’t get to do a case just because you are scrubbing. You have to be prepared and know how to do the steps of an operation. Even then, you may not get to do very much if it is a tough case or the attending doesn’t feel like teaching. I’ve had cases as a chief and a fellow where I just retracted or even watched.

An MS3 doing anything more than closing skin is uncommon.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Really poor judgement on your part. The residents take care of the patients, answer pages, write the notes, and take call. Getting to scrub cases is their reward for all the scut they have to do. To try to take a case away from a resident shows you have a lack of self awareness and you really don’t have an understanding of how the learning process works in surgery.

Even as a resident, you don’t get to do a case just because you are scrubbing. You have to be prepared and know how to do the steps of an operation. Even then, you may not get to do very much if it is a tough case or the attending doesn’t feel like teaching. I’ve had cases as a chief and a fellow where I just retracted or even watched.

An MS3 doing anything more than closing skin is uncommon.

Is this a common thing at a teaching hospital?

This has been my only OR hand on exp for the past 2 weeks in surgery. Other than that, I have scrubbed in about 4 cases per day on regular basis, doing retraction, suctioning, and guiding the camera.

I’m afraid of not meeting expectation but apparently I have become really good at this one task.

 

[DarknightX]

Is this a common thing at a teaching hospital?

This has been my only OR hand on exp for the past 2 weeks in surgery. Other than that, I have scrubbed in about 4 cases per day on regular basis, doing retraction, suctioning, and guiding the camera.

I’m afraid of not meeting expectation but apparently I have become really good at this one task.

It’s a common thing in any hospital. If you want to perform surgery, then become a surgeon.

 

[Philosopher Jagger]

If it's still really bothering you, go to that preceptor and perhaps offer your apologies (without making excuses) and say you were happy to have that feedback. Ask them for some specific tips on how you can better improve and avoid things like this in the future. THAT would show them you really weren't just gunning for the sake of being cut throat, but rather that you weren't well calibrated right out of the gates, like others have mentioned.

 

[Donald Juan]

Yes I realize that now and I own up to it. But I can't go back in time....

So you don't think this is something I need to mention on my personal statement as a learning experience or anything?

I do own up to it. I am just asking how bad it will look on my MSPE since it means I am not a good team player.

My case - I did step on the toes of the residents. I basically wanted to be 1st assist, when it was their job. The damage is already done. I am just worried about this negative label on my MSPE. Do you think it will raise a red flag when interviewers review it?

I asked the Dean's office - and the comment for sure go on there. The Q is how damaging is it?!?! I am just so depressed that my M3 is off to a bad start.

I'm really not sure based on your posts here why the attending found you annoying.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Is this a common thing at a teaching hospital?

Yes.


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[Black Coffee 24/7]

Yep. I got super lucky on surgery and got put on a service that has a reputation for letting students be SUPER involved compared to other services - the surgeries are pretty hands-on so there was usually a need for an extra hand or two. I retracted a lot, snipped sutures, suctioned/blotted the field when needed, closed port sites and put in staples, got to use the bovie like twice, and got to cut a couple colons in half with the cutter-stapler thing. Never got to drive the camera. This was way, way beyond what most of my classmates got to do.

I'm actually doing all of these and more. I also do a few new pt consults here and there. I find everything to be very enjoyable, including the workup from the beginning, the surgery itself, and the postop F/U.

Maybe it's the inner surgeon side of me talking, but I really want to do more. The hours are tough, but I don't come home exhausted or anything.

It's going to be tough finding out what I really want to do bc I never thought that I want to do surgery.

 

[NYCdude]

You must have seriously pissed this guy off for him to write that on the MSPE. I've never heard of anyone getting a comment like this even when they did poorly. I have no idea how it will impact you though

Lmao yeah, what on earth was this guy doing, boxing out the attending to do the incision?

You went too hard, man. The only thing less desirable than a med student who clearly shows that he doesn't care is a med student that slows down patient care while obviously doing it just to look good lol.

 

[PickleRick19]

Heck, I didn't even so much as look at the med tech's instrument tray without permission when I was on surgery. It's great to want to go above and beyond, but surgery is one rotation you want to look both ways before crossing the road. Never forget, you're a med student = bottomest of the bottom of the hierarchy in the OR. Don't be overeager, and ask before you do.

Edit: just saw that you tried to talk to your coordinator already. You could try to talk to your director, but it probably wouldn't go anywhere. I would just take the comment in stride (it wasn't really completely negative, could have been much worse). Goes without saying but either way, just make sure you don't do something like that again (especially on OB/gyn. Yikes)

 

[IM-2019]

Unfortunate that it's going to go directly onto your MSPE, but honestly seems kinda fair from what you described as having happened. I would chalk it up as a learning experience and hope that no one brings it up at interviews, but be ready to respond in case someone does.

I had a similar negative comment from a single attending who I think misinterpreted my struggling clinically on a hard rotation with being careless and commented on a lack of professionalism. Fortunately, the other evals from attendings/residents mentioned specific ways to improve clinically and had no professionalism complaints, so that specific negative comment didn't make it into my clerkship summary that goes into MSPE. I still got a weaker written paragraph for that clerkship based on my weaker clinical performance on it, but my understanding of that after talking with a few faculty is that it's not really a big deal, especially since it's not my desired specialty. Overall trend on MSPE + specialty of interest seems to matter most, as long as there are no true red flags for professionalism.

 

[nimbus]

Asking to be 1st assist on your first clerkship of MS3 is bananas. Did you actually think anyone would be ok with that? If that's indicative of what you were doing then I think you actually got a really generous eval.

The job of a 3rd year in the OR is to observe, not contaminate anything, and follow instructions. If you do this, you may occasionally be invited to do more.

 

[MSTP18]

The job of a 3rd year in the OR is to observe, not contaminate anything, and follow instructions. If you do this, you may occasionally be invited to do more.

Yes, of course you might be offered the opportunity to do more - hell I worked the camera on a bunch of cases, made initial incisions, even ligated some tubes and morcellated uteri, but there's no way in hell I would have actually asked if I could be first assist.