Just met with the most discouraging counselor ever.. :(

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So she looked at my GPA (3.5) and says, ya not good at all. I tell her i know its not great but people do get in with those grades. She asks "Oh, really, to what schools?" Ouch. Then i asked her what activities to include and she told me not to include anything non medicine related (like work, leadership positions in non medical clubs). I was a bit surprised at that since i have been hearing that medical schools like well rounded individuals. She admits my EC's are great, so i ask her do you think medical schools will look less harshly on my GPA since they will see how busy and involved i was? She says nope. Medical schools only want ideal people. Who have amazing grades and my level of involvement. I came out of there feeling so depressed :(.

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Well, she is telling you the truth, at least about the GPA. Would you rather she sugar coat it?

Your GPA is low. You need to apply very broadly. And score really well on the MCAT (30+, if not mid 30s). Your ECs won't make up for your poor grades.

As for non-medical ECS - sure, list them, but med schools don't give a crap about school clubs.
 
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Her vibrator probably broke. Dont worry medical schools dont want just ideal people. Anyways what is a ideal person?
 
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So she looked at my GPA (3.5) and says, ya not good at all. I tell her i know its not great but people do get in with those grades. She asks "Oh, really, to what schools?" Ouch. Then i asked her what activities to include and she told me not to include anything non medicine related (like work, leadership positions in non medical clubs). I was a bit surprised at that since i have been hearing that medical schools like well rounded individuals. She admits my EC's are great, so i ask her do you think medical schools will look less harshly on my GPA since they will see how busy and involved i was? She says nope. Medical schools only want ideal people. Who have amazing grades and my level of involvement. I came out of there feeling so depressed :(.

Add whatever EC's you feel are your strongest. She is wrong in almost every sentence she said. Academic counselors and pre-med/pre-health advisors have a tendency to not know anything about the application process.

People do get in with 3.5's. Just apply broadly and back yourself up with all your involvement. That's all you can do. (And it usually works!)
 
Not true. They care about leadership positions and if you have spaces left, definitely put them.

I think you have a decent shot. Yes, apply early and broadly but I don't think you're out of the game.
 
Westwood Hills? As in UCLA? If you are a Californian, your GPA is going to hurt you more than it would in, say, Louisiana...no offense to the other LA.
 
She sounds particularly uninformed. Your GPA is below average, but not terribly low. Just have good EC's, LORs, and MCAT scores (wow that rhymes) to balance things out. The more concerned you are about NOT getting in, the broader you should apply.

-senior medical student / admissions committee interviewer

P.S. I too had an advisor tell me in similar words that I was not medical school material. The story ends with me getting offered the first interview date at my number one choice and being offered a seat 7 days later, and eventually being a very competitive candidate for residency. Hang in there.
 
I had below a 3.5 and was informed I wouldn't get into a school either. So, instead, I got into three. A Great MCAT and great ECs helped though. I also never volunteered a day in my life.

Pre med advisors are useless when it comes to your chances.
 
P.S. I too had an advisor tell me in similar words that I was not medical school material. The story ends with me getting offered the first interview date at my number one choice and being offered a seat 7 days later, and eventually being a very competitive candidate for residency. Hang in there.

I love stories like that--it just proves you've got to want it.

To the OP...no one can discount the importance of GPA but a 3.5 is not a horrible GPA. Pre-meds just hold themselves to exceptionally high standards. I met a freshmen Wednesday who was freaking out about having a 4.0 because she thought it was required to get accepted. When I told her the average GPA at our school's COM was a 3.6 she was shocked, lol. :laugh:
 
Pre-med advisors are known to be phucking idiots. Don't listen to then. Just come here and ditch the "advising office".
 
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So she looked at my GPA (3.5) and says, ya not good at all. I tell her i know its not great but people do get in with those grades. She asks "Oh, really, to what schools?" Ouch. Then i asked her what activities to include and she told me not to include anything non medicine related (like work, leadership positions in non medical clubs). I was a bit surprised at that since i have been hearing that medical schools like well rounded individuals. She admits my EC's are great, so i ask her do you think medical schools will look less harshly on my GPA since they will see how busy and involved i was? She says nope. Medical schools only want ideal people. Who have amazing grades and my level of involvement. I came out of there feeling so depressed :(.

Knowing how to utilize a pre-med counselor can be tricky business, in part because some of them are utterly useless. However, if they are involved in preparing your committee letter, then you still want to have a good relationship with them. But when it comes to advice or your chances of getting into medical school, take what they have to say with a pound of salt.

I'm not saying you're a shoe in. But I don't understand the hard nosed you're hopeless approach. Straightforward and condescending/discouraging are not the same thing but get confused by some counselors.

You're 3.5 GPA IS going to hurt you, but you're smart and you already knew that. No need to dwell on it now. I think that if you're serious about getting into med school, don't listen to anybody who doesn't really know you about how you're not going to do it. Just do it. Get around the obstacle by learning from the mistakes you made. Hopefully your transcript shows that you did. And apply to schools that you have a realistic chance at. Maybe a mix of DO and MD, if you're okay with both routes. Check MDapps and you'll probably find 3.5's getting into medical school. You may be in a tough spot, but there is a way to get to where you want to be. You may need extra time, or you may need to apply a second time after improving your app if the first round doesn't go well. You need to show adcoms that you are a better person for the experiences that you've had, even though you may have had a bad run. Start acing your classes, ace the MCAT and find somewhere within yourself some sincere confidence and go for it.
 
So she looked at my GPA (3.5) and says, ya not good at all. I tell her i know its not great but people do get in with those grades. She asks "Oh, really, to what schools?" Ouch. Then i asked her what activities to include and she told me not to include anything non medicine related (like work, leadership positions in non medical clubs). I was a bit surprised at that since i have been hearing that medical schools like well rounded individuals. She admits my EC's are great, so i ask her do you think medical schools will look less harshly on my GPA since they will see how busy and involved i was? She says nope. Medical schools only want ideal people. Who have amazing grades and my level of involvement. I came out of there feeling so depressed :(.

You should have directed her to a copy of a book she's obviously never opened called the MSAR. Most schools have 10th - 90th percentile ranges of 3.4 - 4.0, and many have lower than that. Also, the 10th percentile is not the 1st percentile, so applicants with GPAs lower than the range shown in the MSAR do get into those schools.
 
So she looked at my GPA (3.5) and says, ya not good at all. I tell her i know its not great but people do get in with those grades. She asks "Oh, really, to what schools?" Ouch. Then i asked her what activities to include and she told me not to include anything non medicine related (like work, leadership positions in non medical clubs). I was a bit surprised at that since i have been hearing that medical schools like well rounded individuals. She admits my EC's are great, so i ask her do you think medical schools will look less harshly on my GPA since they will see how busy and involved i was? She says nope. Medical schools only want ideal people. Who have amazing grades and my level of involvement. I came out of there feeling so depressed :(.

This sentence is painful to read. My strongest ECs, particularly in leadership, are non-medical. If you leave non-medical experiences out, 90% of applicants are virtually interchangeable in terms of ECs. Leadership in particular is so important, I have been asked about it on multiple interviews, so make sure it's represented on your application. Also, my science GPA is below 3.5 and I got 10 interviews. As others have said, grades are important but don't go jump off a bridge. I think your counselor might also be trying to temper expectations to make sure you work your ass off and make your application the best it can possibly be. I can see overly optimistic counselors getting burned.
 
While you shouldn't be discouraged by what your counselor has said, you do need to fully realize that your GPA does have the potential to make medical school admissions more challenging for you. In order to overcome it, you will need to put more focus into finding schools that are genuinely good matches for you, and into writing your essays, hunting out LOR writers, and studying for the MCAT than some of your colleagues will.

As long as you keep that in mind during the process, you still have a chance.

PS - include your non-medical ECs. When I matriculated here and ran into all of my interviewers again, they almost unanimously mentioned that the things they remembered about me were the ones that had nothing to do with medicine. Your ECs will make you more than just a set of numbers at many schools...and in your case, that's a good thing.
 
So she looked at my GPA (3.5) and says, ya not good at all. I tell her i know its not great but people do get in with those grades. She asks "Oh, really, to what schools?" Ouch. Then i asked her what activities to include and she told me not to include anything non medicine related (like work, leadership positions in non medical clubs). I was a bit surprised at that since i have been hearing that medical schools like well rounded individuals. She admits my EC's are great, so i ask her do you think medical schools will look less harshly on my GPA since they will see how busy and involved i was? She says nope. Medical schools only want ideal people. Who have amazing grades and my level of involvement. I came out of there feeling so depressed :(.

Take her advice with a grain of salt. That doesn't mean you should be overly optimistic with a GPA that is below average for med school admissions, but you're still competitive. It's better to have a 3.5 and great EC's and LOR's than to have a 4.0 and weak LOR's and EC's. Your MCAT will make a huge difference in your chances. A 3.9-4.0 student can often get away with a lower MCAT than someone with an average GPA.

As everyone else said, apply broadly. Make sure your personal statement is fantastic, too. That really does make a huge difference. I do research with a student with a great GPA and MCAT (3.85, 36) from Vanderbilt, a well-respected school, who only got one interview and is in a Master's program at my school. He asked every med school was he needed to improve, and everyone who responded said his PS was cliche and uninspired. He admits that he didn't put as much thought into it as he should have. He just reapplied with a 4.0 last fall, and a PS that took him months to write, and he's already been accepted to 2/5 schools that offered him interviews, and he has six more interviews scheduled.

It's definitely a numbers game, but it's not just a numbers game. If you do well on the MCAT and everything else is great, your chances are better than your adviser thinks. Good luck!
 
I had below a 3.5 and was informed I wouldn't get into a school either. So, instead, I got into three. A Great MCAT and great ECs helped though. I also never volunteered a day in my life.

Pre med advisors are useless when it comes to your chances.

Out of curiosity, what kinds of ECs did you have? I keep hearing all this "volunteering is an unwritten requirement" crap. Did you do research instead?
 
Mackey, I kinda wanna see your stats/ECs now.
 
Your advisor is right in some ways.

GPA is low.

But the package, she doesnt understand.

Just like one of my advisors didnt.

Take the right advice, and improve your GPA:)
 
If you can bump up your GPA by 0.1 and apply broadly, you will be in a really good shape with your good ECs.
 
So she looked at my GPA (3.5) and says, ya not good at all. I tell her i know its not great but people do get in with those grades. She asks "Oh, really, to what schools?" Ouch. Then i asked her what activities to include and she told me not to include anything non medicine related (like work, leadership positions in non medical clubs). I was a bit surprised at that since i have been hearing that medical schools like well rounded individuals. She admits my EC's are great, so i ask her do you think medical schools will look less harshly on my GPA since they will see how busy and involved i was? She says nope. Medical schools only want ideal people. Who have amazing grades and my level of involvement. I came out of there feeling so depressed :(.

This was the same bull**** I heard when I went to talk to my dean at the end on my sophomore year. I had a much lower GPA then you and the dean was a complete jerk to me. I finished out my BS at that school and did a post-bac. My GPA when I applied still wasn't even close to a 3.5. Hell, my science gpa was somewhere between 3.0 and 3.1. I got 4 interviews and 3 acceptances. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't get into medical school. With a 3.5, good EC's and a decent mcat you would be much better off numbers wise then I was.
 
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^ Posts like this aren't useful unless you can provide us w/ a background of MCAT, GPA, EC's.
 
^ Posts like this aren't useful unless you can provide us w/ a background of MCAT, GPA, EC's.


I PM'd the OP with more info. I am assuming he is the one that needs the background. Honestly though, I think the info I gave was enough. If it'll help someone else I can give a little more. For EC's I did research while I was in the post-bac and I volunteered in the ED and at a rehab. I got mid 30's on the MCAT. My gpa's were both between a 3.0 and a 3.3 with a very strong upward trend. Anything else needed to make the post helpful in your opinion?
 
See, you had a post-bacc. I don't expect anybody fresh out of college with a 3.1 sGPA to get accepted.
 
Seriously, SDN trumps any advisor any day. The only reason you should see your advisor regularly is because they will eventually write your Committee Letter, which is very important.... so keep seeing your advisor despite how bad they may be, facetime is important.

But yes, SDN really is better/faster/more comprehensive/unbiased, it's got it all!:D
 
A 3.5 is far from a hope killer, but maybe it's a touch below average. However it's not a 3.2, and can much more easily be made up for with a solid MCAT and some interesting ECs. Your advisor's an idiot for telling you not to include non-medical ECs. The people who do the initial screening of applications and those who interview read a lot of applications, and every last one has medicine-related ECs. It's nice to see something different, to show some interests outside of medicine, which everyone should have. So the key for you is to understand that your GPA puts you a a slight disadvantage, but you're far from behind the 8 ball. Give yourself the best opportunities by doing well on the MCAT and filling out those EC boxes with meaningful, dedicated activities.
 
Crack the MCAT ( above 30), and bring your GPA up a tad, .15 get some good lOR and write a killer PS. if you do those things you will be in it to win it. GOOD LUCK
 
i have a GPA lower than you. i had a decent MCAT and got into multiple school. my premed advisor also told me i would never get in anywhere. seriously, don't worry about what people say. just try your hardest on your MCAT and apply broadly.
 
She is probably taking her anger out on you because she failed to succeed and make it through to med school....that would be the most logical line of reasoning as far as I'm concerned
 
OP, you have to have EXTREMELY THICK skin to get into medical school. I'm not even telling my family what I intend to do because I know they won't support me. Fellow pre-meds will intimidate you, some intentionally, most not. Pre-med advisors will be as conservative with their advice as possible because they HATE to be wrong.

You can't let anyone or anything psych you out. If you want to get into med school you have to bulldoze through the noise.
 
I have also heard that some schools' premed counselors will purposefully discourage people from applying. Schools want to be able to say that they have a high med school acceptance rate from their university. To that end, they will only assist the best applicants as students who apply on their own (without the help of the premed office) won't be counted in their statistics.
 
I agree with those who say the counselor is incorrect about ECs. I am a chemistry teacher at a medical prep school and of course I'll be putting that on my app. However, I am also an Olympian. I'd be an idiot to leave that off. I think you'll be fine. 3.5 is lower than average but it's not like you're flunking out for god's sake. There are plenty of places that would strongly consider you as long as your MCAT score is good.
 
So she looked at my GPA (3.5) and says, ya not good at all. I tell her i know its not great but people do get in with those grades. She asks "Oh, really, to what schools?" Ouch. Then i asked her what activities to include and she told me not to include anything non medicine related (like work, leadership positions in non medical clubs). I was a bit surprised at that since i have been hearing that medical schools like well rounded individuals. She admits my EC's are great, so i ask her do you think medical schools will look less harshly on my GPA since they will see how busy and involved i was? She says nope. Medical schools only want ideal people. Who have amazing grades and my level of involvement. I came out of there feeling so depressed :(.

1. Take all advice with a grain of salt, both from your premed advisor and from SDN. However, SDN can become one of your best resources.

2. Your GPA should be improved. It's not bad, and it's definitely not a death sentence. But do your best to bring it up. Also, when it comes time to take the MCAT, break a 30+, and your numbers will be fine.

3. When it comes to applying to medical schools, leadership, compassion, and drive from both medical and non-medical extracurricular settings are highly valued. My impression is that schools like to see your involvement in activities that demonstrate commitment. Of course, you do need to have medically-related experience, but other activities do show well-roundedness and other qualities valued in aspiring physicians.

4. Last, but not least, an "ideal person"...? Hearing your advisor say that should have given you serious reason to question his or her opinion on anything. Seriously.

Overall, do not be discouraged. You will be just fine!
 
i have a GPA lower than you. i had a decent MCAT and got into multiple school. my premed advisor also told me i would never get in anywhere.

Same here. Way lower. 5/5 on interviews, not including those I turned down because I'd already gotten a yes from my #1. Mine told me I had to be 'realistic at some point'.

Advisors exist to try to keep down the number of pre-meds the school produces. I really wish I was still in school to be able to go back, sit my advisor down, and have this convo.

A: So, 'd-lo, have you thought about my advice on pharm & PA school? About coming to terms with -reality-?
(Whip out my acceptance letters)
Me: F*ck you.
A: Oh! how wonder- wait, excuse me?
Me: You heard me, F*ck you. That's what brings me in today, just had to throw it out there. F*ckkkkkk youuuuuu. Dang that feels good. Welp, I think we're done here, have a good one!
 
I agree with all the sentiments that your pre-med advisor is a *****. I also applied broadly bc I had a 3.6 which I was told was "low" and got interviews at 14/23 schools. Granted, a solid MCAT score was really helpful, but my medical ECs were a bit lacking also

1. Nail the MCAT. Much more important than trying to bring up the GPA at this point. Do what you have to do, study, classes, etc. An MCAT above the schools you're applying to's average will offset a lower GPA

2. Try to get your best grades in these last semesters. Even if it won't boost your GPA much at this point in the game, an upward trend always looks good.

3. Make sure you have good ECs (including non-medical! definitely include your leadership experiences on your AMCAS! your advisor is an idiot). My medical ECs were nothing special but I had good research, and lots of musical and sports that showed I was well rounded. Also very important for you, they need to see why they want you at their school in spite of a "low" GPA
 
Same here. Way lower. 5/5 on interviews, not including those I turned down because I'd already gotten a yes from my #1. Mine told me I had to be 'realistic at some point'.

Advisors exist to try to keep down the number of pre-meds the school produces. I really wish I was still in school to be able to go back, sit my advisor down, and have this convo.

A: So, 'd-lo, have you thought about my advice on pharm & PA school? About coming to terms with -reality-?
(Whip out my acceptance letters)
Me: F*ck you.
A: Oh! how wonder- wait, excuse me?
Me: You heard me, F*ck you. That's what brings me in today, just had to throw it out there. F*ckkkkkk youuuuuu. Dang that feels good. Welp, I think we're done here, have a good one!

Good for you. Always feels great to shut the naysayers up. While I might not reccommend having this meeting, perhaps an email to the advisor telling him not to write off people so quickly is in order, with some included facerubbing.
 
I have also heard that some schools' premed counselors will purposefully discourage people from applying. Schools want to be able to say that they have a high med school acceptance rate from their university. To that end, they will only assist the best applicants as students who apply on their own (without the help of the premed office) won't be counted in their statistics.

This.

I think it's a combination of most not knowing what they're talking about and also trying to keep the acceptance rate high based on their limited knowledge. They rather say that X number of students attended Harvard etc. rather than No Name State (at least this is the case at my school). They are notorious for trying to convince people to do post-bacs or take a "couple years off". They told one of my best friends he had no chance in hell and needed an SMP or post-bac and he got accepted at 4 schools and eventually stopped going on the rest of his interviews. However, what we learned at my school is if you just flip em the bird like amakhosidlo suggested despite whatever they tell you...they will go out of their way to help you get in. They didn't want us messing up their numbers. I wish I had found SDN sooner as well...but you have to learn how to use it wisely. I was extremely neurotic during the beginning of the application cycle but there is a LOT of good advice on here (and a lot of stuff you should just ignore).
 
She is right...I had a 3.5 and did not get into one school, I got into 5 schools. As long as you have 3.5 or above and have great ECs and have a 30+ MCAT and apply early you should be ok.
 
See, you had a post-bacc. I don't expect anybody fresh out of college with a 3.1 sGPA to get accepted.

That's not true. I have a 3.4 cum gpa and 3.1 sGPA. I applied to 12 schools, received secondaries from all n completed 10. I received interviews from 5 of those. I attended 3, and now have 2 acceptances. Keep ur head up, write great essays and don't let anyone tell u what u can't do.
 
To OP

Another 3.4 cum, 3.1 sgpa here, and I have 3 acceptances, 3 waitlists so far. Yes, your adviser is wrong, but it is important that you don't act bitter towards her. REMEMBER she has to write you a rec (i'm guessing), so do your best to impress and befriend her from here on out
 
See, you had a post-bacc. I don't expect anybody fresh out of college with a 3.1 sGPA to get accepted.


True, but I didn't have a 3.1 sGPA coming out of undergrad it was much worse. I raised it to just below a 3.1 after post-bac! The whole point was that this advisor is dead wrong since I got in to multiple schools with a lower cGPA and sGPA than the OP. I can't see how the post-bac changes anything, no school is going to pass up someone with a much better gpa for someone with a lower gpa just because they did a post-bac.
 
4. Last, but not least, an "ideal person"...? Hearing your advisor say that should have given you serious reason to question his or her opinion on anything. Seriously.

Seriously. I find my classmates to be quite imperfect. Almost.... human...
 
True, but I didn't have a 3.1 sGPA coming out of undergrad it was much worse. I raised it to just below a 3.1 after post-bac! The whole point was that this advisor is dead wrong since I got in to multiple schools with a lower cGPA and sGPA than the OP. I can't see how the post-bac changes anything, no school is going to pass up someone with a much better gpa for someone with a lower gpa just because they did a post-bac.

What made the difference then? Super high MCAT I assume? or did you go to a top 10-15 undergrad school? Really good ECs?
 
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